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BS: ADHD in Adults

Naemanson 25 Jul 07 - 07:52 PM
Naemanson 25 Jul 07 - 07:56 PM
Sorcha 25 Jul 07 - 07:59 PM
Bert 25 Jul 07 - 08:13 PM
cookster 25 Jul 07 - 08:22 PM
cookster 25 Jul 07 - 08:23 PM
GUEST,sinky 25 Jul 07 - 09:39 PM
Ebbie 25 Jul 07 - 10:06 PM
katlaughing 25 Jul 07 - 10:15 PM
InOBU 25 Jul 07 - 11:01 PM
InOBU 25 Jul 07 - 11:02 PM
The Fooles Troupe 25 Jul 07 - 11:29 PM
cookster 25 Jul 07 - 11:38 PM
Alec 26 Jul 07 - 01:18 AM
GUEST,PMB 26 Jul 07 - 04:19 AM
Naemanson 26 Jul 07 - 04:35 AM
GUEST,PMB 26 Jul 07 - 06:21 AM
Midchuck 26 Jul 07 - 07:20 AM
Folkiedave 26 Jul 07 - 07:35 AM
Naemanson 26 Jul 07 - 08:33 AM
GUEST,PMB 26 Jul 07 - 08:51 AM
Sorcha 26 Jul 07 - 09:07 AM
The Villan 26 Jul 07 - 11:24 AM
Alice 26 Jul 07 - 01:50 PM
Midchuck 26 Jul 07 - 01:55 PM
Alice 26 Jul 07 - 01:59 PM
Alice 26 Jul 07 - 02:00 PM
Barry Finn 26 Jul 07 - 05:23 PM
Janie 26 Jul 07 - 06:30 PM
Sorcha 26 Jul 07 - 06:58 PM
Janie 26 Jul 07 - 08:28 PM
Naemanson 26 Jul 07 - 09:03 PM
GUEST,Ralphy 02 Aug 07 - 04:14 PM
philgarringer 02 Aug 07 - 04:49 PM
Barry Finn 03 Aug 07 - 01:35 PM
Barry Finn 03 Aug 07 - 01:39 PM
Charley Noble 03 Aug 07 - 04:34 PM
Janie 03 Aug 07 - 05:00 PM
Naemanson 03 Aug 07 - 05:03 PM
Charley Noble 03 Aug 07 - 06:12 PM
Janie 03 Aug 07 - 07:13 PM
GUEST,Keinstein 23 Aug 07 - 10:18 AM

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Subject: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Naemanson
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 07:52 PM

I was recently diagnosed as being an adult with ADHD. I thought it might be worth a discussion on the 'Cat. First, a description of what ADHD actually is:

ADULT ATTENTION DEFICIT HYPERSENSITIVITY DISORDER

What are the signs and symptoms of adult ADD/ADHD?

ADD/ADHD in adults can seriously impair work, finances, and relationships. Adults with ADD/ADHD may have the following symptoms of inattention and hyperactivity/impulsivity:

□        not remembering being told something,
        
□        "zoning out" in conversations,
        
□        being late or forgetting to show up when expected,
        
□        speaking without thinking,
        
□        pressured rapid-fire speech, seemingly random, and aimless hopping from one topic to the next,
        
□        perceived as aloof and arrogant, or tiresomely talkative and boorish,
        
□        compulsive joking, often about personal life history and feelings,
        
□        easily frustrated or bored,
        
□        leaving a mess,
        
□        procrastination (difficulty starting tasks),
        
□        incompletion (starting tasks, household projects, or book reading, but not completing them before new projects or new books are begun, leaving a never-ending to-do list),
        
□        underestimating the time needed to finish a task,
        
□        insecurity and self-esteem issues because of unmet high personal expectations, and
        
□        often a high achiever, even an overachiever, but with poor self-image because of beliefs that more could be accomplished if not for disorganization.
        
How is adult ADD/ADHD different from childhood ADD/ADHD?

As someone with ADD/ADHD develops from a child into a teenager and then into an adult, the symptoms of ADD/ADHD look different. Often the hyperactivity of childhood evolves into more impulsive behaviors. And executive function (self-regulation) impairment takes the forefront as the individual copes with the complexity of life.

Hyperactivity may appear as:

□        uncontrolled arousal (anger),
        
□        feeling overwhelmed, and
        
□        talking excessively.
        
Impulsiveness may look like:

□        irritability,
        
□        quick anger,
        
□        inadequate censorship of rude or insulting thoughts, and
        
□        poor timing in interactions.
        
Inattentiveness may show itself as:

□        unwilled tuning-out,
        
□        the inability to focus on mundane tasks, and
        
□        the tendency to hyperfocus on interesting tasks.
        
While adults with ADHD may often have great difficulty maintaining attention, those same individuals might be able to focus with great intensity and for long periods on tasks or projects that hold interest for them—even compulsively engaged in the activity for long hours and with lack of awareness of the time or of other responsibilities. Because of this ability to "hyperfocus" and the potential for significant related accomplishments, some adults with ADD-like behaviors (such as Da Vinci, Einstein, and Churchill) are highly successful doctors, lawyers, teachers, athletes, scientists, politicians, and artists.

How does executive functioning relate to adult ADD/ADHD?

According to Thomas E. Brown, Ph.D., at the Yale University School of Medicine, "ADHD is essentially a name for developmental impairment of executive function." Five symptom clusters that reflect executive functioning problems are consistently reported by adults with ADHD:

□        problems getting organized, prioritizing, and activating tasks;
        
□        difficulty sustaining focus and attention, especially with reading;
        
□        trouble sustaining alertness, effort, processing speed, and motivation;
        
□        issues related to affect, such as preventing anger from getting out of control;
        
□        deficits in working memory (the ability to hold something in mind while doing something else)
        
□        and memory retrieval.
        
The pre-frontal cortex of the brain is responsible for "executive functions" – the skills involved in planning, organization, selective attention, and inhibitory controls. They include such abilities as:

□        impulse control,
        
□        resistance to distraction,
        
□        delay of gratification,
        
□        self-regulation and self-control, and
        
□        motivation and persistence.
        
Adults with ADD/ADHD struggle daily with self-regulation: regulating their attention, regulating their impulses in talking and action, and regulating their emotions.

What signs and symptoms of ADD/ADHD are specific to women?

Girls have ADHD without the hyperactivity more often than do boys, and girls are often not diagnosed until the teenage years or later. Instead, they may be seen as talkative, tomboyish (particularly for those who DO have hyperactivity), flighty (because of distractibility, and starting numerous projects simultaneously), or flaky (due to impulsivity and incompletion of projects). Some girls may have impulse control problems, and get into fights with others, causing them to be labeled as "difficult" or "emotional," rather than as having a condition rooted in the brain.

Thus, when girls grow into women, they may not have had a diagnosis of ADD or ADHD. They may find themselves facing the same challenges as men with ADD/ADHD: the social difficulties, the time management problems, the financial disorganization, the lack of a feeling of having control over their lives. However, because women are often expected to multi-task and to handle a variety of work, family, and community roles, women may have several additional problems:

□        Perfectionism ("Superwoman Syndrome") – Many women feel that they need to do things extremely well, to the point of stress or burnout. Women with ADD/ADHD may find they cannot meet even their most modest self-expectations, and their sense of self further deteriorates.
        
□        Shame, embarrassment, and guilt – Cultural expectations of women often create humiliation for those with ADD/ADHD. They may have difficulty getting children to school on time or providing a consistent structure for homework. They may not want visitors to their home because of the chaotic state.
        
□        Depression – While males might "act out" their symptoms of ADHD, females often internalize their stress, leading to symptoms of depression.
        
□        Anxiety – Women often feel that they need to appear to be "twice as good" as men to be treated as equals. This can lead to a great source of distress for those who are already having trouble keeping things together.
        
□        Dual careers – Women are often responsible for a job outside of the home, in addition to having the primary responsibility for childcare, housework, cooking, shopping, and family social planning. For a woman who has difficulties with organization and follow-through, these additional roles are additional stressors.
        
□        Single-parenting – When marriages end in divorce, women are far more likely to be the primary (or sole) parent. The financial, disciplinary, and other responsibilities mount, straining an already challenged mother with ADD/ADHD.
        
□        Hormones – In women without ADD/ADHD, hormonal cycles often bring moodiness, tension, and a sense of being "out of control." Menopause often brings additional stressors of forgetfulness and "craziness." Any or all of these symptoms are exaggerated for women who have ADD/ADHD.
        
How does adult ADD/ADHD affect eating behaviors?

The impulsivity that sometimes accompanies Adult ADD/ADHD may extend to eating, and many adults who have ADD/ADHD suffer from overeating, obesity, or disordered eating. Kathleen G. Nadeau talks about the connection between ADHD (ADD) and disordered eating:

□        Healthy dietary regulation requires organization and planning - two areas of cognitive functioning that are typically difficult for those with ADD (ADHD). Good eating habits also require self-awareness - awareness of when one is hungry, awareness of when one is full.
        
□        Many adults with ADD (ADHD) report that they skip meals because they were busy and distracted; these same individuals often report that later their hunger becomes so intense that they swing in the opposite direction, overeating well beyond the point of reasonable intake because they don't know when to stop until they feel "stuffed."
        
□        And adults eat for many reasons besides hunger - including boredom, self-stimulation, anger, sadness, reward, simple food availability, and stress relief. It is easy to understand how consistent self-regulation, which is a well-documented difficulty for those with ADD (ADHD), can lead to patterns of chronic over-eating.
□        
Adults with ADD/ADHD may

□        have no regularly planned meals and eat fast-food snacks and meals throughout the day;
        
□        find that they do not have the ability to stick with a dietary regimen to lose weight;
        
□        have cravings for certain foods, such as carbohydrates (sugars and starches) and caffeine (in coffee and chocolate);
        
□        fast and binge, mistakenly thinking that skipping meals is good for you, then overeat at the next meal; and
        
□        not pay enough attention to hunger signs, wait until it's too late to plan a healthy meal, and then eat junk food to satisfy the hunger.
        
What money management problems do adults with ADD/ADHD have?

The ADD/ADHD symptoms of procrastination, disorganization, and impulsivity can interfere with good money management. Adults with ADD/ADHD may find that they:

□        forget to pay bills,
        
□        run up huge balances on their credit cards,
        
□        cannot save money,
        
□        are unable to follow through on long-term financial goals,
        
□        shop impulsively,
        
□        have difficulty keeping financial paperwork in order, and
        
□        fail at budgeting and recordkeeping.
        
Why do so many people recognize their symptoms of ADD/ADHD only in adulthood?

Many people learn that they have ADD/ADHD when they become adults. This late recognition of the symptoms of ADD/ADHD may be because:

□        Only recently has it become public knowledge that ADHD is not always outgrown and can persist into adulthood.
        
□        By the time they are adults, people have developed many compensations for their ADHD symptoms, and they may not see themselves as different from other people.
        
□        In many cases, adults self-medicate to compensate for or mask the symptoms of ADHD.
        
□        People are not well enough educated about ADHD to recognize the symptoms.
        
Some adults first find out that they have ADD or ADHD when their children receive a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD: they then become educated about the condition and realize that they also have it. Other adults have so many problems in their relationships that they finally seek professional help, and the practitioner suggests that they have ADHD. Still others learn about ADHD from the media and then seek a diagnosis.

Many adults feel relieved when they find out they have ADD or ADHD. A lifetime of struggle is suddenly explained.

What are some positive aspects of having ADD/ADHD?

Adults with ADD can be very fun to be with! Some of the positive traits are:

□        Creativity – Daydreaming and attending to many different thoughts at once can be just the right trait for creative problem-solving. People with ADD are often excellent at brainstorming ideas. Because they do not choose which ideas to focus on too early, they are more open to considering all ideas, to engaging in divergent thinking. Such thinking allows for rare insights in such fields as art, music, and science. Creative thinking is especially useful to inventors, entertainers, comedians, and medical doctors.
        
□        Enthusiasm, spontaneity, liveliness, flexibility – Attending to a lot of thoughts at once can provide lively conversation for others who associate with the person with ADD.
        
□        Hyperfocus, high energy, tenacity and drive – If something is interesting to a person with ADD, there may be no way to distract them from the task! This is particularly true of interactive or hands-on activities.
        
□        Intelligence – Some adults with ADD are extremely bright or gifted.
        
Could ADHD actually be a gift?

In 1993, Thom Hartmann proposed that the "condition" of ADHD is actually a gift, a 10,000 year old leftover of hunters in a farmer's world. According to his explanation, the problem lies more with our current cultural expectations and with our schools (designed by and for "farmers" – those who plan ahead tend their fields carefully) than with the child whose brain, for whatever reason, is more like that of the hunter:

□        scanning the environment (for prey)
        
□        the ability fall into a dream-like state for long periods (during down periods)
        
□        the ability to become suddenly hyperfocused and thrive on danger and excitement (the hunt)
        
The modern hunter "… is hunting in a metaphorical sense. Hunting for excitement. Hunting for the prize: the cure for cancer or the truth in the theory of global warming. Hunting for the mental or physical stimulation to mimic the hunt of our ancestors. Entrepreneurs are a good example."


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Naemanson
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 07:56 PM

This answers a lot of questions for me. Of course, we all know people for whom SOME of these symptoms apply. But I have experienced MOST of them all my life. Now I know.

So, do you know someone who might fit the bill? Trust me, if you do they are suffering. You may not realize it but they are working hard to get through everyday living. It may be time to show them that description and let them do a little self diagnosis.

This also reopens the question of fate. I've never been someone who believes in fate or destiny. But do people with ADHD have any control over their future?


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 07:59 PM

Our son was diagnosed at age 7. He is now 28. He still shows nearly all the 'childhood' symptoms and most of the adult ones. He is NOT a candidate for 'higher education' even though he is very intelligent.

Give him a hands on task, show and tell him how to do it, and he gets an A. Ask him to read a book and take a written test, he blows it every time. He is using meds to help control the anger and frustration, and all in all is doing very well.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Bert
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:13 PM

Sheesh, the buggers have been watching me!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: cookster
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:22 PM

I have ADHD.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: cookster
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:23 PM

,but I'm still a kid.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: GUEST,sinky
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:39 PM

can any social nuisance claim they have adhd? Our pub is full of them,they should call it THE ADHD ARMS.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:06 PM

Brett, one good thing has come out of it- you now understand it. And that can only be a plus.

Good luck to all youse guys. ('youse' used advisedly)


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:15 PM

Thanks for that, Brett. It explains some things I've always wondered about in some family members. I think I will send the part about women to a relative, as a matter of fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: InOBU
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 11:01 PM

I'm away in the morning, will be back on Monday, email me at INOBU@aol.com... much more on this when I have time, remind me... most people at mudcat have ADHD. over 80% of Pratt Inst. a major NYC art school was so diagnosed. it is not a disorder, it is a genetic adaptaition to a situation where one large group of great apes needed to 1. lead hunts 2. commit war. It can be a virtue when you learn what it is and how to use it, most entrapenuers have ADHD. There is a huge instance of it in the USA, because those who were not content to die in the fields during hard times in the old world came here.
It is not disorganized thinking, it is 1. highly logical 2. strategic 3. trouble with simple sets - the ouch part.
BUT! many many many successful folks were successful BECAUSE of adhd.
Again, must run so email me next week to continue this... it is one reason I can't spell - trouble with simple sets, but is also the reason I graduated one of the top law schools in the US.
Don't worry... we are normal... it is all the rest that... never mind.

=D
lor


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: InOBU
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 11:02 PM

PS Sorcha:
email me about this!!!!!!!!
"Our son was diagnosed at age 7. He is now 28. He still shows nearly all the 'childhood' symptoms and most of the adult ones. He is NOT a candidate for 'higher education' even though he is very intelligent."
lor
PS don't expect a reply before Tues.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 11:29 PM

Well, I ticked practically all the boxes, now what?


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: cookster
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 11:38 PM

Don't look at me.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Alec
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 01:18 AM

I have been Dyspraxic(a closely related condition) since birth though I was not diagnosed as such until the age of 33.
I did not enter further education until the age of 26,did not enter higher education until the age of 31 & did not enter postgraduate education until the age of 36.
The crucial thing though is that I did succeed at all of those levels.
I am now training as a SCUBA diver (a desire since childhood)
I still show all the symptoms listed above but no longer allow myself to be limited by them.
I would advise anybody in the same boat to know & acknowledge their own limitations but to be sure not to underestimate themselves either.
If you have ADHD or similar & wish to take a degree & believe yourself capable of doing so then go for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 04:19 AM

What's "disorder" about it? Nearly all the mnore-than-marginally interesting people I know exhibit most of those "symptoms". I think the problem is all those other people who have BULL (Boring Unimaginative Linear Lives).

Some bugger has defined ordinary people as "disordered" and set themselves up as an authority over you. Next they'll want to "cure" you. Give them the bum's rush.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Naemanson
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 04:35 AM

I have, or have had, difficulty with all of the following: problems getting organized, prioritizing, and activating tasks; difficulty sustaining focus and attention, especially with reading; trouble sustaining alertness, effort, processing speed, and motivation; issues related to affect, such as preventing anger from getting out of control; deficits in working memory (the ability to hold something in mind while doing something else); and memory retrieval.

Starting new tasks is generally too complex an idea for me. Finding and gathering materials, setting up a workspace, and finding the time all make for too much complication. I am likely to just bag the idea and find something simpler to do.

As for the reading part, I cannot read anything that does not grip my attention. Thus I can read history and some forms of fiction but not the duller academic work that one needs to read for a well rounded education.

I often zone out in conversations, get frustrated in meetings and lines, and cannot stand anyone dithering about a decision (though I dither myself all the time). I get very angry with family members and close friends though not so much with strangers.

I can not do repetitive tasks. If a task requires repeated movements A to B, B to C, C to D, and so on, I get lost on about the third iteration.

These are the problems I am hoping to get "fixed". I certainly don't want to lose my creativity or anything else that makes me who I am.

Any more stories about the effect of the drugs on your personalities?


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 06:21 AM

That's just being human, Naemanson. You're comparing yourself with some ideal set up by others, and its INTENDED to make you fail. Be what you really are, only you can know that. There's no drug in the world that can make you more yourself than you. Only countenance change if the real you is so undesirable that there's no alternative. If I had a compulsion to murder children, it would be only sensible to make me take the drugs. If I'm merely not a textbook consumer, sod them.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Midchuck
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 07:20 AM

A person who did not show any of the symptoms listed would be too dull to want to spend any time with.

I would say I exhibit 40% - 50% of them. Probably more when I was younger. But I learned to fake being normal when I had to.

Peter


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 07:35 AM

I don't do drugs any more - I get the same effect standing up really fast.

Faking being normal is a bit like how George Burns described acting being all about honesty. "If you can fake that you've got it made".

Well done!!
:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Naemanson
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 08:33 AM

I don't think you understand the extent of the problem. It's possible that you actually don't exhibit these symptoms to any great extent.

The way I describe what goes on in my head is that it is like a swirling fog in there. Occasionally something comes into focus and that is what I can do that day. I can walk past a simple job a hundred times and not even see it. A friend talked to me about Alzheimer's last week. Two days later I told him the same story. I remembered the story but forgot who told it. Things slip into and out of my attention like they were greased and on a slick surface. I pick up my guitar to play and decide to do that every evening. Two weeks later I realize that I haven't touched the thing since. It isn't that I had no interest. I simply forgot what I wanted to do.

This happens all the time. I have no consistency in my life. My wife has to remind me that I need to leave for work. I KNOW I have to go but I forget when I have to leave. Simple regular appointments slip out of my mind. I make an appointment and then forget that I have even spoken to anyone about it.

I have almost no memory of my childhood. Some events, special or particularly difficult events, flash to the surface but they are disconnected from anything else. They could have happened to someone else.

I understand that there are people out there who are absent minded. But this is deeper than that. One of the difficulties that psychologists have in making people see the disorder, and it IS a disorder, is that too many people do not realize the extent of the problem.

Consider a small business owner. There are many details to attend to when you own a business. Where would he be if he simply forgot to go to the store every so often, if he failed to order stock because the process was overwhelming, if his bills didn't get paid because he didn't remember to put money in the account. You may poo-poo that idea but that is what this is like.

I can sit here and write about it simply because it is my interest du jour. But even though it is my interest it took me three weeks to remember that I wanted to research the problem. I was not diagnosed recently. It was a month ago. But every time I sat down at the computer it slipped my mind and I did something else.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 08:51 AM

OK, I'm sorry if I seemed to be belittling your problem- and the fact that it's YOUR problem, not some doctor's. Is it a new problem? Can you remember being any other way? Or have you always been like this, and have more recently become frustrated by the effects?

The side effects of Ritalin, the usual drug, appear to be high blood pressure, queasiness, and nervousness. A study has shown chromosomal defects and growth problems in children, but if you're not growing and not reproducing, it's not an issue. That's not a big price to pay for the chance of reducing a problem that seems to be troubling you a great deal. Give it a whizz, you can always stop if it doesn't improve things or if you seem to be turning into the kind of person you don't like.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 09:07 AM

I understand that Ritalin isn't given to adults. I've heard that over the counter antihistimines can help.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: The Villan
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 11:24 AM

My daughter was diagnosed at about 8 although we knew for years but nobody would do anything. She is now 16.
Since she was diagnosed, I have slowly come to the realisation that my father and myself are probably ADHD but never been diagnosed.

My daughter went on to Ritalin and after 4 months of using it, her teacher pleaded with us to take her off it as her character had disappeared. We agreed and we took her off it.

One other thing that Ritalin can do is affect your blood, but they don't tell you too much about that.

It is normal to test ADHD sufferers for Aspbergers as that can be closely linked. My daughter came out OK on the tests, but there was one aspect of the test that she scored high on for Aspbergers, and it shows itself occasionally and on those occasions she appears to be as bad as my Autistic daughter.

However, love care and attention to them is highly critical. Very often I sometimes think ADHD people who haven't been diagnosed, get treated pretty rough, and parents get accused by their own family of being poor parents.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 01:50 PM

Aside from prescription drugs, anyone know of proven natural treatments?


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Midchuck
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 01:55 PM

Aside from prescription drugs, anyone know of proven natural treatments?

1) Doing music.

2) Regular aerobic exercise.

3) Having no choice but to get things done because you won't get paid until they are.

4) Beer (in some sort of moderation).

I don't know about "proven," but I'm convinced that (1) through (3) work for me, and (4) makes me worry about it less.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 01:59 PM

Thanks, Peter... but Doing Music helps me avoid what needs to be done
Aerobic Exercise gives me an excuse not to be working on what needs to be done
3) makes me feel like a deer in the headlights so I am imobilized and can't start what needs to be done
and beer... well, never really liked it. What about coffee?
;-)
a.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 02:00 PM

Peter, I think I need to go talk to your daughter about this....


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Barry Finn
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 05:23 PM

I keep attempting to post to this thread but end up getting distracted each time. I will return, did MacArthur have ADHD?

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Janie
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 06:30 PM

Meditation, cognitive behavioral therapy, coaching, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy skills training, and getting help with all the comorbid stuff that can go along with it. Finding niches and work environments that work for you. Finding reasonable ways to compensate where necessary. (As opposed to unreasonable ways that just cause even more problems, such as obsessive/compulsive stuff.)

When affective disregulation is a significant issue (that anger)own that bad behavior is bad behavior, no matter how angry you are, and that ADHD is no excuse to behave abusively (physically or emotionally) in relationships. Recognize that external control of others with the anger and demanding behaviors is not an effective way to compensate for a lack of sense of internal control.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 06:58 PM

And, a book called, I THINK--Right Brain, Left Brain will help everybody understand more stuff. It has nothing to do with handedness, but with how we think, reason, and solve. Includes methods of teaching each type of brain-ed person.

If I'd had it when the son was still in school, I think he'd have done a lot better, but I think it can help adults too.

Lor, I will PM you later.
Alice, let me find out what I heard.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Janie
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 08:28 PM

Remember how individual and unique each individual is. A medicine that may make one person feel or act like a zombie may be just the ticket for another individual. If a doctor is suggesting medications, be willing to work with the physician, and to also give signed consent for your wife or other close family members to exchange information and observations with the MD.

For the following, I am using the generic 'you', and not implying to Brett or anyone else that I am assuming my remarks apply to a particular individual.

If you need a reminder to stop what you are doing and get your shoes on and leave for work, and your wife is ok with doing that, then let her. But if you ask for help, you must then be willing to accept the help that is offered with good heart. If she says stop what you are doing and leave, then stop what you are doing and leave.

If you are able to control your behaviors when angry with others you are capable of learning to control your behavior when angry with close family members. If you are able to modulate angry feelings with others, then you are capable of learning to modulate angry feelings with close family members. DBT skills training can be especially useful in learning strategies to acheive or improve emotion regulation.

I just ended a 25 year relationship with a very gifted and troubled man whose ADHD symptoms were all toward the extreme end of the spectrum. In the end, it was the anger that I was no longer willing to live with. The ADHD symptoms were dominant, but it was not the only mental health issue involved. However, many of the other mental health issues probably could be traced back to the experience of the ADHD in an early invalidating environment. Thus, the comorbidity.

Anger on the edge of control, or out of control, can be a very powerful tool for controlling the people and the environment around you. Some people, not just people with ADD, are hardwired to be more vulnerable to affective disregulation (that lack of executive control of emotions). This can create an internal sense of chaos. To compensate, the individual may seek excessive control of his environment, including his social environment. With spouses, children, very close personal friends who desire to preserve and protect a relationship, the reaction to excessive anger is often to be placating and accomodating. This sets up a negative feedback loop in which the display of excess anger is rewarded by the people with whom you are in close relationship doing what it is you want them to do, or conceding to your demands. In otherwords, the anger works to give you control and get your immediate demands and perceived needs met, and so provides positive reinforcement for your anger driven behaviors.

In my own situation, I will probably struggle with guilt over leaving for the rest of my life. In part this is because I understand that he is mentally ill (and again, I'm talking about a combination of comorbid stuff, not just the severe ADHD) and I took the bit about in sickness and in health seriously, but especially because I understand how my own decisions over the years to accomodate his demands in the face of his intimidating rages actually served to reinforce his behaviors. If I had not been so accommodating, the marriage would have perhaps ended sooner, but it could have also led to some feedback to him regarding the damage that was being done to a relationship he valued (I believe) and would have contributed to opportunities for him to take responsbility for himself instead of using his mental illnesses as an excuse.

In the meantime, I myself no longer need to take antidepressants for the first time in 13 years, in spite of other very significant life stressors.

Brett, I think you make a very good point in a post above that I can't get to now since I hit 'preview'. Behaviors and emotions exist across a broad continuum. There are definitely degrees of expression of personality traits, behaviors, intensity or regulation of emotion. If plotted on a normal, or bell, curve, the range (or degree of variation) of any particular behavior or internal experience that falls within 'normal' is actually quite broad. Most of us can identify a number of ways in which we approach 'abnormal' or 'dysfunctional' or 'exceptional'. It is only when those attributes approach the edges of the curve that the degree of severity, or when, taken as a whole, our strengths and positive attributes can not sufficiently compensate for our weaknesses or less functional attributes, that we cross the threshold between 'issues' and 'disorder'.

It is also very important to understand that diagnoses such as ADHD are descriptive diagnoses. We are at the infant stage in our knowledge and understanding of the etiologies of 'mental' disorders. The information you provided from your research in your first two posts is well advanced beyond what our understanding of the etiology(ies) of ADHD was when I came out of graduate school. And yet, it is still a very primative understanding.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Naemanson
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 09:03 PM

A note to all: Please understand that whenever I use the word 'you' without somebody's name then I am using the collective 'you'. If I disagree with someone, or want to make a point of agreeing with someone, I will use their posted name in the post.

Having said that, PMB, please understand that my post was not an aimed post. I was just trying to make my own symptoms a little clearer. Somebody up the line commented on getting through graduate school (or was it law school?). I managed to get through college and I am currently working through graduate school. I can do it but... How in hell can someone read through all the texts they have to read for school? I managed to get through my college days because the courses were generally very easy. And I almost quit when I failed Organic Chemistry and Calculus (GP for the semester was .75). Then I switched to a history major and things became easier. I still couldn't maintain my attention on my books very well and papers were usually last minute things. ("Deadlines... I love the swooshing sound they make as they fly past.")

Thanks, Janie, for your contribution. Please try to release the guilt. A person HAS to do some things to protect themselves. I know (NOW) that this ADHD thing has negatively impacted my relationships down through the years. It was just getting started on my current marriage when the doctor gave me his diagnosis and started me on Concerta.

As for the drug, I have noticed that I am more patient with my wife, less likely to fly off the handle. There are behaviors of hers that annoyed me only a few weeks ago but now I can accept them and keep my cool. My mind hasn't cleared up but the doctor is still experimenting with the correct dosage, sneaking up on it from week to week. My life has definitely gotten better.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: GUEST,Ralphy
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 04:14 PM

Whats up? very intersting conversation! I have a pretty severe case of adhd i was diagnosed maybe a month ago im 21 and currently taking a drug called adderall its a stimulant which works very well for me, unfortunatley i have a lot of friends who like the drug and want it for themselves, so now they are going to doctors and are faking adhd, now how can a doctor tell if the patient is faking or not?


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: philgarringer
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 04:49 PM

I was trying to keep up with this thread, but I got distracted about halfway through.

I was given Ritalin 20 years ago, as a young adult. I used to drink lots of cappacino and smoke some buen yerba when I was on it. I stopped taking it after about 6 months, as well as tocando la yerba buena!

AD/HD is mostly a scam. Ritalin is poison. They are drugging children, and getting them into the Pharmaculture at an early age. I believe a majority of the patients given drugs for ADD are young boys. We will someday reap the whirlwind over this drigging of a generation.

Most of my "symptoms" are easily alleviated by diet. Refined wheat and sugars affect me, so I try to stay away from them.


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 01:35 PM

It's a scam now, is it? Spoken like a true suffer of ADD/ADHD! Impulsive, knee jerk, not well thought out & certinly not a socialy excepable reaction to one's disorder. It is boys that suffer more than girls from this disorder, DUH!

Anyway, I got distracted. I find that the folks that know us best are the ones that can help us the most, as a "life coach". They see us in our moods, modes & mading mindless manners. They know when a medication is helpful or not, we are not the most self aware group on the planet, probably one of the least. This is indicated sometimes by a symptom called 'foot in mouth' disorder. There are benifits from this condition though I've only found a few of them for myself. Like I can work long & late on things that I find that I can focus on. On things that I need to focus on I am disorginized & easily get distracted from & it becomes a struggle, again partly because of an undisciplined . Many of us a quite bright but test poorly do to our limited ability to follow more than a 3 step direction & do better with a visual aid rather than a written or verbal type of communacation. We don't generally spell very well either.
Ionly found out about this condition about 15 yrs ago while searching for info on my son's disabilities, he is medicated, thank the Gods, for both him & me (& the rest of the family). Myself I've been medicated but have never found anything that really works well, only stuff that's been slihtly helpfull. Omega 3 oils fiish oils seems to have be somewhat of a benifit but my son has had far better luck with meds than I have. I know that as far as schooling went ADHD has been a disaster for me though at the time it was me being the kid that couldn't sit still & couldn't concentrate, though there are some that can better funnel this disorder into a more constructive & creative ability, I was not one of them. We are often thought of as flightly & emotionally distached or a bit distant but we're not we just are listening to the conversation at hand + the radio + the TV & the telephone while we're reading a book at the same time & doing a good job of keeping all these things seperate & on track never mind the 4 way conversation that going on in our heads that no one else is aware of.
Some of us besides being self medicators (coffee, tabacco, drink, drugs, etc.) are also risk or danger junkies or just junkies of another sort, who crave excitment & find boredom a hard thing to deal with. It not any wonder why many of us are not prone to do well with conventional education, we do beter with a different unconventional style or approach but this is only beginning to be explored these days, seeng as it slowly becomes a recognized disability, though there are stil some crying fraud & scam, sadly some of them are suffers that might benifit from some accecptance to their plight.
Well Bret & others welcome to the family, sorry that you're saddled with this but we all can do well by making the best of what we've been dealt with & the knowledge that we're not alone & we have others that might be able to have a hand in aiding or guiding us & understanding us. For those that are not aware there is another rather new drug that's doing well with many "Strattera", it's only a bit helpful for me but many are reporting wonders with it. Some insurance companies don't cover it or have very high co-pays tagged to it. Insurance companies, there's a battle for the Add/ADHD suffer, they make treating this a nightmare,asking all the things of me that I have a disability dealing with. I have to keep track of my history of disorders, appointments, charts, meds, who I've ever seen & what they've written done or said before they'll approve anything & even then I have to co-pay $158 a month for the Strattera & the say I'm lucky at that. They want me to keep my life in order, where'd they get their medical degree?
Nice keeping track of all the above coversations, an excerising & exciting thread.

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 01:39 PM

We also some times push the submit button before editing & doing spell check, sorry.

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 04:34 PM

Brett-

I'm pleased to hear that your doctor is monitoring the impact of your medication. Evidently some people exhibit bizarre behavior if they are over medicated or on the wrong medication. We have an upstairs tenant who's lived there 5 years but a couple of years ago began exhibiting paronoid fantasies. When we finally contacted her parents they hastened to intervene and after a month or so she was back to a more manageable level. She's no longer huddling in the corner with the shades drawn worrying about who might be sneaking in her second story window. And she's held her current job as a photographer for over a year, and as a single mother doing a fairly good job of raising her daughter.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Janie
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 05:00 PM

Charley,

Are you saying she developed paranoid and psychosis as a side effect to a medication for ADHD that she was taking only as prescribed?

Or are you saying she was prescribed ritalin or another amphetamine for ADHD, abused it and got strung out, resulting in a paranoid psychosis?

Or are you saying she has or developed a psychotic disorder that improved when she was properly medicated and monitored by a psychiatrist or other physician?

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Naemanson
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 05:03 PM

Barry, you mentioned the "...4 way conversation that going on in our heads..." It never occurred to me that others don't have to listen to that. Just once I wish they would talk about something useful. Thanks for the info on Strattera. I THINK my doctor said something about it at our last session. I remember you saying something about your son's medical problems. I hope he's doing better.

Charley, your tenant can't have lived in that apartment for five years. I used to live there and I haven't been gone that long have I? Besides, I thought you were holding that place for me when I come back. *grin*


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 06:12 PM

Janie-

My understanding is that "she developed paranoid and psychosis as a side effect to a medication for ADHD that she was taking..." and either the dosage was too high or it was the wrong medication for her. She is doing much better now but she will always find it a challenge to operate in this world and she's aware of that.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: Janie
Date: 03 Aug 07 - 07:13 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Charley. And I should have typed paranoia, and not 'paranoid.'

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: ADHD in Adults
From: GUEST,Keinstein
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 10:18 AM

Your ADHD shrunk without surgery- well, not quite, not yet. But it seems that non- medical interventions are effective in ADHD in children at least. Positive support to reinforce behaviour- that sounds more hopeful than creativity- numbing drugs to me.


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