BS: Has anyone noticed....UK

Subject: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,James
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 05:31 PM

Our shops and restaurants and cafes are being staffed by the Polish. They don't smile, they can't speak or understand English and wear name badges with an English name on it. Is it really so, that we have no unemployed people that can fill these vacancies? Are the numbers of british unemployed going up and the vacancies being filled by seasonal workers from Poland? What's gonna happen when the Turks come over next year? Shouldn't those who have been unemployed and claiming benefit for over 6 months be forced to take these jobs? Does anyone care?

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,crazyhorse
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 05:41 PM

It's called the EU James. They have a right to work in the UK, it seems that (according to NI figures) over 700,000 have come in the last couple of years, now most of them must be doing something usefull eh?

They will, in time, learn English and maybe we'll grow to love beetroot who knows.

I myself have taken the opportunity to work in Holland, Belgium & Germany, it's amazing what you learn.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 05:48 PM

Doesn't bother me - I'd rather be served by an intelligent and keen Polish waiter/barman than some gurning 'couldn't give a toss' local.
One of the reasons they do the jobs is because the minimum wage seems good to them, despite the crap hours. Without them our service industries would collapse (not to mention the fruit and veg industry)

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:04 PM

Sounds like the same sort of complaining I've been hearing in Canada since the 1970s. The country has not been destroyed in the process. ;-) One thing has happened, though. The city of Toronto has become transformed into what seems more and more like a multi-cultural community of Third World peoples...Asian, Caribbean, and African, along with the earlier strong communities of Italians, Portuguese, Greek, Jewish and all the other European cultural groups and nationalities. It was basically an Anglo stronghold when I was a kid. Those days are gone forever...except at the level of the very rich.

So now you have Toronto: a big international city. And you have the rest of the province of Ontario: basically the Anglo community that used to dominate Toronto. Two very different worlds.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:19 PM

The value of immigrants in the restaurant business is a fact of life all over the world. To stick to the UK, immigrants were serving up good food many years ago. I remember my first sojourn in the UK, some 50 years ago. In one major city I remember a place run by Cooks Islanders, with help (students) speaking a variety of languages, that had good continental cooking. Also found decent Chinese, East Indian and Lebanese food. A place run by locals I had the misfortune to visit served me inedible dried-out ('roast') chicken with soggy oatmeal which, seemingly, had been the stuffing.

Turkish cuisine can be quite interesting. I would look forward to it!

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,james
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:19 PM

might it be that the government want those who don't want to work here, to move to spain, and get the Polish to do manual tasks and only keep the brainy brits here.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:24 PM

The standard of service in Spain is light years in front of that in GB.

And my take on this for what it is worth is that is a very metro-centric view of the world. And it used to be Australians that filled the bar jobs in London.

Otherwise it is a result of the EC.

Live with it.........or campaign against it...........but watch the economy collapse if you do............

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:29 PM

I have a plumber friend on the South Coast. He used to be self employed but the Polish plumbers coming into England and working for next to nothing have more or less put him out of business.

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:34 PM

Not here, LH. Here, we have ******s who can't speak a word of English or French (against the immigration laws) paying $2.2M (can you say governement sponsorship?) for a commercial property that was built up over MANY years of hard labour under lease by couple of local people whose families have been scratching a living out of this area for over seven generations.

Call me racist. Go ahead. I call it unfair.

"The country has not been destoyed."

Maybe not, But these people were. And, they are not the only ones. They ain't rich. And, they will never be as rich as the the ones that bought them out of their life's work.

Call me racist. Go ahead. I call it unfair.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 07:12 PM

I don't call anyone "racist" in a discussion like this, gnu. I normally assume that other people have some understandable reasons for feeling the way they do, and I figure if I listen carefully I'll find out what their reasons are.

For the same reason, I don't call people "sexist" in a discussion.

It's like punching someone in the nose to use such words.

I think that there have been both good and bad things about how immigration has affected Canada. I've seen much that is good about it, and I've seen privileges abused as well. Sometimes people will take outrageous advantage of a bureacratic setup, and they get away with it. No one likes to witness that.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 07:26 PM

The Turks have been in Germany for decades, in large numbers. Country's completely destroyed.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 07:56 PM

Well, in my part of the US, it's Mexicans. But you know what? I don't WANT to work my butt of in sugar beet fields all day in 100 + degree weather thinning sugar beets, then when the job is over, crawl in the truck and travel on. I garumdamntee you that migrant workers don't make even minimum wage.

There are LOTS of things wrong with LOTS of immigration systems, and I can't begin to go into them here.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: redsnapper
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:04 PM

Germany's economy has been rocked by the process of unification, not by the Turkish community there. And the UK is, in my opinion, enriched by the presence of hardworking people like the Poles. The British can also move freely around the EU to work, but few do (I have and have benefited from the experience).

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,James
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:04 PM

Aren't the Turks muslims? Does that worry anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: redsnapper
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:11 PM

Not particularly, why should it? Turkey is a secular Muslim state by the way.

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:57 PM

Ha! I'll tell you what worries me, James...I was working in a small computer company in the early 70s, and one of my co-workers was a recent immigrant from Warsaw, Poland. She was smart, capable, attractive, and a good worker. But she hated frogs. I found this out because I had a stuffed Kermit the Frog figure who was the company mascot. I used to take him around on coffee breaks on stuff like that, so he could check up and see how everyone was doing.

"Get him away from me!" she said, glaring at the frog.

"Why? What's the problem?" I asked, very puzzled.

"I hate frogs!" she said emphatically.

"You can't mean that," I replied. "Nobody hates frogs. Especially, nobody hates Kermit."

"I do," she snapped.

I soon found out that she hated not only frogs, but almost ALL animals, except possibly dogs. I found that very worrisome.

On that basis of that, I have decided never again to trust anyone from Poland! They hate animals. ;-)

*****

Note: The above story is 100% true...except for the last little part. I have NOT decided never again to trust anyone from Poland. That part is a joke, okay? That's why I put the smiley after it.

I have no idea why she hated most animals, but she was fine aside from that one peculiar characteristic. I think maybe she had spent too much time in the city or something...

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:32 PM

Typo: Make that "the early 80s", not the early 70s. There were no computer companies in Toronto in the early 70s. At least none that I can recall. There were a whole slew of them by around '83-84, which is when I had that job.

Kermit is still with me, by the way. I found him in the vacant building when the company was starting up, and I've had him ever since.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:04 PM

well call me old fashioned if you will, but I think young English lads could do worse than shag a Polish lady. they are all extremely beautiful (with those high slavic cheekbones like Nureyev). And I think the Polish blokes should attempt to screw as many English broads as possible.

This would improve the bloodline no end. And its the way things have always been. The Romans, the saxons, The Normans, the GI's(in the last war) - now its the Polish. Good luck to our gallant Polish allies!

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 11:27 PM

Australian Cusine is considered one of the most Metro/Cosmo in the world - we have probably more different ethnic originating groups than anyone else - and their foods to match. Now we have blending of many such styles.

Yum!

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 12:02 AM

Foolestroupe, I would bet that it is excellent. Here in Canada we have much the same; cities have almost every cuisine, and a number of restaurants have the chefs who are into 'fusion,' blending, as you say, not only styles but ingredients that seldom have been associated before. I haven't dipped into Ethiopian and and there are others I haven't tried yet, but I know I won't be disappointed.
Of course the old cuisines aren't ignored either, it's hard to beat prime Alberta beef cooked extra rare and just seared ('blue' as it is called here) and served with Yukon Gold potatoes and a bottle of Chateauneuf du pape.

Selections in the food stores have increased accordingly.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 12:43 AM

Yes, and yet my town of Orillia STILL lacks a genuinely fine Chinese restaurant! Oh, it has any number of mediocre ones that serve the standard Chinese-Canadian fare...

There was one genuinely fine Chinese restaurant here for about a year. It had REAL Chinese food. Boy, was it good. Its owners could not make a living in Orillia.

That was because only I and about 5 other people in this town would eat there! (sigh) You see, they didn't have "chicken balls" and egg rolls and stuff like that on the menu. You know, the stuff they have everywhere else?

We don't have a Thai restaurant here either.

This darned town definitely needs more immigrants.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: suzi
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 02:16 AM

Yeah James ... It worries me. They will take over the world one day,

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,another frightened xenophobe
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 02:46 AM

yeah, absolutely right GUEST,James..

don't it just worry the shite outta you
that there are far more sneaky foreigners on this planet..
way.. way.. outnumbering us true Brits !!!!!



..and all of 'em just waiting to pounce on our precious dead-end skivvy jobs..

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 02:58 AM

That was a great trawl through the muddy waters, GUEST, James. Introducing two of your phobias, I mean: The influx of Poles/East Europeans in the UK and fear of Islam, all in one thread. What is the next one, I wonder - gays? socialists? left-handed banjo players? Anyway, you caught lots of willing takers of the bait.

I have lived here for almost 19 years, my wife is English, my children have dual nationality. Yet I never applied for UK citizenship. Ask yourself why not. The true answer would give you quite a clue.

Alternatively, go home. Lock the door. Purify the water, get your news from the TV. Less aggro, you'd be doing yourself a favour.

And the rest of us too.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 04:15 AM

I think that should remind everyone that the presence of Poles in the UK is nothing new. Lots of Poles arrived here during and after the 2nd World War. In my class at school, in Eastern England, in the 50s and 60s, loads of kids had Polish surnames.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 04:43 AM

In answer to the original question, no I can't say that it worries me if Poles, or extraterrestrials for that matter, are working in the local shops. I worry about a lot of things about the way the country is going, but that isn't one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Bonzo 3 legs
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 06:58 AM

Rather the educated Polish waiter/waitress than sloppy English young thing who can barely speak English!

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Crystal
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 07:59 AM

One of my best friends has polish grandparents who came over here after WWII, they wanted to integrate so chose an english surname (Which she jokes is actually Scottish!). My friend is English to the core, with a good degree in History and English, a journalism qualification and a large amount of modeling work, on which she pays a lot of tax! Who says integration can't work?

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: JennyO
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 08:28 AM

What worries me is that many here are having a friendly chat with what I consider to be a troll. George, I agree with you totally.

I consider myself lucky to live in Sydney, a very multicultural city with a huge range of interesting cultures and food. My suburb is a good example. Although it is only a small shopping centre, a stroll through many of the interesting food shops is a fascinating culinary experience. I like having my horizons broadened!

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 08:59 AM

It is extemely worrying. I mean - all these wops, dagos, spics and spades working all the hours possible at rates that us good English lads wouldn't get out of bed for. They are taking all these jobs that no one else wants. They have to pay for accomodation and food, like us. They have to live, like us. Yet they manage to do it and still send spare money back home to wogga-wogga land and krapnicski. Makes my blood boil. What's wrong with going down the dole like the rest of us and pissing it up the wall while talking total bollocks down the swastika and crown? Shows us up no end. Send 'em all back...

Cheers

:Dave Polshaw (ex Polakow)

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 09:08 AM

LOL
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: goatfell
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 09:13 AM

my sister noticed this as well, I have Polish Cousins so I can't really say anything on the matter,

Eric Bogle learnt the power of song when he wrote this, it is about these nutters BNP and the like that rant and rave about Europe and the immagrants that are working over here and yet they go for Indian meals or chinese meals or other world meals ie french or American or even Australian meals or buy as they say forigen clothes.

I Hate Wogs
-Eric Bogle

I'm a dicky-dye Australian guy and me name is Blooey Schmidt.
I love this sunburned country and I'm bloody proud of it
And I love our simple way of life and the things we all hold dear
Like V.F.L. and Big Ben Pies and foamin' Tueeze beer
I love our open friendliness where a man can make good mates
In fact in all Australia there's just one thing I hate:

I hate Wogs, they live like dogs
Some eat bananas and some eat frogs
Soome wear turbans some wear clogs
All the bloody same to me 'cause I hate Wogs.

They can't speak proper English and they never seem to learn
And the awful guff that they call food would make your stomach turn
It's always dipped in garlic sauce or fried in olive oil
I've never tasted any meself, but I bet it all tastes vile!
What's wrong with good Australian food, you Slovaks and you Poles?
Good healthy stuff like pie and sauce and chips and chigger rolls

'Cause I hate Wogs, they live like dogs
Some eat bananas and some eat frogs
Soome wear turbans some wear clogs
All the bloody same to me 'cause I hate Wogs.

And the local chip shop down the street is run by a bloody Greek
He's open sixteen hours a day and seven days a week
And every cent that you spend there on a pie or on dumsim
Helps to send back home to Greece for a bastard just like him!
Oh, I never eat there meself 'cause I couldn't touch Wog meat
I usually eat at the Chinese caf' that's just across the street!

'Cause I hate Wogs, they live like dogs
Some eat bananas and some eat frogs
Soome wear turbans some wear clogs
All the bloody same to me 'cause I hate Wogs.

I was queueing down at the Registry, a-pickin' up me dole
In front of me was a Yugoslav, in front of him a Pole
Behind me was a Eyetalian, behind him was a Turk
Those lazy migrant bastards do, they never bloody work!
But in spite of what the papers say, there's work for those who want to
The wife and twenty-seven kids is all the work I'm going to!

'Cause I hate Wogs, they live like dogs
Some eat bananas and some eat frogs
Soome wear turbans some wear clogs
All the bloody same to me 'cause I hate Wogs.

So send the bastards home to Spain, and Italy and Greece
And maybe when they've all gone home, we'll get some bloody peace
To sit in the shade of the killabar tree and drink beer all day long
And run amok with a flat-bed truck, down by the billabong
And every night at twelve o'clock to show that we're not slaggards
We'll stand and sing our national song, "Advance Australia", backwards!

He doesn't sing this song anymore I wonder why.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Fudged
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 09:26 AM

I'm sure EB had his tongue firmly placed in his cheek when he wrote that one - but it's true, he'd never get away with performing it in case someone took it seriously.
I agree with those who talk about the advantages of a multicultural society and that many immigrants are taking up jobs few of us would touch (to be fair, though, there's also the argument that it helps keep wages low).
Personally, I'd welcome as many as want to come here. In Scotland we have a dwindling population and bags of room. I have four kids and an English wife, so I reckon I've done my share :) - so let 'em come! Even the weather's better than it is down south these days :)

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 09:36 AM

I saw it taken seriously at our folk festival once by a rather inebriated young lady at a singaround where it was performed. We had to explain very slowly amdist falling about in fits of giggles. She never came back and I am not sure if she thinks Swinton Folk Club is full of raving Nazi's!

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Mr Happy
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 11:05 AM

I'm in agreement with Mr Polakow, send all immigrants to Britain back to where they came from!

But where to start? Where to finish? When the whole place is empty?

I don't know where I'd end up, having English, Irish, German, Spanish, & who knows what other mixed ancestry going back into the mists of time.

I'd like to know how to define 'native peoples' - anyone know?

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 11:43 AM

Har! Har! Har!

Dave Polshaw, thanks for the best laugh I've had yet today! Wonderful post.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 01:17 PM

If we sent back all the immigrants it might make the sheep a bit nervous.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 01:43 PM

It's even worse than that in Texas...

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: folk1e
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 04:12 PM

I feel sorry for these guys ...... they come over here, work for a pittance and when they have saved enough for a nice house back in Poland they get back there to find that everyone else had the same idea and the shortage of housing has led to hyper inflation! Their only way out will be to come back here for another couple of years (but they will not be able to afford to work for the minimum wage then) until they have the dosh in the bank. Then when they get back to Poland they find .......

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Wolfy
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 04:18 PM

well so i have read all the comments from all the euro sympathisers and all the dark insidious creatures that want to sell my country,England, to this thing called Europe.

Very soon now we will rise up and proclaim England an independent nation. There will be sedition in Europe. We will declare war again on the frogs and the creepy spanish and woop there greasy butts like we have done through the centuries.

And.... all the Euro sympathisers will be put to the sword

Power to the People      ENGLISH PEOPLE!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Penny S.
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 04:50 PM

There's another side to this.

Where I live there's a flat now owned, without notifying the head landlord, which I as secretary embody, by a management company, which manages jobs and accomodation for East European women working at a local internationally owned hotel. Every few months the occupants change. It is a two bed flat and has six people in it. The nationality changes and is mixed, so that there will be Latvians sharing with Poles or Hungarians. One of the latter was looking for an alternative, very worried, a while before changeover time, but we couldn't help, and I am suspicious that this might have been connected with the discovery that a non-slave Hungarian woman was married to an English tenant next door.

It does look as though talking among themselves and with others around is restricted by these moves and arrangements. I had some trouble telling them they could pick the blackberries in the garden. And as for last year when they needed to know that the sewer had been cut by the builders next door.....

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 04:55 PM

and your point is....

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: autolycus
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 05:03 PM

I "blame" all those brilliant british employers taking on immigrants, giving them jobs.

   What aRE THR bRITish employers up to ? What kind of patriots are they?

Call me anti-racist if you want.

   And what is it with the British expats abroad? I saw on tv one couple who had lived on a Spanish costa for 30 years (count them). They were asked how much Spanish they'd learnt in 30 years.

the husband replied, "Two sentences. 'Two pints of lager, please' and 'She's paying.' "


The Poles where I work are learning English, and they all smile.

i think when a Brit. says the Poles don't learn English, maybe they mean, "If I moved abroad, I wouldn't learn the host language", like the aforementioned couple.

call me anti-racist if you like.





       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Penny S.
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 05:05 PM

That somebody, here, is exploiting these people. That they are as likely to be victims as people to be reviled and spoken about as they have been above.

I would have thought that people here could have worked that out for themselves.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,james
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 06:05 PM

they are still doing the jobs that our unemployed could be doing tho.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 06:33 PM

Call me anti-racist if you want.

Ivor, you are anti-racist.

Gosh , that feels good.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 06:46 PM

"they are still doing the jobs that our unemployed could be doing tho."

An old, tired, argument which has been done to death by the Alf Garnets of this country every time there has been a first time influx of foreign nationals previously unknown. It happened with Jewish and German refugees in the late 30s, West Indians in the 50s, Ugandan and other Asians in the 60s.......and on.....and on.

What is never brought to light is the fact that our "native" unemployed don't want the bloody jobs in the first place.

The current crop of hoody and trainers layabouts want to come to work two or three days a week, and are willing, in an eight hour shift to actually work up to maybe an hour and a half, for which they would insist on 40 hours pay at £5.28ph.

It's hard to see how we can blame the people that take up the slack, and actually put in the hard graft, for the fact that there are vacancies they can fill.

One thing is for certain. Exactly as in the past, it will all even out, and the country WILL survive.

For my money, all the aforementioned groups (and a lot of others besides) have proved a blessing and an asset to this country.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Brakn
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 06:56 PM

Gin Dobre.

They're not going to fit in here............because from what I've seen they've got manners, work hard, don't try and mug you, don't throw their pizza boxes in my garden and I don't see them being sick outside the pub every night. Also, where did they learn the English language - fancy coming over here and being able to speak better than what I does!

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,James
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 04:11 AM

So this country will survive? Call centers (who enjoys phoning them?) could be here, but they're overseas. Do we still mine our own coal? Who makes our cars? Clothes are made in China. Do we manufacture anything ourselves. Who are we fightened of when we walk down our streets?

Yeah ok, the Polish don't appear to aggressive, yet, but once they have been livng here for a while and become frustrated... One of the first things 2,500 of them did when getting to a fruit farm in Leominster was to go on strike!

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 04:21 AM

James I can't make my mind up whether you're a racist or a jingoistic chauvinist, but either way I don't like where you're coming from.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: JennyO
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 04:35 AM

I haven't liked where "James" is coming from, right from the beginning.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,James
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 04:36 AM

What about all the kids coming out of college, and students looking for holiday jobs, they can't get any because the vacancies are full.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,James
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 04:49 AM

This country will be full of brains and worker bees whilst those in between who can't or won't will be encouraged to move out. Britain is building, but not as we know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,James
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 05:13 AM

How many of you live in a rural area where jobs are thin on the ground?
How many of you have teenage kids looking for jobs?
How many of you have very little money?
How many of you are looking for work?

I'm beginning to think you guy who have posted here are very comfortable, thank you, and don't know what's going on in the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: autolycus
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 05:47 AM

Who closed down the mine and the car industries?

I'll tell tou who. The bloody Poles,that's who.

And I hate vacancies being full. That's not what vacancies are for, for cripes' sake.

or was it the Somalians?

And who relocated the call centres to India?

I'll tell you who. The Italians, who came here in a wave of pizza and washing-up liquid.

And who wiped out the British film Industry?

And what about British Agriculture/ When did you last eat a true British pineapple? I'll tell you who . The govmenen, - giverminenetnetn - the ruling load.

And what about those deeply patriotic True Brits ekeing out a living in Monaco or the Cayman Islands.

or is that the Inderman Islands?

That's where your patriotic Brits. live. Abroad. Obviously.

The Poles should do what we do and stay at home. (Shurely shome mishtake? Ed.)

Or our True Brit criminals running away to Spain so as not to live the life of Riley in one of our 5-star prisons.

I blame my parents who told me I was stupid from the word- um - go.

And, do you know what - I went and believed them.

Where DO I get all my ideas from?

Books? I should coco.

"Whereof we know nothing, we should not speak." Wittgenstein. (Bloody Pole. Probably.)






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 05:48 AM

Some of us don't scapegoat the hard working migrant worker, and we do live in the real world thanks.
It's you James who live in an unreal world.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 06:22 AM

James - Is that like Jim, but not as we know it?

Whatever. Stop taking bollocks. The real unemployment and hardship is not and never has been in rural areas. If you think so try living in Salford or Hulme or Moss Side for a few weeks. Interestingly enough in those areas Immigrant workers have always been welcome. First the Irish, then West Indians, then Asians and now East Europeans. All still living in relative harmony. If you ignore the drug related gun crime of course...

And before you ask - I have lived in both urban and rural areas as well as having lived in England and Europe. I think that the world in which I live is real enough for anyone.

Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: JennyO
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 06:30 AM

LOL, Ivor ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 07:12 AM

"what is never brought to light is the fact that our "native" unemployed don't want the bloody jobs in the first place."

Too true. When I first arrived in London, the pubs in the West End were completely staffed by Yugoslavs. It was just as the civil war was about to kick off, and they'd got out in time. There was no minimum wage at the time, and who could afford to live in London on £2.50 an hour? English people knew they were better off on the dole. So it was Yugoslavs and a smattering of Kiwis pulling pints for the theatre crowd.

I live in rural Lincolnshire. What English kid wants to get his iPod dirty pulling carrots or mucking out a pig shed? That's why the farmer up the road has hired a few Polish lads as pigmen. You should see them when they come down to the village pub - you can pick them out as the're about a foot and a half taller than the local blokes, gorgeous, and instead of wearing scruffy jeans and t-shirts, they're immaculately dressed in trousers, collared shirts and jackets. That's what it's like where they come from if you go for a night out, and it's the standard they maintain here - even just for a drink down the local. And even if you muck out pigs for a living.

Another rural phenomenon is the dining pub. One very upmarket dining pub I know has been using an eastern European catering agency to source its staff for years. See, if you're offering food at a certain level, you've got to be able to offer the standard of service that goes along with it. Well, a local kid in an English village doesn't want to learn catering as a profession, because in the UK the service industry is piss poor and not considered a real career. They're usually filling in time in the summer holidays, or until they get a "proper" job. So you can't get the standard of staff you need, because they don't even want to be trained. But in Europe, good waiting staff can make a really good living, so people train to do it. The owner of this particular place brings them over for a year, and it's part of their overall catering training. They live in specially-built accomodation in a beautiful part of Rutland, and they improve their skills and their English, while having an opportunity to see England. It's a win-win.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: JennyO
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 07:36 AM

That sounds very positive to me, Ruth. Good post!

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 07:54 AM

This site lists the Polish air force squadrons who flew out of Scotland in the second world war, they were renowned for their bravery.
The second world war wasn't won just by pipe smoking English pilot officers with silk scarves, and spaniels, or even late arriving Americans [joke], and the Poles played a very important part in the outcome.
The other thing they still talk about in some places where they were based was, as Ruth pointed out, their style, the way they were so smart, very neatly dressed, and they wore cologne too. I mean cologne wearing by men in those days was regarded as effeminate, but the local ladies loved it, and them. Many Poles married local girls, and there are still many consonant heavy surnames around Scotland today.
So I for one am grateful to these men, and welcome their countrymen and women, we owe them, and I think a debt is being repaid by welcoming these hard working kids.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Grab
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 08:07 AM

How many of you live in a rural area where jobs are thin on the ground?

If there's no jobs, go somewhere where there are. If your house is tying you down, sell it - there's no way on God's green earth that you're going to be in negative equity.

How many of you have teenage kids looking for jobs?

If your teenage kids have qualifications and skills, they'll be OK. In other words, if you valued their education and ensured they kept at it, they'll be OK. If they never did a stroke of work at school, they're in the crapper, and that's regardless of immigrants.

What about all the kids coming out of college, and students looking for holiday jobs, they can't get any because the vacancies are full.

If they're prepared to do the same work as the migrants, they can get the same jobs. Who said anyone had a right to a well-paid holiday job?

Who are we fightened of when we walk down our streets?

As far as I can tell from the Mail/Mirror/Express and its readers, people should be frightened of white, British-born kids (under 18). Me, I'm not frightened to walk down the street, but I do use increased awareness at night, mainly to avoid aggressive drunks but also to ensure potential muggers can't easily blindside me. Most aggressive drunks and muggers are white (at least most of the places I live), of British origin and somewhere between 18 and 30 in age. One thing everyone should have noticed is that aggressive drunk immigrants are a vanishingly rare breed.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 09:08 AM

Mark Addison, of Boston, Lincolnshire, has written a beautiful set of words in tribute to the Polish airmen of RAF 300 (Polish) Squadron who flew from Faldingworth Airfield, Lincolnshire, in WW2. They suffered dreadful losses, but fought with the highest courage alongside the British airmen. Their bravery was legend throughout the armed forces during the war.

In September, 2007, a memorial to these brave men will be dedicated in a service at Faldingworth church and later at the old airfield. The memorial is made of pieces of concrete from the wartime runway, and the remains of shot-down Polish-crewed Lancasters which have been recovered from France.

The song is titled 'For Those Who Will Not Know Me', and tells the story of how the men of 300 Squadron fought through Europe, came to Lincolnshire, and gave their lives in our defence. I will be singing Mark's words, with my own tune, to open the church service - it will be a proud moment for me, and it's one I await eagerly.

The people of Britain, as well as the rest of the world, have a lot to thank those Poles for. IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Blindlemonsteve
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 09:54 AM

I dont know if anyone knows this, but the Polish squadrons shot down more enemy aircraft than any other squadron of the RAF.
This is what the E.U is all about, getting people on the move and integrating, killing off stupid old values and building new stronger ones together, we are all citizens of the E.U, go out there and live where you like, but be prepared to do a crap job and learn a new language, once you have done so you will start to gain a life better than you could have ever imagined, I am British, i have been living in Valencia Spain for 3 years, some of it has been crap, but i can speak Spanish in a very broken way, my children are fluent Spanish speakers, and i cook a mean Paella, i havent learnt the finer art of Flamenco, and i doubt if i ever will. But i am running my own company with a Spanish friend, and next month we are travelling to China and Indonesia to close business deals, i would never have done that if i had stayed in my safe 9 to 5 job in England.. life is an adventure, get out there and live it, good luck to all the poles in the U.K, i hope my country make you feel like Spain has made me feel.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 10:50 AM

Nice one Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 01:44 PM

Apparently these Poles have been pissing in the water bowsers in Gloucstershire, because they don't understand how to use the toilets in the houses they are given free by the council. I know this for a fact, this bloke in a pub told me he'd heard it in another pub.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 02:03 PM

He may have heard it from James... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Brakn
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 02:58 PM

Greg, if they weren't Poles or they weren't colured and they wernt sure sure of their spellin.........they probably were Irish.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: autolycus
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 07:00 PM

Oh,Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam m m m m m m es !!

   Jaaaaaaaaaam m m m m m m m m m mes,where aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrre you?

   U-who, we over here.



   nothing.

             Pole-axed?






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,GEUST
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 07:11 PM

look on the bright side GuestJames..


..at least the recent influx of industrious Polish workers



will save you and you neo-nazi BNP chums


all the fuss and expense


of invading Poland



just to exploit the profits of their labour...................

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: autolycus
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 06:16 AM

unless GUEST James has a plan to invade England, cleverly from the inside.

   Ahhhhhhhh, so THAT's why he is presently absent. Oddly, my heart's not geting fonder. Whatever.





      Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Juim Carroll
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 04:16 AM

Right
Now we've established that 'they' are useful for cheap labour, they don't like animals, they can't be trusted, they take our jobs, they can't speak English, their women are only good for shagging...... etc. etc. - when do we invade Poland?
It's comforting to know that the KKK is still around to defend our WASPishness
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,bouncer
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 10:23 AM

i can say from personal experience that the polish and most eu countries workers are hard working with the exception of a few.
yes they will work all the hours they can thats because we brits wont do it.
my partner is polish and she has a degree in bio-technology (DNA stuff)
she came over to work in a factory to save up to move from a degree to get her masters in her choosen subject.
the only reason they come to work over here is they get paid more the wages over there are shocking.
they will do the work the spongers (dole) wont do so the spongers should go over to poland and try doing a months work over there and seeing if they can live on what a monthly wage would be over there...
i goto poland as often as i can as it is a beautiful country and everyone there is polite and try and help as i can only say a bit in polish like ordering a pint and getting a packet of cigs.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Mr Happy
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 05:12 AM

What did the Polish astro-physicist say to the Polish chemical engineer?

"You want fries with that?"

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: goatfell
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 06:48 AM

this is great thread if you are a member of the BNP and their pals don't you think.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Annabel
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 08:32 AM

This is one of the most entertaining threads i've read in ages. How long will it be before it's removed I wonder?

Anna

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 11:46 AM

Has anyone noticed that the word "Polish" (as in pertaining to people from Poland) and the word "polish" (as in polishing your shoes or your car) are spelt the same way?

The Poles shine! As such, they should be of benefit to any society.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Annabel
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 03:27 PM

BNP?

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: autolycus
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 04:39 PM

British national Party - a far right group in UK.



Perhaps you say more about why you think this thread is good for them.

James, who sounded like he came from that neck of politics seems to have disparu.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 04:46 PM

Don't allow yourself to be drawn in Ivor, our 'Guest' isn't as innocent as she seems.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 06:20 PM

Yes, I've noticed there are more Poles around these parts these days. Great.

And it's not just young people over to work for a year or so - just had a young couple with a toddler move in to live a couple of doors away. Even better.

Subject: On a different note. . .
From: GUEST,Eric Olsen
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 08:22 PM

Dear Mick,

Many years ago you replied to a post about the song "Patrick Furey" or "Farewell to the Town of Galway". I had previously picked up the melody and two verses from some old compilation but in your post you supplied a third verse.

I have looked all over the internet for background on the song or recordings of the song and have come up with. How did you come up with the entire song?

I wonder why this song is not a little more popular. It may not be the greatest song ever written but the melody and chorus are nice.

Cheers,

Eric

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 08:26 PM

Anyone noticed that the price of frog legs has gone through the roof lately?

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 09:07 PM

How about them Mets?

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Northman
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 09:22 PM

Sorry to get off track with my previous guest post. I am new to Mudcat and did know I could message someone privately.

Interesting thread. Here in the US immigration is a huge issue right now and a huge bill just did NOT go through so . . . you guessed it - status quo.

Immigration has a lot of facets as many people have already pointed out in some great posts. So let me just say the best thing to do if you are scared of immigrants working in your local cafe is vote.

HOWEVER, the second best thing to do is move to their country which probably does not have many immigrants. Then you can easily find a job in one of their cafes and several times a day you can shout "touche" at the locals to teach them a lesson.

Eric

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: autolycus
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:03 AM

thanks 'Giok', nice warning, thanks. I like my way of dealing with them, tho', so I'm ready either way

LOL, Eric.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Mr Happy
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:16 AM

'HOWEVER, the second best thing to do is move to their country which probably does not have many immigrants. Then you can easily find a job in one of their cafes and several times a day you can shout "touche" at the locals to teach them a lesson.'



An item on BBC News 24 yesterday mentioned this very thing may be already happening.

A Polish MP was talking about the influx of Chinese migrant workers into Poland & commented that they & others were welcome because of the draining away of lots of young Poles to work abroad.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:12 AM

" So let me just say the best thing to do if you are scared of immigrants working in your local cafe is vote."

For who - the BNP?

Tosser.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Brakn
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:22 AM

Eric re "Patrick Furey" or "Farewell to the Town of Galway" have PMed you back.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Northman
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:28 AM

Vote for whoever you think will push things in the direction you would like to see them go. What does party affiliation matter?

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Mr Happy
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:45 AM

More on migrant workers to Poland!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6922538.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:11 PM

Northman, your post implies that if you're "scared of immigrants working in your local cafe", the acceptable political stance to take is to vote for whatever party will get rid of them for you.

Well, I don't think that's an acceptable response, because I don't think being anti-immigration is a particularly acceptable political position. So the parties who would get rid of them are reactionary fascist tossers - as are the people who suggest that voting for them is a reasonable response.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:14 PM

Why is it that the BNP are treated with kid gloves? When they spread their vile race- hate, they are hardly ever prosecuted; when they are the case is presented so weakly that they are usually acquitted; and when they are not, they are given a mild rap on the knickles and told not to be naughty again. One bloke was stockpiling explosives and all he gets is a few months. Compare that with those silly (but Asian) schoolboys who were playing at Islamic revolutionaries, and they went down for 6 years merely for conspiracy- note that they never had anything more lethal than computer files and papers.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:24 PM

"...a mild rap on the knickles..." - and they probably rather enjoy that.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:54 PM

"Might it be that the government want (to).... only keep the brainy brits here?"

If so,they're not succeeding James, or you wouldn't be here.

Gnu, before you ask anyone to say "government sponsorship" you should learn to spell it. I can't decide whether to accept your invitation to call you racist. You would help me resolve it if you dared to confess what dreadful word is hiding behind your asterisks.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 03:52 PM

Why is it that people with a liberal stance will always want to understand why people murder, rape or violate another human being in some way, always stand up for the rights of the minority, but seem to find it hard to accept that people have genuine centre right feelings, you seem to find it hard to find a coherent argument as to why someone shouldnt say a perfectly legitimate line like "if you want change then vote for it" so just label them as tossers. Just because you have an issue with immigration, it doesnt make you a Nazi, i personally feel that Britain does have immigration issues, these are purely because its such a small island, you cant put a litre into a pint glass, this is not aimed at anyone in particular, it is just fact, the crap government that Britain has had to endure over the last ten years has created a wooly liberal under current that just condems anyone who dare speak against the wishy washy policy making that has become the norm in Westminster. I dont think for a minute that the BNP are the way forward, and i condemn them with all my heart and soul, but with such a weak government and such a bizzare tabloid press that see fit to spill utter garbage about welfare benefits etc etc without stating the fact that Poland and other Eastern European countries are part of the E.U and just look to sensationalise to the working classes and seem to fuel the rise of the BNP. i think that the only way forward is to vote for change,,,, but who on earth do we vote for.
I only wish there was still a system where the conservatives were conservative and the labour party were socialist and the Liberals were what ever they wanted to be, because it doesnt matter.

I think we need a none of the above box which would register a vote for all main parties, then they would have to work together, they would surely do anything to avoid that, and perhaps get some policies that people might actually want to vote for.
But hey, what do i care, i live in Spain, i have taken advantage of the E.U.

Thats my rant over, i will retire to a glass of Spanish Red.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 04:00 PM

Make voting compulsory, it is not right that we are governed by a party elected by less than 24% of the electorate, it's not representative.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 04:43 PM

Anyone who is "scared" by Polish people serving them in their local cafe has some serious issues, probably inspired by tabloid paranoia.

Anyone whose solution to that fear is not some attempt at understanding and tolerance but, instead, "vote for the party that will get rid of them for you" is accepting and legitimising that irrational, tabloid-fired fear.

There's only one party I can think which actively encourages people to fear and resent "the other": the BNP.

Anyone who legitimiases Daily Mail paranoia and BNP politics is a tosser. End of.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: autolycus
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:54 PM

I agree with many of your sentiments, blindlemon.

As a steely-minded liberal, i think you have a right to express your views, and our side could do worse than stick to the arguments.

blindlemon, how's your Spanish, btw?






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: HuwG
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:20 PM

"Read the bottom line on the chart please, Mr. Pasicznyk."

"Er, J, M, C, Y ... yes, I know him."

****

A true story. Two of my friends, one of whom I played rugby with, were the descendents of Eastern European immigrants (possibly DPs, Displaced Persons, who moved to Britain immediately after the war.) Both were schoolteachers. They became engaged. At the lady's school, the headmaster stood up at morning assembly and said "You will all be pleased to hear that Miss Sauznieva is getting married." They were, none more so than form 3B, whose parents had a devil of a time writing notes explaining absence or sickness.* The headmaster continued, "She is getting married to a Mr. Janikuczacz ..."

* Mind you, these parents were also the source of the joke about, "Please excuse my son's absence from school yesterday. He had disa dyary dysarr the shits."

****

Claims of floods of immigrants driving UK people out of subsidised housing and work have been around since the b****y Romans arrived. Personally, I have little regard for the UK immigration authorities, who spend endless hours harrassing genuine refugees, while failing to halt the activities of criminals such as people-smugglers, and the gang-masters of cheap illegal immigrant labourers. Their so called successes smack too much of "low-hanging fruit".

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 08:29 PM

"Anyone who is "scared" by Polish people serving them in their local cafe has some serious issues, probably inspired by tabloid paranoia."

Yep! I'll go along with that. By far the more scary prospect is some local hoody catching a glimpse of the contents of your wallet when you pay for your cuppa.

Scariest of all is the thought of the British Nazi (Oops! Sorry, that's British National) Party ever gaining any significant power.

Then I would definitely emigrate to Poland.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Northman
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 09:29 PM

Great link Mr. Happy thanks.

Dear Ruth Archer - if you look more closely you will find that I did not actually say vote for someone that would get rid of immigrants. I wrote vote for someone that thinks the same as you do. Perhaps a person that is scared of Pole's in the cafe may want to have more enforcement of current regulations or new regulations rather than stopping immigration all together. There is a huge grey area and a lot of nuance to immigration policy. My main point was simply to vote first and complain later. Voting is the simplest way to effect change but the point is to get involved. The main problem here (see the 2004 and 2000 presidential elections) is the same that several of you have already mentioned - not much to choose from. Since that is the case I am all in favor of BlindLemonSteve's "none of the above" box.

Eric

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:35 AM

Ruth, your counter points are of course right, but to state a that one newspaper is responsible is pushing it a bit far, ok, the Daily Mail is a centre right publication, but just because someone reads it, it doesnt make them a Nazi,it also doesnt make them thick, stupid or tossers. This is the core of the problem, because of the policies in Westminster over the last 10 years, if you have a centre right view, you must be a Nazi, that is as ludicrous as saying that if you read the Daily Mirror, you must be a communist.
Anyway, Autolycus, my Spanish is coming along, I understand more than i know how to speak, it doesnt sound like gobbledeegook anymore, i can hear coherent sentences, i have to think about my replies to questions, and plan what to say when i go to the shops, but i do feel that i am getting there,,, Thanks for asking.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 06:00 AM

Are you sure, Blindlemonsteve? I would have thought that "Nazis" "thick" "stupid" and "tossers" covered most Daily Mail readers?

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 06:53 AM

Exactly my point Peter, you are a victim of Blairs legacy, you are unable to take in the concept that there are people in the world with different views to yourself, its just that your argument is so weak, the only defence you have is attack and labeling people you dont agree with as thick, stupid or tossers.... try looking outside the box and you might be surprised to find intelligent people with all sorts new ideas from all walks of life.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 12:50 PM

The Daily Mail is CENTRE right?

Dunno what political spectrum you're on, chap, but to me, the Times is centre right. The Daily Mail is a nasty, intolerant piece of right-wing filth that spreads paranoia, hatred and lies.

I'm not suggesting one newspaper is responsible for all the racial intolerance in the UK. They are one propigator of hatred and fear; there are plenty of others.

I don't think only Nazis read the Daily Mail, but I feel it's responsible for turning a lot of its readers into racists.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 12:58 PM

I always get a chuckle out of hearing people use the word "tosser" to disparage someone.

It's an unknown term in North America, bringing to mind only someone who is throwing some small object, such as a baseball, perhaps.

Teribus used to call me a tosser when we would disagree about some political matter. I suppose I should have been devastated!

"No! No! Not that! Anything but that! Please, please don't call me a...a...tosser! (sob)" ;-)

Instead I always found it quite amusing.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 01:48 PM

Intelligent people read the Daily Mail? Hahahahaha! (It's the way you tell'em, Blindlemonsteve...)

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 01:50 PM

Hi Little hawk, i have a friend in New York, he loves the word "WANKER" which really means the same thing as tosser, he cracks up every time he hears it, it is his lifes work to get everyone in America to say it with a British accent.

Hi Ruth, i think it depends on your definition of Racism, it seems that the tolerance levels to such a term is varying depending on your political view. to me Britain seems obsessed with the term, and is starting to manifest in the population the desire to call anyone a racist just for acknowledging that some one is from a different ethnic background, or using the word "Black" in describing someone or something is not racist, using someones ethnic background to gain control and superiority over such a person is racist. Its like pornography really, to some people page 3 is offensive to others its just a harmless bit of fun.... it all depends on your own perception, i personally think that Britain is eating itself from within with this racial obsession. Most people are intelligent enough to live together in harmony.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 02:13 PM

"racist" "sexist" "facist" names thrown around by some people when other people disagree with them.You only have to look through the threads here at Mudcat, it's all there folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 02:28 PM

Yeah, Steve, I find "wanker" pretty amusing too, but I never heard of "tosser" until I was on Mudcat.

You said, "i personally think that Britain is eating itself from within with this racial obsession"

So do I. I think that the whole damn western world is eating itself from within with racial obsession. It's ridiculous. People should focus on their similarities, not their differences, if they wish to have a healthy psychology and good relations with one another. They should not isolate themselves into what are really just defensive tribal groupings under the illusion that this somehow elevates them or serves their "racial pride".

Here is a marvelous piece of writing on the subject that I found on a movie reviewing website:

The ethos of the film *(In the Heat of the Night), by which I mean the values it examines, are locked into the 1960s, and even earlier. I recall hitchhiking through the South (Maryland, actually) and still seeing signs at the time reading "Colored Only" over the rest rooms. And an African-American friend who took pictures of such arrangements being followed out of town by a short string of local cars and stopped for questioning. The film reflects a dangerous and hate-filled time which Southerners have finally overcome, thank God. And yet this same ethos lives on in the minds of many Southern whites and even more African-Americans, not reflected in on-the-ground behavioral reality, but in beliefs. I taught for years in a Southern mostly African-American university before I came to realize how important this myth is to blacks. To ask them, or anyone else, to give up that history of persecution is to ask them to sacrifice a solidarity that is otherwise unattainable. There is "us" and then there is "them". And "they" are the enemy which draws us together and from which we gain support and succor. There is not much segregation in the South or elsewhere (although it still exists), but there might as well be. From the point of view of African-Americans, there almost NEEDS to be. Don't human organizations need a history of persecution? The Christians have Nero, Jews have four thousand years of it, including the holocaust, Irish have the British occupation, Moslems have the hejira, Mormons have the assasination of Smith. We -- who have once been treated unjustly -- have Victim Power. You can't understand us unless you've walked a mile in our moccasins. James Baldwin and Margaret Mead once chatted and published their views in "A Rap on Race." They both agreed that we need to disregard the past (not forget it) and start anew. Of course, no one remembers the book or its message because it flies in the face of social dynamics. The hell with that, I want to feel persecuted!

There is the crux of the problem. Instead of learning from the past and moving beyond its limitations, moving on to a completely fresh understanding of shared brotherhood, people seem to prefer to wallow in the past, to recycle the hatred and blame, and to perpetuate the sense of victimhood and accusation, generation after generation.    For them issues of race become an abiding obsession that eats them up from within. They want their children to carry their pain and anger forward. This isn't a helpful attitude to pass on to children.

By the way, the above passage was taken from a very positive review of "In the Heat of the Night", a brilliant movie with Sydney Poitier, outstanding in that it does not stoop to preachy and cardboard stereotyping of racism, but shows it in both its crude and its more subtle manifestations. Both the redneck white sherriff AND the more enlightened black police officer from Philadelphia are shown to be carrying racial prejudice...but in the case of Poitier's character it is far more subtle...and even he is surprised when directly confronted with his own prejudice, his own desire to "get even", not least because it interferes with him being able to do his job as he would want to...impartially and with total objectivity. He and the southern sherrif both become wiser men and they learn to respect and even like one another by the end of the film...not as a northern black man and a southern white man, but as two flawed human beings who recognize the good points and value in one another, despite the flaws. That's something to see. It's a wonderful movie.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:38 PM

"try looking outside the box and you might be surprised to find intelligent people with all sorts new ideas from all walks of life. "

Ohhhhh....you mean the membership lists for the BNP...

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:42 PM

"Make voting compulsory"
isn't that a wee bit anti-choice?...still what DO you expect..?

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:44 PM

so peter, you in your wisdom and knowledge of this very wide and varied world have decided that you can judge peoples intellect and point of view solely on the newspaper they read.........

You must be one heck of a judge of character, please elaborate and put some meat on the bone, i have only actually seen one liners from you in this thread, sprouting sound bites probably from other people. Please enlighten us all with your wise words. The ball is in your court.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:52 PM

"they are still doing the jobs that our unemployed could be doing tho."
tho? ohhh though...ok..now....these "unemployed". Tell me, if they want the jobs so badly, why didn't they apply for them like everyone else? That's how it works, you go and fill in an application, this applies to everyone who wants the chance at a particular job. Does being a white Anlo-Saxon Protestant make you an exception to the rule..? NO!

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:56 PM

"I don't think only Nazis read the Daily Mail, but I feel it's responsible for turning a lot of its readers into racists."
now this sort of blanket statement REALLY scares me.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 04:56 PM

Little Hawk, I don't suppose that you'll be surprised to know that I take great issue with the statements made in the movie review of "In The Heat Of The Night" . Imo, the statements you quoted are flawed partly because they don't appear to take into consideration institutional racism. Secondly, the statements appear to lump all people of African American descent into one homogeneous thinking & acting group called "The blacks".

I can attest to the fact that I and Black Americans who I know don't "want to feel persecuted". I and other African Americans who I know don't "play the victims game". Yes, I'm sure that does occur among some Black people sometimes. But, to broad brush this attitude as one that all-or even most-Black Americans- have is {as I've said before} much too simplistic.

That said, I've no interest in turning the focus of this discussion from the UK to a discussion of the state of White/non-White race relations and the institutionalized inequities that are still very much in operation in the USA {in the mass media, and in the public education system, juvenile justice system, child welfare system, public welfare system, criminal justice system, health care system, housing system, employment systems, such as electrician, plumbing and other such union jobs, etc etc etc}.

And since I have no desire to post another comment about racism in the USA, and since I choose not to make any other comment about what some one who is Black, White, or Green thinks that 20 million plus Black people think, and since I don't know anything about immigrants and race/ethnic relations in the UK, I'll go back to my role as a lurker on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 06:53 PM

I anticipated that you might object, Azizi.

Of course no one consciously wants to feel persecuted. But have you not met individuals (not of any particular race, necessarily) who subconsciously wanted to feel persecuted? And why? Well, there are many reasons why.

Some people really enjoy feeling a sense of persecution, because it makes them feel righteous, it makes them feel noble and put-upon, and it gives them something to be indignant about all the time and raise hell about. It justifies their cherished beliefs about themselves and others. It reinforces their sense of identity. It confirms their mythos...the way they see themselves in history. It exonerates their anger. It gives them the right to lash out at someone. It proves that they were "right all along" about "those" people. Such a person will look around diligently for offence by someone, anyone, even if it is not being offered, and will soon think he or she has found it.

Hell, I've had (a few) relatives like that, and they're not black. ;-) They're white. I've had (the odd) neighbours like that. I've had (again, a few) co-workers like that. Such attitudes are not restricted to any particular race. Such attitudes are often based around gender or religious or class issues rather than racial issues.

You say, 'the statements appear to lump all people of African American descent into one homogeneous thinking & acting group called "The blacks".'

Ah...well, that would be a grievous error, and it is precisely the practice of people with a race-based "victim power" psychology...or a "superior race" or "master race" psychology to do that: to lump all the people of their race into one homogeneous thinking and acting group called "US". To lump all the people of some other race into one homogeneous thinking and acting group called "THEM".

That's what the man who wrote the passage I quoted is objecting to, and that's what I'm objecting to...whoever does it...black, white, Native American, female, male, Protestant, Catholic, I don't care.

You said, "I'm sure that (the victim game) does occur among some Black people sometimes."

Yes it does. It also occurs among some Native Americans sometimes. I can attest to that, because I spent much time among Native Americans for decades because of my affection for their traditions, and I got a bellyfull of witnessing the "victim game" being played by the end of it. It occurred among long-haired white youths in the years of my youth...and I got a bellyfull of that by the end too. It was the same damn victim game being played...but a different set of "victims". It's so self-serving and hypocritical. It occurs all over the place among all kinds of people who think of themselves as being (or having once been) oppressed by someone, and it can be a very nasty thing to deal with. You get blamed by association for stuff you were never even a part of when you're not one of the group.

When a person cannot look at issues dispassionately outside of the specific identity of their race, their religion, their politics or their gender...then the stage is set for a lot of unnecessary trouble and ill will.

Is prejudice alive and strong in the USA? You betcha! And it goes both ways. It's downright frightening in some parts of the USA. The only country I've been in so far where I honestly could not detect any hint of racial division between the blacks and whites I saw around me was in Cuba. The lack of any noticeable racial divide there was quite noticeable. It was one of the best things about the place.

As for Canada, things are fairly moderate here compared to the USA...but there is definitely prejudice, and there are definitely people playing both the "victim" game and the "superior race" game, whether or not they will ever admit it or even become aware of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Mr Happy
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 08:00 PM

i've just posted here x 3.

Where's my posts??

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Mr Happy
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 08:33 PM

This Seeing Eye

That Seeing Eye

Who쳌fs Seeing Eye?

The next Seeing Eye

A big red seeing eye

Is this anyone쳌fs seeing eye?

Which Seeing Eye

What Seeing Eye

Where쳌fs my seeing eye?

A bag of seeing eyes, please.

Any seeing eyes?

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 07:11 PM

So your saying the level of service is worse than that of the english,what planet are you on? Take notice of the americans if you want to know what service should be like.They can make a burger sound like a sirloin steak,our spotty herberts make us chunder before we have tasted it.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 11:31 AM

"Take notice of the americans if you want to know what service should be like"

you ARE joking, of course........?
*runs out of the room stifling an insane laugh*

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 02:42 AM

"I don't think only Nazis read the Daily Mail"
It is within living memory that Nazis owned the Daily Mail - Lord Rothermere was one of Hitler's greatest supporters. Never really shaken off that legacy as far as I'm concerned.
Nice to see this thread turned from a rather nasty racist comment into a debate on fascism - thanks for that James, wherever you are.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 02:57 AM

I suspect that facism, like fashion will rear its ugly head again and again in years to come.

Looking through the shops yesterday for a new shirt, all I could find were things that looked suspiciously like the smock tops I was wearing in the 1970's. Thankfully though, none of them were crimplene or brushed nylon.

My point?

There is nothing new in history, it is doomed to repeat itself. However... just as we now have smock tops and wedge shoes again, this time around it's slightly different and hopefully better. Just as we know that crimplene and nylon are bad for the environment (by-lines of the oil industry) and our health (hot, sweaty, non-absorbent fabrics), we know that facism is bad for us and we should look for healthier alternatives.

900 years ago, we didn't know half the world existed and were right to be afraid of what was out there. 500 years ago, we knew it was there but it was beyond the reach of ordinary man, so we still had reason to be afraid. 100 years ago, the invention of the motor car and aeroplane meant we could visit these places, understand them and learn not to be frightened any more.

Once we all learn not to be frightened of the unknown, by understanding them, then facism, Nazi-ism, racism and religion-ism will fade away into the past like so much crimplene and brushed nylon.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: stallion
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 03:47 AM

Firstly, and it has been mentioned already, a recent add for waiting staff yielded no applicants who were born in the UK (National Trust Tea room) , they were all eastern european and very hard working and reliable, this has been so for a couple of years. We do have a lot of migrant workers in the building trade but that is because there is a skill shortage, due largely to firms having to be "mean and lean", which rolls out as no budget for training people which is expensive. The fact that they are working for a lot less money concerns me only from the point that they are being ripped off, exploited, and probably because we are unwilling to engage with them and include them, bring them into the wage equation and make it more difficult to take advantage of them. We are blessed with an influx of very beautiful and wonderful folk and the Odd a**ehole, we have enough home grown ones, no shortage of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 10:33 AM

What has happened to Guest, James? I guess he has been abducted by Polish immigrants, forced to drink Wodka and eat Kalbasa while chanting 'Dien Dobre'...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 04:20 PM

why would Guest james hang about, he's done what he set out to do, got all the usual suspects riled up.....

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,JoeknowsmyIPtonight
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 01:13 AM

getting very drunk staying up to daylight watching

"Kanal" & "Ashes and Diamonds" movie double bill..

seem to do this every 10 to 15 years..


such touching sad despairing movies..



no, I don't begrudge Poles moving to my town..


how could I ????


but somehow I'd be surprised
if the eager to enrich themselves
20 somethings Polish workers living in shared houses
in my street have ever or would even want to watch
these antique black and white half century old movies
about a past anyone in their right mind would want to wish never happened..


Poles are welcome to drink in my house.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Flatpick
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 12:18 PM

I was raised as an Air force brat surrounded on both sides by Polish folks who fought alongside us in WWll and couldn't go home 'cos their country was then run by communists.
They were, and are, polite, hard-working, decent, moral, great people who don't want to suicide-bomb us, or hate us whilst taking everything we have to offer and despise us as infidels, just want a decent life and work hard.
Give us more Christian Poles who pick up English as a language in about three months, and a lot less Moslems who only know the words "political asylum" and "financial support" and cost us, I'm told, £55 million per annum in translators fees alone.
Yes, too right I'm racist.
All Moslems are not terrorists by any means, but all terrorists appear to be Moslems.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: autolycus
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 03:34 PM

At the risk of looking like we've learned nothing,
ever wondered why?

(Not that it's true, but don't want to come over all pedantic at this point in history)





       Ivor


PS Hope you do irony but , who knows?

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 05:15 PM

And your racist soundbites are different from James's racist soundbites in what way, Flatpick? You admit that you are racist as if this is a good thing. Why is that?

Dave

Who wasn't brought up surounded by Christian Poles but was brought up BY Christian Poles and learned the real value of tollerance.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Peace
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 05:20 PM

"Subject: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,James - PM
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 05:31 PM"

James, you sound like a racist arsehole to me.

Subject: Faldingworth Memorial Service - 300th squadron
From: GUEST,Mary Swirski
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 01:46 AM

Hello, Im a Canadian lady, my father (Walter Swirski), RAF pilot, met my mom while at Faldingworth. Father (and his parents) were removed from their home (at gunpoint) in Poland for being "unwanted elements" of the communist system (they belonged to the underground) and served 2 years in a Siberian prison camp. Father was released and went to England where he flew Lancaster bombers. Father has not been to England in 50 years (he & my mom emmigrated to Canada). He is coming to England on Sept 8 for a "service" for the 300th squadron at Faldingworth. Please post to this site if you or your relatives belonged to the 300th squadron and remember the bomber pilot named "Walter Swirski" - i'd like to arrange for them to meet up. Although, considering my fathers age, 84, I doubt that many of his friends are still alive. Thanks kindly, Mary.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 04:45 PM

Good luck, Mary. Hope that your Father finds some old friends. It will be a very moving experience anyway. You may, and others, may enjoy this. The story of a Polish Wellington Bomber crewe who were not so lucky - Apart from one, who's story is fascinating. I have seen the memorial and it brought a tear to my eye.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 05:04 PM

My mother was engaged to a Polish pilot stationed in town in WW2. He didn't make it back but after both of my parents died I found a beautiful inscribed photograph in her belongings. She always taught me as a child how to say "I will return to Crewe" (my home town) in Polish!

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 03:51 AM

I hope she didn't teach you it was "Mój poduszkowiec jest pełen węgorzow".

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: autolycus
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 11:04 AM

"Has anyone noticed" that flatpick seems to have followed James into the ringof enlightenment. Or summat.




       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 12:11 PM

GUEST "Mary Swirski" - will you please sign up as a member and send me a PM (Personal Message) on Mudcat, I have some news about the 300 Squadron Commemoration on 8th September which may be of interest to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 09:41 AM

Mary????.........

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: The PA
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 11:22 AM

We have a Polish lady in our company, she's now head of marketing. She (university lecturer in Poland) and her husband (extremely respected surgeon in Poland) have moved to the UK with their children because, no matter how hard they worked or the more successful they became, the more they were stamped on by the Polish government. Regardless of their status, they were still living in a grotty one bed apartment, with very little on the horizon for their children. They are both working in the UK and paying their taxes. She was recently criticised by another colleague for taking jobs from English people. He forgot to tell her that last year his son emigrated with his family to Australia for the very same resons.

I only know her story. But we have to ask ourselves in that position would we not do exactly the same??

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 03:16 AM

"All Moslems are not terrorists by any means, but all terrorists appear to be Moslems."
Only if you don't count militant animal rights groups, Irish political organisations of various persuasions, extremist 'right to life' groups, Unibombers, fundamental Zionists, fundamental Christians, residents who terrorise Travellers to the extent of firebombing their caravans, militant racists... et al. Then of course there are the state terrorists who use imprisonment without trial, torture (whoops- I meant rendition) and the slaughter of civilians (collateral damage).
Then again, there are the clandestine government agencies who have been happy to use terror tactics to destabilise and overthrow democratically elected groups in order to secure oil supplies and maintain a political influence in countries such as Chile, Greece, Argentine, Guatamala, Haiti, Cuba.....
And the beat goes on! Or did I blink when George Bush converted to Islam.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Has anyone noticed....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 04:58 AM

It's a bit of very poor reasoning, Jim. I wouldn't worry about it.
May as well say "Not all men are rapists by any means, but all rapists appear to be men." What are we supposed to deduce from it? It's just a non-sensical soundbite, probably picked up from the tabloid press.

Dave.