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John Brune FolkSong collector

The Sandman 05 Aug 07 - 02:29 PM
GUEST 05 Aug 07 - 02:42 PM
The Sandman 05 Aug 07 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,Jim Carroll 05 Aug 07 - 02:54 PM
The Sandman 05 Aug 07 - 03:07 PM
Malcolm Douglas 05 Aug 07 - 04:16 PM
tijuanatime 05 Aug 07 - 04:20 PM
RoyH (Burl) 05 Aug 07 - 04:22 PM
Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive) 05 Aug 07 - 04:27 PM
curmudgeon 05 Aug 07 - 04:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Aug 07 - 04:42 PM
GUEST,Jim Carroll 06 Aug 07 - 03:51 AM
Folkiedave 06 Aug 07 - 04:47 AM
The Sandman 06 Aug 07 - 05:42 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 06 Aug 07 - 08:06 AM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Aug 07 - 04:11 PM
GUEST,Jim Carroll 06 Aug 07 - 04:52 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Aug 07 - 05:11 PM
The Sandman 06 Aug 07 - 05:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Aug 07 - 06:10 PM
GUEST 07 Aug 07 - 04:13 AM
GUEST,Ewan McVicar 07 Aug 07 - 04:21 AM
The Sandman 07 Aug 07 - 04:26 AM
The Sandman 07 Aug 07 - 05:39 AM
Folkiedave 07 Aug 07 - 06:46 AM
The Sandman 07 Aug 07 - 08:04 AM
GUEST 07 Aug 07 - 03:11 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Aug 07 - 04:00 PM
GUEST,Ewan McVicar 07 Aug 07 - 04:24 PM
The Sandman 07 Aug 07 - 04:25 PM
The Sandman 07 Aug 07 - 04:35 PM
GUEST 07 Aug 07 - 06:24 PM
GUEST,effsee, sans cookie 07 Aug 07 - 06:30 PM
Malcolm Douglas 07 Aug 07 - 08:32 PM
GUEST,Jim Carroll 08 Aug 07 - 02:05 AM
The Sandman 08 Aug 07 - 04:06 AM
The Sandman 08 Aug 07 - 06:39 AM
GUEST,Jim Carroll 08 Aug 07 - 01:44 PM
The Sandman 08 Aug 07 - 02:07 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Aug 07 - 05:43 PM
The Sandman 09 Aug 07 - 07:07 PM
GUEST,Guest WOCKO 18 Feb 12 - 11:50 AM
The Sandman 07 Dec 15 - 04:19 PM
GUEST,Mike Yates 08 Dec 15 - 02:40 AM
The Sandman 08 Dec 15 - 07:47 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Dec 15 - 07:56 AM
GUEST,# 08 Dec 15 - 08:59 AM
The Sandman 08 Dec 15 - 10:06 AM
GUEST,Ebor Fiddler 08 Dec 15 - 07:17 PM
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Subject: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 02:29 PM

Can anyone give me information about this folk song collector.,was he also a writer of science fiction,and did he live near South Petherton,in England


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 02:42 PM

John Brune was the arsehole who professed to be interested in Travellers - and did some collecting from them, but deliberately attempted to sabotage the first and most important radio programme about them,(the Radio Ballad, The Travelling People). He was partly successful as he managed to remove Sheila Stewart from the programme.
More information is to be found from Bob Pegg's article on Sheila Stewart on Living Tradition webpage and my letter published in the following edition
Jim Carroll
    Please remember to use a consistent name when you post. Messages with the "from" space blank, risk being deleted.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 02:52 PM

Jim,can you tell me which songs he collected from travellers,do you also know whether he was a sci fi writer.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 02:54 PM

Sorry Cap'n - dont know,
He did issue a book of his own songs once
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 03:07 PM

have just read the article in living tradition,couldnt find your letter.
I Think Ewan Maccoll acted incorrectly in interrupting a performer,and telling him to sing songs from Austria,The correct thing to do would have been to wait until people were leaving the club and then had a quiet word of explanation about the clubs policies.
If anybody interrupted me while singing a song,and tried to tell me what to sing,Iwould take strong exception to it.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 04:16 PM

John A Brune was Jewish, originally from Austria; he came here as a refugee just before the War, I gather, and certainly lived in South London somehere at one time. He died in April 2001; there is a brief obit at http://www.mustrad.org.uk/news22.htm

Sheila Stewart's account of his run-in with Ewan McColl: http://www.folkmusic.net/htmfiles/inart599.htm

The Roving Songster volume 1 (actually there never was a second volume) contained a mix of Brune's own songs, a few by others (Belle Stewart's 'Berryfields of Blair', for example) and traditional pieces. It was published by Gillian Cook of Collet's record shop in 1965. He also wrote Resonant Rubbish (EFDSS, 1974): how to make basic musical instruments out of junk, from what I recall.

He recorded songs from a number of Travellers; some of these are listed in the Roud Folk Song Index, which you can search for yourself at http://library.efdss.org/

He also did the layout work for the original edition of Marrow Bones, though Frank Purslow told me that Peter Kennedy also had a hand in that. The results weren't terribly good.

Beyond that, I know nothing about him; certainly not whether he also wrote sci-fi. There must be at least a few people round here who knew him, though.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: tijuanatime
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 04:20 PM

I think the sci-fi writer you're thinking of is John Brunner, a completely different person as far as I am aware


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 04:22 PM

It was John Brunner wwho ran the South Petherton festival. He was a folkie, and a sci=fi writer. Burl


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 04:27 PM

There was a UK sci fi writer called John BRUNNER. Here's a link: John Brunner

Cheers

Nigel


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: curmudgeon
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 04:30 PM

And at least one anti-nuke song of Brunner's was included in the MacColl-Seeger anthology, "Songs For the Sixties." - Tom


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 04:42 PM

John Brunner wrote a few songs too, notably "The H-bombs Thunder", which for some reason doesn't come up under that name anyway in the Digital Tradition, but does on this Digital Tradition Mirror. Tune of Miner's Lifeguard, of course. But not to be confused with John Brune.

John Brune - I knew him years back in the Sixties, via Cecil Sharp House and a spin-off club round the corner at The York and Albany pub. A quirky chap with a good sense of humour and a flexible atitude towards song collecting, (probably) adding in his own verses to, for example, Spanish Ladies and claiming he'd collected them. He was good company.

As for that story in the link, to blame John Brune for that seems a bit thick. Ewan MacColl was a great songwriter and singer, and we owe an enormous debt to him - but he could be extraordinarily arrogant and petty when he chose to be, and this comes across as a prime example.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 03:51 AM

Cap'n,
The story of MacColl interrupting Brune's singing was another of those doing the rounds of the revival and is totally unsubstantiated.
It was club policy that guest singers be encouraged to sing songs from their own national backgrounds, but in the twenty years I was associated with MacColl (attending the Singers Club virtually every week) or through questioning people who knew him far longer than I did, I have never been able to find a single case of him interrupting a singer or of insisting that they sing anything - it wasn't the way he, or any club resident behaved on stage.
The policy was adopted because, as Alan Lomax pointed out, in the early days of the revival there was a great danger of the clubs being swamped by not only American material and accents, but also it was quite a regular occurrence to hear a singer sing a song say, in German, Russian, Yiddish, Polish, Mandarin Chinese.... you name it. Lomax, Lloyd, MacColl, Seeger and the rest felt that the best way to open up the British repertoire was to have a policy which was aimed in that direction. As far as I can see - it worked.
The story about the 'travellers' songs that Brune supplied went as follows: (It is often told as an anti-MacColl story by people who didn't like him, so I have no reason to doubt its veracity) was:
Coming to the end of the preparation for "The Travelling People" MacColl and Parker decided it would be a good idea to try and fnd songs that were specifically Traveller compositions, (we found enough of these among the Irish Travellers) so they put out an appeal for such.
Brune responded with a recording of 'an old English Travelling woman' singing 'Traveller' songs; these recordings were of Brune singing his own songs in a funny voice.
The production team decided that these were good enough to make the point that Travellers were composers as well as singers and musicians, so one of the songs was given to Sheila Stewart to sing for the programme. When it was found to be a fake it was withdrawn. Had it been used as a 'Traveller's own' song it would have undermined the authenticity of the whole programme. God knows, the Travellers had (and have) enough enemies who would have jumped at the chance to point the finger and cry 'fake'.
For many of us, 'The Travelling People' put Travellers on the map and was the reason people like myself became involved with them. The support they got in the sixties, particularly the mass demonstrations at Brownhills after the death of three Traveller children, was largely due to people having heard the programme.
As far as I'm concerned Brune was a vicious prick who summed up much of the vicious prickism surrounding MacColl.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 04:47 AM

Can I add that according to Peggy the policy was decided by a committee of the club - not a decision of Seeger/MacColl's - and that it was NEVER that you sang in your own language - but that you sang in a language you were familiar with or indeed spoke with fluency.

And indeed as Jim points out - it was in part instrumental in opening up the repertoire.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 05:42 AM

Thanks, everybody.
I remember playing South Petherton folk club, in the 1980s and briefly meeting John Brunner,the name sounded similiar,so apologies for my confusion.
Jim,when one reads an article in Living Tradition,and the author is a songwriter like Bob Pegg,its not unreasonable to conclude that the facts given are true.
I agree,the Travelling People was a very important radio programme.
probably More important Than the singers club policy,was the booking of traditional singers such as Fred Jordan, Harry Cox, Bob Roberts,Willie Scott at folk festivals such as Sidmouth, Whitby,Fylde, Redcar, Loughborough. and at folk clubs throughout the country.
in my opinion telling people what to sing never works,
although I understand the reason for the singers club policy.,the singers club was only one club,and was not that important,there were undoubtedly more people attending the above mentioned folk festivals than the singers club.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 08:06 AM

Some people appear to be really, really desperate to cling on to this myth that MacColl 'told people what to sing'. Personally, I think it's a sign of some sort of deep-seated insecurity.

Just relax - he can't get you now - he's been dead for 18 years!!


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 04:11 PM

God knows the exact truth all these years later - but I can't see anything in either version to justify that kind of attack on John, any more than at Ewan. Why do some of us get off on throwing insults around? Whether at the big fish or the samll fry?


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 04:52 PM

McGrath,
I knew a number of the people concerned, including MacColl Seeger and Parker, who were the co-producers and John Faulkner, who performed on the programme. Arch anti-MacCollite Reg Hall (the one who blatantly lied on Folk Britannia about MacColl and Lloyd's 'policy of setting up folk ensembles') was a close friend and admirer of Brune; it was he who first told me the story as an example of MacColl's gullibility - I believed him, you may believe what you like.
While there are still people around who take great delight in dancing on MacColl's grave eighteen years after his death I feel perfectly justified in setting the record straight - you may call it mud-slinging if you wish.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 05:11 PM

Dancing on people's graves isn't something we should indulge in, that's true enough.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 05:51 PM

no one on this thread has indulged in dancing on Maccolls grave.
Jim Carroll,Bob Peggand living tradition say one thing,you say another.
actually I find the thought of John Brune singing in falsetto and not being detected amusing.
he did in fact own up to what he did,and the end product the radio ballad about the Travellers was still excellent.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 06:10 PM

I couldn't reall;y detect any significant difference between the supposed facts in the two versions, leaving aside the pretty irrelevant and peripheral business about "song policy" at the club.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:13 AM

Cap'n,
"I find the thought of John Brune singing in falsetto and not being detected amusing".
I wonder if you find equally amusing the idea of three Traveller children being burned to death during an unauthorised eviction by a Midlands council.
This was the type of thing that was taking place around the time the Travelling People was made and it was incidents like this that MacColl, Parker and Seeger were attempting to draw attention to.
The Radio Ballad was the first time Travellers were given a voice to air their grievances to any extent and it was the cause of many of us becoming involved in their cause; in my case it was Councillor Harry Watton's "Exterminate the impossibles statement" at the end of the programme.
If you believe that John Brune's stunt would not have called into question the accuracy of the Travellers situation I wonder how you come to that conclusion, but perhaps having a laugh at MacColl's expense is more important than the welfare of a group of 'outsiders'.
As McGrath of Harlow points out, there is no basic difference between Pegg's description and mine.
Perhaps we should take this discussion off line so as not to embarrass you again!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:21 AM

I admired Ewan MacColl greatly, and still celebrate his achievements whenever I get the chance. I found John Brune good and polite company, though one song he sang to me from his collecting seemed far too outre to be true.
If he managed to create a group of songs that were not so suspicious that they were accepted as authentically 'traveller' - whatever that may be - then that's interesting. It would be extremely irritating and frustrating to be on the other end of such a hoax, I hate being fooled, myself.
But MacColl put a lot of his own songs into the Radio Ballads, a couple of which I have heard presented in recent years as "authentic traveller songs". If I'd had the chance, I'd at least have been tempted to try and smuggle a song of my own in, for the crack and the challenge.
The Singers Club may not have been fierce about who could sing what and how, but certainly the message that it was came to Glasgow, and seemed accepted in London in the few months I sang around clubs there, to the point I went to the Singers Club once, but was too nervous of something or other to ask to sing there.
I know lots of swear words, but never understand how using them in this kind of discussion is helpful to anyone.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:26 AM

I am not embarrassed,.the point is that Brune owned up to his deception,the radio ballad was broadcast and as most people would agree was an excellent programme that did alot of good.
If Brune hadnt owned up it would have been a different matter.,Thats my opinion and I am entitled to it.
the policy of the singers club is mentioned in Bob Peggs article to which Jim Carroll directed me.
it is pointless talking about what would have happened if Brune hadnt owned up,hypothetical,because he did own up.,and no harm was done.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 05:39 AM

JIM,If anyone is dancing on anyones grave,you are doing that to John Brune.
I have a book of his called The Roving Songster[vol 1],it includes a song by Sydney Carter,twelve traditional songs[all good songs],and some of his own songs, none of which I am inspired to learn ,but are interesting,IF anyone gets achance to buy this book second hand they should do so.
John Brunes introduction, his views on folk traditions and the folk revival are also worth reading,I am pleased to own this book,it is a well used addition to my library.was there ever a volume two.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 06:46 AM

Peggy Seeger tells the story of how the debate was started by her and how the policy came about.

http://www.folkmusic.net/htmfiles/edtxt39.htm


Frankly I believe Peggy who was there at the time, as opposed to Pegg
who wasn't.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 08:04 AM

I too felt too intimidated,to sing at the singers club,this was partly due to seeing Ewan and Peggy at Farningham folk club about 1970.
during the break I bought an LP from them ,which was one of Peggy and Mike Seeger,Peggy was talking to someone else,so I approached Ewan,when he saw the lp,he said with sarcasm,oh you like that sort of thing do you,.I was Nineteen years old,and felt like I was nine and being treated as if I still was at school.
By contrast Dartford, Gravesend, Farningham and most of the london clubs were most welcomomg, so I thought I wont bother with the Singers Club.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 03:11 PM

Cap'n
Brune 'confessed' virtually on the eve of the programme being broadcast.
He succeeded in getting Sheila Stewart withdrawn from the programme - plus or minus.
Ewan,
I have outlined why the song was wanted for the programme. If it had been included as a 'genuine' travellers song it would have undermined the programme and given the knockers the excuse to end the series.
There were a number of people at the Beeb who did not approve of the Radio Ballads and thought that working people's voices should have been spoken by "proper actors". The Travelling People very nearly didn't go on because MacColl and Parker refused to remove Harry Watton's "exterminate the impossibles" statement. Parker always believed that this was the reason why there were no more Radio Ballads.   
MacColl never made any claim for his songs being traditional - others have, but not him.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:00 PM

My copy of The Roving Songster doesn't have that intro, and it doesn't have any indication which of the songs are John Brune's. I think this is one though, to lighten the tone:

The Last Drop in the Bottle

Tis the last drop in the bottle
And I'm left blooming well alone.
All my lovely companions
Without me to the pub have gone.
Sic transit gloria mundi
Mundi gloria it makes me sick
How the world is all cupboard lovers
Slow giving but taking quick.

I'll not leave thee, thou lone one
To evaporate away
There'll be not a drop left in this bottle
By the end of this dreary day
I will mix thee, rum, with honey,
Demerara sugar, tea and lemon juice
And tonight we'll be right chummy
Me and my last drop of booze.


Try singing it to the tune of The Last Rose of Summer...


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:24 PM

What I remember of the song John sang me follows. If there is more of it in his book [or any other] I would be delighted.

Chorus
Rats and snails and ringworm pies, headgehogs and birds of paradise x2

Bits of verse

....... and broke his bloody head sir
....... and now he's lying dead sir

....
....

It's a wee peewee in a peewee tree
That sings 'Pee wee pee wee ee'

Ewan McVicar


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:25 PM

mcgrath,thankyou,you must have volume two.
the contents of my book are as follows
on folk traditions and the folk revival page 7
The Travelling Man. page 12
The Roving Songster page 13
TheRovingTinker page14
Settling down in a cottage page17
The Moss of Burreldale
TheBerryfields of Blair
TheTattieTime
Its ahard life being a traveller
The Moving on song.
The Paupers song
A song for outcasts
and another 20 songs


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:35 PM

Jim, both Joe Heaney and Belle Stewart were good singers.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 06:24 PM

Ewan, I think the song you're after is "Spiders, slugs and ringworm Pie"....searching memory banks...The Black Country Four, maybe?


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,effsee, sans cookie
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 06:30 PM

Sorry, that last one was me away from home.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 08:32 PM

My understanding was that volume 2 never appeared. Volume 1 was published in 1965, as I've already said; but there was an earlier printing of c.39 pages privately issued in 1959 or 1960; perhaps McGrath has a copy of that. Apparently only 75 copies were made; Brune's middle name is, incidentally, revealed as Anatole.

My copy (1965) appears to be the same as Dick's, at any rate; though a previous owner has for some reason drawn a moustache on the cover picture.

I've wondered occasionally what the fake song was that John Brune concocted, and whether Sheila remembers any of it.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 02:05 AM

Malcolm,
I once asked her and she didn't, though I believe at least one singer learned it at the time and sang it round the clubs to spite MacColl.
Cap'n
"Joe Heaney and Belle Stewart were good singers",
So was Maria Callas - your point? It doesn't answer the question.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 04:06 AM

thanks, Malcolm.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 06:39 AM

Jim Carroll,it must have been over 40 years ago?


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 01:44 PM

Cap'n
So what, sabotage is sabotage.
I have to say, what with Kennedy and Brune, you have some strange heroes.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 02:07 PM

Jim,I don,t have heroes.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 05:43 PM

Malcolm's right - my copy is the 1959 version, which I got from John at the time. So only another 74 copies. I'll look after it more carefully.

It's largely Burl Ives type standards, but there are some less familiar ones. Here's one I've never come across elsewhere - it might be one of John's?:

Hollands Gin
This city hold ten thousand souls
Not one my lasting friend
Five thousand women, so I'm told,
Not one to hold my hand.

I roamed around the City Streets
To seek myself a lass,
They all received me with a frown
So now I'm for a glass.

The only truelove that I have
Lives at the wayside Inn,
She wears an evening dress of glass,
Her name is Hollands Gin

And when they go to bury me
I'll still be of good cheer,
Tho' on my gravestone be the words:
"He cannot drink down here."


Here is a rather blurry page from the the back of the book which gives the tune for this (Among others.)


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 07:07 PM

thanks MCGRATH,I like it.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,Guest WOCKO
Date: 18 Feb 12 - 11:50 AM

John and his father ran a printshop some where near Holborn, the place stank of the Old Holborn Tobacco factory nearby.It was above the Chiappa fairground organ repairers which would occasionally start playing to brighten our day. I met John at a club some where, probably the York and Albion and I started working in his printshop.There was a second volume of Marrowbones, it was hand written in a notebook, My landlady was going to type out a copy for John to make plates from and print but she lost the book. The company was Edwards and Brune.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 04:19 PM

refresh.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 02:40 AM

I don't know if the following has been printed elsewhere on Mudcat or not. Sometime around 1963/64, when I was working at C# House,
John would come into the Sound Library on a regular basis. Sometime around this date he published an article in the Society's magazine "English Dance & Song". The article purported to be based on an interview that John recorded with an elderly resident of Pewsey in Wiltshire. The old man told John about a tradition of making musical clay "pipes" in the village. Years later John told me that he had made the whole thing up "as a joke".


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 07:47 AM

In MyOpinion Hardly deserving of the description used by Jim Carroll, What comes across to me is that some song collectors are humourless.


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 07:56 AM

"Hardly deserving of the description used by Jim Carroll"
Not a description Dick - an accurate account of his actions and an assesment of the enormous damage that might have been done to an important pionering radio programme
Please tell me you support his behaviour and think it would have done no harm - that would reassure me that my opinion of you is the correct one (not that I need any assurance)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,#
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 08:59 AM

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/THE-ROVING-SONGSTER-Vol-1-Songs-Ballads-John-A-Brune-PB-1965-Photographs-Rare-/161816746905

That may interest someone. (That said, I feel somewhat like the ref who drops the puck for a faceoff in a high-voltage game.)


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 10:06 AM

you called him an arsehole, I do not agree, I like his book, I am clearly able to take a more balanced view than you, but what is new?
Clearly the article in the EFDSS journal did no harm, The other instance could have done harm, but that does not mean you have the right to call a dead person an arsehole, you are a hypocrite, you rant on and accuse people of corpse kicking if there is any mild criticism of Ewan, yet you kick JohnBrunes corpse and call him an arsehole.HYPOCRITE.
you have also insulted Bob Davenport, myself and many others . please go away


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Subject: RE: John Brune FolkSong collector
From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler
Date: 08 Dec 15 - 07:17 PM

I still enjoy my copy of "Roving Songster!, though some of the songs I have never liked as I have always thought them too "intelletchool". But even St Ewan (God bless him) wrote a good few duffs along with his marvellous ones.


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Mudcat time: 23 October 8:47 PM EDT

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