BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!

Subject: BS: IMPORTANT DEBATE: CHOCOLATE!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 11:09 AM

Sides square off in chocolate fight

By ANDREW BRIDGES, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 46 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - Like many battles, this one's being fought block by block. Victory, for whoever prevails, will be sweet. Or bitter — or even bittersweet.

It all depends on how you like your chocolate.

At stake is the very definition of chocolate, and whether cheaper vegetable oils can be substituted for what many consider the very quintessence of every block, bar and square of chocolate: cocoa butter.

In Europe, the cocoa butter vs. vegetable oil fight took 30 years to resolve. In the United States, it's been less than a year since the first volley. Hundreds of chocoholics have joined the fray, the outcome of which could in turn affect the livelihoods of millions of cocoa farmers in Africa and South America.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070807/ap_on_re_us/chocolate_fat_spat

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: MMario
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 11:34 AM

?? The cocoa butter comes with the rest of the chocolate - what do they want to do, sell the cocoa butter to makeup companies and put crisco in our chocolate?

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 11:48 AM

Say it ain't so!!!

It would be like replacing caviar with snail eggs.. they may look the same and be cheaper to produce, but they just wouldn't taste the same.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Grab
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 01:00 PM

The strangest thing is Hershey's saying they're opposed to vegetable fats in chocolate. Say what?! Since when did Hershey's sell chocolate? At best, their stuff is "chocolate flavoured" - and not very convincingly at that.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 01:53 PM

In every damn category on earth that's worth discussing, there are groups that wish to broaden the definition so they can stuff THEIR adulterated version/product in under a well-known name!

Look at Scotch, beer, 'organic', 'natural foods', folk music, ....and when did Chop Suey and Pizza become Chinese & Italian?

It almost a losing battle...all you can do is read the label..(if they still USE a label).. and taste it, and decide if it suits you.

There will always be some good stuff, but it will get harder & harder to sort it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 02:36 PM

Soft drinks made with pure cane sugar have a cleaner taste than the crap they sell today but corn blends are cheaper. So why is the price of a can of soda 25xs higher?

They will lower the quality and maintain or raise the price. There will always be a few purists producing the real thing. Even now I never touch a Hershey's or Nestles product. It's not chocolate. When I crave chocolate I go with Dove in a fix and REAL chocolates from a shop for company. But I am not a chocoholic and could live my entire life without it.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 03:36 PM

Anyone ever eaten snail eggs?

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: MMario
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 03:45 PM

not on purpose - but yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 03:47 PM

Well, you're not supposed to eat 5 pounds of it at a sitting.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 03:55 PM

All Hershey chocolate is made from chocolate (from cacao), cocoa butter (the edible fat from cacao), milk and sugar.
The same is true for nearly all good chocolate on the market, regardless of manufacturer.
The problem here is the cocoa butter. It contains natural anti-oxidants (good) but the fat content, 2/3 saturated, adds on the calories. Using vegetable oils may reduce saturates, but at the expense of taste.
Moderate intake will hurt no one! Every one needs some fat in their diet.

Milk chocolate is 40% chocolate; some brands (mostly European) have 70%.

Pure chocolate is bitter. The unsweetened chocolate used in baking lacks sugar, but has the cocoa butter. The better brands have cocoa butter rather than vegetable oils or cocoanut oil.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:02 PM

Cadbury makes good chocolate.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:17 PM

We should take the slave trade into account too when choosing. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 07:44 PM

I'll take Cadbury over Hershey, but both are good. Locally we have bars by Bernard Callebaut, even smoother, but little difference in formula except that Callebaut adds a little vanilla.

mg, which slaves do you want to see starve first? Boycotts often have that effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 08:32 PM

Whose 'truffles' are the best? The best I ever had were in San Francisco, but those from Callebaut here in Alberta are a close second.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 10:38 PM

Hershey's and Nestles have a higher melt temp than better chocolates related I believe to the amount of cocoa butter. Also the chocolate is grainy on the tongue. Nasty stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 10:50 PM

Was going to start a thread about the ubiquitous Soy crap in everything.

Lecethin is made from Soy. I try to avoid this emuilsifer in chocolate. It DOES destroy the real taste - I prefer my chocie a bit on the bitter side. and using cane sugar rather than corn syrup.

ALDI sell Real Dutch Chocolate - Their house Brand is one of the real best no soy in the world.

Can just tolerate Club Dark, but, sorry, Dove makes me puke...

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 01:10 AM

Cadburys OWN the Hersheys label. They changed the recipe to make it more like European chocolate, and the populace of America complained so Cadbury's changed it back!

Sins... "When I crave chocolate I go with Dove in a fix" - This is very confusing to us Brits, as Dove is a fabulous moisturising bath and beauty product.

I suspect the only way to get good, "healthy" chocolate is to buy Fair Trade or Green & Blacks (also owned by Cadbury, but they've promised not to change anything about it).

Cadbury have in the past, tried to become more ethical whereas Nestle have an extremely poor humanitarian record (they convinced a generation of African women to use their powdered babymilk by saying it was healthier. The infant mortality rate immediately soared because instead of good clean breast milk, mothers were feeding their infants with formula made with the only water they could get - dirty, infected and stale).

I can't see Cadbury mentioned in the debate at all... I'm hoping this is because they realise what side their bread is buttered and know what the Great Unwashed chocolate eaters want isn't cheap chocolate, but GOOD chocolate!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 10:54 PM

I think it's more the other way around, Liz. Hershey owns the right to make & sell some Cadbury Schweppes' products in the US. But it's just a license agreement.

But Cadbury also makes Maynard's Wine Gums.
"I'm a roller-coaster, turning `round... You look me up when I'm upside down..."

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 12:10 AM

In Canada, Cadbury chocolate is made at the Gladstone Factory (Cadbury Adams Canada) in Toronto.
In taste, I prefer Cadbury to Hershey, but the basic formulation is the same. Vanilla and treatment during manufacture are the main differences. Cadbury seems a little softer, but differences in emulsification may be the difference.
Cadbury Delight is made with much less sugar, and is preferred by some.
Cadbury claims to have a secret ingredient- it could be a different emulsifier.

Droste's is a Dutch chocolate seen in Canada, but it is not a big seller. Dutch chocolate has been treated with an alkalizing agent which gives the chocolate a different flavor and increases solubility but destroys anti-oxidants.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 10:05 AM

Thread drift...so why can't I get Schwepp's Bitter Lemon in the US anymore?!?

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 04:49 PM

Perhaps you were the sole customer.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: autolycus
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 06:25 PM

The best answer is organic fair trade dark chocolate. Google pesticides and cocoa to discover why.




       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 10:35 PM

A man once explained to me that "the best sex you've ever had" is the sex you are having right then-- that when you are having it, it seems like the best ever. Chocolate is like that. The best chocolate I can have is the chocolate in my mouth at the time I opine on it.

Unless it's BAD chocolate.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 09:31 PM

But is it folk music???

Please define!

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 10:43 PM

'Taint folk music, but all the folk agree. "The Chocolate Song," by Buddy Wasisname and the other fellers.

Just a couple of verses, to keep it below the belt.

2
When you feel like you're hung over but you didn't drink last night
Your eyes look like a road map and your underwear feels tight
Gravity seems multiplied and your organs are on strike
You're in sudden death overtime and the wheels are off your bike

You need some chocolate, soft creamy chocolate
Some chocolate ice cream, and chocolate mousse
Some chocolate cheesecake, Bavarian chocolate
Bring on the chocolate, you need a boost

4
They say it gives us pimples, it's addictive and it stains
It makes us fat and hyper, and clogs up all our veins
It puts migranes in our noggins and it's worse than cigarettes
But all those things are easier than having a chocolate fit.

8
And if life should get too heavy and we decide to end it all
We won't do it with a pistol, drugs or alcohol
We'll just take a thousand dollars to a nice dessert cafe
Eat a dump truck load of chocolate and do ourselves away.

Chocolate Song
-----------------------------------
MY fix- A container of Starbucks bold, sprinkled liberally with powdered chocolate, and one of their dark chocolate candy bars.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: rich-joy
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 05:24 AM

and how about this :

Cocoa extract may be an effective natural alternative to fluoride in toothpaste
Medical Research News - Published: Sunday, 20-May-2007

For a healthy smile brush between meals, floss regularly and eat plenty of chocolate.
According to Tulane University doctoral candidate Arman Sadeghpour, an extract of cocoa powder that occurs naturally in chocolates, teas, and other products might be an effective natural alternative to fluoride in toothpaste. In fact, his research revealed that the cocoa extract was even more effective than fluoride in fighting cavities.

The extract, a white crystalline powder whose chemical makeup is similar to caffeine, helps harden teeth enamel, making users less susceptible to tooth decay. The cocoa extract could offer the first major innovation to commercial toothpaste since manufacturers began adding fluoride to toothpaste in 1914.

The extract has been proven effective in the animal model, but it will probably be another two to four years before the product is approved for human use and available for sale, Sadeghpour says. But he has already created a prototype of peppermint flavored toothpaste with the cavity-fighting cocoa extract added, and his doctoral thesis research compared the extract side by side to fluoride on the enamel surface of human teeth.

Sadeghpour's research group included scientists from Tulane, the University of New Orleans, and Louisiana State University's School of Dentistry.

Sadeghpour will earn his PhD in bioinformatics and a master's in computer science from Tulane University on May 19.

http://www.tulane.edu


hmmmm .... but I think I've stuffed up on the blickey ...

Cheers, R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 12:31 PM

Cocoa butter IS a vegetable fat.

Orthodox Jews wait for Passover to stock up on soda. The reason is that only cane sugar is considered Kosher for Passover and it is only produced for this time of year by the major manufacturers.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: autolycus
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 05:01 PM

Bad = loads of pesticides + loads of unrefined sugar + milk



       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 11:10 PM

Cocoa butter- who said it wasn't vegetable? Some argue against cocoa butter because it is 2/3 saturates, as previously noted.

Unrefined sugar is partially refined of course, it is processed beyond the pressed sap, but the minerals and some other impurities are not removed. Nothing better on cereal than cane demarara- and milk.
Refined sugar is almost pure sucrose.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Aug 07 - 12:23 AM

Cluin - my apologies - Cadbury own the right to sell Hersheys in the UK, Hersheys are licensed to sell Cadbury products in the US and I understand they are now in the purple Cadbury labels. This review here explains a lot better.

I can't say I agree with the reviewer about the Bourneville chocolate though.. I've tasted much sweeter dark chocolate from the US and in Italy. It's called 'the original dark chocolate' because it was the first commercially available in the UK where the company is based.

Cadbury owns a substantial amount of subsidiary companies and is the largest confectionery company in the world. Just because it's not chocolate, doesn't mean it's not Cadbury!

NestlePurina also make dog food. Need I say more?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: autolycus
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 01:36 AM

Aplogies. For "unrefined sugar". read "refined sugar". Ho-hum.




       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: The PA
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 03:37 AM

Green and Blacks Organic choc is the only one we buy.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: autolycus
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 01:00 PM

Not Fair Trade, alas.




    Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: ClaireBear
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 09:55 AM

No, Bat Goddess is NOT the only Bitter Lemon consumer in the U.S.!

Linn, you've struck fear into my heart. I shall stop by Beverages & More on the way home and see if Bitter Lemon is still on the shelves. Gin wouldn't be the same without it.

I'll let you know what I find.

BTW, do you remember Schweppes Bitter Orange?

Cheers,
Claire

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Cluin
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 01:32 PM

Is that what you clean the kitchen countertops with?

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: ClaireBear
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 01:42 PM

Not dignifying that with an answer, Cluin. Pass the gin, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: pattyClink
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 07:33 PM

Q - if you have to buy mass-market truffles, you want to get your hands on Lindt's, the dark. Not the hideous high-cocoa bittersweet bar, but the truffles bars.

Now, if Hershey/Mars/whoever isn't already adding vegetable fats: why do    run-of-the-mill chocolate bars taste so inferior? There's like a tastelessness and waxiness to the chocolate or chocolate coating. Is it indeed wax? How much are they allowed to use?

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 08:21 PM

"isn't already adding vegetable fats: why do    run-of-the-mill chocolate bars taste so inferior? There's like a tastelessness and waxiness to the chocolate or chocolate coating. Is it indeed wax"

Lecethin - a soy derivative, strikes again...

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: GUEST,Keinstein
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 05:29 AM

Women prefer chocolate to sex!

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 07:20 AM

Well who wouldn't?

It doesn't matter if chocolate goes soft.

Chocolate will never complain if you try a different variety once in a while.

You can have chocolate 5 times a day and no-one judges you.

You can have two or more chocolate bars at once.

You can have chocolate in public and not get arrested.

Licking up the sticky bits is a lot tastier and doesn't get you stared at.

Chocolate never got anyone pregnant.

and finally...

You will still respect it in the morning.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 04:56 PM

We have a Belgian chocolatier here, Bernard Callebaut, whose shop make excellent truffles, but I give the nod to the truffles from Ghirardelli in San Francisco (Personal choice, both are excellent quality).
Both sell online; Ghirardelli U. S. only, Callebaut in Canada and U. S.
I can't see much difference in Lindt vs. Cadbury chocolate bars, the Lindt is over-priced here in Canada.
Callebaut has an excellent dark chocolate; also bulk types and powder for cooking, whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 05:09 PM

Excellent chocolate cookies-
Chocolate Fantasy Cookies- be warned! this recipe calls for 1 pound Bernard Callebaut dark chocolate and 1 pound white chocolate.
http://www.bernardcallebaut.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=5102
Chocolate Fantasy Cookies

(White chocolate has no cocoa solids from the chocolate liquor)

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 08:47 PM

Men have been trading chocolate for sex for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 09:44 PM

Would you call that fair trade?

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 09:57 PM

I'd call it fairly trad.

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 01:33 AM

No difference between Lindt and Cadbury?? No difference?!!!!

That's like saying a Rolls Royce is just like a LandRover. After all, they both have wheels, an engine and a chassis...

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: autolycus
Date: 18 Aug 07 - 06:43 AM

Chocolate is better than sex for some of us bleokes.

it's always sweet; never gets a headache; doesn't require buttering-up; we can be as mistaken, foolish, error-prone, inadequate as we like; it doesn't have to be dated, waited for, impeccably-dressed for; faultlessly-mannered for; we can't say the wrong thing at the wrong time, the wrong thing at the right time, the right thing at the wrong time; we can't make it feel inadequate, criticised, humiliated, (even tho' you can't 'make' another feel ........whatever); and the chocolate won't make us change and then not be happy having wrought the change.


only joking, princesses.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Important Debate: Chocolate!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Aug 07 - 07:44 AM

Yeah... but both make the sheets sticky.

LTS