a new national anthem for ireland

Subject: a new national anthem for ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 01:01 PM

Will a new national anthem,Which has the approval of both communities,help to create a united Ireland.
It is [imo] as unreasonable to ask protestants from the north to sing the soldiers song,as to ask republicans to sing, God Save the Queen,or the Orange and the lily O.
A competely new anthem and possibly new flag,with the approval of both sides,might make a united Ireland happen more quickly.
I personally have no problem with the present Irish national anthem.
How about A Song For Ireland,as a new Irish National anthem,anyone got any better suggestions.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 01:33 PM

Definitely "A Sonmg for Ireland", written as it was by a man from Staffordshire, where I happen to live currently. And compulsory eating of oatcakes could be introduced into Ireland, north and south, as well.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 01:36 PM

eating of oatcakes thats rather boring,how about compulsory eating of Magic Mushrooms.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 01:44 PM

I hope that's "would" not "will".

I'd be very sorry to see the Soldiers Song replaced - and I'd argue that there's nothing at all sectarian in it.

As for the flag - the very design of the present one is intended to represent both the Orange and the Green.

I'd be very surprised if changes like that would in themselves alter many minds.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 01:51 PM

walking all the day, went in the pub, listened to an ould fiddler(he was shite!) dreamed of a land where no one had to fight...

its okay, but not what you want hear before a football match

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Declan
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 02:14 PM

Previous Thread on this subect

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 02:14 PM

The wholepoint is that there is nothing compulsory ,that an agreement on a song is Decided by both parties that is acceptable to both sides.
Mcgrath, Is not A United Ireland is more important than an anthem.
I think John Cages 4 MINUTES 33 would be admirable,both teams would have to mime it,itwould be folk[under the 1954 definition] because it changes every tinme it is performed.DickMiles

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Declan
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 02:17 PM

Ireland's Call by Phil Coulter is Irelands new Rugby anthem,

Hasn't done much good putting fire in the bellies of our lads in France so far. Now 60,000 people singing La Marseillese definitely does the trick for the French team.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: MikeRebec
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 02:34 PM

Give Ireland Back to the Irish. Can't remember who wrote it. Was it paul McCartney.
Or Poor Old Ireland by Roy Harper.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Shaneo
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 02:50 PM

There is nothing wrong with the one we have, this debate started way back when some foreign bands had difficulty playing The Soldiers Song.
The loyalists have their own culture[fucked if I know what it is except sectarianism] and the nationalists have theirs.
Peadar Kearney in 1937 added an extra verse to The National Anthem to include the north but was not embraced.
If this debate was brought up in England or America where their anthem was to be changed to accommodate some ethnic minority there would be uproar.
Only two weeks ago some Polish bouncer stopped a singer from playing our national anthem in a Dublin pub stating-We Have A Mixed Crowd Here Tonight-what next.

The extra verse of the Irish National Anthem can be seen here

on my site

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Celtaddict
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 03:11 PM

Wow! What a site! Thanks for passing the word.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 03:11 PM

Extra verse is a bit obscure........ who are all those people?

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Declan
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 03:27 PM

Wld

Not 100% sure of this but Con Could be Conor Mac Nessa, an ancient king of Ulster.

Owen is probably Owen Rua O Neill a 16th century gaelic Chieftain from Ulster (Around County Tyrone).

Cave Hill is the hill over Belfast.

Tone was Theobold Wolfe Tone the founder of the United Irishmen in the late 18th Century

Slieve Gullion is a mountain in South Armagh.

Inishowen is a peninsula in north Donegal

Well you did ask.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 03:39 PM

thankyou Declan as always you are soul of courtesy to an ignorant Englishman.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: GUEST,Murray on Saltspring
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 04:15 PM

I've never liked that anthem - it's too martial and chauvinistic. Ireland surely needs a song that celebrates the beauty of the place, not old struggles.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 04:25 PM

The Sea Around Us.

Giok

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 05:18 PM

Wolfe Tone was also a Protestant,And believed in trying to unify catholics and protestants[The United Irishmen]
[IMO]an Anthem that is acceptable to both sides will be a major stepping stone to a United Ireland,It is impossible to force an anthem on anyone side,be it God Save The Queen,or The Soldiers Song.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 05:48 PM

It may be possible, short term, to define yourself in terms of the brave lads fighting the Saxon tyrant. But in the long run, you probably need some other mirror to view yourself in.I appreciate McGrath's nostalgia for the song, but nothing lasts forever. In the fullness of time, this may have to go. When people decide so.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 06:01 PM

Mr Miles as a non native please keep your nose out of our affairs!

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 06:27 PM

It is the affair of everyone, who wants to see the end of bombing and violence,to try and achieve a unified Ireland through peaceful means.,if a new national anthem goes anyway towards this,then it is good.
It is also my affair,because I live in Ireland and am affected by any political decisions,that politicians on this island of Ireland make.
I have a vote in general elections,and use it in the direction that I think will best bring a unified Ireland.
GUESTguest, to quote Marx ,no man is an island unto himself.

.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 07:06 PM

It will happen without any outside help, I'm sure.
Lord knows they've had enough help from Britain to last another six or seven hundred years.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 07:21 PM

We'll sing a song
An Irish song
Of James Joyce, Wilde and Yeats
since Riverdance - the great advance
All Irishmen are mates
Tonight, we've vowed that there will be no chat
Of 1916 and all that
Its U2, Me too, Roddy Doyle
From the Liffey to the Foyle
Fine Gael, Fianna Fail
Will sing an Irish song!


you see - if you altered the words a bit......

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 08:21 PM

Is not A United Ireland is more important than an anthem?

The thing is, I don't think that changing the anthem would do anything to bring a united Ireland nearer. In fact I can quite imagine ways in which it could be even more divisive.

Symbols like that are complicated things. The fact that the RUC had shamrocks on their badges never helped convince Nationalists and Republicans that they was on their side. If anything it was seen as adding insult to injury.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 07 - 02:35 AM

"It is also my affair, because I live in Ireland"
How feckin' arrogant can you get?
The bombing and the violence took place because we Brits have occupied Ireland for centuries and wish to continue to do so (albiet only 6 counties).
And now we want to have a say in changing their national anthem.
Isn't it time we copped on to ourselves? When will we ever learn? - as the song says.
Jim Carroll
PS I live in Ireland too.
PPS Certainly NOT Phil Colclough's 'Song For Ireland' - nobody deserves that!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Declan
Date: 25 Sep 07 - 02:51 AM

Captain,

I wish you look in trying to end the bombing and violence.

Have you listened to the news in the last 10 years?

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Sep 07 - 03:32 AM

"If this debate was brought up in England or America where their anthem was to be changed to accommodate some ethnic minority there would be uproar."

A verse of God Save The Queen was dropped because it referred to rebellious Scots.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: PMB
Date: 25 Sep 07 - 03:56 AM

Sash Of Our Fathers runs nicely into The Faith My Father Wore.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Sep 07 - 07:16 AM

Jim ,Iknow why the bombing took place,.
If you read my original post,I said it had to be decided by both parties,that doesnt necessarily include me,if I was allowed a vote on the matter ,I would use it,as I do in general elections,If I am excluded, I accept that too.
However I am entitled to an opinion,as are all the people who have been affected by the violence, and all the people who have had relatives killed, whatever their nationality.
If you read my ORIGINAL post carefully,I state that I do not have a problem with the Irish National Anthem.
It is some protestants living in the north,that have a problem,much as republicans have a problem with God Save the Queen,compromises have to be made sometimes for there to be progress,now these decisions are not up to me[although if Iam allowed to vote on it I would]But up to the Irish people both sides of the border,Catholic and Protestant.
But I am allowed to raise the subject for discussion on this forum,and should be allowed to do so without being told to keep my nose out of Irish affairs,and without being told I am feckin arrogant.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Sep 07 - 08:05 AM

Jim Carroll,when I moved to Ireland in 1990,I accepted that I did not have a vote on the Constitution,I still accept that,.
But it is my opinion that progress will not be made without both sides making compromises.It is everybodys affair, whatever their nationality to be concerned about The unification of Ireland,That doesnt mean they have a right to vote on the matter.But we do have a right to discuss it here
Declan,there not has been an end to all violence.
I do listen to the news, all the Patriots that died in the easter rising would be ashamed of the corruption that exists/existed in the last 25 years amongst Irish Politicians.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Sep 07 - 09:14 AM

Marx said a lot of stuff, Capn, but not "no man is an island".Well, Marx might have quoted it, I don't know, but it was John Donne who said it, four hundred years ago.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Sep 07 - 09:26 AM

oh yes, and Sinn Fein got one of my votes.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Mr Happy
Date: 25 Sep 07 - 09:26 AM

How about this:

O land of my fathers O land of my love
Dear mother of minstrels who kindle and move
And hero on hero who at honours proud call
For freedom their lifeblood let fall
Eire, Eire oh but my heart is with you
As long as the sea,
Your bulwark shall be
To Ireland my heart shall be true.

O land of the mountains, the bard's paradise,
Whose precipice, valleys lone as the skies,
Green murmuring forest, far echoing flood
Fire the fancy and quicken the blood
Eire, Eire oh but my heart is with you
As long as the sea,
Your bulwark shall be
To Ireland my tongue shall be true.

For though' the fierce foeman has ravaged your realm,
The old speech of Ireland he cannot overwhelm,
Our passionate poets to silence command
Or banish the harp from your strand.
Eire, Eire oh but my heart is with you
As long as the sea,
Your bulwark shall be
To Ireland my tongue shall be true.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Mr Happy
Date: 25 Sep 07 - 09:34 AM

Here's John Redwood singing the tune!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwBvjoLyZc

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 06:09 AM

Can you please desist from trying to tell us what to do about our national anthem. We do not presume to tell you what do with God Save the Queen.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 06:31 AM

God Save The Queen,is the national anthem of Irish people living in the six counties,some of them undoubtedly would want to change it[who can blame them].
In the event of a unified Ireland are there going to be two national anthems.
neither side can expect to impose either anthem on the other side.
Irish people in the republic would be outraged if God Save The Queen was imposed on them.
logically it is equally outrageous for the Republic to impose the Soldiers Song on Irish Ulster Protestants.
At the present moment the Soldiers Song is the National anthem of the republic,not the whole island of Ireland.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: PMB
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 07:23 AM

God Save The Queen doesn't even mention the UK, or Britain, or England for that matter. Practically nobody knows any of it except the first verse, and that's pretty innocuous. I'm sure Irishmen could find it in their hearts to revere a dignified old lady- they don't even have to give her a job, she's already paid well enough by us.

The 'lost' verse does mention Scotland, in a bad sense, but I'm sure we could invent a few extra verses so everyone gets insulted equally.

Who wrote that dreadful Rugby anthem?

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 07:52 AM

That's not dreadful it's brilliant! The sight of Peter Stringer between two towering forwards singing "shoulder to shoulder" never fails to amuse. (and lest I offend the captain, he is still one of the best scrum halves in the game!)

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 10:24 AM

'I'm sure Irishmen could find it in their hearts to revere a dignified old lady.......'

Joan Collins...perhaps.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 12:38 PM

nice one WLD.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 07:44 PM

Since a united Ireland wouldn't have the Queen, God Save the Queen would be pretty irrelevant. The Sash has a better tune anyway, and I can quite imagine some arrangement that would include it alongside the Soldier's Song. Or maybe Lilliburlero, though that might be confusing for listeners to the BBC World Service.

After all, that's more or less what what they did in the new South Africa, where the anthem includes both Sikelel' i Afrika and the Afrikaans Die Stem.

I think something that represented both traditions alongside each other would make more sense than some cobbled up novelty that didn't have any roots.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Declan
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 08:02 PM

What about that great song "You raise me up" which has roots in "Danny Boy", "When A Child is Born" and "The Wind Beneath my Wings" among other songs. And it was even a hit for Westlife so half the country knows it already.

This is NOT a serious suggestion!

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 08:09 PM

How about, are you right there Michael, are you right?

this is a very serious suggestion.

Subject: RE: a new national anthem for ireland
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 12:02 AM

I've changed my mind. As a gesture of tolerance/submission the Irish should allow an English visitor to pick an anthem for them.
Really!
What possible harm could it do?