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Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc / -'Oss Sharrybang

JWB 15 Aug 07 - 11:09 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 16 Aug 07 - 04:44 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 16 Aug 07 - 05:00 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 16 Aug 07 - 05:04 AM
GUEST 16 Aug 07 - 05:36 AM
Bob Bolton 16 Aug 07 - 05:39 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 16 Aug 07 - 08:18 AM
JWB 16 Aug 07 - 02:09 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 16 Aug 07 - 02:22 PM
JWB 16 Aug 07 - 10:46 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 17 Aug 07 - 03:13 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 17 Aug 07 - 04:06 AM
Jim Dixon 20 Aug 07 - 06:54 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 27 Aug 07 - 04:44 AM
JWB 27 Aug 07 - 10:24 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 28 Aug 07 - 03:08 PM
GUEST,Louise 29 Aug 07 - 01:30 PM
JWB 29 Aug 07 - 01:46 PM
MGM·Lion 30 Oct 11 - 09:48 AM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc
From: JWB
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 11:09 PM

A friend has asked me if I knew a song about a four horse charabanc. I don't, but I immediately turned to the Digitrad and Forum search, which turned up numerous threads which mention charabancs, and even a song about a trip in one in the early 20th century. However, none of them signify, since here's what my friend is looking for:

"Do you by any chance know a song called The Four Horse Charabanc? It's British, early 19th century. I have some of the words, but they're really mixed up: (Oh will I am, Oh will I am, I've been to the sea side. I've seen a four horse charabanc, says I, I'll take a ride....)"

All the charabancs mentioned in the threads I found appear to be automobiles (something like the minivan of the 1920s).

Can you help with the older song?

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 04:44 AM

This sounds like the one the late Ron Barnett at Herga used to sing. Sadly I don't know the words, but someone there might have them.

There are two recording on Folktrax that feature the song: FTX-210 - THE FOUR HORSE CHARA' - John Foreman and FTX-332 - LUCKY LUCKHURST.

Sorry I can't help with the lyrics.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 05:00 AM

There's a copy of the sheet music in the Bodleian: The four 'oss sharrybang : the costermonger's song / written, composed and sung by Corney Grain in his new musical sketch "The diary of a tramp"

The call id is: Harding Mus. R 1514

I think the link I have is session-temporary, so use the search at OLIS: OLIS- Press START, select Both Oxford OLIS and Bodleian Pre 1920 and seach for four horse to get it.



Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 05:04 AM

And it's printed in An Evening At The Music Hall (but I still can't find the lyrics!)

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 05:36 AM

G'day Jerry & Mick,

"... All the charabancs mentioned in the threads I found appear to be automobiles (something like the minivan of the 1920s)
..."

Char-à-banc(s) is just French for "a carriage with seat(s)". The Oxford Dictionary defines it as "a long and light vehicle with transverse seats looking forwards" and cites it from 1832.

Presumably, such a light vehicle (filled with day-tripping tourists) could be pulled around level areas with a four-horse team. However, keep in mind that early 20th century motor vehicles were often called by the 'rated horsepower' of their engines ... so that a charabanc with a 4-horsepower engine could well be called a "four-horse charabanc".

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 05:39 AM

G'dang...

Sorry about that ... I didn't notice that some bottom-feeder in the Bayou had nibbled away my cookie!

Regard(les)s,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 08:18 AM

Bob - I didn't put the date above, the song was c1885 - I think it really was horses!

Mick


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Subject: Lyr Add: FOUR-HORSE CHARABANC
From: JWB
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 02:09 PM

My friend has shared more lyrics with me. Does this honk any horns?

FOUR HORSE CHARIOT
> Oh will I am, Oh will I am,
> I've been to the sea side.
> I've seen a four horse Charabanc
> Say's I, "I'll take a ride".
>
> The fare was eighteen pence I know,
> Twas a lot of money for me.
> But you can't do a thing on the cheap will I am,
> When you're in society
> No you can't do a thing on the cheap will I am,
> When you're in society.
>
> There were eleven ole ladies all setting in a row,
> Each sucking on a peppermint drop.
> And each had a bottle of something,
> Like ole my ginger pop.
>
> Says one old gal, says she to me,
> "Would you like to have a drop".
> Says I "You're a nice ole cup-o-tea",
> Say she, "Oh go along".
> Says I "You're a nice ole cup-o-tea",
> Say she, "Oh go along".
>
> There was one ole lady in a great big hat,
> with a feather of heavenly blue,
> Says she, "Young man I'm a thinking
> that this hat would 'bout suit you".
> Says she, "Young man Im a thinking
> that this hat would bout suit you".
>
> So we both changed hats and how
> we laughed and cried and never mind.
> High toned music is a little melancholy,
> But it's always so refoined.
> High toned music is a little melancholy,
> But it's always so refoined.

It strikes me as a bit muddled. I haven't checked this set of lyrics against the sheet music linked above by Mick; perhaps that will help these words fall into place better.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 02:22 PM

From memory it's certainly close to the version Ron used to sing (though I think he sang something more like That they called ginger pop, but I might be wrong about that).

will I am is of course Will-i-am - the Bodleian index record gave an alternative title to the song as Oh, William, Oh, William

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc
From: JWB
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 10:46 PM

Hmmm, this seems to be a tough one. No luck yet in getting ahold of the lyrics as written. My friend wrote down those posted above from the singing of a family member, and she's trying to find what the original words are.

Keep at 'Catters -- I know you'll come through!

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 03:13 AM

Jerry

I've emailed the person who inherited Ron Barnett's notebooks to see if the words are there. (He's actually mudcatter zorg, but I haven't seen him post for a long time, so I didn't PM him).

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 04:06 AM

I think there might be another verse too about going home. I seem to remember that Ron finished the song with a cry of (something like):

"With a heigh-heigh-heigh and clear the way
Aboard that charabanc.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 06:54 PM

Here's the complete catalog information from http://library.ox.ac.uk/

Author: Grain, Corney, 1844-1895.
Title: The four 'oss sharrybang : the costermonger's song / written, composed and sung by Corney Grain in his new musical sketch "The diary of a tramp".
Publisher: London : J. Bath, [ca. 1885]
Description: 1 score (7 p.) ; 36 cm.
Notes: Song for voice and piano.
First line: Oh! William, oh! William.
First line of chorus: Then it's oh! I sai.
Subjects: Popular music -- To 1901.
Horse-drawn vehicles -- Songs and music.
Social classes -- Songs and music.
Alternate Title: Four horse charàbanc
Oh William oh William
Then it's oh I sai [sic]
The diary of a tramp.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc / -'Oss Sharrybang
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 04:44 AM

I've just had an email in from zorg. He's just come back from holiday and will have a look through Ron Barnett's notebooks to see if the words are there.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc / -'Oss Sharrybang
From: JWB
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 10:24 PM

Thanks, Mick,

I'm back from holiday myself. I await the fruits of his research.

Jerry


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE FOUR 'OSS SHARRYBANG (Corney Grain)
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 03:08 PM

George has just emailed me the version from Ron Barnett's note book, which I post below. The original source wasn't included, but I'll see if there was one given.

Mick



FOUR HORSE SHARRY- BANG

Now what do you think, now what do you think,
I've been to the seaside.
See's I a four horse sharry-bang
Says I, "I'll have a ride
Now the fare was eighteen pence I know'
That's a lot of money to me
But you can't do things on the cheap now can you
When you're in Society
No you can't do things on the cheap now can you
When you're in society

That company was very nice
Not haughty like nor proud
They was all so haffable and nice
And never nufink loud
Then listen to me and I'll tell you straight
Cos I always speaks me mind
What I liked about that company was
They was all of them so refined.
What I liked about that company was
They was all of them so refined.

There was ten old ladies
All a-sittin' in a row
A-sucking of peppermint drops
And each of them had a bottle of somefink
They called 'omemade ginger-pop
There was fine young gents
With their arms round the waists
Of the fine young women wot sang
Hi-tiddly hi-ty the whole of the way
Aboard that sharry-bang.
Hi-tiddly hi-ty the whole of the way
Aboard that sharry-bang.

There was one young gent with a concertina
Gawd how he could play
You should 'ave heard his 'Ome Sweet 'Ome'
Lor' it made me cry
Then he played a bit of the 'Funeral March'
It was sad, but never mind
That high class music is a little melancholy
But it always so refined.
That high class music is a little melancholy
But it always so refined.

There was one old lady,
Says to me, "Young man would you like to try a drop"
She says, "'Tis wery comforting
This 'omemade ginger-pop"
She say, "It's only the peppermint that makes it taste so strong
I says, "You nice old cup of tea",
She says, "Oh go along"
I says, "You nice old cup of tea",
She says, "Oh go along"

She'd a big plush hat
Wiv a large sun-flower
And a fevver of heavenly blue
She says "Young man, I'm thinking
That my hat would just suit you".
So we both changed hats
And how they larfed and chaffed but never mind
What I liked about that company was
They was all of 'em so refined
What I liked about that company was
They was all of 'em so refined

And it's Oh I say
We was that gay
You should have heard us
How we sang
Wiv a Hi! Hi! Hi!
Get out of the way
On a four horse sharry-bang


Source: Notebook of Ron Barnett, late of Herga Folk Club.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc / -'Oss Sharryba
From: GUEST,Louise
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 01:30 PM

THANKS!! I'm the person who wanted the words to the Four Horse Charabanc. I'll be able to take them to our family reunion now, where my 80+ year old mother and her siblings will be totally thrilled to be able to sing this song again. They first learned it as kids, and had lost many of the words. We teach it to the rest of our relatives, who will also be there.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc / -'Oss Sharrybang
From: JWB
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 01:46 PM

Mick,

Absolutely champion! Thanks so much. Louise got what she was looking for, and I've got a new song that has a concertina in it (for a collection I've got going).

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Four Horse Charabanc / -'Oss Sharrybang
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 09:48 AM

As well as Cosmotheka, John Foreman sang this on his excellent LP of music-hall songs, The 'Ouses In Between, Reality Records RY1004, 1966.

Don't know where you would get hold of a copy at this time of day; but you are sure as hell not having mine!

~Michael~


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