Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 11:03 AM

I did find myself falling into the trap of putting actions to the chorus of a song I was singing yesterday: it was a longish, rather wordy chorus which nobody knew, so it wasn't quite sign language but a visual aid to get the words. In hindsight, I probably looked rather silly!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 11:26 AM

Has anyone mentioned YMCA by the Village People?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 08:46 AM

All songs with actions and other methods of actually participating in folk music performances should be stamped out immediately

We can't have people actually enjoying themselves- folk music is far too important for that- I think all this joining in the chorus has to be rather suspect as well- people seem to like that too- I once saw someone smile at a folk club- disgraceful

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Acorn4
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM

I seriously think one should await the nursing home before joining in with The Birdie Song!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 06:04 AM

"Hands, knees and Boomps-a-Daisy....." At this point the participants bumped their backsides together. Very popular activity in the Music Hall era.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 02:34 AM

so are wegoing to have actions to the game of all fours?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 07:49 AM

There seems to be a sort of person who is always urging everyone else into clapping along etc. who is convinced that everyone else finds it enjoyable. Why should it be?

I don't dance as I seem to have no coordination below the knees (can't use hiking poles as I trip over them), don't ride a bike as I can't steer and make hand signals and don't clap along as it just makes my arms and hands sore.

And where did this "fun run" thing come from.

Robin:)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 07:03 AM

This is probably the grandest version of the idea ever attempted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inori_(Stockhausen)

video of a performance

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 06:03 AM

Nigel Parsons, I thought of "Head and shoulders, knees and toes" long ago, but I resisted. I see you didn't. [grin]
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 05:57 AM

Yep, those are the actions, Joe. I've know them since I was a student in the late sixties, learned when Imperial College rugby club invaded the Union Bar...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 05:53 AM

I'd do me back in these days if I tried doing the standing-up bit in the third part of Dingle Regatta, but begod I'd still try!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 05:37 AM

que?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,DrWord
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 03:05 PM

Re: thread title—I understand the (potential) annoyance ~ haven’t read the whole ‘07 > present thread. BUT, given music’s powerful mnemonic tentacles, it’s a grand way to teach/learn vocabulary in ASL or British Sign Language. While some lyrics are a challenge to the interpreter, other songs flow beautifully organically. Many folk appreciate the “choreography” of a well-executed interpretation. It is a specialized type of Sign Language interpreting—excuse the slight thread drift. My only suggestion: if you do use more than a “gesture” or two, try to find the ASL   Cajoling works better than coercion for audience participation:)
Yes, it’s hard to sign and play an instrument simultaneously and at the same time [redundancy courtesy Chet Atkins]
continue to play an instrument daily
Dennis [saw the back of your left hand with your right hand in manual letter W shape] = [Woody]

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 10:44 PM

I wonder if this Peter Murgatroyd performance is where Ed Silberman got his hand motions for "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMmKFUsQ75c

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,Mrr inside
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 10:14 PM

One of my nieces when very small used to call the gestures "instruments" - but these are an evolutionary holdover from before spoken language when we would have "sung" with our hands, then we developed spoken language and the gestures remained but simplified, like the telephone game.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 04:17 PM

Baby Shark doo doo doo doo doo. . .

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 05:18 AM

I was at a gathering of singers in Scotland last year- one singer started that fine old traditional song 'Twa Recruiting Sergeants' - this was accompanied by actions from the listeners to suit the words e.g.

'Over the mountains & over the main' was accompanied by pointing both arms Upwards to a point (mountains) and a level waving motion with both arms (the main) & so on!

It maybe wouldn't be appropriate to do this for many songs, but this is a pretty cheerful song- there was no coercion, it was all spontaneous and great fun

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 04:17 PM

Ray used the back of her guitar resting the face of it on her lap.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 02:37 PM

bit like making a protest by not standing for the national anthem/

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 02:24 PM

i just refuse to do them period.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 09:05 AM

Over 100 posts and no mention of "Heads, shoulders, knees and toes".
As the song goes on to mention "eyes and ears and mouth and nose" the actions definitely add to the song.
The actions are also a necessity if you sing multiple verses, as on the second verse you only come in on 'shoulders', and 'knees' in the third verse. As the number of lines sung gets fewer (and the tempo often increases) it is only by following the actions that you can keep pace with where the entries are going to be.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,jm bainbridge
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 05:38 AM

Steve, I did see Davy doing it several times & it involved elbow & side of the hand on a hard surface- can't remember exactly how, as I said earlier.
Only version I've heard apart from the one by Davy on the 'Festival at Blairgowrie LP on Topic is the audio one I found by Ray Fisher on YouTube. There is a clattering sound, which could be a drum of some sort or Ray tapping her guitar, or did she do it a la Davy Stewart.
As you said you'd seen Ray perform it several times (I never did) I was just curious HOW she did it- or was it someone else?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 02:11 PM

Obviously some years ago in folk clubs and as I said I don't know how Davy did it. I remember it involved mainly arm movements to represent the clacking machinery in the mill, and maybe a bit of slapping.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 01:29 PM

Yes Steve, I get the point about coercion- never a good idea with free- spirited folkies?

I did find Ray on Youtube doing it, but sound only- was it as Davy did it when you saw her? or was it another method?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 08:51 AM

Hi Jim,
Yes I never saw, Davy, do it but many times saw Ray Fisher do her interpretation. On the Blaxhall Ship video is a superb rendition of the Cobbler with all the actions, but the big point of difference here is the performer including actions (I've done it myself) and coercing the audience into taking part.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 08:42 AM

I haven't seen these actions- I thought it was a joke! Is it on youtube?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 05:45 AM

I think the Dark Island actions come from the Mod choral scene. The Lothian Gaelic Choir can do them in unison.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 05:14 AM

Don't think Ian MCLachlan was able to initiate actions to the tune while playing the accordion...

I'm wee aware of old Davy Stewart's version of 'I am a miller tae my trade' while simulating the sound of the mill wheel by using his hand & elbow to simulate the sound of the mill wheel- can't remember how he did it, or I might have a go sometime- very effective & entertaining- from a source singer & certainly not an 'annoying fad'.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 05:40 PM

Anybody got the actions for "The Dark Island"?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,Gallus Moll
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 05:07 PM

Many years ago, can't remember if at Girvan or Edinburgh or where - a folk festival session somewhere - a woman who by day is a teacher of hearing impaired youngsters, taught us all how to SIGN The Lampton Worm. My recollection is hazy, perhaps half signed while half sang? Then swapped over..? It was great fun, everyone really enjoyed the experience! The ultimate action and communication song.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 05:07 PM

Couldn't agree more Steve G.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 04:58 PM

Gesture in entertainment, particularly singing, has a long tradition behind it. 19th century comics and clowns like Grimaldi and Cowell made a living out of it. Most of the actual songs they sang were pretty dull things, but they made them into highly popular entertainment, by their antics and gestures, grimaces etc.

However coercing the audience into doing actions is somewhat naff, and should be confined to young children. it reminds me too much of all the theatrics in some church congregations.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 04:52 PM

Macintyre
Alice, who the fuck is Alice?
When the audience wants to participate, let them.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 04:44 PM

so sad , many of the contributors have pssed on,

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 03:15 PM

My Hat, It Has Three Corners
action song performed by Gondwana Voices, Australia’s national choir for treble singers aged 10-17.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 05:44 AM

What about 'Daphne Cochrane'- she's the one wha pits the lids on Robertson's marmalade...

accompanied by appropriate actions- it's folk music, and if the folk can't participate, where are we?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 02:30 PM

As long as we're all having fun - that's all that matters ... isn't it?

Trouble is, try as I might, I'm NOT having fun!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: RamblinStu
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 08:54 AM

A great song with actions to either play, or be in the audience, is the Australian classic "Gum trees"
A quantity of lubricating juice is sometimes required to find the more subtle elements of the actions but well worth the effort of learning

Childish? Naar
Fun? Certainly

Seek and find (I know it's a bit old know, but it is folk)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Betsy
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 08:41 AM

Can the 100th be classed as AN ANNOYING FAD ? - Point in case, it certainly seems to have kept you happy Leadfingers - you must have been lying in wait for my message 99 !!
Cheers

Betsy

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 07:58 AM

Whats the correct action for a 100th post ??

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Betsy
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 05:32 AM

There's a time and a place for everything.
I wouldn't clap or whatever during someone singing the Wild Rover .
Jeez, I clapped and banged over 40 years ago when it was relatively unknown . Time and circumstance Eh ?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: stallion
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 05:02 AM

I am intrigued by LtS's obscene actions to "Swing Low", When everyone is singing "Coming for to carry me home" Do you sing YES YES YES (in harmony of course)

now where did I put me mac

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 03:30 AM

Re the Pizza Hut/KFC/McDonalds song a few posts up: is this here Vocal Week at Augusta sponsored by 'The Guild of Purveyors of Crap Food of America'?

Or maybe childhood obesity isn't the same problem in the USA as it is here in Britain...

Cheers

Nigel

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 08:56 PM

I don't think anything should be forced. If the audience wants to sing, they'll sing -- especially if the performer has given them a good time already and they're "into" the thing.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: moongoddess
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 08:08 PM

Thanks, Liz...I like your song, too, especially the part about the banjo. I have so many friends that are banjo players that I will be able to sing this to them until the cows come home.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 07:25 PM

There's a folkie version of the Pizza hut song...

A mandolin, a mandolin (clutch imaginary mandolin to chest and play)
A little penny whistle (play imaginary penny whistle)
and a mandolin (clutch imaginary mandolin to chest and play)
A banjo, a banjo (stamp foot vigorously on ground as if stomping out a fire and wave fist energetically)
A little penny whistle and a mandolin

LTS

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 07:10 PM

I'm with Shimrod. Performers pushing action songs is right up there with performers trying to turn outdated pop music into folk songs.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: moongoddess
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 06:47 PM

I have recently returned from Vocal Week at Augusta where I learned a neat audience participation song for kids and adults.

Pizza Hut (form the shape of a house with your hands in front of you)
Pizza Hut ( make house)
Kentucky Fried Chicken (put your hands under your armpits and flap your arms)
And a Pizza Hut (make house)
MacDonald's (form two big arches, one with each hand, meeting in the middle of your body)
MacDonald's (make arches)
Kentucky Fried Chicken (flap arms)
And a Pizza Hut. (make house)

I think audience participation songs are neat. At least I get some exercise between drafts.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 09:27 AM

The next time I sing "Wild Rover" and I come to the line "No never no more" I'm going to shut up and stop singing. Maybe I'll change "play" to "sing."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Trevor
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 08:50 AM

Well for my part, I really enjoyed Keith Donnelly's "How I need you baby...." at a festival and I've shamelessly nicked it. The point is, it's got to be at the right time, with the right audience. Get it wrong and you come across as a prat, and the audience will use gestures of their own design.