Subject: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jul 07 - 03:28 PM Two questions: First of all, The Rose of Allandale (or "Allendale," I've seen it spelled both ways). I had heard the song a number of times—even have it on a couple of CDs—but somehow the song always managed to slip by me. Good song, but it just never jumped out at me and said. "This is a terrific song! Learn it!" Then, not all that long ago, I discovered The Corries on YouTube. They've been around since the early 60s and have disbanded with the death 0f Roy Williamson of a brain tumor in 1990. But I had never heard them before, and was strongly taken with a number of songs they do, such as Jock o' Hazeldean and The Loch Tay Boat Song, which I hauled off and learned. I also like several other songs they do, and are on the agenda of songs I want to sing myself, such as Ronnie Browne's rendition of Eric Bogle's The Green Fields of France (a timely song, considering. . . .). One of those songs is The Rose of Allandale, which, as I said, I'd heard, but it hadn't grabbed me. The Corries' rendition of the song did reach out to me. But I find here on Mudcat that several people say "Ther're doing it all wrong! Wrong rhythm, wrong tune! It schtinks! Ptui!!" So I set about listening to other performances of the song. Some people perform it in 4/4, as The Corries do, and some perform it in 3/4. To me, the 3/4 rendition drags, and lacks momentum—which is why I hadn't particularly noticed the song before. In my judgment, The Corries' rendition puts across the feeling of the song quite well, and the 4/4 rhythm fits the words of the song better than the 3/4 rhythm. Also, everybody I've listened to varies the notes of the melody slightly, but the overall melodic curve of each phrase is the same. I put that down to simple "folk process." One of the performances I've listened to is The Dubliners, and although they sing it a tad slower than The Corries and a note or two may be different, they do it almost exactly the same way. So what's wrong with the way The Corries do it? Second, some folks here seem to dislike The Corries in general. This I don't understand. It's not as if I haven't heard a lot of folk singers and folk groups. I've been deeply involved in folk music since around 1951, so I've heard a whole variety of singers and groups, all sizes, shapes, and abilities. And I find that I'm fairly impressed by The Corries. Is it, perhaps, the same kind of feeling that, say, many American folk aficionados of the more purist persuasion feel toward such commercial groups as the Kingston Trio, The Limeliters, and the New Christy Minstrels? Not sufficiently "pure?" Although they didn't strike me that way, do some people regard them as "too commercial?" Since I know very little about them, and all I have to go on so far are my own ears, how are The Corries generally regarded by most folkies? Don Firth |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Stewart Date: 29 Jul 07 - 04:12 PM Hi Don, I've listened to all of the videos you linked. The Corries are nice, I can't say I dislike them, but all of their songs seem to have the same style and I think I might tire of that after a while. They are well polished (maybe too much), both in their singing and in their accompaniment. The R of A by the Corries does seem to move at a good clip. I like the slightly slower tempo of the Dubliners, but the Dubliners rendition seems too overly orchestrated for my taste - too overproduced for what should be a simple song. You probably haven't heard our friend Jerry Middaugh sing recently, but he does a very nice version of the R of A. He sings it in 4/4 time (if I recall right) and unaccompanied, in a sort of Appalachian style. The best part of it is his phrasing which puts a lot of feeling into it - not overdone, but in a simple way. I think you would like it if you heard him sing it. I think the Corries' version lacks a bit of that feeling. Again, I don't dislike the singing of the Corries, but I think I might get a bit tired of it after a while. Cheers, S. in Seattle |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: DMcG Date: 29 Jul 07 - 04:20 PM The impression I get is that many people considered them to be ersatz folkies, rather than the genuine article. For myself, I find that harsh but it arose in part from the fact they performed in theatres and that by all accounts Roy Williamson was a perfectionist in the matter of the whole performance - making sure all the shirts were ironed before the duo went on stage; making every gag word for word the same in each show and so on. This is in contrast to the 'real revival' singers stuck in pub rooms who were more likely to sing or play dressed in whatever they had travelled to the gig wearing. There are still a few songs I sing that I first heard from the Corries, and am glad to have done so. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Bill D Date: 29 Jul 07 - 04:27 PM well, Don, since it is I who may have precipitated this thread, I will do my best, bearing in mind that it ultimately IS a matter of taste & preference. First, having listened to both The Corries & The Dubliners, I have to say I find their approaches quite different...and I FAR prefer the Dubliners version. To me the Corries DO play with the tune and meter excessively, and introduce a feeling in it that detracts from the basic 'feel' of the lyrics. It seems to me that the Corries make the song about the Corries, rather than about a lovely woman. To a lesser extent, so do the Dubliners...probably because both were famous, professional groups who felt the need to 'make the song their own' and have a version out there that was 'identified' as theirs. I have heard many...(8?-10?)...excellent amateurs sing it, usually, as you say, in ¾ time, and usually joined on the refrain by medium to large groups. It was a case of "let's see how lovely and moving I/we can make this song sound", rather than "let's see how I/we can use a pretty song to call attention to ourselves". Yes, that's not an accusation I can prove or defend in detail...but you probably know of instances where YOU suspected singers were doing that on other songs. In general, a lot of folks feel that The Corries, like The Kingston Trio and various other 'hot' groups did sometimes sacrifice the song in order to satisfy their notion of what their audience wanted to hear....a 'sound' that is associated with them. They are obviously talented, and much of what they do IS pleasant enough....and IF I had heard only their version of "Allendale", I might regard it as quite a nice song.....but when I said in that other thread that my wife sings it better..*smile* (she also plays it on a zither)...I meant exactly that she DOES take of of the prettiest melodies I know and exalt it with feeling and taste...not 'just' produce an interesting version. Still....it is always de gustibus non disputandum and I am always aware that others can give reasons for their own difference of opinion. There is another song, "Andy's Gone with Cattle" that I always sort of liked, but never liked a LOT until I heard Gerry Hallom do it in 4/4 rather than the usual 3/4...it totally changed the song for me. (and I don't particularly care for Gerry Hallom personally...*shrug*) so....that's the best I can do without palying 8 versions and pointing... |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: The Sandman Date: 29 Jul 07 - 04:33 PM if you ever get achance to hear Nic Jones version,Ithink youwill like it. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: goatfell Date: 29 Jul 07 - 04:35 PM I like the Corries, the Dubliners and the Spinners(frae liverpool) (for our American friends), because they entertain you, and had all had differerent styles, some people think that it's wrong to be entertaining, but it's all right to be dull and boring and just sing dirge after dirge. Tom I mean at the Folk club/session that I go to I try and entertain there as well, I don't if the song that I sing is shit just as long as the crowd sing along with me, I mean that's what singers are supposed to do anyway itsn't it? |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: kendall Date: 29 Jul 07 - 04:35 PM I vaguely recall this topic from some time back, but, since it's here again, I like the Corries, and I was very disappointed that when in Scotland I missed their performance by one day! Now, that said, I have always thought that they drove the piss out of R of D, and I much prefer the version by Mary Black. Oh, yeah, I can hear the groans from here. I hear she's not too popular with the purists, but so what? I like her on that one song. Even a busted clock is right twice a day. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: The Sandman Date: 29 Jul 07 - 04:49 PM the Corries version of LochLomond is good,their version of Rose of Allendale is not, Mary Blacks version is probably based on Nic Jones,she ripped off his version of Annachie Gordon[check it out]. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: GUEST,signing in Date: 29 Jul 07 - 05:05 PM So? Nic Jones says he got it from the Copper Family. As for Mary Black borrowing from him, so what? That's the way songs are passed on. Anyway I don't hear where you get that inference. I vote for Mary's version. The Corries? Neither worse nor better, just different. It's all a matter of preference. Couldn't find a date, but a search turned up Charles Jeffreys/Sidney Nelson as composers, by the way. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: GUEST,signing in Date: 29 Jul 07 - 05:17 PM excellent info here http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=40326&messages=26 Some of the same comparisons and opinions were given in that thread, some with additional information and links. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: The Sandman Date: 29 Jul 07 - 05:23 PM guest signing in,Iam talking about Nic Jones guitar arrangements.,they are his artistic work,. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Bill D Date: 29 Jul 07 - 05:34 PM and I should clarify that the ¾ time I prefer for R of A is a loose, flowing time, not a rigid 1,2,3,1,2,3...It pauses, dwells, moves...especially in the refrain. I had to run a bit in my head to realize it WAS ¾. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Kenny B (inactive) Date: 29 Jul 07 - 08:24 PM Being new to the folk scene after playing brass for many years i only knew the tune "Rose of Allendale" as the trio / verse and bass solo / Chorus of a Quick March called the Moray Firth and so when i learned the words I played it in 6/8 time. When i performed it at a well known folk club i was asked if it was based on the Corries version to which i replied "no its the brass band version" This excuse has been used many times when i use the "folk process" and do something slightly differntly from other "Folks" If anyone else uses tis excuse Ill know where they got it from. Kenny B |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 29 Jul 07 - 08:34 PM Interesting, Don: I don't recall ever hearing the Corries' arrangement of 'Rose' before. Unusually for folk revival performers, they use the tune as originally written by Sidney Nelson and widely printed in numerous popular song books from the mid-19th well into the 20th century; a little smoothed-out, but in the original 4/4 time and taken at much the pace (fairly brisk) of the original. The rather later (1987, I think?) Dubliners arrangement was sung by Sean Cannon, who I recall singing it long before he joined them. His phrasing and (particularly) the form of the melody as he sings it suggests that he was familiar with the Copper Family version, though the rhythm is rather smoothed out as compared to theirs (he will certainly have heard Nic Jones singing it, and that too may have had some influence). Most modern 'revival' recordings of the song (and almost all that you'll hear in live performance) clearly derive from the Coppers, though often at several removes; Mary Black's C&W-style rendering (pretty enough, but a little bland and MOR by comparison) often being an intermediate source. She learned several songs she recorded at that time from Nic Jones (some via her brother Shay rather than directly) and, as I've said in some at least of the earlier discussions here of this song, this is undoubtedly one such; as a close listening to the various examples will show. As to which of all these is 'better'; that's a subjective matter. I know which I prefer, but other people with different aesthetic approaches will have their own different ideas. On the general topic, I recall the Corries with some nostalgic affection (childhood memories, you know); the same goes for the Dubliners and the Spinners, for example; though the Corries at their best were, I feel, musically more adventurous. I still have a vinyl copy of 'Strings and Things', featuring the combolins. At their worst (and I'm afraid that I'd put 'Flower of Scotland' in that bracket) they were just naff; but that tends to go with the territory when you aim at a mass audience. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jul 07 - 09:51 PM Good, thoughtful responses, folks. Thanks! I shall ponder and be back. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Bill D Date: 29 Jul 07 - 10:25 PM If the Corries tune for the song is close to the original, it makes me remember that most folks prefer "Wild Mountain Thyme", largely from the McPeakes, to the original "Braes of Balquhidder", and that the American Civil War song "Faded Coat of Blue" was originally published with a fairly dull tune; the current, popular tune having been collected in Texas later. I, myself, prefer the 'arrangement' of the American song "Darlin' Corey" done by Burl Ives to the fast version so popular with Bluegrass bands...etc...etc. I also prefer a slower paced treatment of "Yellow on the Broom" than I have heard done in recorded versions. Sometimes a song just 'feels' to someone like it needs a different interpretation. My son sings "Grey Funnel Line" even slower than *I* care for, and a lot slower than most do it. I can live with most variations, but I still cringe at some folks who seem to totally lose the essence of a song to suit some personal whim or to achieve 'difference for the sake of difference'. ...and *smile*...you do too- just maybe not the same ones. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Kenny B (inactive) Date: 30 Jul 07 - 01:17 AM C'est la vie Say the old folks - Chuck Berry or Bob Seeger take your pick? "Smile also" |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Jim Lad Date: 30 Jul 07 - 02:51 AM During the Sixties, Corrie Folk Trio with Paddie Bell mirrored their performances with those of The Clancy Brothers & Tommy Makem. They sang in fake Irish accents which, as it happens, was the way most of us did. The Rose of Allandale, as sung by them, was simply the way that the song was sung at that time. I still remember being pulled up at a party for singing with a Scottish accent. Mary Black's version was later featured on a compilation album "Green Velvet" I think (the first song on it was "When You Were Sweet Sixteen") and was at that time a brand new approach to the song. I enjoy both versions. During the Seventies, The Corries who were by now down to two members, Roy Williamson & Ronnie Browne, armed with Roy's "Flower of Scotland, completely re-invented themselves and along with that, Scottish folk music. Given the two choices which were available to us at that time (Irish or Highland) it was the right move at the right time and their music filled a huge void. Those of us of who were of Irish stock and those of Highland Stock or who spoke Gaelic were well catered to but there were many Scots who did not fit either of those categories and it would seem, had no songs to sing. As one person alluded, Roy was a perfectionist as is Ronnie and passionate about his music. Using much the same technique as The Beatles, new instruments were added for almost every song. They even designed instruments themselves and seemed to master them effortlessly. The one sad thing in all of this is that they re-introduced the bodhran to Scots. (Something that we had exported to America for a joke. We really didn't want them back) That you hadn't heard of The Corries is understandable. Mudcatters frequently mention "Household Names" and I have to admit to having heard very few of them but here's a thing... I can tell you that just by looking at the names of Scotland's most popular folksingers of today and listening to a little of what they do, had it not been for The Corries, most of them would have fallen into the "No songs to sing" category and few of you would ever have heard of them. "Loch Tay Boat Song. Not one of Roy's finest. The most blatant error is his mispronunciation of "Ben Lawers". Not "Lawyers". Other than that... almost as good as meself! |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Dave Hanson Date: 30 Jul 07 - 03:53 AM It's folk music, you can do it how you like and it's OK. My own favourite version is the one Nic Jones recorded with that wonderful group ' Bandoggs ' so Nics guitar chords are not an issue. eric |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Big Al Whittle Date: 30 Jul 07 - 12:24 PM They deserve credit as well for bringing folkmusic to the television audience - into peoples houses. How ever they did it - they succeded. No mean feat. I wish someone would do it now. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Jim Lad Date: 30 Jul 07 - 12:56 PM Do it yourself, WeeLittleDrummerus! |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Folkiedave Date: 30 Jul 07 - 01:33 PM Somewhere I have their song book. They did local halls - and packed them out. I saw them at Galashiels Volunteer Hall and they were great. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: BB Date: 30 Jul 07 - 02:59 PM I first heard the Corries in '66/7 at the Ballad & Blues Club in Swindon (which club, incidentally, was packed to the rafters every Sunday night, and had a very broad booking policy - fantastic club!) I was a very enthusiastic but woefully ignorant relative newcomer to folk music back then, and soaked up everything, although not totally uncritically. The Corries, to me, were wonderful - consummate musicians, good singers, not as nationalistic as perhaps they appeared to be later, and charming people. I'll never forget them explaining that, if they felt a song needed a particular instrument to accompany it, they learnt the instrument if necessary. That was why they invented the combolins mentioned above, so that they would have less instruments to carry round with them - all that happened was that they ended up carrying them as well as all the others! It certainly made me think in later years about what instrument would sound right for a certain song, just as Roy Harris made me think about whether certain songs needed any accompaniment at all. I haven't listened to the Corries for a number of years now, not having got round to transferring the several albums I have onto CD, but I suspect I would still very much enjoy what I have of theirs, commercial/popular as it may sound. That doesn't have to mean it's bad. Barbara |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: GUEST,joules Date: 30 Jul 07 - 03:11 PM |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Jim Lad Date: 30 Jul 07 - 05:09 PM "I haven't listened to the Corries for a number of years now, not having got round to transferring the several albums I have onto CD." Ah yes, I know that feeling. Every time I miss Mass, I've got one excuse or another. Come back to the fold, BB. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Don Firth Date: 30 Jul 07 - 05:52 PM Perhaps my selections of Corries' performances that I linked to above may have created the impression that their renditions all have the same style, but that's not a really fair sampling of what they do. For example (and here, I do the bodhrans are justified), try THIS. Makes me want to draw my claymore and run screaming into battle! Or this bit of goofery: CLICKY. They do have their own characteristic sound (the same can be said for any singer or group), but there's plenty of variety there, too. As far as R. of A. is concerned, I tried to run down Nic Jones's performance of it on the internet, but all I've come up with so far is a brief snippet that doesn't give a real idea of what he does with it. I am familiar with Mary Black's, and although I like some of the stuff she does, that's one that just slide by me. So far, I tend to favor something similar to The Dubliners' rendition. But I'll keep listening and experimenting. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Big Al Whittle Date: 30 Jul 07 - 06:58 PM one maiden form withstood the storm I always think that sounds like an advert for trainer bras |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Bill D Date: 30 Jul 07 - 10:32 PM you DO? I hesitate to ask why. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Songster Bob Date: 30 Jul 07 - 11:52 PM Hmmm... the Corries' version is faster than the 3/4 time one? It doesn't seem that way to me. Listen closely to the pace of the words, and it's about the same speed, just the guitar beat is faster. I mean it probably takes as long to sing it in 3/4 (or 6/8) as in 4/4, but the guitar strums have to come faster. As for which version is best, I have to say that I love it in the three-beat version, whether it's 3/4 or a slow 6/8 (you could even do it in a jazz 12, if you had to really 'trick it out' -- God help us). In any case I love the song as it's usually done these days. There's something incredibly strong about the opening notes of the chorus, and it always makes me cry (I can't even sing along). There are songs that do that for me, and this is one of 'em. I thought the Corries' version vitiated every atom of emotion in the song. Sorry for my opinion, but that's how I see it. It might as well have been Celtic bluegrass. Songbob |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: GUEST,Eddie B Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:08 AM Thanks, Jim Lad. Your comments reflect my own memories of the Corries, and I'm glad someone has finally remembered Paddie Bell. Apart from pointing to the exquisite political/sentimental marriage of Roy's 'Flower of Scotland', let me say that as a Dubliner who knew Luke and Ronnie well, I'm sure that the current Dubliners lineup would deplore any comparison between themselves and the Corries. Both ensembles did so much for the 'respectablisation' of folk song that we will remain forever in their debt. fraternally EB |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: GUEST,DonMeixner Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:17 AM As I have stated before, I am a Corries Fan Boy Geek. I find their performances to be universally good. Their choice of material was good. And even when the performance wasn't the absolute best they had ever done it was usually better than most any body else's. They were my intro to trad British Isles music When The Trio and Paddy Bell split this left Ronnie Browne was a Harmonica player and a fairly remarkable voice. Roy Williamson was a fine musician and a "unique" voice. The best all round was Bill Smith with a solid voice and a good guitar style. They stayed together for one more album them Bill left. For the Corries to continue Ronnie had to learn to play guitar and a little banjo almost overnight. That Roy and Ronnie's voices blended so amazingly well was just good fortune. The Corries became a vocals driven band with what is really minimal instrumentation ( Some albums were over produced to be sure) with two guitars, or a guitar and harmonica, or any of the many other strings, whistles, pipes, and concertinas Roy was fluent with. But it was the voices that carried the band, not the instruments. Roy's writing skills and power with other instruments became more good fortune. As to the Rose of Allendale, I've heard several people do it better and a great many do it worse. Sean Cannon is probably the best. Don |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Jim Lad Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:36 AM "Sean Cannon is probably the best." Well that may be because I haven't tried it yet! snicker Interesting comment about The Dubliners, there. I always thought that The Dubliners were to The Clancy's what The Rolling Stones were to the Beatles. "The Bad Boys" you might say. Both the Corries and The Dubliners early albums were pretty raw as far as production & musicianship goes. However, both groups managed to evolve in both of those areas to produce the quality of work that such a huge fan base deserved. We have better tools on our lap tops than they had to work with in studios, back then. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: GUEST,DonMeixner Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:51 AM The Dubs had Barney McKenna and Luke Kelly. Nobody else on the planet can say that or come close. I really liked the Clancy's but again they were a vocal driven band. The Dubs had it both ways, Barney and Luke (and Ronnie Drew). And you can down load a sample of Pro Tools for free pretty much and have more power than the Beatles when they did Sgt. Pepper. Don |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Jim Lad Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:02 AM Interestingly enough, it was Brian Epstein & The Beatles who came up with Multi-tracking, the building block of most of today's recordings. I'll agree with you on the Barney & Ronnie statements but respectfully disagree on the subject of Luke Kelly. I don't think that he ever got the respect which is so often lavished upon him today. Stan Rogers falls into the same category in this regard. My opinion for what it's worth. As for "Rose of Allandale", while I do like both The Corries' & Mary Black's versions equally, I must admit that the song itself, kind of passes me by too. You either get it or you don't. I suppose & I don't. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: The Sandman Date: 31 Jul 07 - 04:12 AM Nic Jones recoreded it on a Bandoggs lp,The Other two surviving members of the group are Pete And Chris Coe,both and if contacted may be able to direct you towards a vinyl lp, NicJones lives in York, England,and he too may have vinyl or recordings available. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: BB Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:49 PM "The Corries became a vocals driven band with what is really minimal instrumentation ( Some albums were over produced to be sure) with two guitars, or a guitar and harmonica, or any of the many other strings, whistles, pipes, and concertinas Roy was fluent with. But it was the voices that carried the band, not the instruments." Indeed. The instrumentation was minimal, although they had an enormous number of instruments to choose from. But the song was the important thing, and they used what was best suited to get the words of the song over to an audience. That was what earned my respect way back then, and still does. Barbara |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Don Firth Date: 31 Jul 07 - 03:45 PM "I thought the Corries' version vitiated every atom of emotion in the song." I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. It was the emotion, particularly in the first verse and chorus, that grabbed my attention. The Corries' YouTube rendition of R. of A. is only one performance, and under specific circumstances. When they do the song in other situations, they may do it quite differently. Technically the same (same notes, same rhythm), but with a somewhat different emotional coloration. They are performing on television (TV cameras are visible here and there) with an enthusiastic studio audience. I notice that Roy, singing the lead, starts off at a fairly moderate tempo (but too fast to please some, I'm sure), but with the emotional content right up front. That's when I perked up my ears. But as the song develops, he does a sort of "Rossini Overture" thing and gradually speeds up as the song goes along. I think what's happening here is that he is getting caught up with the audience response and is losing the emotional thread of the song, especially when Ronnie invites the audience to join in on the choruses. By the time they hit the repeat of the last chorus, it is moving with considerable momentum and verve, and the sentiment in the song has simply taken a second place to simple enthusiasm of the moment. Granted, not a particularly great performance emotion-wise. But—I've seen this same thing happen in many live performances, by very well known individuals and groups. It would be interesting to hear The Corries' recorded performance of R. of A. and see if it isn't different in that respect. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: DonMeixner Date: 31 Jul 07 - 04:10 PM I agree with Barbara. I think they got a hell of a lot of music and musical dynamics out of two voices and two instruments. Guitars capoed at the seventh fret against guitars with a wide open fret board to create fully realized chords across both instruments. A banduria played repeated melody or lead lines against a guitar. Harmonica and guitars. Or entire songs against the drones of Small Pipes. Maybe not virtuoso instrumentation skills but I think virtuoso stage performance and arranging skill. Listen to Ye Jacobites By Name from The Lyceum LP and hear a song grow and expand based entirely on rising volume and dynamic structure, not on increased speed. Ronnie did subtle little vocal dances In songs like Hot Ashphalt and the Jolly Begger because it was his stronger instrument. Two voices, two instruments. Great stuff. Don |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: The Sandman Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:02 PM I thought the 1975,Killicrankie was a gem for lots of different reasons. I find them variable Sometimes Tasteful,occasionally not. I am sure they did a lot of good for scottish music,as did the Mcalmans. |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: Don Firth Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:36 PM I really like the combolins. Most impressive instruments. Here's a rundown on them: CLICKY #1. But apparently, they're one-of-a-kind (they're different from each other). They're using them to accompany Jock o'Hazeldean and The Loch Tay Boat Song that I linked to in the first post. Picture on one of their album covers: CLICKY #2 There's an instrument I first heard on a CD I picked up recently: an 11-string guitar. The CD is "Eleven-String Baroque," with Göran Söllscher, classic guitarist. The 11-string guitar is set up like a baroque lute, but it has the sound of a modern classic guitar. When Söllscher dips down into the bass, that sucker really rumbles! This isn't Söllscher, but this is what the instrument looks like: CLICKY #3. Here is the guitar in action: CLICKY #4. This is Göran Söllscher. In addition to playing some heavy-duty classical stuff on one of these, you could also do some dandy accompaniment work. I am overcome with lust. I covet! Severe GAS attack! But these guitars were built by Georg Bolin of Sweden. Unfortunately, the late Georg Bolin. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: GUEST,DonMeixner Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:52 PM They are used on a number of YouTube Videos. Don |
Subject: RE: The Rose of Allandale & The Corries (??) From: GUEST Date: 05 Aug 07 - 10:50 AM refresh |
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