Tune Req: The Stolen Gun (Davis Hays)

Subject: Recognize this chorus?
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 04:05 PM

I'm wondering if this local (NY, USA) song from the 1850's was written to a popular tune of the day. I have only text and no hint of tune. The chorus is:

At Black Brook forge the gun was holed
The boys all laughed to hear it told
Ha! ha! ha! what lots of fun
For the brave boys of Wilmington

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus?
From: MMario
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 04:07 PM

is scans to "little brown jug"

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 05:19 PM

Hi, Dave - can you give us the entire text and tell us where you found it, just so we know?
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus?
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 07:34 PM

Joe,

The entire text would take days to type out, as it has pages and pages of verses. I'd be glad to photocopy it and mail you a copy if you'd like though. I don't think the verses would help much in identifying the "parent" song though, if there is one. It comes from the Adirondack Mt collecting of Edith Cutting.

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 09:37 PM

If you actually want an answer but don't want to quote the text, what you need to do is tell us at least

• The title of the song



• The first line



• The book or other publication in which you found it



• Any background information provided by the collector (names, dates etc)

The person asking the question is (by definition) not best placed to know what information will or won't help others. Always provide everything you can from the outset.

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 09:56 PM

Hi, Dave - I sent my snailmail address in a personal message. If you send it, I'll see if I can scan and post it. I didn't find any songs mentioning Wilmington in either the Roud Index or the Traditional Ballad Index.
Seems like it might be a good idea to explore the collection of Edith Cutting. Too bad it isn't available online.
-Joe-

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For more on Edith Cutting, click here.

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 10:24 PM

What leads you to believe it is a SONG?

Perhaps, it is verse, i.e. "Charge of the Light Brigade" "Paul Revere's Ride" and was never intended as song. "Song of the Shirt" was never intended to be sung, even in poverty and dirt.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

(JOE - point me again - towards the old-old thread of songs needing tunes.)

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 10:30 PM

BTW ----- DAVE!!!! WELCOME to the MUDCAT

It is wonderful to have an inquisative AMERICAN on board - asking AMERICAN questions... about things... like.... canals....and songs....and tunes.

It will be a bleak voyage this winter - if we don't get a couple more of your kind to sign onto the roster.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 10:49 PM

Oh, Dave's been around for a good while, Gargoyle. If you check his posting history, you'll see he's given us some valuable information.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus? - brave boys of Wilmington
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 11:26 PM

Dave Ruch, you have raised our curiosity- please give us at least the verses surrounding the quoted verse, and details on the song- or poem- the form suggests the former.

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus? - brave boys of Wilmin
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 08:29 AM

It looks familiar to me, but I don't know where I might have heard it or seen it. I rather think I've heard it. George Ward might be a good person to ask.

Malcolm Douglas is right about needing more information. Even if it won't lead to finding information immediately, it might spark a vague memory upon which others can build.

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus? - brave boys of Wilmington
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 09:57 AM

Sorry folks, I obviously did not ask my original question very clearly, although I think MMario knew what I was trying to get at.

I am NOT asking if anyone has heard this song about the brave boys of Wilmington. What I'm asking is - does this chorus RESEMBLE a chorus from a better known song that you've seen or heard (i.e. was this local chorus written "to the tune of ......")?

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus? - brave boys of Wilmington
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 10:08 AM

This chorus seems to have raised other questions besides my own. Joe, I've received your pm and will be glad to send you a photocopy of the text, which is taken from a file box of Edith Cutting's collecting (unpublished) that I am working with in conjunction with a forthcoming website on traditional music (songs and tunes) of the Adirondacks.

Gargoyle, I'm fairly certain this was written as a song because of the chorus quoted above, which is inserted after each of 16 verses.

For those who've asked, here are the two verses surrounding the first chorus:

The Black Brook folks to celebrate
July 4th in a proper state
Thought it quite right to steal a gun
So posted off to Wilmington

Cho: At Black Brook forge the gun was holed
The boys all laughed to hear it told
Ha! ha! ha! what lots of fun
For the brave boys of Wilmington

Hank Martin's asses one dark night
Were sent to put the matter right
He did not know, the foolish elf
He soon would be an ass himself

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus? - brave boys of Wilmington
From: MMario
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 10:23 AM

Well - verses scan to "little brown jug" as well - but that wasn't written until 1869 according to wikipedia. However they could *both* have been set to a prior tune...

The Levy sheet Music collection has an 1869 copy "composed and arranged by BETTA."

and the cover states "As sung by Everybody" - which to me means the publishing company printed music to a song that was already widely known. I may be completly off base.

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus? - brave boys of Wilmington
From: M.Ted
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 12:25 PM

It also scans, and perhaps better, to "Sipping Cider Through a Straw" which is a melody that has been much used for topical songs--

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus? - brave boys of Wilmington
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 03:18 PM

Thanks MMario and M.Ted. I'm not familiar with "Sipping Cider Through a Straw", but I'll be looking for it.

Joe, your text is in the mail.

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus? - brave boys of Wilmin
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 09:51 PM

I'm fairly certain this was written as a song because of the chorus quoted above, which is inserted after each of 16 verses.

Hate to bust your bubble...but

CHORUS - Repeated refrains is not the signiture of a song- the technique is as ancient as Homer or any used by the Greeks, Romans or following baladieers.

"On again, on again, rode the......

"The highway came riding, riding, riding up to the old

"Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
With such name as `Nevermore.'
Then the bird said, `Nevermore.
Of "Never-nevermore."'
She shall press, ah, nevermore!
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

Dude - give up - you cannot provide your VOLUNTARY Helpers - with a nary a lick of foundation. I have scoured the bookshelfs and a library....

Look Optical Charactor Recognition is outstanding in today's world.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Mr. Joe - you ever receive "will be glad to send you a photocopy" ???

---

Sure - very rarely does someone fail to send me something they promised. I admit I've failed to post a tune or two when they've sent me notation, but I'm reasonably reliable myself.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Recognize this chorus? - brave boys of Wilmington
From: M.Ted
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 10:12 PM

Gargoyle, Homer seems to have sung his epics, as, indeed, epics are still sung in some parts of the Balkans today. And Dave has said that his song is one of a number that Edith Cutting collected but have never been published, so it is not likely anywhere else.

Dave-When you hear it, you'll recognize it--it is one of those melodies that never goes away.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE STOLEN GUN (Davis Hays)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 11:57 PM

Well, Dave's copy came today. He didn't tell me it was handwritten. Here's what the OCR does with the first page:

I.
fl J&__ Jw
_ __- __ _
c. £ '
77 p- %( -L.
& -L ?•• ..
a--. I-a-f,- S
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74 t2 - 4LaI -4J /
w-.L. -- '—-- '--


That OCR sure is helpful, eh?
I'll have it typed this evening.
-Joe the Wonder Typist-

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The Stolen Gun
(Davis Hays)

The Black Brook folks to celebrate
July 4th in proper state,
Thought it quite right to steal a gun
So posted off to Wilmington.

CHORUS:
At Black Brook forge the gun was holed
The boys all laughed to hear it told
Ha! Ha! Ha! What lots of fun
For the brave boys of Wilmington.

Hank Martin’s asses, one dark night,
Were sent to put the matter right,
He did not know, the foolish elf,
He soon would be an ass himself.

CHORUS

When Ralph, the giant, let the throng
To move this heavy gun alone
He made a small mistake or two
But that for him was nothing new.

CHORUS

Bill Noyes who sometime makes a noise
Was one among the other boys
Who thought no sin to steal a gun
Or rob the folks of Wilmington.

CHORUS

And Kilby with much in his head
Encouraged larceny, ‘tis said
And though possessed of manners fine
Fell in with Henry’s base design.

CHORUS

But in this world in spite of Martin
Many things are quite unsartin’
As Hank soon found when war did brew
Around his ears a mighty stew.

CHORUS

It was on glorious freedom’s day
When men rejoice and children play
The people of Black Brook did grieve
The stolen gun so soon should leave.

CHORUS


Ha! Ha! The bells did ring in vain
As they shall never ring again.
That the gun might speak the louder
‘Twas taken with a charge of powder.

CHORUS

Says Pat to John, “What mighty call
He ye down here these people all””
Says John to Pat of Wilmington,
“What call had ye to steal our gun?”

CHORUS

But Henry did not get much ease
When bribery failed to purchase peace.
Five dollars and a keg of powder
But made the bulgine speak the louder.

CHORUS

When Robert and his mighty host
E’er they the sandy plain had crossed,
Gave one loud shout to pay arrears
They saw Black Brook dissolved in tears.

CHORUS


But Hank somehow must have a gun,
Well as the boys of Wilmington,
So chased the country up and down
And stopped at last at Betsy-town.

CHORUS

And with his pockets lined with cash
To have a gun he made a dash.
One hundred eighty he did thrive
And got a gun worth forty five.

CHORUS


To thriving (thieving?) there must be a stop
By those who show their broughting-up.
Would it not be a pretty story
To send Black Brook to Dannemora?

CHORUS

The host that there would congregate
Within those heavy walls of state
Would it let loose, with nimble feet
Steal all the guns at Watervliet.

CHORUS

So now we’ll close this little song
Regretting that it’s quite so long.
And having well paid up the score
We hope Black Brook will steal no more.

CHORUS

Collected by Edith Cutting. Cutting's notes say the following:

In 1850, great preparations had been made to celebrate the Fourth [of July] in Wilmington. During the night of the Third, the gun was stolen. For the particulars of the affair the historian of the times published the chronicles of Wilmington and Black Brook.

Thanks to Dave Ruch, who found the text.

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Dave, we may have to send you to remedial summer camp for not knowing Sipping Cider through a Straw. The "Sippin'" tune would indeed work with "The Stolen Gun."
-Joe-