guitar string gauges

Subject: guitar string gauges
From: GUEST,dominick
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 04:13 PM

does the guage of guitar strings really have a difference in sound and what type of music you play on a acoustic guitar...if so what is the difference?

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 04:25 PM

Yes it does make a difference and that is the sound. However each type of guitar requires and recommends the string gauge most suitable for its build. Too heavy, bent neck. Too light thin sound. so better light than heavy. Jumbo or Dreadnaught a medium gauge, maybe heavy. Smaller bodied ie OM light gauge. My advice check manufacturer.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 04:56 PM

I use light gauge on a fylde dreadnought,and find it satisfactory.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: the button
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:01 PM

I use very light strings on top, with slightly thicker bass strings. I don't like a wound G cos you can't bend as easily. The set I use is an Ernie Ball "Hybrid Slinky," IIRC. Electric guitar strings, but what the hell.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: the button
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:06 PM

Mine's a Fender, btw -- quite a small guitar.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 06:35 PM

The fatter the string the fatter the sound... If you want that airy sound of Roger McGuinn's 12 string that was so much part of the Byrds sound then play light strings (.011 high e)...

If you want a fuller sound like from Creedence Calearwater Revival then play the heavies (.013 high e)...

Also, if you play bottle neck, play the heavies...

Yeah, I know this is purdy much generalized but if we ain't gonna get into comparing geetars or resonators it purdy much holds up...

BTW, the heavy guage strings will also work yer fingers more but that a different issue...

BTW, part 2... Not that anyone really cares but I play heavy guage strings but then again I play mostly bottleneck...

Bobert

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 06:56 PM

neck length makes a difference too..

so another generalization,

longer scale necks are usually matched with lighter strings..

shorter scale necks, heavier strings..

basically compensates to maintain fairly equal string tension
for ease of playing
from one guitar to another..

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: Brendy
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:16 PM

I have a customised Washburn, tuned DADGAD, on which I stretch a .60, .47, .39, .30, .17, & .17

Powerful acoustic sound, and when miked up, or plugged in takes care of the lower middle and bass frequencies in an Irish Trad set-up.

... works for me....

B.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:55 PM

Hmmmmmmm, Brendy???

Sounds like a cool set up...

Mind if I try settin' up my experiemental beater that way??? Them is some hard pullers, fir sure...

Is that an open tuning??? Is it slide-able??? If it is an opeen tuning what is it...

I like the 2 .017s... Kinda ballsy...

I'm sure that works yer fingers good...

Bobert

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: Fortunato
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 10:04 PM

Personally,I wouldn't use heavy guage strings on a valuable(?) guitar unless:

1)light or medium guage strings truly did not deliver a particular sound. I use a blend of medium, nickel wound strings on my Gallagher because it brings out the tone (it brings out the midrange and treble and balances the clear, bell like quality) I want and I monitor the condition of the neck and the top closely.

2)I use light phosphor bronze on my J-45 since medium strings don't change the tone, but merely make it slightly louder, and phosphor bronze mellows the natural treble of the guitar. thus I place less stress on the structure of the 1961 guitar

That said, each guitar is specially set up for those guages of strings and no other, in order to have the action low, fast and responsive without ringing frets.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: mattkeen
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 04:56 AM

Heavy gauge strings are fine on "expensive" guitars - unless they are badly made/very old or dodgy expensive guitars that is!

Martin Carthy uses a similar set to those quoting above (starting with a 17). He obviously plays an OOO size Martin and he is trying to compensate, tension wise, for the fact he has detuned down to CGCDGA.


I play an OM sized guitar tuned to CGCDGC and don't worry about the gauge - I think they are 12 to 53's


Generally I think the earlier comment "fatter strings, fatter tone" sounds right to me.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: van lingle
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 05:46 AM

Collings, for one, "strongly recommends" that you use nothing heavier than light gauge strings on their smaller models (C-10,000,00 & 0) as the size of the bridge on these models doesn't carry enough glue to support Mediums.

I recently went from Mediums to Lights on a 0000 sized guitar because of hand problems and found I actually prefer it's sound now. Of course, it's easier to play but it regained some high end sparkle and there is still ample bass, just can't hit to so hard it rattles. To each his own.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: the button
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 05:54 AM

Bloody hell, everyone apart from me appears to string their guitar with steel ropes rather than guitar strings. ;-)

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 06:08 AM

For the tuning C,G,C,D,G,A I use a standard Heavy Gauge set except for the fact that I use a second string on the top. When I say Heavy Gauge I do mean heavy. The gauges go from 59 or 60 on the 6th through 49(5th), 39(4th), 27(3rd), 18(2nd) and 14(1st). As I say what I do is ditch the 14 on the 1st and replace it with an 18.
Sounds like a lot of strain to put on the guitar but bear in mind that EVERY string is tuned down so there should be no trouble with the bridge. If you're nervous get someone to work out the strains for you. I've never had a problem in 40 years but I suppose there's always a first time! Seriously tho' I can't see that you will have a problem.
I like Heavy Gauge because the sound is better, the sustain is better and you have to work just a little harder. The rewards are there though - the rewards are there.

Martin

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 06:33 AM

Well I am not interested in playing in Martin Carthys tuning or sounding like him,excellent though he is.
I find light strings work very well,with my guitar,and for the tunings that I am using, double drop d,drop d, standard, in fact I was advised by an instrument maker not to use heavy strings on my particular guitar.
mind you none of them work very well on the Concertina.
yours, highly strung, Dick Miles

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 06:52 AM

I play 12/56 (in standard) on my two 1964 Hagstrom J-45s, and 12/53s on the fanstrutted Hagstrom J-45, the Mugen, the Martin OM-1 and the (long-ish scale) Morris. 10/47s on all the 12s. If you are thinking of putting 13s on a 12 - beware! There are sites out there that will tell you the tension of string guages at particular scale lengths and pitches. The idea of string guages is to wibble the top as much as possible - without breaking it!

I'd expect those lights of the Capn's to run the risk of not really getting the top of his guitar working - but of course if your guitar is custom built the top can be as light as you want. Graham the luthier under Andy's in Denmark street told me he built an acoustic once intended to work with 9s, for a bloke with arthritus, and he said it sounded fine, but the problem was that once he got the top to move with those strings on, the slightest tap would put a hole in the top of the guitar!

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: mattkeen
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 09:02 AM

Its not about Martin in particular its about tension.


I like to act all grown up (I am only 51); develop well worked out theories and experiments.... then do what Martin does! (Or pick the legend of your choice to go in there)

I have a cynical idea that guitar builders are just playing safe with their advice - I am sure if you are reasonable about the tension you are putting on the guitar then it will be fine.


Thanks for dropping by Martin

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 09:52 AM

I am sorry ,but I dont think the sound is any better with heavy gauge.
The sound is to some extent the result of the technique of the player and the wood that the instrument is made from.
The problem that I see with playing in Martins tuning,Is that it becomes difficult to produce anything better than himself in that tuning,and or to take a song and produce a better or different accompaniment.
for example ,I have recently learned Lovely Joan,with a guitar accompaniment,I have produced a good accompaniment by using double drop d[Martin uses cgcdga],That is my own work,and owes nothing to Martin,in fact Martin suggests that the song starts on G9[Although he says that these chords are harmonic clues and not to be treated slavishly],well my version uses a d modal chord not a g9,and several other different chords,.[there are moreways than one to skin a cat]
I suspect that if I had used Martins tuning,I would not have been able to pruduce anything original that wasnt heavily influenced by Martin Carthy,in my opinion a pointless exercise, for a professional musician.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: Brendy
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 11:34 AM

Tear away, Bobert. It'll probably take a bit of getting used to; the grooves on the top of my fingers on my left hand have been permanent now for many years, but I think you'll like the set-up

The guitar never comes out of DADGAD, though (6th-1st), or DAGDAD (1st-6th).
Slideable, surely! Take the G down to F#, and you have the 'E' Tuning, 2 frets back (D Major, in other words).

I also have a wee Cort Classical, on which I stick the Pro-Arte Composites that D'Addario manufacture, and I take that to every tuning under the sun.

My Morris 9 String takes a set of Phos-Bronze Mediums, but I sometimes double up on the G strings with 2 X 24s instead of the .24 and an .09.
This guitar was made for bottleneck, and although not a huge exponent of the art, every time I take it down to 'G' and run the slide up the neck, you can hear its quality.

B.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: Brendy
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 11:51 AM

Apropos Martin's comments above; he does stress that every string is tuned down, so the overall strain is less.

My 'A', 'D', & 'G' stay at pitch, but I also have them running past the bridge to a tail piece, so that might be an issue, Bobert, if ye're using a standard pegging method

DAGDAD, by the way, is a Dsus4 chord.

B.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 01:14 PM

I must go and find that table of tensions.... it's on the inthernet somewhere.

One issue that does bother me is that if the pull is more on one side of the neck than the other there is twist as well as bend on the neck...

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 06:07 PM

Ah - we have had this before, and it leads here

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: synbyn
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 03:27 AM

I tend to use standarg gauge, ie 4'8 1/2" on my Stanier, but have used West Country tuning like Tom Brown on my Brunel... 7' I think. 23 1/2 inches seems about right for anything Welsh, it gives you that crispy, snuffly sound... I'll get my anorak...

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: redsnapper
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 07:10 AM

I play several types of instrument, open-tuned guitar and mandolin family, and use custom string gauges on each.

I like to try and get a balance of tension across the strings and also a tension appropriate to the design of the instrument, e.g. bracing, top stiffness.

I've found this string gauge applet very useful in putting together appropriate sets.

RS

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 07:27 AM

synbyn,would you be kind enough to specify what West Country tuning is.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: mattkeen
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 07:30 AM

Captain Birdseye

I take your point that certain tunings can have a "signature" sound, and that some of this tunings are strongly associated with certain players - the Carthy tunings being an obvious case in point. However, nobody ever accused me of sounding like Django Reinhart when I play in standard tuning, or Ry Cooder in open D or whatever. There is, as you know, more to it than that.

I don't really mind if people spot my influences actually, and traditional music for me was always about taking the "pass" (influences and all) from somebody else and then adding your own input/story/personality to it and putting that into the stream.

Heavier strings do sound different, I can't understand how you don't hear that.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: mattkeen
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 07:32 AM

Aplogies - you said that you don't think heavier sounds any "better".

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 07:51 AM

mattkeen ,perhaps there is a difference between being a clone of someone who is alive and still performing excellently[MartinCarthy],and someone who is dead [Django],
As a professional musician ONE is not going to be booked if you are a Martin Carthy clone,why book a clone when you can have the real thing,secondly it is creatively bankrupt to copy someone slavishly.
I am not saying that you are doing this,and there is nothing wrong with having influences provided you put something of yourself in.
What I am trying to say is that if one takes Carthys songs,and uses his tunings,it is quite difficult to come up with something creatively different and at the same time superior[I am speaking from my own personal experience[you may be a better man than me Gunga Din].[this would not apply to songs he has not performed]
as regards tunes this does not probably apply[he has not recorded many tunes],and his tuning[or the variant dadeae] is now called Irish tuning,dadeae and cgcdgd,are really one and the same.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: mattkeen
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 08:07 AM

Agreed

In any case if one is trying to be a clone of Martin then you are on a hiding to nothing!

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: mattkeen
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 08:23 AM

(Sorry this is soooo off topic)
Captain
One way in which I have tried to be creatively different is to use is to write songs based on others material. For instance I recently put a John Clare poem to a tune that I wrote, and the tune itself was based on the opening to Turtle Dove.
A demo of it is on my page on this web page (if you are interested)

www.krcollective.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=9

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 09:23 AM

I think West Country Tuning goes ERR - OO - AAR - OO - AAR - AY!

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: GUEST,doc.tom
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 10:26 AM

I appear to stand accused of West Country tunings - but I don't know what they are either (Richard's attempts at Mummersetshire aside - cos they're definitely NOT). Where, O where, are people getting thier 58/60 6th strings? - I could really do with them on the bottom of the Kalamazoo: 56s buzz like blazes when they're down to D on such a short scale.

Tom

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: Brendy
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 01:12 PM

Ask your friendly neighbourhood music shop to order a few in for you.
...or, from somewhere like HERE!!

B.

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 05:33 PM

the button

I don't use steel ropes either

CC

Subject: RE: guitar string gauges
From: the button
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 06:24 PM

Good man. I'm quite happy to trade the ability to bend up a major third for a bit of "bottom." Plus I quite like the dulcimer-like quality you get with thinner strings, and the greater variety of tones you can get by playing different distances from the soundhole. Not to mention the wider range of left-hand-only hammer-on/pull-off stuff you can do.