Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 31 Aug 07 - 08:47 PM With 'normal' vehicles tests showed that the best average fuel economy was at about 50 MPH or 80Kmh - as the speed increases the wind resistance increases as the square ... not a linear increase ... the extra resistance with a towed van or the higher one piece campervan things will get far more expensive very quickly. Also, as the speed increases, 'aerodynamic lift' of the body shape can cause the front steering wheels to lose good contact, thus making life exciting... |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Maryrrf Date: 31 Aug 07 - 03:55 PM If there is a definition of a 'good' accident it's one where everybody walks away unscathed. I'm so glad the two of you are okay! Caravans can be replaced. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Donuel Date: 31 Aug 07 - 03:08 PM You make the accident sound positively picturesque. In the US we call them fender benders or roll overs. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: EBarnacle Date: 31 Aug 07 - 12:00 PM When towing our business box, the only way we can keep the MPG up to 12 mpg is to hold the speed to 50. Needless to say, this makes for some very long trips. Normal MPG is about 23 on the tow vehicle. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Richard Bridge Date: 31 Aug 07 - 03:54 AM I think that campervans are often no brisker or more stable than a well matched car and caravan, and since I have been known to bend the speed limit a bit find I am quite often passing struggling campercans which are certainly higher than a caravan (since they usually have one bed over the driver's cab) and seem to find crosswinds or headwinds a real trial. The modern front wheel drive van chassis are an invitation to getting bogged on a campsite, and to need to unlevel and disconnect etc just to pop down to the shops for a box of eggs (or more beer) is a real sod. UK law imposes an ABSOLUTE weight limit on the trailer of 100% of the GVW of the towing vehicle (with the exception of a few real 4-wheel-drives like land rovers and range rovers which have a maximum towing we1ght of 3 tonnes) The giant US Winnebagos etc certainly look wonderful, but can it make sense to have £20,000 or so of toy sitting depreciating for 50 weeks of the year, and needing servicing like the car does etc? Older ones I sometimes see plugging along the motorway at about 50 as I sail by, too. If I had a US fifth wheel, presumably I'd need a truck cab from an articulated lorry to tow it, as they all seem to need one of those truck bed things as a coupler, and they look as if the nose weight is in the order of tons not tens of pounds. And then the 20 mpg (towing) I get with the VOlvo would be more like 10 or lower. Makes a hell of a price at nearly £1 per litre. So am I right that |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Bonecruncher Date: 30 Aug 07 - 11:29 PM Tony and Pearl So pleased that you are both OK. The mental trauma will heal in time. Hope that you get yourselves a replacement 'van soon, preferably one with a built-in engine! Motor-caravans certainly have their uses, and modern engines are much less thirsty than the old Ford V6! Colyn. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 30 Aug 07 - 10:21 PM Greg B Back in the 50/60s we pulled a half ton plywood van behind an FJ over road up North Qld across dirt roads (mountains and all) over which the famous Reddex Trial was run - of course 'earlier model' cars had engines with a longer piston strike, thus more low down torque. More modern engines tend to be higher revving, with a shorter piston strike and have less low down torque. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Greg B Date: 30 Aug 07 - 09:40 PM Here in Reagan country (you know, the good old USofA, 'Murica) almost nobody tows anything behind anything but a mighty great gas-hog. Even the Ford F150 pickup-truck is regarded as a marginal tow vehicle--- things like my Toyota FJ Cruiser with it's mere 4.0 litres are considered pikers. An F150 Super-Duty or an F250 or a Ford Expedition or Excursion are more the norm for pulling...certainly NOT a Volvo passenger vehicle! It wasn't always that way. Back in the 1960's you'd routinely see a Buick or Ford station wagon (that's an Estate to those of you across the pond) albeit with a 360 or 427, pulling a travel trailer (caravan) with it's ass hanging low and the lot swaying about. (Before the 'Lucy' show, she and Desi Arnaz did a great movie called 'The Long, Long Trailer,' which didn't much exaggerate.) But mostly, over here, the travel trailer has given way to dedicated 'motor homes' which are built on commercial truck chassis. The very smallest of these are built on delivery van chassis, but none has less than 200bhp these days. Back in the 1970's and 80's they built some on Toyota light truck chassis, with as little as 2.4L to propel them forward, or hold them back. They've gone the way of the dinosaur. Just to put it in perspective, on my FJ Cruiser, I'd not tow anything greater than one of the tiny fiberglass 'micro' caravans or a tent-trailer. The speeds are too much, the mountains too high, and the distances to great to consider otherwise. Glad you're okay. A mere investment in a 12 miles-per(US)-gallon vehicle will make your life easy--- should you come into the fortune to feed it! |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Bee Date: 30 Aug 07 - 09:15 PM Foolestroope, we installed an electric trailer braking system which certainly helped, but we decided to ditch the monster anyway, for a smaller one. I'm still dreaming of a second hand Oxygen or ALiner... |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Richard Bridge Date: 30 Aug 07 - 06:17 PM Most European caravans still have overrun brakes. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 30 Aug 07 - 08:48 AM "it was prone to 'pushing' on downhills. " In Oz, trailers over a certain weight for cars (trucks had their own systems) used to have to have a mechanical brake (before the days of 'power braking), activated by cables going to both caravan wheels, and triggered by a setup that was activated by a sliding section in the hitch - braking caused the van to slide the thing forward, then hitting the brake trigger. A real b****** if you wanted to back up and forgot to trip the manual 'safety' to allow that.... :-) ... and forgot to reset it after... |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: alanabit Date: 30 Aug 07 - 03:26 AM What Peace said. Glad to hear that you are safe. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: peterfirth Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:11 PM First I hear of you in a few years and it's about an accident and you're holding up the traffic. Glad to hear you're ok. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Bee Date: 29 Aug 07 - 04:27 PM Yikes! Glad it wasn't serious. We've owned five different trailers over the past twelve years, and one old whale was way too heavy - we got rid of it fast when we realized it was prone to 'pushing' on downhills. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: EBarnacle Date: 29 Aug 07 - 01:46 PM When towing my business trailer [box type], I make it a point to check the tires and hitch every time I stop for a break or for fuel, also when I start out initially. So far, everything has been OK. I also make it a point to balance the trailer when I load it. One of my nightmares it a couple of hundred thousand dollars of art work scattered all over the road--along with the accidents caused by the frenzied efforts of other drivers to avoid running over it. [Joe, this may end up as a multiple posting due to failure to enter it when I hit the submit button. Feel free to correct the situation.] |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: The PA Date: 29 Aug 07 - 10:46 AM Wow! - I tow regularly, every week, sometimes twice a week and always check the trailer pressures and my vehicle pressures before we leave, but I didn't realise there was so much to it. I will be even more vigilant now. Thanks for the info. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Doktor Doktor Date: 29 Aug 07 - 10:30 AM Cripes! Glad you're OK! |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 29 Aug 07 - 10:03 AM Good too see you survived. Having been a kid who had his family tow vans on holidays, I know about some of the excitements. Under-inflation can cause a new tyre to burst. It can be caused by a slow leak due to a puncture. As the air leaks out, the pressure actually rises due to the tyre flexing more and heating up - this can become a vicious cycle until damage occurs and possible failure - not necessarily until the next journey... Experts will check the temperature of the tyres - a bit hard without a meter - and the pressure - if the pressure is much higher that it should be (normal use will raise the temp and thus pressure a little bit), when it was ok before, is a warning sign - check as soon as you have been stopped for a some time - like a food/comfort/tiredness break (you DO have one every 2 hours driving?!!!), and see if it 'starts to look flat' - well that USED to work, but now with low profile tyres, that isn't easy - the pressure is best - once you just used to 'kick the tyres'... :-) Checking a tyre's pressure should be done when cold - if you do it when the tyre is hot, you may cause the tyre to be actually under-inflated (at resting temperature!) and start the nasty cycle just mentioned. I once was driving a minibus (12 seater) in strong crosswinds. It was unstable just a few km/hr above 90 - any attempt to go at the 110 km/hr speed limit made it feel light in the front end and wander all over the road... |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: kendall Date: 29 Aug 07 - 09:36 AM You both survived. That's what is important. I hate to tow anything; too many things to go wrong. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Richard Bridge Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:28 AM Despite having a Volvo (pretty ideal as a towcar) I have "souped up" my Bulldog stabiliser by tightening it to about one and a half times themanufacturer's stated tightness, and it is awkward to get on and off but pretty solid once on. I tend to bend speed limits (60 mph max here in UK, with a caravan on) but I never fail to be amazed at the number of people I see towing at over 70 with quite small towcars. Volvo state the max weight my Volvo can tow as 1800 Kg(!) but with a max speed of 45. A Volvo weighs about a ton and a half, so the usual "85% is good but 100% is the absolute maximum unless you have a Landrover" rule would limit one to about 1500 Kg and a lot of the big modern vans are right up to that once laden. My little van is probably only about 900 Kg laden. I'd love a US 5th Wheeler with wind-outs, but where would I keep it and what could I tow it with? And how long would it take me to get anywhere? |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: GUEST Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:14 AM Tony and Pearl, Sorry to hear about your accident. Good news that you were both able to walk away! Best wishes Paul & Tess |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: TheSnail Date: 29 Aug 07 - 07:23 AM Glad to hear your OK. As Liz said, be prepared for flashbacks when you're least expecting them. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Valmai Goodyear Date: 29 Aug 07 - 06:38 AM Golly, what a horrible incident. I'm delighted to hear you're both all right, but the shock's bound to leave a scar; come and recuperate in Sussex as soon as possible. Valmai (Lewes) |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Cats Date: 29 Aug 07 - 06:12 AM Tony and Pearl, So glad to hear you are OK. Big hugs from me and Jon. Ever thought of giving up with caravans and buying a motorhome instead? xxxxx |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:52 AM Tony and Pearl Sorry to hear about the crash but I'm glad you're both OK. Best wishes Mick |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: John MacKenzie Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:40 AM E Barnacle, apart from the burst tyre which was the cause of this one, the main reason for caravans and trailers snaking is wrong nose weight, particularly too little weight. Giok |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Liz the Squeak Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:31 AM Believe me, you're not over the shock - it'll creep up on you and maybe next week, maybe next month you'll be a gibbering wreck for a day or so... take care, both of you. LTS |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: The Admiral Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:20 AM Thanks for all the hugs and stuff, we're both very touched - you almost have me in tears - let alone Pearl! For the technically curious, yes we did have an Alco hitch and a stabiliser. A 'caravan' or ''van' is a 'trailor' across the 'oggin, and a 'snake' (fishtail?)is the condition when a tow for whatever reason, becomes unstable and starts to swing from side to side with increasing momentum until it starts to take tow vehicle with it. After that there's no hope or possibility of pulling out of it and where you end up is in the lap of the gods. In our case, straddling two lanes of the motorway with the 'van on it's side. All this, of course, happened in seconds. We think what caused the 'van to be thrown out of kilter (and this seemed to be the opinion of everyone we spoke to on site) was a burst tyre at 55/60 mph. Which is bloody annoying because the tyre that burst was a new one! The evidence was there in the badly damaged rim which had obviously been run on and the fact that Pearl smelt burning rubber just before the incident. Anyway, I hope that answers the questions. 36 hours later we're both still a little stiff and sore but I think we're both over the shock and a little bit more accepting of what has happened. Once again, thanks for all your kind thoughts... Love and Regards; Tony and Pearl |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Morticia Date: 29 Aug 07 - 04:15 AM Blimey guys, glad you are okay! |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Splott Man Date: 29 Aug 07 - 03:40 AM Phew! Glad you're both safe. Splott Man |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: MBSLynne Date: 29 Aug 07 - 02:44 AM Take it easy and rest up. You may be physically ok but you need to recover from the shock. I'm glad it wasn't so much worse Love Lynne |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: EBarnacle Date: 29 Aug 07 - 02:23 AM Glad you made it safely. How large is/was your tow vehicle? A common reason for the trailer taking control is towing beyond the capacity of the tow vehicle, especially in marginal conditions. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Liz the Squeak Date: 28 Aug 07 - 11:30 PM Don't do that to me!!! So glad to hear that you are both OK (and even gladder that I stayed put til Tuesday!), as said above, caravans can be replaced. Take care both of you, watch out for delayed shock and go to your docs or the local A&E if you get sudden headaches or dizziness and nausea. By the way Tony, I missed my hug. XXX LTS |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: HuwG Date: 28 Aug 07 - 09:12 PM Very glad to hear you're OK, and that everyone was so helpful. Best wishes. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Zany Mouse Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:53 PM Glad you're both OK. Les (Toad) once said that an accident isn't bad if you can walk away from it. How true. Incidentally, you can't keep on writing caravans off like this!!!! Luv Rhiannon |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Peace Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:31 PM Pics here. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Peace Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:29 PM I think it is what here would be called a trailer--hitched to the back of a vehicle that tows one's sleeping, dining and bathroom quarters. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Ebbie Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:26 PM Sorry to keep harping on this: So a caravan is not a Van, but a trailer? I like the term 'snaking', the undulation describes the phenomenon better than 'fishtailing'. It happened to me once when the stabilizer bar on my car broke as I made a turn. A wild moment or two. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Hawker Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:25 PM Scarry! Glad you are both OK. Cheers, Lucy |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Herga Kitty Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:18 PM What Hils said - I got a shock seeing the thread title, and am relieved that you're both OK! Love and hugs, Kitty xxx. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: skipy Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:00 PM Just found out in chat, so, so, pleased that you are o/k, will call you tommorrow eve. France soon! Skipy. P.S. You will need a medical before mission! |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Leadfingers Date: 28 Aug 07 - 06:49 PM Punctures on caravan tyres can be nasty ! Glad you are both OK ! Got the news at M & M 's this evening ! |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Crane Driver Date: 28 Aug 07 - 06:25 PM Hi Tony & Pearl Sorry to hear about your mishap: delighted to hear you're both OK. I imagine that fishtailing would be another way of describing what happens when a caravan gets out of sync with reality - fortunately we've never had it happen to us, we've got a 'Bulldog' stabiliser which is meant to prevent that, but . . . well, we've been lucky so far, I guess. Best wishes to you both, Andrew & Carole |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: My guru always said Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:53 PM So glad you're both unhurt!! What a terrible experience but you're irreplaceable and still with us, thank the Gods! That no other vehicles were involved is remarkable, delays for other motorists an inconvenience at the most. Love & hugs to you both! Hil xx |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: SINSULL Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:22 PM So sorry but glad you are OK. SINS |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:16 PM What is a "snaking" accident? Do you mean the trailer was fishtailing? |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Micca Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:12 PM After such a Great weekend too, (for which I thank you both) I am delighted you are both as Ok as possible, and I hope you remain so!!! |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: Emma B Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:11 PM Only got home myself this evening too, glad to hear you're both safe. |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: North/South Annie Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:10 PM Hi Tony & Pearl, hope you're now having brandy for the shock! A similar thing happened years ago to Brian and Mrs.no1. He said the public ( especially lorry drivers ) were very good then too. However he did get bad whiplash from it, so glad to hear you are both OK. Have just spoken to Alison who was very late back from Towersey - guess where she got held up??? Regards Annie & Alison |
Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed From: lady penelope Date: 28 Aug 07 - 04:59 PM Indeed Peace. (((((((Admiral & Mrs)))))) so glad you two are in one piece. Keep safe, eh? |