Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true

Subject: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: Joybell
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 03:38 AM

I just met a train-driver/tour-guide with a great personal style and an interesting collection of stories relating to the area in which he works. I asked him about the sources of his material. He wanted me to understand that he was always quite clear about the parts of his "routine" were fact and which parts were - what I would call - "tall tales" or "folktales". He told me that he'd learned much of it from the older driver with whom he worked -- but that he also picked up some local folktales from pubs and from other "old railway men". He was adamant that the stories did not belong to him. That they belonged to all the railway men and to all of us. Talking to him was a deeply moving experience. I told him my special friends and I regard the old songs we sing this way too.

I started talking to other tour-guides. One told me he got his stories and a lot of interesting information from his passengers -- the ones who were over 60 - mostly.

A thought struck me ----
Tour-guides are passing tales around by word of mouth.
Think about that a bit!!!

Along with young children and singers of bawdy songs they may be in a small group of people still involved in the oral transmission of material.

I'd like to study on this a bit further. In the meantime I was wondering about making connections between tour-guide tales from different places. I was wondering about common threads. Many Mudcatters are, or have, been rangers and guides. Any one care to share folktales/jokes associated with tour-guideing?
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: pattyClink
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 05:03 PM

What a great concept.   I know we've had some great park tour guides who added a lot to the experience, some from sheer knowledge and some from sheer personality and good humor.    Don't recall any particular tales, though.

Sounds like we should all keep a digital recorder handy on trips, not only to catch new songs, but in case we run across one of these story 'sources'.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 06:24 PM

Kendall tells stuff like that - but in his case, people call them "lies." Kendall has raised the common lie to an art form - and Art Thieme is not far behind him. Watch out for them two fellers.
[grin]
-Joe Offer-

Subject: LYR ADD: Tophouse Lament & Billy the Bus-Sam Samps
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 06:47 PM

Oh, boy, Joy! IF you get a chance get over to Stewart Island and look up Mudcatter (now kind of scarce) "Billy the Bus." Has he got stories!! Here's a little bit from one website I found and, of course, you can find his postings here, too. From this page which also has a midi and dots for the second song below:

TOPHOUSE LAMENT
Sam Sampson 1974

    In the 1970s, the Licencing Commission took away the licences of many rough but friendly old country pubs, and transferred the licences to urban booze barns. The Tophouse Hotel at Lake Roto-iti, was one victim of this purge.

    "The Tophouse," says Sam, "Held the longest running liquor licence in the country, when it was closed. I did actually carry a card in the Land Rover This accident caused by the Licencing Commission closing Tophose Hotel."

    The hotel is now used as a farm guesthouse.

   1. There is strife in the Province of Nelson
      Round the shores of Lake Roto-iti
      They've closed down the Pub up at Tophouse
      T'was too scruffy for them don't you see
      If I want a quick beer or a whisky
      It's a drive to the Wairau for me.

          Wrap me up with the bits of my Rover,
          And on my headstone with my name,
          Say, "He pranged driving home from the Boozer,
          The Commission's entirely to blame."

   2. They said that our pub was too scungy,
      For people to drink there a sin,
      They think we should only be happy,
      In a DB lounge drinking pink gin.
      When the pressure inside us has built up,
      To the point where wee feel we must bust,
      They say we must use stainless troughs now,
      Not just go out and use a fence post.

   3. The place must be built out of plastic,
      Formica and chromium too.
      An old wooden bar's unhygienic,
      And beer out of kegs just won't do,
      A bar that seats six is quite stupid,
      It should take five hundred or more,
      With plush padded seats and a carpet,
      And a patented lock on the door.

   4. The passing of Tophouse was something,
      I'm bound I shall never forget.
      We used buckets to drink from - not glasses.
      We all got skunk-drunk you can bet.
      Then from ten o'clock to the small hours,
      Old Ray turned the grog on for free.
      And by five o'clock in the morning,
      There was hardly a bloke there could see.

   5. I suppose they will take the pub's licence,
      To give to some new city barn,
      Where you're jammed in so tight and the noise is so loud,
      You have trouble in hearing a yarn.
      It's the same now all over the nation,
      As the old country pubs are closed down,
      The beer barons' business keeps booming,
      As the licences shift into town.

Tune

    Sam sung the Tophouse Lament to the tune of "Wakamarina"
    Or you could use the tune of "The Dying Stockman/Tarpaulin Jacket/Rosin The Bow"

The Mangamahu Hotel

    In the sedate 1940s, the Mangamahu hotel was my home for the first five years of my life.
    But it was more like the old Tophouse when Merv Addenbrooke described it in its more rowdy 1905 heyday.
    In 1974, the Mangamahu hotel suffered the same fate as the Tophouse. See the third verse of Superman. (JA)

BILLY THE BUS

    Sam Sampson now (in 2000) lives south of Invercargill on Stewart Island, where he is the local bus driver. He sings this song to tourists as he drives them around the island. He sings it to the tune of In the Tararua Ranges (Away, away, with billy and pack...) "I throw verses out as we pass the victims," says Sam. "And I get my passengers join in the chorus."

       Chorus:
       Away, away in Billy the Bus,
       Over the hills always making a fuss,
       Billy coughs and farts,
       Sam cheeks the tarts
       Round the roads of Rakiura.

   1.

      Now Arkright used to run the shop,
      Didn't make much, but it wasn't a flop.
      Now, what a shock, he is quarrying rock
      For the roads of Stewart Island.

   2. There's "Sinky" in the South Roads ute,
      Getting on now, but he works like a beaut.
      He paints marker poles, and fills the potholes,
      In the roads of Rakiura.

   3. Watch it, here comes Mrs Tait,
      Going slow, and she's running late.
      She drives by feel, can't see over the wheel,
      To the roads of Rakiura.

   4. Here comes "Spragg" in the rubbish truck,
      Headmaster once, now to change his luck,
      He serves in the Bar, and scatters junk far
      Round the roads of Rakiura.

   5. Here comes Jack with a load of pots,
      Travelling at a rate of knots,
      He sells the juice, that lets us loose
      Round the roads of Rakiura.

   6. That one there is "Powerhouse Pete",
      You seldom see him on his feet,
      He'll be down a hole, or right up the pole,
      By the roads of Rakiura.

   7. Now, "Father Bernard" is our Cop,
      Not enough work to make him hop,
      He sits in his shack, and turns his back,
      To the roads of Rakiura.

   8. Well, there you go folks, the tour is done,
      Hope you learned something and had some fun.
      But, think as you do - "all my lies were true"
      Of the roads of Rakiura.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: Joybell
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 07:11 PM

pattyClink, Thank you. I'm glad someone else picked up on this idea. I'm quite excited about it.
Yes Joe, I thought about Art and several other Mudcat friends. I'm aware that many perfomers of songs use folk-tales, personal reflections, (and jokes) in a similar way. I do myself. In the case of the tour-guides their stories are more regionally based, though -- and that's an interesting difference I believe.

Here are a few tales I remember from a childhood tour here in Victoria, Australia. And some from our recent tour in North Queensland.

TALL TALES/JOKES
1. "Over on the right, Ladies and Gentlemen, we have an experimental farm. The sheep are fed iron filings. That's where steel wool comes from."

2. "See that gate over there? (Points to a broken down old gate with no fence attached) This bloke stole that gate every time it was replaced. Finally they put him in jail and he took offence. (A fence)."

4. "On the right you'll see an instant waterfall. (Indicates a bare, sheer rock-face). You just add water."

LOCAL LEGENDS   
1. "Coming up on the left you'll see a long row of poplar trees. They lead nowhere. A young man planted them to line the driveway to the mansion he was having built for his lady. He loved her very, very much. Sadly, she died on the way over and he never got over her. The house was never built."
I've heard several variants of the story about the mansion built by a rich man for his lady. Often she dies young or they both do.

2. In three different limestone caves - (in Victoria, South Australia and in New Zealand) "This cave was discovered by a farmer who was looking for a lost cow." In each case someone asked about the cow and was told, "The cow was found safe and well."

Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 07:14 PM

Great photo of Sam and Billy the BUs HERE

And, here's what one online tour thingie said about Stewart Island:

To explore the land, go for a a ride with the biggest bull-shitter on the island, Sam Sampson. On "Billy The Bus" he'll regale you with tales of island life . . . and blithely tell you "All my lies are true". Been doing it for 20 years so it's a well-rehearsed routine. Ph: 03-219 1269 to book.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: Bee
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 08:10 PM

I followed a young tour guide in the Bavo(sp?) Kerk in Haarlem, Neth., and couldn't guess which of his tales were history - some certainly were - and which made up on the spot. I hold strong suspicions regarding the one he told about the large puddle of solidified copper on the stone floor, which had to do with one of the patrons buried under the floor (true) constantly sticking an arm up between the slabs, thus requiring the addition of a metal barrier. But it was a nicely told creepy story!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 08:31 PM

If you're not acquainted with Michigan's Mackinac Island, it's notable for allowing no motorized vehicles except for a fire truck or ambulance. There are quite a few horse drawn carriages. The island is also reknowned for Mackinac Island Fudge. The carriage-ride guides regularly note that the amount of horse manure produced on the island happens to correlate very closely with the weight of fudge marketed.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: Joybell
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 09:16 PM

Thank you all so much. A great start.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: Joe_F
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 11:59 PM

Do tales *about* tour guides count? I read once, somewhere, that a common question asked of park rangers at the Grand Canyon is "What tools did they use?". It seems that many tourists are under the impression that the Grand Canyon is a work of art, either dug out by natives for religious purposes, or commissioned by the New Deal to alleviate unemployment. (No question it would highly effective in either case.)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: johnross
Date: 18 Aug 07 - 01:22 AM

I've been a tour guide.

The things a guide has to remember are:

1) You are the expert, so the people taking the tour will believe everything you tell them. Everything. If somebody asks you a question and you don't know the answer, make something up.

2) Either find or invent stories about the things between the important stops on the tour. You have to keep talking as you move from Important Thing A to Important Thing B.

3) People love trivia and good stories. If you can point to something and say it's the oldest/biggest/first whatever, do it. If you can alter a common joke or folktale to fit the local scene, do it.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: Anne Lister
Date: 18 Aug 07 - 11:10 AM

My husband works as an actor/interpreter in a living history museum where it's always 1645. The actors are in costume, as the staff of the manor house while the owner is away. He also works freelance in various roles in different historical places.

You can imagine, therefore, that he has a lot of good stories about daft questions from members of the public as well as the stories he blends into his work. My favourite daft question so far was when they were showing the story of Guy Fawkes at the Tower of London. They were followed around by a crowd, as usual, and two of the crowd stayed back once it was all over in order to approach two of the actors. The question? "Say, do you know you're wearing tights?" We have had many a happy moment working out the best response to this question...

Best tour commentary I remember, however, was the skipper on a boat trip around the Isles of Scilly.
"Don't worry if we capsize. All you have to do is remember to hold your breath for about ten minutes and then we'll come right again."
and
"You'll notice the bird over there. That's a cormorant. What's the difference between a cormorant and a shag? Well, a cormorant has six feathers at the end of each wing and a shag has seven." - at this stage the sea was so rough it was impossible to even focus on the bird, let alone think of counting feathers!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 18 Aug 07 - 09:08 PM

Sun's going down here in Peru, so I don't know how long I'll be able to keep on writing. If I have to stop, I can always come back tomorrow, right?

The ten years I sang on steamboats I realized pretty quickly that a folksinger playing for the tourists wasn't terribly secure as a profession. They could easily trade in one singer for another. I also saw that my boss, Denny Trone (who did the running commentary during the trip) needed some time off to relax. S-l-o-w-l-y I started doing what he did---showing him I could do it and give him time to nap or whatever. It worked pretty well. After a while, it was me all the way. Great job security. I knew the route and made up the folklore along the way if I didn't know the history. Lies and tall tales worked overtime in my schtick.

At Cordova, Illinois I mentioned that in the day of wood burning steamboats this is where they always stopped to get wood from the locals for the boilers. If they wanted one cord of wood, the folks always cut two. If they wanted two, they cur three. If 3 were needed, four got cut. They were ALWAYS one cord over! So the town was named Cordova~

Then at the lock I'd always mention the birds taking moss from the lock walls to make their nests right in the lock gates. These birds, the Lock Moss Nesters, were quite fascinating to our riders.

But I'm sure I posted that and more here before in other threads.

Whoops, sun just went d...

(Art)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: GUEST,Art again
Date: 18 Aug 07 - 09:20 PM

And Mudcatter "Sian In Whales" heard mt tell the L.M.Nesters thing on my CD called The Older I Get The Better I Was (on Waterbug Records)---hint, hint, hint!! He took the story and actualkly told it around Loch Ness and on the Ness Canal that, of course, actually has a lock!!!! Later, he heard it being retold in a pub... and on and on.

That's the old oral tradition in a nutshell. Yep, I love it. And I'm proud too.

Arthur David Thieme

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: Joybell
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 06:43 PM

Art thank you. Also Tabster and johnross. I'll send this link to my new friend on the Savanahlander Railway.
I also have lots of "silly question/statement stories" -- like the one from Tabster's husband. Once while dressed as a Nymph, with True-Love as Pan we were asked, "Aren't your feet cold?"

I realize that I have my own store of tales connected to various places where I've worked as a singer. They're not as diverse as those used by tour-guides.

Here's one of mine:

I sang, weekly for seven years, in a seafood restuarant built out of an old marina, on Port Phillip Bay. It's a classy place and the rats, that inevitably live on the waterfront, were a constant source of worry for the owners. Guests liked to gaze out of the windows at the pelicans and swans, but the sight of a rat cavorting on the railing gave them the horrors. For my part I'm fond of rats -- but there you go. Anyway the owner was always using me as a distraction. "There's a rat outside the west window!" she'd whisper as she passed me. "Don't let them see it!". I never missed a beat, or a word, as I slipped from background music to in-your-face music-hall. Alternatively, if the rats were throwing one of their wild parties, with squeeks and mad dancing, I'd call attention to them. "So you've noticed our wonderful Native rats. Beautiful aren't they?" It was a bit of a risk. We don't have any salt-water Native rats -- but I'd have played the dimwit innocent if I'd been caught out.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 06:53 PM

I hope Ranger1 and BatGoddess stop in here with their tales of silly tourist questions and observations.

My favorite:
Tourist:
What time of year is the tide full? I come every summer and the tide is always out!
Ranger: ?????????????

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 07:08 PM

I heard a true one years ago on NPR. As I remember it:

A fellow was riding along on a mule, going down into the Grand Canyon on a tour being led by a park ranger. At one point his mule got upset over something, bucked him off and ran off down the trail. The ranger came over to the man to check him and was horrified to see he was left with only one leg. A leg, boot and all was still in the stirrups of the saddle as they watched the mule hightail it. The poor ranger was beside himself, trying to treat the fellow for shock, explaining how they would get an emergency crew to haul him out for treatment. About that time, the tourist finally got a word in edgewise to tell the ranger that his "spare" leg was up in his car. All anyone needed to do was go get it for him and he'd be right as rain, although with a few bruises!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 08:09 PM

I bet the ranger was stumped!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 09:50 PM

Art! Cellar!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: DonD
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 10:18 PM

I've done my share of tour guiding and everything I ever said was true and the product of great research, but somehow (maybe I was just too glib) everyone was sure I was making it up.

But the story that sticks in my mind happened on a trip where my wife and I were tourists on a bus in Ghent in Belgium. The guide was very learned in several languages and really impressive, but there was one woman who was determined to get her money's-worth. Whenever he'd finished describing some ancient building or cultural site and invited questions, she'd be sure to have one or to question his accuracy. After a lengthy accounting of the many Guild Houses across the canal from where the bus had stopped, he paused and inevitably 'she' piped up (as the rest of us groaned), "But what about that clock tower over there?" After a pregnant pause, the guide said, "That, Madame, is to the tell what time it is in Ghent!" The bus resounded with applause,cheers and laughter, and there were no more questions from that quarter for the rest of the tour.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Tour-guide tales. Tall & true
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 10:26 PM

Reenactors have tons of good stories. Here's one I heard from Plimoth Plantation:

The folks were stewing a chicken when a tourist came up and asked what they were doing. "Cooking" was the answer.
"What?"
"A seagull."
"I didn't know you could eat them. How do you know when they are done?"
"When the feathers float to the top."

Or something I actually heard and saw at the Ft. Ouiatinon "Feast of the Hunter's Moon" in Indiana:

A company of American Revolutionary War reenactors are mustered, standing in line. In front of me is a middle-aged guy and his wife, dressed as prototypical tourists, including his Hawaiian shirt.

The command was "Fix...BAYONETS!"
The man said to his wife, "Those aren't real bayonets, of course."
CLANKETY-CLANK, steel bayonets are fixed onto steel musket barrels.

"Return...BAYONETS!"
CLINKETY, and they are resheathed.

"Charge your firelocks!"
Tourist: "Those aren't real guns, dear."

"Prime your firelocks!"

"Take aim!"

"FIRE!"

BLAM! and smoke and flame burst from the locks and barrels.

The wife simply looked at her husband in amazement and, I suspect, a little questioning.