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BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people

Uncle_DaveO 25 Aug 07 - 12:33 PM
Geoff the Duck 25 Aug 07 - 01:11 PM
Bee 25 Aug 07 - 01:16 PM
Little Hawk 25 Aug 07 - 01:28 PM
Barry Finn 25 Aug 07 - 01:29 PM
GUEST,Arnie at work 25 Aug 07 - 02:01 PM
Janie 25 Aug 07 - 02:30 PM
Janie 25 Aug 07 - 02:59 PM
Little Hawk 25 Aug 07 - 04:52 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Aug 07 - 07:38 PM
katlaughing 25 Aug 07 - 09:56 PM
Janie 25 Aug 07 - 10:15 PM
Rapparee 25 Aug 07 - 10:23 PM
pdq 25 Aug 07 - 11:06 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Aug 07 - 03:42 PM
katlaughing 26 Aug 07 - 03:56 PM
Janie 26 Aug 07 - 06:05 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Aug 07 - 06:43 PM
Donuel 26 Aug 07 - 09:06 PM
Janie 26 Aug 07 - 10:17 PM
Peace 26 Aug 07 - 10:20 PM
catspaw49 26 Aug 07 - 10:36 PM
Amos 26 Aug 07 - 10:42 PM
Janie 26 Aug 07 - 11:02 PM
Janie 26 Aug 07 - 11:06 PM
fumblefingers 26 Aug 07 - 11:06 PM
Janie 26 Aug 07 - 11:57 PM
GUEST,282RA 27 Aug 07 - 01:05 AM
GUEST,The Profit 27 Aug 07 - 03:41 AM
Janie 27 Aug 07 - 06:14 AM
Janie 27 Aug 07 - 06:39 AM
282RA 27 Aug 07 - 07:50 AM
Janie 27 Aug 07 - 08:00 AM
Midchuck 27 Aug 07 - 08:20 AM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Aug 07 - 05:16 PM
Riginslinger 27 Aug 07 - 06:24 PM
autolycus 28 Aug 07 - 05:56 PM
Peace 28 Aug 07 - 06:00 PM
Janie 28 Aug 07 - 10:51 PM
Janie 29 Aug 07 - 12:02 AM
Riginslinger 29 Aug 07 - 08:30 AM
katlaughing 29 Aug 07 - 10:49 AM
Barry Finn 29 Aug 07 - 05:45 PM
DougR 29 Aug 07 - 08:25 PM
katlaughing 29 Aug 07 - 09:02 PM
DougR 30 Aug 07 - 08:09 PM
pdq 30 Aug 07 - 10:08 PM
Janie 30 Aug 07 - 10:44 PM
Janie 30 Aug 07 - 11:35 PM
Greg F. 31 Aug 07 - 09:35 AM

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Subject: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 12:33 PM

The Bush administration yesterday announced new rules on surface coal mining, effectively removing the already inadequate rules regarding what's called Mountaintop Removal. This will "legitimize" what has been illegal for many years, the removal of the tops of mountains and dumping the debris in the valleys, thus permanently polluting or even eliminating valley streams.

As is no surprise, environmentalist are up in arms about this.

See the story more fully developed at this site

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 01:11 PM

He probably thinks that Appalachia is the country next to Afghanistan. The only way to get rid of echidna is to cut the tops of the mountains where they breed and fill in the valleys where they train. It's part of the "War against Terra".
Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Bee
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 01:16 PM

Are there no political controls at all in the US when an administration runs mad?

A Bush type government would have fallen long ago here, probably by a no confidence vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 01:28 PM

It's about time someone in Washington wiped out those danged hillbillies and mountain people. They're all a bunch of inbred, crazy moonshiners and perverts. They can't spell and they have no understanding of personal hygiene. They don't read "Fortune" magazine. Bush is on the right track.

(and I am joking, okay?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 01:29 PM

Brings to mind Jean Richie's song

"Scenes of distruction on evey hand
Black waters, black waters runs though the land"

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: GUEST,Arnie at work
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 02:01 PM

Reminds me of this one:

And daddy, won't you take be back to Muhlenberg County
Down by the Green river where Paradise lay
Well I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking
Mr. Peabody's coal train has hauled it away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 02:30 PM

Thanks for posting this, Dave. If my heart had not been broken long ago by the continued rape and pillage of my beloved homeland and it's people, this would be enough to do it.

Environmental politics and policies in West Virginia have long been controlled by the coal interests. Environmental regulations related to mining have never been enforced there, regardless of the mining method. First, our beautiful mountain streams were turned red and dead by acid run-off from deep mines. then the soil and the hardwood forests on the sides of those ancient, ancient hills were stripped away, Reclamation usually consisted of leaving a flat shelf planted with some non-native cover such as crown vetch. Flooding woes started increasing then. Mind you, one to two generations before the strip mines, large, out-of-state timber concerns has already pillaged the mountainsides, leaving behind mudclogged streams from run-off of the topsoil once the steep slopes had been clearcut. The streams and the forests recovered just in time for it to happen again with the strip mining.

But mountain top removal is by far the most massively destructive practice to date. The interview really does not convey the devasting impact of the repeated flashflooding that once was a rare occurrence. Entire communities have been swept away in recent years in the southern coalfields. Hearts start pounding at the prediction of heavy rain.

Pretty much all of West Virginia is a land of low, rugged mountains, into which narrow hollows (hollers is what we calls 'em)have been cut by mountain creeks and streams. The main hollers can run for miles between parallel ridges, intersected by countless, smaller branch hollers that delve back further into the mountains. Many small communities dot these hollers, the houses strung out along the narrow valleys like beads on a necklace. Many, if not most of them started out as coal camps owned by the coal companies. Typically, the creek will run along the very base of one ridge. On the opposite bank there will be a narrow strip of 'bottom land' taken up by the narrow ribbon of the asphault road, then a bit of high ground above the flood plain where the houses are built, then, the abrupt, steep incline of the opposing ridge. There can be a good bit of variability in the width of these hollers, but all are narrow, and many are no more than 50 yards wide from the base of one ridge to the other. With the trees and soil gone, and the streams and side branches buried in the rubble that used to be the top of the mountains, the water comes up fast, or roars down the creeks in flash floods remiscent of the arroyos in the desert canyons of the West. Only this isn't desert.

I used to think I would move back to those hills someday. My mother, who still lives there, would exclaim "don't you dare even think of it!" The number of expat. hillbillies living where I do has steadily increased over the past several years. Like me, few of them now have any intention of returning. There is no longer anything there for us, except our hearts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 02:59 PM

Be it dust bowls such as occurred on the Plains during the Great Depression, climate change from greehhouse effects, flooding from the stripping of forests from the sides of steep mountains, worldwide drought conditions related to both global warming and the destruction of rain forests (or did I dream that one up?), dead coastal waters and deadly algae blooms from agricultural run-off, nature has again and again demontrated that we humans do not, in fact, have dominion over the earth.

When will we ever learn?

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 04:52 PM

Yes, it's the same sad story again and again. The Middle East, North Africa, and the entire Mediterranean rim were basically pretty much wrecked ecologically speaking over a period of about 1,000 years...because the Romans, Greeks, Carthaginians, Egyptians, and the other organized inhabitants of that area cut down all the forests to build thousands and thousands of wooden ships so they could make war on one another.

It happens everywhere people go. They cut down the forests and they strip the land of valuable minerals. When it's gone, they look for the next place to do the same thing to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 07:38 PM

And they have the nerve to claim to be "patriots".


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 09:56 PM

I have ordered my new bumper sticker and put it on my car (my own thought-up one:) Beware False Patriots! (Bush & Cheney's names are slashed out in the interntational "No" symbol.

My ancestors were all over West VA before and during the Civil War. We have handwritten notes mentioning certain sites, some of them sound like mountains or their tops. I shudder to think what the bastards have done to them.

There has GOT to be some giant clash or something which will STOP this kind of thing. We can't keep on this way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 10:15 PM

Unfortunately, we can, and most likely will, keep on like this. At least until we are extinct as a species. I'm sorry we will take so many other species down with us.

On the otherhand, we, and our little piece of real estate, are less than insignificant when measured against the incomprehensible vastness of the cosmos. It can be comforting to realize the universe does not revolve around our belly buttons.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 10:23 PM

As I've said before, the planet will survive but there is no reason or guarantee that humanity will do so.

The cockroaches will chew on our bones-o.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: pdq
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 11:06 PM

You might want to check out a copy of The Hellstrom Chronicle, a movie that makes that point. Good photography plus music by Lalo Schifrin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 03:42 PM

True enough, human societies do have a knack of doing this kind of thing, but most developed and civilised nations have learnt a few hard lessons. The kind of extreme self-mutilation of countries that seems to have pretty free licence in the USA isn't the norm.

Don't blame the genes and say "it's just human nature". Blame the political and economic system that encourages people to do this kind of thing to your country. (After all rape and murder are part of human nature - and, when you get down to it, this kind of thing is really just a variant of that part of human nature.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 03:56 PM

Yes, McGrath!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 06:05 PM

I don't, McGrath. I'm just not very hopeful, when I look around the world, not just at the USA, that the lesson will be learned before it is too late. When I look at South America, China, Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Bloc, the environmental policies of the the US are certainly no worse, and often, much better than these places, and more likely to consider the impact of these policies on the quality of life of we citizens. Which is a pretty sad statement, in and of itself, considering what a lousy job we do.

That doesn't mean I advocate simply throwing the towel in. It means striving to do what is right, and to work to try to get governments and corporations to do what is right, simply because I believe it is right, regardless of I beleive a different outcome is likely.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 06:43 PM

It was thinking in terms of those kinds of countries that caused me to use the expression "developed and civilised nations". Not a satisfactory expression I know - but my point is that in these kind of matters a country as prosperous and technically advanced as the USA ought to measure itself against countries such as those in Western Europe rather than against struggling developing countries of one sort or another.

After all, leaving the USA has a good claim to be the oldest established (more or less) democratic society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 09:06 PM

As the coal mine owner Honest Bob says "There is no talking to the irrational families of the victims".

If people are outraged they will be called irrational.

The greedy class knows they will win this in the short run which is all they need to make a fortune on the cheap.

The people will win in the long run only after all the damage and tradgedies have occured.

The only way to win in the short run is first with court injuntions and then when all else fails,I am sad to say, is arm** ins**********.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 10:17 PM

*blush* The Absolutes of Good Writing thread has now got me noticing all my mispellings, incorrect use of pronouns and typos. Let me just say I am aware that there are a number of the same in my last post.

In the USA (I don't know about other places) activists for a number of issues that could be classified as environmental and/or social justice, don't do a very good job of helping the 'average Joe' understand why environmental protection, concern for the poor, etc. are in his 'enlightened best interest.' Which means, I guess, they are not very effective at 'enlightening' folks. And, the immediate now and short-term future are much more compelling to most of us than the more distant and more speculative future.

West Virgina, eastern Kentucky and southwest Virginia, the main coal areas of the southern Appalachians, are hardscrabble places to live. Look around the world. Mountainous regions nearly always are. Coal mining brought the closest thing to economic prosperity to West Virginia the people who lived there had ever known. (Not even pre-colonial Native Americans made the place home. It was, for the most part, strictly hunting territory.) Although coal production in West Virginia has steadily increased over the last 20 to 30 years, the number of mine related jobs has been steadily declining since the early to mid 1960's, as automation and new mining technologies have continuously advanced and reduced the need for manpower. And the population of the State continues to steadily and dramatically decline. There are no economic alternatives to coal of any significance there. There is a standing joke "Would the last person to leave West Virginia please remember to turn off the lights?" that has too much truth in it for comfort.

The miners themselves have vehemently opposed environmental regulation, and from a purely personal, short term perspective, with good reason. Environmental regulations definitely effect the availabiliy of mining related jobs. Let me repeat, there are no alternatives to coal. so the people there cling as hard as they can to the few jobs left, and do everything they can to keep another plank in the ship from falling away. What they don't see or accept, and really, how could you expect them to, is the ship will eventually come apart, and nothing they do can stop it.

The only message is "You are doomed. Accept it. Since you are doomed anyway, have the foresight and the - what - altruism? to save the land. It will hasten your doom a bit to go ahead and do so, but your doom is inevitable. So make it count."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Peace
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 10:20 PM

Have I ever mentioned that I think Bush is an idiot?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 10:36 PM

Ya' know Janie, I too can feel for you. I grew up in east Ohio, a place that was stripped for many years. They're still trying to strip there but it has become pretty tough until this asshole comes along and with the stroke of a pen..................

If you read the text of this you'll find that mountaintop removal opens it back up to all the interpretations that it took years to establish. It makes me sick...it really does.

Bruce, I don't care that he's an idiot, but he's such a dangerous idiot. That's the real problem.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Amos
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 10:42 PM

The man should be removed from office and sent back to whatever village in Texas is missing its pervert.

Or on to the next incarnation, probably as a pillbug.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:02 PM

The 'doom' is this; You must either leave, or you and your children must resign yourselves to a hardscrabble existence that, at best, borders on subsistence.

This article, in spite of its condenscending tone, offers a pretty good analysis of the hows and whys the environmental lobby has never been very effective in West Virginia.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:06 PM

The Bush regime hastens the destruction, but, unfortunately, that is fine with a majority of West Virginians.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: fumblefingers
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:06 PM

That Bush again. I'll bet he sat on the porch and asked himself, "What can I do to fuck up Appalachia?" It's amazing that he had the time, what being personally responsible for each and every thing that happens in the entire world.

U.S. Dept. of Interior


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:57 PM

ff,

If Bush and his regime are given the benefit of doubt, the documented evidence and science on these issues still suggest their environmental policies, especially when it comes to energy, are remarkably short-sighted, handicapped by tunnel vision, or both.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 01:05 AM

>>It's about time someone in Washington wiped out those danged hillbillies and mountain people. They're all a bunch of inbred, crazy moonshiners and perverts. They can't spell and they have no understanding of personal hygiene. They don't read "Fortune" magazine. Bush is on the right track.

(and I am joking, okay?)<<

Most of those idiots voted for him anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: GUEST,The Profit
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 03:41 AM

"and in that time one shall arise one whose name shall be rung 'cross mountain and valley, Bush he shall be called, and The Chief, and he shall smite the Appalachians even where they shall sleep, unto the last of their number."
Appalachians II/23-25

And so was it prophesized, lo many a year hence. And little can we aboutsk it, sez I!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 06:14 AM

282RA's idiotic remark is typical of the arrogance with which outsiders view us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 06:39 AM

Subject: RE: Fiction:The Woman in the Holler
From: Janie - PM
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 07:30 PM

The deer trail ran right along the old broken fence of the graveyard at the top of the ridge. Louie wasn't up this way much, but when he was he always took the time to sit a spell with the folks up here. Old Cassie and Aunt Cathy were probably the only people on earth that really knew Louie; Knew the depths of the young man who most people thought of as a clown and a redneck. Truth was, Louie had the true heart of a hillbilly. He had poetry in him, right down to his toes. He knew what mattered.

No one would ever have believed that Louie read poetry, that he had committed to memory countless poems that moved him, that really said something. Truth to tell, he would have been mortified for most anyone to know that about him. Why, they might think he was a pansy or somethin'! He remembered, as clear as a bell, the first poem he memorized because it meant something. He had been in the 7th grade when Muriel Miller Dressler came to talk to his American Literature class. He had rolled his eyes and thought about cutting class the day the teacher announced that the Poet Laureate of West Virginia was going to be there. But he didn't--he was afraid of the hiding he'd get if his Paw found out he had skipped school. And boy, was he ever glad later that he had been there. Otherwise he might not ever have learned to notice that words could be magic. He listened as she recited that poem, "Appalachia", and his spirit was changed forever. He went home and spent three nights memorizing those lines that were his story, that shed light on the heartwood of his people.

And whenever he stopped here in the graveyard, up on the ridge, he took the time to speak those magic words to the folks laying up here in the ground. He thought it important that they know they still mattered.


Appalachia----by Muriel Miller Dressler

I am Appalachia! In my veins runs fierce mountain pride; the hill-fed
streams of passion, and,
stranger, you don't know me! You analyzed my every move--you still go away
shaking your head. I remain enigmatic. How can you find rapport with
me--you who never stood in the bowels of hell,
never felt a mountain shake and open its jaws to partake of human sacrifice?
You, who never stood
on a high mountain, watching the sun unwind its spiral rays; who never
searched the glens for wild
flowers, never picked mayapples or black walnuts; never ran wildly through
the woods in pure
delight, nor dangled your feet in a lazy creek, You, who never danced to
wild sweet notes,
outpourings of nimble-fingered fiddlers. who never just "sat a spell" on a
porch, chewing and
whittling; or hearing a past time the deep-throated bay of chasing hounds
and hunters shouting with
joy, "He's treed!" You, who never once carried a coffin to a family plot
high up on a ridge because
mountain folk know it's best to lie where breezes from the hills whisper,
"You're home". You, who
never saw from the valley that graves on a hill bring easement of pain to
those below? I tell you,
stranger, hill folk know what life is all about; they don't need the pills
to tranquilize the sorrow and
joy of living. I am Appalachia; and , stranger, though you've studied me,
you still don't know me



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: RE: Fiction:The Woman in the Holler
From: Janie - PM
Date: 14 Nov 06 - 08:06 PM

He remembered the college students with VISTA that used to come up the holler when he was a young boy, gonna make their lives better some how. They were nice kids, really, with their New York accents and their eagerness to 'save' these 'poor, ignorant, poverty-stricken' hillbillies. Some of 'em even stayed long enough to learn to play a pretty good fiddle. (The holler folks used to laugh at those that moved into the really old, abandoned places with no water or electricity. "Tryin' to 'out West Virginia us'," some folks said, resentful. That resentment came from somehow feelin' shamed, and Louie remembered feeling that shame himself.) Those kids thought they were gonna 'live off the land.' Well, some of did, for a little while. But ten years, three kids, an emptied trust fund, and one divorce later, most of 'em headed back up North.


What I meant to say, 282RA, is go f*ck yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: 282RA
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 07:50 AM

Funny how none of the most conservative areas of the country seemed to have voted for Bush these days. Apparently it must have been the liberal areas. You have to wonder how the guy got elected since his core supporters swear up and down that it wasn't them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 08:00 AM

Oh, West Virginia went with Bush, there is no question about that.

Now go back and read the friggin' thread and links.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Midchuck
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 08:20 AM

Bush hasn't "declared war" on anyone (well, except Iraq, maybe)

He's just done what his handlers tell him, like any good Republican. That's what they got him into office to do.

Peter.

P. S. The above should not be construed as an implied endorsement of the Democrats. "A plague on both...."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 05:16 PM

I always think it's a bit unfair that Bush gets described as "a Texan". After all he was born and raised and educated in New England, and seems only ever to have gone to Texas in the first place as a way of dodging the draft.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 06:24 PM

Why should the Appalachians be any different, the dizzy idiot has declared war on everybody else. Well, except for his wealthy friends, of course, the ones in Saudi Arabia and other places.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: autolycus
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:56 PM

Am i the only one starting to worry (slightly) for mrs.Bush's safety?





       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 06:00 PM

Would you buy a used car from this man?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 10:51 PM

'Spaw,

I remember the first time I saw some of those strip mines across the border in Ohio, not too far from Marietta. They were so visible, the entire scale of the destruction apparent in one long panoramic view. There was no way to hide behind the backs of mountains. I had seen photgraphs of the huge strip mines further west. Even so, I was unprepared.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 12:02 AM

I opine it is a mistake to lay all the blame on the Bushites. A Kerry Administration would not have pushed for the loosening of regulations, but would not have fought it very hard either in the absence of strong popular support in the region effected. Gore would have, but not Kerry.

Miners tend not to support environmental regulations for the same reasons as loggers and commercial fishermen. Think about it. Add farming, and you have the only 4 occupations that I can think of right now that are directly about the extraction of raw, natural resources from the earth and seas. (Well, I guess there are also the oil men and riggers who pump petroleum).

More later. Unless some one goes ahead and supplies the 'more.'

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:30 AM

Whatever the outcome, the last thing we need is more human population growth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 10:49 AM

Yes, the oilmen are back at it, Janie. We are fighting tooth and nail to preserve some of our most pristine mountain plateaus,such as the Roan Plateau, in Western Colorado. There are photos there which show what the destruction has been like down below next to the interstate highway. We're trying to keep them from doing the same to the tops. This whole area is in boomtown status, now, with colleges students unable to find any housing,rents and home prices skyrocketing, and good workers leaving their long-time usual jobs for the lure of prime pay in the oilfields. I hear the same is going on in Wyoming. My sister works with homeless families. A dad came in just the other day with three and four year old kids. He was far from home, had sole custody and couldn't find a rental anywhere.

One good thing I heard on NPR, the oilmen are taking care to secure all foodstuff, etc, and training their people on how NOT to engage with bears. I even heard an oil rig safety officer tell his worker, "We're in the bear's territory and he's only trying to make a living same as us." That's a real change!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Barry Finn
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:45 PM

We shouldn't have to save the country bit by bit, or right by right we shouldn't have to fight tooth & nail for every piece of property & every bit of food, every single home & garden or the ground we walk on or the air we breath. We shouldn't have to fight to make laws & to keep effective laws but we do. That's what our energy czars & others want. We are only in the way.

We are being attacked on all fronts & at some point the only way Americans are gonna win, at this rate is to fight back.

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: DougR
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:25 PM

I heard it from an unimpeachable source that Bush plans to send the 82nd Airborn in to invade West-By-God Virginia just as soon as he can spare them in Iraq.

There's coal in them thar hills!

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 09:02 PM

That's crass and insensitive, Doug...oh, you took your cue from the shrub, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: DougR
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 08:09 PM

Crass? Insensitive? Yep, just about as crass and insensitive as the title of this thread.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: pdq
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 10:08 PM

The thread title isn't crass and insenitive, it's asinine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 10:44 PM

Read this and weep Active promotion of mountain top mining, not an objective scientific report as it masquerades.
hRead this and weep ttp://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mountaintop_removal/007/
http://www.kentuckycoal.org/Mountaintop%20Mining/Issues%20-%20Responses.htm
http://www.radioopensource.org/coal-mountaintop-removal-in-appalachia/

http://www.riseupwestvirginia.blogspot.com/
http://www.friendsofcoal.org/site/
http://www.wvcoal.com/


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Janie
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 11:35 PM

The above represents assorted POV's. I screwed up some of the links.

It clearly comes down to 'what do you value.'

I looked only at WV related sites, but Kentucky, North Carolina, Ohio and Pennsylvania all have MTRS.

The 'for' links are all industry sponsored sites. Consider the WVGS site an industry sponsored site. The 'agin' sites are all environmental sites, some grassroots and some not.

I look squarely from the POV of envirnmental protection, not only because I ascribe to the view that all creation has equal intrinsic value, but also because long term, it is best for the survival of the human species. However, environmentalists must start giving serious attention to the short term (meaning two, or even three generations) economic impact on the people who mine the coal, fish the sea, pump the oil, cut the trees or grow the veggies. These are mostly one engine economies with few possibilities for significant development of alternative or more diverse economies. At least not 'greener' economies.

As you sit at your computer with your AC running, the stereo and television blaring, the freezer humming, the dishwasher swishing, complaining about your electric bill, ask yourself what you are truly willing to sacrifice to reduce the demand for electricity, or how much you are willing to pay for electricity so that is extracted or generated at a much higher price.

How many of us are willing to consciously embrace a much lower 'standard of living' so that future generations, and the other creatures of the earth might have a longer term chance of survival. Will you knowingly and willingly give up the hope that you can help your child finance a college education? Hell, how many of us would gladly give up DSL?

How many of us are willing to really and significantly reduce our demands on the environment? How many of us are willing to sacrifice our jobs, our roots, to risk our homes to foreclosure, our ability to feed our families tommorrow for the sake of the environment?

To the extent we are unwilling to make sacrifices in the same measure as we expect of those we call 'idiots' for not making those choices, we are nothing but hypocrites.

In this post-modern age, it is the consumer who ultimately fuels the 'self-will run riot' engine of completely amoral American capitalism.

Bush hasn't declared war. We have. Handled by the entrenched power of not just big, huge money, he is simply an opportunist.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Bush declares war on Appalachian people
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 09:35 AM

That's crass and insensitive, Doug.

Its also completely typical of his usual smug, self-assured, uninformed, ignorant, self-absorbed, inane bombast & blather.

So what else did you expect???


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