Paying to have open mike session

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 11:38 AM

When a copy is made of a music recording, it generates a music royalty which should be paid to the person who wrote that music. Thus a pressing plant ought to insist on MCPS (Mechanical Copyright Protection Society) registration and show this as an imprint on the packaging, and reputable ones do.

It is from these imprints that retail outlets inform the publisher how many copies have been sold and these are to artists.

There are, however, those producers who get round this by running off CD-R copies rather than press from masters, and these are the recordings which will not, obviously, show up on MCPS returns.

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 11:37 AM

I did the yellowbellies 1 and 2 CD's and paid for the number of CD's that I planned to produce and sell. I think I paid about £80 one off fee for MCPS for a charity CD producing no more than 500 CD's.
There is a scale based on the type of Cd etc.

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: jeffp
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 11:21 AM

Are you sure that mechanical fees are based on sales? In the US, mechanicals are paid based on copies made.

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 11:19 AM

Unfortunately, we still do the event-by-event returns. I say unfortunately, but it's my administrator who deals with it, bless her.

For us, it's cheaper: the percentage we'd have to pay if we didn't do the returns is substantially higher than if we fill out the forms - hence the forms get filled out.

Dunno if it's to do with differnet charges applying to different sizes of venue, but that's my assumption.

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 11:02 AM

Yes, an MCPS charge dependent on sales as returned by the publisher annually.
This may be split between publisher and artist (if different) according to the terms of contract.

A venue nowadays usually/always (Ruth?) pays for a blanket annual PRS licence as in broadcasting and no longer completes PRS returns. So going round all your participants asking them exactly what they're going to do at your event no longer applies. It is the venue that is licensed, not the individual concert/session.

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 10:50 AM

Sorry, Diane - I confused the issue slightly. When using the CD example, I was trying to say that traditional songs, the sort that would be listed as trad/arr on CDs, are not subject to PRS. Recording rights are different, of course (and I'm not so good with them). But Santa, if a song is traditional, it is not subject to a PRS charge if it is sung. But Diane says there IS a charge if a traditional song is recorded - i bow to her superior knowledge.

Arrangements are not subject to PRS.

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: Santa
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 10:39 AM

Excuse my ignorance, but it is still not completely clear to me.

Fees are collected even if the songs sung have no known composer. I accept that few folk clubs/sessions could or would operate with such a restriction, but some might. If I formed The Society for Appreciation of Child's Ballads, would dues be required before anyone sang at a meeting? And those dues would go to boost the income of who? (Whom?)

Fees are paid to the songwriters/composers in proportion to sales, not performances. OK, I can see how it has to work that way, but sales stop after a certain time. How is the pooled money shared out? Is that based on total sales? Sales in any given year? Do performers have to keep rereleasing their songs in order to get paid for them?

How is the money split between songwriter and arranger?

How does it work with arrangements of traditional tunes? Do they have to be described as Trad/Arranged (performer on CD), so that the money goes to the performer, or who gets the money otherwise? This question arises from tales (perhaps misunderstood) told in other threads, of performer(s) receiving money from traditional rhymes, claimed by their arrangement.

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 09:50 AM

Sorry, should have been clearer.
A trad/arr song/tune on a CD attracts mechanicals, a payment which becomes due at point of sale, based on returns from retailers to the publisher.
This is actually handled by the MCPS, a close relative of the PRS, in fact living in the same house I think.

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 09:43 AM

Arrangements are not covered by PRS, and songs listed as trad/arr on CDs are not subject to PRS.

PRS ensures money goes to the people who have written the songs. This is their "product"; they get paid when it is used. If a song has no attributable source, it is not subject to PRS.

As someone has said, you can pay the annual PRS membership fee to cover you if you run a pub or club, which is cheaper than paying per event.

"its sad when musicians want to protect their music so much..at the end of the day, they should remember their roots."

Songs are registered with PRS, who then collect the money due from the venue, regardless of its size or profit margin. This is not a choice made by the indivisual artists. They can't say, "Collect my rights from that big venue, but leave that little folk club alone."

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 09:37 AM

It seems a bit of an odd set-up if the session apparently refunds the licensee for the PRS fee. I wonder if the same happens in respect of the PEL, or is the OP confusing the two?

If the song is of no known authorship it clearly cannot be PRS (or whichever body applies depending on country) -registered. If, however the arranger's work has been registered with the appropriate administrator, s/he will get the due fee.

The PRS doesn't (as far as I'm aware) go round looking for unregistered writers/arrangers to hand out payments. It's up to authors to register their work.

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: Santa
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 09:20 AM

Diane: Whilst agreeing with your final statement, I do have some queries about how this works. Does it mean that a session with only traditional songs will not have to pay the PRS? If it does, why? It is not using the work of any songwriter receiving monies from the PRS.

Surely each singer will make their own arrangement, to a greater or lesser extent. How is the line drawn in such a matter? If I may illustrate this with examples.

My wife sings the traditional ballad, the Rolling of the Stones, basically in an arrangement by the Canadian singer Eileen McGann. The songwriter can receive no payment for the use of the song: is this waived, and if so why not? Eileen McGann can presumably be paid for the use of her arrangement, but how does she receive this?

Meg also sings the recent song Jenny Greenteeth, by Nicole Murray (Cloudstreet) but has altered this to match her range and abilities. Nicole Murray deserves the songwriting monies, but what about the arrangement? What changes are required to make it a different arrangement, and hence avoid charges?

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 09:01 AM

The PRS collects fees from venues where live music is performed. These represent Performing Rights and the monies are redistributed to the owners of these rights, i.e. the composers and arrangers of the music performed.

You have beer delivered to your pub, do you not, for which the brewery subsequently invoices you and thus pays the people who worked to produce it.

Are you saying the songwriters should work for nothing?

Subject: RE: Paying to have open mike session
From: Girl Friday
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 08:46 AM

As I understand it, PRS membership covers any music played in pubs etc. You can have any live performers for the one annual fee. If it's any good, your open mike could develop into a fully fledged folk club, andshould then take more over the bar.You could also book live acts at weekends.

Subject: Paying to have open mike session
From: Shaneo
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 07:01 AM

The fallowing was copy and pasted from my web site's guestbook.
I find it hard to believe that The Preforming Rights Society would look for money from a publican for having an open mike session,
Is this true ?


hi love this site so much, i send it to everyone. i run the smallest
pub in rugby, England. we have an acoustic/open mike night. all our boys n girls get a beer for their troubles but we have to pay a fee to the performing rights society which far outweighs any profit we might make. its sad when musicians want to protect their music so much..at the end of the day, they should remember their roots. we all picked up a guitar and played someone else's song!!!music is the only free entity left on this earth, keep it, enjoy it but most importantly...share it with others