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Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow / Teče voda, teče

cetmst 26 Aug 07 - 07:18 AM
GUEST,Bryan Mildenhall 30 Aug 10 - 10:49 AM
leeneia2 30 Aug 10 - 12:33 PM
Artful Codger 30 Aug 10 - 08:45 PM
leeneia2 30 Aug 10 - 11:52 PM
LadyJean 31 Aug 10 - 12:05 AM
LadyJean 31 Aug 10 - 12:06 AM
Artful Codger 31 Aug 10 - 02:17 AM
Artful Codger 01 Sep 10 - 06:33 PM
LadyJean 02 Sep 10 - 12:20 AM
GUEST,leeneia 02 Sep 10 - 11:04 AM
Artful Codger 02 Sep 10 - 11:03 PM
cetmst 03 Sep 10 - 08:52 AM
cetmst 03 Sep 10 - 09:09 AM
GUEST,leeneia 03 Sep 10 - 01:27 PM
Artful Codger 03 Sep 10 - 02:44 PM
Artful Codger 03 Sep 10 - 11:05 PM
GUEST 19 Jul 13 - 07:41 PM
GUEST,Grishka 22 Jul 13 - 08:05 AM
GUEST,Kaldea17 13 Dec 13 - 04:50 AM
GUEST,Dr. Greg A. Grove 22 Sep 14 - 04:03 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: cetmst
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 07:18 AM

My wife's choral group wants to sing a setting of a Czech folk song she remembers from her childhood, "Waters Ripple and Flow". It is indexed in the Silver Burdett book "Making Music Your Own", book 6, but I don't have that one. Can anyone supply me the lyrics and tune?
- Charles


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: GUEST,Bryan Mildenhall
Date: 30 Aug 10 - 10:49 AM

This song was one of my favorites back in 1970-1971 at Orem High School, Orem, UT. Our A'Cappella group sang it and it always brought tears to our eyes.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: leeneia2
Date: 30 Aug 10 - 12:33 PM

is it this?

http://listeninglab.stantons.com/item.php?stno=311803


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: Artful Codger
Date: 30 Aug 10 - 08:45 PM

The original song is "Teče voda, teče (přes velický majír)", variously called a Czech, Moravian or Slovak folk song, so safest may be to call it Czechoslovak, at the risk of offending both nations. Jarmila Novotná's recording of it, made in the 1940s, may be heard on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FWSnrtdZeE

There are at least three different folk songs beginning "Teče voda, teče" (not to mention a number of modern songs with this phrase), so when searching you may wish to use the entire title I've given. Unfortunately, this will overlook some versions where the wording or spelling is slightly different. For instance, the Slovak title is more likely to be "Tečie voda, tečie, cez velecký majer".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: leeneia2
Date: 30 Aug 10 - 11:52 PM

Thanks, Artful. That's interesting.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: LadyJean
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 12:05 AM

Waters Ripple and flow
Swiftly flow to the sea.
Send my freedom to me.
Send it faithfully.
River flowing free,
On your way to the sea.

Sound the cry of freedom,
River as you flow.
Ever let us know.
Victory over woe.
River flowing fast

and that's as much as I remember. Sorry!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: LadyJean
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 12:06 AM

River flowing fast
Send us liberty at last.

Sorry about the memory lapse.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: Artful Codger
Date: 31 Aug 10 - 02:17 AM

Those lyrics sound like a political reworking of the original, which was a love song. I did run across some mention of Tomáš Masaryk (humanist, political advocate and Czechoslovakia's first president) in relation to this song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: Artful Codger
Date: 01 Sep 10 - 06:33 PM

After a bit more research:

It was a favorite song of Masaryk--that seems to be the only direct tie to him.

Here's a Moravian version:


Teče voda, teče

1. Teče voda, teče, přes velecký majír,
něhal si ma něhal, starodávný frajír,
něhal si ma něhal, starodávný frajír.
[The second line of each verse is similarly repeated.]

2. Něhal som ťa, něhal, dobre ty víš komu,
co ty reči nosí, do našeho domu.

3. Do našeho domu, pod naše okénko,
co sem se naplakal, sivá holuběnko.

4. Vráť se, milý, vráť se, od kysúcké vody,
odnesl's mně klíček, od mojí svobody.


Two additional verses from a Slovak version:

5. Skúr sa Stará Turá, v kolečko obrátí,
sloboděnka moja, ta sa nenavrátí.

6. Už sa Stará Turá, v kolečko obracá,
sloboděnka moja, ta sa nenavracá.


The song seems to stem from the Horňácko region of south-eastern Moravia, near the border of Slovakia. Three place names are indicated:
(1) The Velička River, a tributary of the Morava southeast of Brno (and of the town of Stražnice).
(2) Stará Turá, a town in Slovakia, and (judging from context) a nearby peak in the White Carpathian mountains which separate Moravia and Slovakia.
(3) The Kysuca River, in the Kysuce region of northwest Slovakia, north of the town of Žilina.

The song text is vague in context, and the language is in dated dialect, so that even Czech people who have commented on the song are unsure how to interpret it. I'll give my faulty translation, and then describe some of the conjectures.

1. The water flows through the farm;
you left me, my former beau.

2. You left me, you know well to whom
[that you courted] at our home.

3. At our home, under our window,
why did you cry [so much?], dove-grey dove?

4. Return, my love, from the Kysuca water;
you took away the key to my freedom.

5. [Even] when Stará Turá turns around in a circle,
my freedom, you will not return.

6. Now Stará Turá turns around in a circle;
my freedom, you aren't returning.


Notes:

majír = farm or manor garden; derived from German "Meierhof" (manor farm)

frajír = milinec/boyfriend; starodávný literally means ancient, but here it seems to mean "of old" or one-time/former, or possibly disheveled.

reči nosí: much confusion here, not only about the meaning but about who's doing what or talking of whom. Literally, courtship/news/speech/rumor carries/brings.


The young woman had a boyfriend who courted her for some time, but her family didn't approve or denounced/talked him down because she was "to the manor born" while he was common. So he left and went to Kysuce. Possibly he abandoned her for another woman, but the mention of the Kysuca waters, combined with his never returning may mean that he drowned himself in that river.

Taking the key to her freedom may mean that he left her "spoiled goods". Or it may simply be that her family has meanwhile arranged a "suitable" but loveless marriage for her. Or that she remains pledged to him till he returns--if ever. I take the final verse, with the mountain turning, to mean she is about to take her own life.

One translation I found puts a different spin on the story: he has left to fight for freedom, and she keeps vigil until he returns. Finally, the mountain turns, he's victorious and she awaits his return and her freedom. I haven't encountered a Czech or Slovak text which supports this reading, but it sounds like a likely Soviet-period recasting.

The water flowing at the beginning of the song can also be taken as a metaphor for her tears.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: LadyJean
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 12:20 AM

Ok, mine was in my music book in grade school. I'm sure it was a political rewrite. I went to school during the cold war. But we loved the song, because the tune was so beautiful.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 11:04 AM

Thanks very much for the translation, Artful. I like the image of the lover returning when the mountain (or town) spins, i.e., never.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: Artful Codger
Date: 02 Sep 10 - 11:03 PM

leeneia: That image reminds me of the hut of the Russian witch Baba Yaga, that turns around on chicken legs.

Yes, LadyJean, this song does have a beautiful tune. It got me casting about again for more Czech/Slovak songs, and here are a few I turned up on YouTube:

Když jsem koval koníčky (When I shoed ponies):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KWUp213QIU

V Hodoníně za vojáčka (In Hodonín they took me for a soldier):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmSZTclSfKk

Lásko bože lásko (Love, o God, love):
with words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_fj9kycWvA
wonderful duet (second half of the clip): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8muOi1f4Fqg

And a whole slew of other bittersweet folk songs sung by Jožka Černý, such as "Ej, od Buchlova" (Hey, from Buchlov) and "Šohaju, šohaju" (O swain, swain).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: cetmst
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 08:52 AM

I have obtained a choral arrrangement, copyright 1926 (renewed 1954)
J.Fischer & Bro., All rights Assigned tp and Controlled by Alfred Publishing Co., Inc. The arrangement is for SATB and piano by Deems Taylor and the words are in both "Czech-Slovak" and English. The Czech words are nearly identical to those posted above but the English words ("English version by Deems Taylor")don't look much like previous translations.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: cetmst
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 09:09 AM

WATERS RIPPLE AND FLOW
English version by Deems Taylor

Soprano:
Waters ripple and flow, slowly passes each day;
Faithless lover of mins, stay no longer away;
Faithless lover of mine, stay no longr away.

Baritons:
Dear one, well dost thou know why fond lovers must part;
Wherefore falters thy faith? why so timid thy heart?
Wherefore falters thy faith? why so timid thy heart?

All:
Dearest lover cone back; end the vigil I keep
Thine the key to my heart, mine, without thee to weep!
Thine the key to my heart, mine, without thee to weep.

When the mountain shall turn. then mu happiness dawns,
Then my happiness dawns, then shall freedom be mine;
Then my happiness dawns, then shall freedom be mine.

Lo, the mountain has turned, now the victory is thine
Now my happiness dawns, now shall freedom be mine;
Now my happiness dawns, now shall freedom be mine.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 01:27 PM

Thanks for the link, artful. My husband's ancestors were Czech, so both of us are interested in Czech culture.

Cetmst, I'm glad you found an arrangement for the choir. I bet they will like it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: Artful Codger
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 02:44 PM

Corrections to verse 2 of the Moravian version I posted: "Vašeho" (your) should be "našeho" (our); and "Ťa" and "Ty" should be uncapitalized to "ťa" and "ty" for consistency.
    I hope I did it right. -Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow
From: Artful Codger
Date: 03 Sep 10 - 11:05 PM

The Deems Taylor translation was the one I was referring to that gave a different spin, but as it's under copyright, I didn't want to quote it. Given its early date and the dual-language texts, we can rule out a Soviet reworking, making the great liberties taken in the translation all the more disconcerting.

But at least the rewriting wasn't as drastic as in the supposedly educational Silver-Burdett songsters, where translations beyond the first verse seem to have been pulled out of thin air. "Let's reinvent everyone's culture, like we've done with cowboys and pirates...."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow / Teče voda, teče
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 07:41 PM

This is what I remember from my 5th grade music class (Making Music Your Own Bk. 6):

Waters ripple and flow,
Swiftly flow to the sea,
Bring my freedom to me,
Set my spirit free,
River flowing by,
On your way to the sky.

River Tura flowing,
Hear my yearning song,
For my home I long,
Ever make me strong,
River flowing deep,
Let me courage keep.

Sound the cry of freedom,
River as you flow,
Then my heart might know,
Victory over woe,
Tura flowing past,
Give me liberty at last.

The River Tura is in Siberia, so this was possible a case of some Siberian prisoner setting new words to an old melody, or it was a propagandistic rewrite during the Cold War.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow / Teče voda, teče
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 22 Jul 13 - 08:05 AM

Normally Artful's expertise in all matters Czech can be trusted; indeed Stará Turá is a town. But how could it "turn around in a circle"? Stará means old.

My wild guess at the meaning of the two verses in question is the following:
Rather the old Tura will flow uphill, than that my freedom returns.

But even when the old Tora flows uphill, my freedom won't return.
It is a topos common to all Slav folklore, in hundeds of songs, normally not speaking of freedom, but of a lost lover or one's youth. Variants of the river flowing uphill include sunken stones rising back to the surface etc. In this case, a river is the appropriate image.

Obviously, the verses are political and not as old as they are meant to sound.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Waters Ripple and Flow / Teče voda, teče
From: GUEST,Kaldea17
Date: 13 Dec 13 - 04:50 AM

That is the song I learned in the 6th grade also.


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Subject: RE: Waters Ripple and Flow (Taylor trans.)
From: GUEST,Dr. Greg A. Grove
Date: 22 Sep 14 - 04:03 PM

Lots of confusing translations. I have a CD presentation of the Mormon Tabernacle singing the work in mixed voices with pipe organ.


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