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Freygish Scale?

John E 07 Sep 07 - 10:44 PM
jeffp 07 Sep 07 - 10:59 PM
Amos 08 Sep 07 - 01:21 AM
John E 09 Sep 07 - 07:46 PM
PMB 10 Sep 07 - 05:18 AM
The Sandman 10 Sep 07 - 05:36 AM
The Sandman 10 Sep 07 - 05:39 AM
GUEST,Jonny Sunshine 10 Sep 07 - 07:33 AM
GUEST,Mooh in limbo 10 Sep 07 - 09:00 AM
GUEST,Jonny Sunshine 10 Sep 07 - 11:21 AM
GUEST,Mooh in limbo 10 Sep 07 - 12:15 PM
GUEST,Mooh in limbo 10 Sep 07 - 12:16 PM
Amos 10 Sep 07 - 12:31 PM
The Sandman 10 Sep 07 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,Mooh in limbo 10 Sep 07 - 01:15 PM
wysiwyg 10 Sep 07 - 03:26 PM
GUEST,Don Firth 10 Sep 07 - 04:43 PM
The Sandman 10 Sep 07 - 04:49 PM
Stewart 10 Sep 07 - 10:13 PM
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Subject: Freygish Scale?
From: John E
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 10:44 PM

I've heard of this, and understand it to be the basis for klezmer. Can anyone tell me more (or set me straight about it)?


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: jeffp
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 10:59 PM

A little information in wikipedia.

More at http://www.budowitz.com/pages/Modes.html.


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 07 - 01:21 AM

More commonly called the Phrygian scale. E.g., flamenco and Arabic music both feature it.


A


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: John E
Date: 09 Sep 07 - 07:46 PM

So . . . how would you figure chords to this? It seems to favor minor chords. I have in mind a particular tune I've heard that I want to contrive an accompaniment to. Thanks, sj


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: PMB
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 05:18 AM

You'll find some examples to follow on the Manchester Klezmer site- PDFs of lots of tunes, maybe even the one you're looking for, most of them with chord suggestions. sadly Steve Landin, who runs the site, has rather lost interest in it in recent years, so it's not been updated for a good while.


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 05:36 AM

THE Phrygian Scale is also the basis for some heavy rock music.
a common progression in flamenco[of course not the only one is]Aminor ,gMAJOR F MAJOR Eminor.,does this occur in kletzmer music.


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 05:39 AM

sorry i meant Emajor [not minor]


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 07:33 AM

The Phrygian scale is a mode of the major scale. If you were to play a scale of C major (all the white notes on the piano, no sharps or flats), starting on C, you get C major. Starting on E gives you a phyrgian scale.

Remember that "phrygian" refers to the type of the scale, not necessarily the actual notes. If you started a phrygian scale on F# for instance, you'd have an F# (obviously), and a C#- the corresponding major scale is D.

The chords would be the same as in the major scale. So, going back to the E phrygian scale, the chords would be C, F, G, Am, Dm, Em & B7b5. The difference of course is that you would consider your Em to be the starting point.


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: GUEST,Mooh in limbo
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 09:00 AM

My understanding of the Freygish is limited to some cursory jazz knowledge, but it's not really the same as the Phrygian mode, is it?

Somewhere in it there is an augmented interval, the third maybe, and it makes for a lovely sound.

In other words the Phrygian intervals are H-W-W-W-H-W-W, whereby the Freygish intervals are H-W1/2-H-W-H-W-W. H=half step or semi-tone, W=whole step or tone.

Or am I messed up?

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 11:21 AM

Think you're right there Mooh, A Freygish scale is indeed not the same as the Phrygian. The third note is a major third. I never knew it had a name! You learn something every day.

I tend to think of scales as a set of intervals relative to the root, rather than the tone-tone-semitone thing (probably because they tried to explain scales to me that way at school way before I was ready to understand them), of course it's another way of looking at the same thing, that way the Freygish scale would be:
root, min2, maj3, perf4, perf5, min6, min7
the big gap between the minor 2nd and major 3rd gives it a very distinctive sond.

The Freygish scale in E would be the same notes as A harmonic minor, but starting on an E:
E F G# A B C D E

That would give you the main chords of E(major), Am, Dm, F major), plus various flavours of 7th and dimished chords.


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: GUEST,Mooh in limbo
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 12:15 PM

The fifth mode of the A harmonic minor...Cool. Thanks.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: GUEST,Mooh in limbo
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 12:16 PM

Edit out "A"...The fifth mode on the harmonic minor. Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 12:31 PM

Sorry--I goofed.

Definitions of Freygish on the Web:

The Phrygian dominant scale constructed by raising the third of the Phrygian scale, and is the fifth mode of the harmonic minor scale, the fifth being the dominant.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freygish




A


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 12:59 PM

Turkish Music uses a variation on the phrygian mode,If one took EFGABCDE which is the PHRYGIAN MODE,it would become e fg#abcde.try it out,it sounds very arabic.


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: GUEST,Mooh in limbo
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 01:15 PM

Now to drive the boys in the band crazy with it!

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 03:26 PM

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh................. glad YOU guys know what all this gibberish means! :~) I can only HEAR it.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: GUEST,Don Firth
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 04:43 PM

Phygian mode is used a lot in flamenco because it lies very well on the guitar. A typical chord progression in first position (using open-string chords) is Am – G – F (full bar) – E. If you listen to much flamenco, you'll hear it a lot.

Also, that progression works well with the verse of Greensleeves:

A-[Am] las, my love, you [G] do me wrong
To [F] cast me off dis-[E] courteously,
For [Am] have lovéd [G] you so long,
De-[F] lighting [E] in your [Am] company.

Same progression on the chorus, using C instead of Am, but returning to an Am at the end.

Greensleeves is not in Phrygian mode (some notes don't fit the scale—it leans more toward harmonic minor with hints of Dorian mode), but the progression works. Very "guitaristic."

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 04:49 PM

I agree Don,in fact I mentioned that progression[ Aminor,Gmajor Fmajor E minor] in an earlier post.


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Subject: RE: Freygish Scale?
From: Stewart
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 10:13 PM

In Klezmer and eastern European gypsy music a distinctive scale is used with a wide interval of three half tones (as noted by ≡)(= denotes a whole tone; and - a half tone). This is the Freygish mode in Klezmer music (D-Eb≡F#-G=A-Bb=C=D), or the Hungarian minor in gypsy music (C=D-Eb≡F#-G-Ab≡B-C). This is like a minor scale, but with a wide gap between the 2nd/3rd, or 3rd/4th and 6th/7th notes.

Cheers, S. in Seattle


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