Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 09:01 AM

Sounds to me like you folks need to chill & loosen up a bit - have some FUN!!

I don't get it why lots of you say you feel embarrassed? - why?

If you're some place to enjoy yourself - then go ahead!

The likes of the Spinners years ago & Keith Donnelly these days'd've died the death on stage if all'd been too 'embarrassed' to join in.

Life's too short not to act daft sometimes!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 09:14 AM

Don't care for the sort of action songs castigated here.

BUT, everybody in the audience loved it when a real square dance caller called a short seated square dance.

Russ (Permanent GUEST and old fart)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 09:19 AM

Mr Happy,

The key word is "sometimes". This 'songs with actions' thing is becoming far to frequent for my liking, and I also believe that it is a symptom of a general 'dumbing down' in folk clubs.

Oh yes, and I reserve the right to feel embarrassed whenever I like!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 09:33 AM

It's actually quite a skill making the finger in cheek 'pop' sound at the right time in the verse (the ring from her finger she instantly drew), without it sounding like a popgun version of the 1812 Overture.

Very hard to do with long fingernails or a mouth full of beer.

LTS

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 09:38 AM

..........so you can only be demonstrative on-line?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 09:39 AM

The Unicorn Song? How does that work?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 09:49 AM

I dunno, Liz. Both could be interesting and add a whole new dimension to a song.

But I'd rather just sing along (e.g., the chorus to "Barrett's Privateers") than do some sort of action. Unless it involves drinking, of course, and the singer buys the beer.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 10:14 AM

I also recall many years ago the Clancy Bros indulging in the 'annoying fad' of encouraging audience participation.

I guess it was more satisfying for them to play to live people rather than qa lot of dummies.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 10:48 AM

Sins, remember the Black Adder skit with the Mother Superior, was it(?), and her Unicorn...**bg**:

"Mother: Alas, the corruption of the world...

Sara: Yes, alas, Mother Superior.

Mother: I'm tired and weary. You may leave me now.

Sara: Very well.

Mother: Alas...

Sara: So presumably you won't be needing the unicorn tonight.

Mother: No, not tonight, Sara."

Stu, thanks for the link..hillarious!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 11:31 AM

Well I just loved the "action" version of "Twa Recruiting Sergeants" chorus as seen at Keith Festival this year.
Over the mountains (big swoop up and down forwards with both hands) and over the main (several gentler swoops of both hands)
Through Gibraltar (like first part of breast-stroke swimming)
Tae France (left hand indicate left) and Spain (right hand indicate right, as air stewards indicating emergency exits on plane)
Wi' a feather tae yer bunnet (2 fingers up behind R ear)
And the kilt aboon yer knee (double-handed lifting movement as if lifting kilt in front)
Enlist ma bonnie laddie and come awa' wi' me (pretend to march awa' while sitting)
And then there's "Wild mountain Thyme".........!
TB

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 12:07 PM

You should have been with me yesterday, when I had 80 fine professional educators all dancing and waving their arms and singing along at the top of their lungs to the lively old spiritual "Over My Head"! Couple of lawyers in the bunch as well.;~)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: HouseCat
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 12:08 PM

Woops, GUEST was me, lost my cookie.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 12:09 PM

I'm all in favor of audience participation on chorus songs. I, too, feel uncomfortable as an audience member if the performer is trying to cajole, ridicule, or coerce my participation.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: lady penelope
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 12:21 PM

I think to a large extent performers (be it at a gig or session) should be able to guage how well this kind of participation will go down, but there are always occasions when even the best get it completely wrong.

Any performer ridiculing the invited participation of an audience member deserves a smack in the mouth. That's just plain rude.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 12:47 PM

I am unaware of this new craze.
I have been on tour in England twice in the last year,and have been fortunate to avoid it,Though I had lots of good chorus participation,particuarly at the Wilsons Folk club,and at liverpool folk club.
does it mean that if I were singing the Three Butchers/Sportsmen,
Women in the audience have to take their clothes off.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 01:40 PM

Only if the men suit the actions to 'Bonny Black Hare'...

LTS

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 01:59 PM

I think it would be an overstatement to call it a "craze," Dick. If I see an action song once every five evenings of music, I'd be surprised. Shimrod, how often does this happen? I'd certainly be annoyed if there were two or three action songs every song session or concert I attended, but that isn't the case.

In Northern California, Ed Silberman does the "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" song - so nobody else does. I've seen it a couple of times. That's enough. The novelty of such songs wears off quickly. I think that goes for any novelty song - if you've sung it for the same audience twice, that may be too often.
So, I keep looking for new audiences for "The Key of R."

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: M.Ted
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 02:10 PM

I will clap, gesture, wave, or sing along with nearly anything if we are all having fun. However, I don't like it when anyone tries to coerce any kind of response, from singing to gestures, to laughter, or applause(which is usually the intent of the other things), and I simply don't respond.

My non-responsiveness can make me a bit of a pariah.

Once, at a banquet, I was seated at the same table as the stand-up performer. After the meal, he did twenty minutes of unfunny material, and he telegraphed the punch lines with fervent mugging and hand gestures. I did not laugh. Afterwards, he refused to return to the table until I had been moved.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 02:21 PM

A thousand bottles of beer on the wall,
A thousand bottles of beer...

The fun comes when you get down into negative territory:

Minus one bottle of beer on the wall,
Minus one bottle of beer,
If none of those bottles should happen to fall,
Minus ONE bottles of beer on the wall...

...and on and on (and on and on)... OVER AND OVER AND OVER!

The gestures start when everyone gives the perpetrator the finger!

And then they leave the poor bastard all alone to continue with his dumb compulsion!!

Art

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 03:05 PM

Isn't throwing rotten fruits and things also audience participation?

Likewise ladies throwing "unmentionables" on stage?

I'm reminded of the story of the theatre group in the small town Out West. The leading lady was taken ill and her replacement was one of the local ladies of the evening.

At one point in the mellerdramar the villain shoots the lady and then drops the pistol, and asks, "Oh, what have I done?"

At which point a local cowboy stood up and replied, "You've just shot the best whore in Texas, that's what!"

I must admit that at times I've been sorely tempted....

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 03:12 PM

Another good reason for gun control

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 04:30 PM

LOL, Art & Rapaire. And, thanks to Richard for the low down on Sing Low!

Me? I am going to join my Morgan at his class this Friday and have at it with the kids in teaching them, while touching the mentioned body-parts

Toe-Knee Chest-nut
Nose Eye love you,
Toe-knee nose,
Toe-knee chest-nut
Nose Eye love you
That's what toe-knee nose.

You don't have to join in if ya don't wanna!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Genie
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 04:49 PM

Kat, your post reminds me of a silly "action song" my mother taught me when I was little:

The "straight" words would be;

Oh, Chester, have you heard about Harry,
Just got back from the Army.
I hear he knows how to wear a rose,
Hip, hip! Hooray for the Army.

But, with the rather obvious gestures (mostly pointing to various body parts), it goes like this:
Oh, CHESTer, have you EARed about HAIRry,
CHEST got BACK from the ARM-ME,
EYE EAR 'e NOSE how to WEAR A ROSE,*
HIP, HIP, hooray for the ARM-ME.

*Pat oneself where a lapel would be

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 04:51 PM

LOL! I'll have to try that with Morgan, Genie. Thanks!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Genie
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 05:05 PM

Sinsull, elementary-school kids (at least out here in Oregon and Washington) do a series of hand gestures "acting out" each animal named in the "green alligators and long-necked geese, humpty-back camels ..." chorus.   I don't recall if they use gestures on the verses as well.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 05:11 PM

Oh good lord - just shoot me! Thanks genie.

I am amazed at the instant attention this thread has earned. I guess people really feel strongly on both sides. As long as I don't get asked to lead (totally traumatized at being commanded to lead a CHEER at insurance sales training), I am while I flail around confused. Of course it could be related to the amount of wine I have consumed.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 05:16 PM

Well, I have a fond recollection of the late Stan Hugill "acting out" while he sang "A-Roving" with the (perhaps) unwilling assistance of a young lady seated next to him on stage.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 06:58 PM

I think this could apply as well to singing:

"Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up."

-Pablo Picasso

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Genie
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 02:38 AM

Good one, that, Kat.

Of course, I confess that after a long session of sitting (listening to singers or even singing along), I can be quite refreshed by a stirring round of "The Noble Duke Of York," complete with all its "When they're up they're up, and when they're down they're down, and when they're only halfway up they're neither up nor down" excercises!

That'll keep me awake for at least another half hour!

*g*

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 02:43 AM

"I once heard/saw someone sing a 20 verse ballad with actions. No-one in the audience joined in but just glared at the singer (which, in my opinion, she richly deserved!)".
It seems all my fears about what's happening in the clubs are fully justified. I think it's called 'regression'.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 04:01 AM

I can remember doing this with the Middle Bar Singers in Sidmouth about 20 years ago so I think the phrase 'new craze' is a bit OTT.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 07:02 AM

As a professional singer and musician ,I work hard at my music and take it seriously.
I dont believe actions are necessary at folk clubs and festival concerts.
On one occasion in a rowdy pub at a maritime festival,I used actions,to get a non folky element on my side,it worked [no performer likes to die a death].
so horses for courses,
If other people want to use actions,and get fun and enjoy themselves doing this while performing a song,who am I to stop them..Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Silver Slug
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 08:53 AM

I feel the same way about performers who use actions to hide their shortcomings as I do about the Mexican Wave at cricket grounds. I want to shoot the perpetrators for ruining my day with their daft antics.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 09:06 AM

when I was in a pub "Irish" band in NJ, many moons ago, I made up some silly gestures to help us get through The Fields of Athenry. As you're inevitably going to get asked to sing it, I reasoned, you might as well subvert its onverblown sentimentality. Soon everyone in the pub where we played knew the gestures to do in the chorus, and it went down a treat.

Which was fine till I sang it at a Republican pub in Dublin, with my mates doing the gestures. The locals didn't find it so funny, somehow...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Midchuck
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 09:57 AM

The idea that "The Unicorn" (a brilliant children's song written by an American Jew) is an Irish song for adults is bad enough. The gestures the audience is supposed to make, make it worse.

Once, in a bar, when the evening was well along and so was I, I came up with a way to deal with the bands who do "The Wild Rover," and want you to clap, you know...

And it's no, nay never...

(clap, clap, clap, clap)

No, nay, never, no more...

(clap, clap)

Will I play the Wild Rover...

(clap)

No, never, no more.

I unilaterally modified the chorus to a call-and-response, to wit:

And it's no, nay never...

F*** ALL YOU GUYS!

No, nay, never, no more...

F*** YOU!

Will I play the Wild Rover...

F***!

No, never, no more.

I was younger then, and a wee bit drunk. But it was very satisfying at the time.

Peter

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 12:50 PM

Growing older is mandatory, growing up is optional
a wonderful example of adults having a really great childish time is to be found on Steeleye Span's Now We Are Six record

The St. Eleye Primary School Junior Choir, vocals on Now We Are Six and Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star.

as most now know the "Junior Choir" was infact Steeleye Span themselves....

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: MMario
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 01:29 PM

I get annoyed sometimes at motions and or vocal additions to various songs - especially when harrassed and heckled to join in...

I prefer 'Wild Rover' without the clapping or the additional comments some add to the chorus; I prefer 'Holy Ground' without the shouted 'Fine Girl you are'; I definatively prefer "what do you do with a drunken sailor" without the audience doing 'the wave' during the chorus. 'Rolling home' I can do without the hand gestures - though occassionaly it is fun to watch people attempt them.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST,Crazy Man Michael
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 03:13 PM

"totally traumatized at being commanded to lead a CHEER at insurance sales training"

sung to the tune of The Seven Bold Insurance Adjusters

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 01:34 AM

There's having fun and there's being childish... the two are different.

Doing the actions with a group of people who do them because they've always done them gets a bit wearing after a while. It's good to get away from them, although after a few pints of ginger beer shandy, it's difficult - they're like stray cats... buy 'em one beer and they're yours for life.

Anyway... doing them because the group has always done them is not a reason for doing them. Sometimes it's good to just sit back and listen to the song for what it is, rather than the opportunity to make grossly obscene hand gestures in a public place and get away with it. When I participate in the actions for 'Swing Low', I use the Bowdlerised version - indicating 'come here' instead of the more usual masturbatory gesticulations - although that is dependant on how much beer I've had and whether I'm in church or not.

As for being cajoled by the performer into gesticulations and hand clapping - I don't do it. If you ever take me to a happy clappy Pentecostal-style church where everyone is required to raise their hands and leap about, I'll be the one sitting quietly and contemplating. I'll clap if I want to, and I'll gesticulate with the best of 'em, but only on my terms.

Changing tack somewhat - Roy Bailey performs a song 'May there always be sunshine' which is nigh impossible to do without actions - but they're the standard Sign Language actions - a pretty little song that adults and children alike can do, and one with real meaning to the actions. He ends up singing it in silence, just the guitar and several hundred people signing it back to him.

LTS

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Trevor
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 08:50 AM

Well for my part, I really enjoyed Keith Donnelly's "How I need you baby...." at a festival and I've shamelessly nicked it. The point is, it's got to be at the right time, with the right audience. Get it wrong and you come across as a prat, and the audience will use gestures of their own design.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 09:27 AM

The next time I sing "Wild Rover" and I come to the line "No never no more" I'm going to shut up and stop singing. Maybe I'll change "play" to "sing."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: moongoddess
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 06:47 PM

I have recently returned from Vocal Week at Augusta where I learned a neat audience participation song for kids and adults.

Pizza Hut (form the shape of a house with your hands in front of you)
Pizza Hut ( make house)
Kentucky Fried Chicken (put your hands under your armpits and flap your arms)
And a Pizza Hut (make house)
MacDonald's (form two big arches, one with each hand, meeting in the middle of your body)
MacDonald's (make arches)
Kentucky Fried Chicken (flap arms)
And a Pizza Hut. (make house)

I think audience participation songs are neat. At least I get some exercise between drafts.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 07:10 PM

I'm with Shimrod. Performers pushing action songs is right up there with performers trying to turn outdated pop music into folk songs.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 07:25 PM

There's a folkie version of the Pizza hut song...

A mandolin, a mandolin (clutch imaginary mandolin to chest and play)
A little penny whistle (play imaginary penny whistle)
and a mandolin (clutch imaginary mandolin to chest and play)
A banjo, a banjo (stamp foot vigorously on ground as if stomping out a fire and wave fist energetically)
A little penny whistle and a mandolin

LTS

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: moongoddess
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 08:08 PM

Thanks, Liz...I like your song, too, especially the part about the banjo. I have so many friends that are banjo players that I will be able to sing this to them until the cows come home.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 08:56 PM

I don't think anything should be forced. If the audience wants to sing, they'll sing -- especially if the performer has given them a good time already and they're "into" the thing.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 03:30 AM

Re the Pizza Hut/KFC/McDonalds song a few posts up: is this here Vocal Week at Augusta sponsored by 'The Guild of Purveyors of Crap Food of America'?

Or maybe childhood obesity isn't the same problem in the USA as it is here in Britain...

Cheers

Nigel

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: stallion
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 05:02 AM

I am intrigued by LtS's obscene actions to "Swing Low", When everyone is singing "Coming for to carry me home" Do you sing YES YES YES (in harmony of course)

now where did I put me mac

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Betsy
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 05:32 AM

There's a time and a place for everything.
I wouldn't clap or whatever during someone singing the Wild Rover .
Jeez, I clapped and banged over 40 years ago when it was relatively unknown . Time and circumstance Eh ?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Songs with actions: An annoying fad?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 07:58 AM

Whats the correct action for a 100th post ??