|
|||||||
Origins:Jickson Johnson/Johnson Jinkson/3 Butchers DigiTrad: DIXON AND JOHNSON TWO BUTCHERS Related thread: Three Butchers: WHY the naked woman? (82) |
Share Thread
|
Subject: Lyr Req: 'Jickson Johnson' by Ian & Sylvia From: SouthernCelt Date: 22 Sep 07 - 10:39 AM The revived request on "National Hotel" reminded me of one I've been meaning to ask about A bit of history: I & S had a committment to do two MGM albums. The first was Lovin' Sound which had Nat'l Hotel and a number of others that are fairly well-known among I & S fans. The second album called Full Circle, which Ian insisted be more under their control, probably had fewer songs that made it into fans' I & S favorites but did give Sylvia a chance to do a little more of her type of music. She went on to re-issue at least one ("Woman's World) of hers on a solo album after they split. A really up-tempo, somewhat bluegrassy, folk-tale sounding song on the second album, "Jickson Johnson", is probably my favorite from the whole album. Sylvia sings the lyrics but the mix of instruments (heavy on the fiddle)overpowers a lot of the words making them hard to understand. I had forgotten all about this song until I got the double album reissue and heard it again. Anyone have the lyrics? I've done web searches a couple of times but never came up with more than a reference to the album containing the song, never lyrics. The song begins: Johnson he went riding as fast as he could ride When he thought he heard a woman, he heard a woman cry... after that every line has at least one difficult to understand word and trying to figure them out takes away from the enjoyment of the overall sound of the song. Anyone? SC |
Subject: ADD: Johnson Jinkson From: 12-stringer Date: 22 Sep 07 - 12:56 PM Mine is on vinyl and I don't have a working phonograph, but cf the one in the 1964 "Peggy Seeger Songbook" (Oak), from which it derives. As I recall from last hearing it, the I&S lyrics are very close, if not quite identical, to these. Johnson Jinkson Johnson he was riding along As fast as he could ride When he thought he heard a woman, He heard a woman cry. Johnson getting off his horse And proceeding to look all around Till he came upon a woman With her hair pinned to the ground. Woman, dearest woman, Who has brought you here for spite? Who has brought you here this morning With your hair pinned to the ground? It were three bold and struggling men With sword keen in hand Who have brought me here this morning With my hair pinned to the ground. Johnson being a man of his own And being a man in bold He took off his overcoat To cover her from the cold. Johnson getting on his horse And the woman getting on behind Down that long and lonesome highway Their fortunes for to find. They rode on and further on And nothing could they spy When she put her fingers to her ears And gave three shivering cries. Out sprang three bold and struggling men With swords keen in hand who commanded Johnson Commanded him to stand. I'll stop then, said Johnson, I'll stand then, said he, But I never was in my life Afraid of any three. Johnson killing two of them Not watching the woman behind While he was upon the other one She stabbed him from behind. The day was clear and a market day And the people all passing by Who saw this awful murder And saw poor Johnson die. Ultimate source of this version is a late 1930s field recording, made at a migrant labor camp in Visalia, CA, of Troy Cambron, vocal with guitar. The original Cambron performance can be found in the "Voices from the Dust Bowl" program at American Memory and is worth the search. |
Subject: ADD Version: Johnson-Jinkson From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Sep 07 - 02:44 PM The American Memory Collection has two pages, a recording and a text, of the song: Good song. -Joe- Johnson-Jinkson Johnson he was riding along Johnson getting off his horse Woman, dearest woman It were three bold and struggling men Johnson bein' a man of his own Johnson getting on his horse They were riding all along Out sprung three bold and struggling men I'll stop them, said Johnson Johnson killing two of them The day was free and a market day Alternate title: "Two/Three Butchers." Source: Voices from the Dust Bowl: The Charles L. Todd and Robert Sonkin Migrant Worker Collection, 1940-1941 My transcription is just a little different from that on the American Memory Collection Website. Recorded as "Jickson Johnson" on the Ian & Sylvia Full Circle album, 1968; and as Jinkson Johnson on Mike Seeger's True Vine CD. Both recordings are very similar to the transcriptions 12-stringer and I posted. |
Subject: Origins: Three Butchers From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Sep 07 - 03:47 PM I'm surprised we haven't had discussion on this song before. The Digital Tradition has at least two versions, and the Traditional Ballad Index has a long entry: Three Butchers, The (Dixon and Johnson) [Laws L4]DESCRIPTION: Three butchers are riding when they hear a woman calling out. They find her naked and bound. They free her; she blows a whistle which summons robbers. Two butchers yield, but Johnson fights and is close to winning when the woman stabs him from behindAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: c. 1678 KEYWORDS: outlaw trick death fight FOUND IN: US(Ap,MA,NE,SE,So) Canada(Mar,Newf) Britain(England(South),Scotland) Ireland REFERENCES (21 citations): Laws L4, "The Three Butchers" Randolph 97, "Dixon and Johnson" (1 text, 1 tune) Randolph/Cohen, pp. 74-75, "Dixon and Johnson" (1 text, 1 tune -- Randolph's 97) FSCatskills 111, "The Three Jolly Butchers" (1 text, 1 tune) Kennedy 335, "Three Jolly Sportsmen" (1 text, 1 tune) Copper-SoBreeze, pp. 254-255, "Young Butcher Boy" (1 text, 1 tune) JHCox 86, "Jackison and Dickison" (1 text) SharpAp 60, "The Three Butchers" (4 texts, 4 tunes) SHenry H185, pp. 128-129, "The Three Huntsmen/Wilson, Gilmore, and Johnson" (1 text, 1 tune) MacSeegTrav 24, "The Three Butchers" (1 text, 1 tune) BrownII 80, "The Three Butchers" (2 texts) Chappell-FSRA 46, "Good Woman" (1 fragment) Creighton/Senior, pp. 120-122, "The Three Jovial Huntsmen" (2 texts, 2 tunes, with the first being a peculiar variant in which the huntsmen all resist and Johnson kills the deceitful woman) Creighton-NovaScotia 97, "The Three Gallant Huntsmen" (1 text, 1 tune; this resembles the Creighton/Senior version in which the huntsmen win the battle) Greenleaf/Mansfield 37, "Johnson" (2 texts, 2 tunes) Peacock, pp. 817-818, "Jolly Butchermen" (1 text, 1 tune) Karpeles-Newfoundland 33, "The Three Butchers" (2 texts, 2 tunes) Leach-Labrador 59, "Three Boocher Lads" (1 text, 1 tune) Silber-FSWB, p. 223, "Johnson" (1 text) BBI, ZN782, "Did you never hear of worthy butchers three"; ZN1365, "I'll tell you a story of lovely butchers three" DT 325, BUTCHER2 BUTCHER3* Roud #17 RECORDINGS: Bob Scarce, "Three Jolly Sportsmen" (on FSB8) Pete Seeger, "The Three Butchers" (on PeteSeeger16) BROADSIDES: Bodleian, Harding B 28(206), "The Three Butchers," W. Wright (Birmingham), 1820-1827; also 2806 c.16(200), Harding B 11(4230), Firth c.17(1), Harding B 11(876), Firth c.17(2), Harding B 25(1901), Harding B 15(330b), Harding B 16(288a), "[The] Three Butchers"; Harding B 11(1767), Firth c.17(3), "Ips, Gips, and Johnson" or "The Three Butchers[!]" ALTERNATE TITLES: Jinkson Johnson The Three Riders The Jolly Butchermen File: LL04 Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2007 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. A Roud Number Search (#17) brings up lots of results. Vance Randolph collected Dixon and Johnson from Miss Mary Drain of Farmington, Arkansas, on December 9, 1941. The Digital Tradition transcription is a close copy of #97 from Randolph's Ozark Folksongs. |
Subject: ADD: The Three Butchers From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Sep 07 - 04:15 PM John Roberts and Tony Barrand recorded "The Three Butchers" on their A Present from the Gentlemen: A Pandora's Box of English Folk Songs (1992). The notes say their version is from the singing of Henry Burstow. Lucy Broadwood noted it down from him in 1894, and included it in her English Traditional Songs and Carols.. I hope they don't mind if I post the lyrics from their Website:
Anything more you can tell us about the song, John? |
Subject: RE: Origins:Jickson Johnson/Johnson Jinkson/3 Butchers From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 22 Sep 07 - 06:12 PM Quite an old broadside song, appearing first as 'The Three Worthy Butchers of the North' in the latter part of the 17th century; the earliest dated copy being Brooksby's (West Smithfield, London, c.1672-9). It was re-issued under various titles well into the 19th, latterly in a more condensed form; the hero is always Johnson, but the names of his two companions change. For various broadside copies under various names, see Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads: The new ballad of the three merry butchers, and ten highway-men (etc) Still turning up in oral currency in England, Ireland and the USA well into the 1970s, and quite probably still lurking about out there. |
Subject: RE: Origins:Jickson Johnson/Johnson Jinkson/3 Butchers From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 22 Sep 07 - 06:23 PM Bother, I missed one out. Three jolly butchers and ten highwaymen See also the Pepys Collection: Pepys 2.176: A New Ballad of Three Merry Butchers AND Ten High-Way Men, how three Butchers went to pay Five Hundred Pounds away, and hearing a Woman crying in a Wood, went to relieve her, and was there set upon by these Ten High-Way Men, and how only stout Johnson fought with them all, who kill'd Eight of the Ten, and last was kill'd by the Woman whom he went to save out of the Wood |
Subject: RE: Origins:Jickson Johnson/Johnson Jinkson/3 Butchers From: SouthernCelt Date: 22 Sep 07 - 08:30 PM Thanks everyone. Didn't realize this one was an old song; thought it was something I & S came up with to add a little variety to the album. SC |
Subject: RE: Origins:Jickson Johnson/Johnson Jinkson/3 Butchers From: Richard Mellish Date: 09 Aug 09 - 03:17 AM The story is pretty consistent in all versions, but has always puzzled me. The fact that the woman eventually turns out to be on the robbers' side implies that she was some sort of decoy -- but why did they need a decoy? Why did their plan require her to be naked? And why was she tied down by her hair rather than by any more conventional method? What purpose does her "shriekful cry" (in Henry Burstow's wonderful version, slightly different from the Roberts and Barrand version posted above) serve? The robbers could have seen the butchers riding down the road, and ambushed them, without her being involved at all. Perhaps her role was to find out whether the butchers were carrying enough money to be worth robbing, but that is not mentioned; and what if they had had very little? Then all the palaver of her being stripped and tied down would have been a waste of effort. If this is a fictional story, the original author might have been expected either to omit these implausible elements or to explain them, and the explanations might have been expected to survive in some versions. The absence of such explanations makes me suspect that the story was based on a real incident. Richard |
Subject: Ly Add: The Battle of King's Mountain From: cnd Date: 12 Dec 15 - 09:34 PM From the liner notes: "Despite its title, this ballad is not concerned with the celebrated American defeat, October 7, 1780, of the British by American frontiersmen. Rather, this is a version of the 17th century broadside, The Three Butchers, which is almost mock heroic in its lament for the death of Johnson, the brave butcher. The woman was originally a decoy for the robbers and summoned them by blowing a whistle. Ramsey's text is somewhat confusing in that the seventh of six robbers is put to flight and the identity of the person to be hanged is uncertain. It is certainly not accidental that a western North Carolina singer would associate a ballad with the Battle of King's Mountain, but the association may have been aided by the King's Mountain of a Brennan on the Moor variant or by the King's highway of anther ballad." Source: http://allensarchiveofearlyoldcountrymusic.blogspot.com/2010/02/obray-ramsey-sings-folksongs-from-three.html Note that I very specifically listen and made sure that he said "Dickson," not "Jickson" or "Jinkson," as in the other versions. THE BATTLE OF KING'S MOUNTAIN (Trad; "Laws #L4") Johnson said to Dickson, one cold December day "Let's go out on King's Mountain and while the time away" Way out on King's Mountain, King's Mountain so high Johnson said to Dickson "I heard a woman cry" Then turning to his right and looking all around He saw a naked woman chained to the ground "Good woman, good woman, what is this awful crime?" "The robber boys have robbed me and left me to die" Johnson being good-hearted, and Dickson being kind They rapped a coat around her and took her up behind They had not gone so very far, two miles or three The woman started screamin' "Lord have mercy on me" Out stepped six robbers with daggers in their hands They caught the horse's bridle, saying "Man your life must end" Johnson fought to six o'clock, 'til the sun went down that night He killed six of the robbers, then the seventh one took flight Johnson being tired laid down to take a rest The woman stole his dagger and stabbed him in the breast Good woman, good woman, a-look what you have done You've killed the bravest soldier Ol' England's ever sprung I'm going back to England, I'm sentenced to be hung I've fought in many-a battle, but this is my last one |
Subject: RE: Origins:Jickson Johnson/Johnson Jinkson/3 Butchers From: cnd Date: 12 Dec 15 - 09:38 PM You can listen to it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZIgSkkOACg |
Subject: RE: Origins:Jickson Johnson/Johnson Jinkson/3 Butchers From: cnd Date: 12 Dec 15 - 09:51 PM Here is the description from George Malcolm Laws' American Balladry from British Broadsides: A Guide for Students and Collectors of Traditional Song: Riding along with large sums of money to pay off their creditors, the butchers hear cries for help and come upon a naked woman, bound with chords, who says she has been robbed. Johnson frees her, and the four ride on together. The woman whistles a signal and ten thieves spring from hiding. Two of the butchers yield and are bound. Johnson fights gallantly and kills eight of the robbers, but the woman gives him his death blow from behind. The remaining thieves then murder the other two butchers and escape from England. Source: http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031007852;view=1up;seq=186 |
Subject: RE: Origins:Jickson Johnson/Johnson Jinkson/3 Butchers From: GUEST,Joe Tomrud Date: 13 Dec 15 - 02:30 PM There is a version of this song on Matthews Southern Comfort album "Second Spring", in a contemporary setting, from 1970. Ian (now Iain) Matthews was a big fan of Ian & Sylvia, and covered Sylvia Fricker's "Southern Comfort" on the same album. |
Share Thread: |
Subject: | Help |
From: | |
Preview Automatic Linebreaks Make a link ("blue clicky") |