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Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin

GUEST,Chris 27 Sep 07 - 03:03 AM
Malcolm Douglas 27 Sep 07 - 04:10 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 27 Sep 07 - 05:04 AM
Malcolm Douglas 27 Sep 07 - 05:26 AM
IanC 27 Sep 07 - 06:38 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 27 Sep 07 - 02:38 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 27 Sep 07 - 02:43 PM
Malcolm Douglas 27 Sep 07 - 03:01 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 27 Sep 07 - 09:47 PM
GUEST 22 Jul 12 - 11:59 PM
GUEST 27 Sep 14 - 07:23 PM
GUEST 27 Sep 14 - 07:28 PM
GUEST 28 Sep 14 - 07:57 AM
Richard Mellish 28 Sep 14 - 08:42 AM
GUEST,Guest (another one!) 28 Sep 14 - 11:02 AM
GUEST,Rahere 30 Sep 14 - 07:04 PM
Steve Gardham 01 Oct 14 - 05:13 PM
Louie Roy 02 Oct 14 - 09:40 AM
GUEST,Rahere 02 Oct 14 - 10:21 AM
GUEST,Rahere 02 Oct 14 - 12:01 PM
MGM·Lion 03 Oct 14 - 07:47 AM
GUEST,Rahere 03 Oct 14 - 06:19 PM
Genie 24 Oct 14 - 11:48 PM
MGM·Lion 25 Oct 14 - 05:24 AM
Lighter 25 Oct 14 - 08:10 AM
GUEST,Attica, IN 01 Jan 17 - 07:53 PM
GUEST 30 Jul 17 - 05:34 PM
GUEST,My mom sang it to us. She learned it as a ki 09 Jul 18 - 04:44 PM
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Subject: Let the moon shine down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST,Chris
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 03:03 AM

Does anyone know the words to this song?
I have the chorus but no verses.


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Subject: RE: Let the moon shine down
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 04:10 AM

It does seem that there was more to it originally, though you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who remembers anything other than the chorus; even if you search for the right words (The moon shines bright, not down).

Apparently the lyric was written by Edward Stanning and Thurland Chattaway, set to Kerry Mills' tune 'Red Wing' (for which Chattaway had written the original lyric); the song was published in 1915 and popularised by the actress Lillie Soutter. You'll find reproductions of the chorus part of the score, and the front cover of the music sheet (or an advert for it) at http://chaplin.bfi.org.uk/:

music (page 3)

cover/ad

The chorus is quoted in numerous old threads here, of course; with various minor variations. I doubt if we need any more of those, but if anybody does know the rest of the song that would be interesting. Note, though, that the DT file Charlie Chaplin is not the song Chris is looking for, but a relatively modern collation of children's playground verses mentioning Chaplin, grafted onto the familiar chorus.


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Subject: RE: Let the moon shine down
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 05:04 AM

There does not appear to be a "rest of the song,"

Just the catchy popular chorous.

For a good discussion of RED WING and MOON SHINE DOWN ON CHARLIE CHAPLAN you will find a good accademic discussion (and ABC notation)at:

http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/REA_RED.htm

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Let the moon shine down
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 05:26 AM

'The Fiddlers Companion' entry on 'Red Wing' does touch briefly on 'Chaplin', but doesn't provide detail. There clearly was more text to the derivative song (see the sheet music extract linked to above), but what it may have been I don't know. It doesn't seem to have survived in oral usage, but there will still be copies of the 1915 songsheet out there.


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Subject: RE: Let the moon shine down
From: IanC
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 06:38 AM

I think I can shed some light on why only the chorus survives orally.

Like "Chase Me Charlie", this is a "song" taught to me by my mum.

Things often survive because they're useful and, like "Chase Me Charlie" (for which I have a verse and chorus), it was sung while dancing to the tune. Redwing was incredibly popular in East Anglia for dances and that's where she sang the Charlie Chaplin chorus.

By the way, she was taught "country dancing" by a teacher from the village who was scarcely older than her. The same teacher, somewhat older, also taught me the same dances. However, her "Ballroom" dances (which is mainly what was danced in village dances in the 40s) were taught to her by a peripatetic "dancing master" who travelled round the villages teaching youngsters to dance.

:-)
Ian


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Subject: RE: Let the moon shine down
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 02:38 PM

A little sleep after a late night - and all comes into place.

Sheet Music When the Moon Shines on Charlie Chaplin


WORDS by Stanning and Chaffaway - Melody Kerry Mills "Red Wing"

COVER PAGE
http://chaplin.bfi.org.uk/resources/bfi/biog/biog_large.php?fid=biog8&enlargement=moon_shines_bright.jpg

PAGE TWO
http://chaplin.bfi.org.uk/resources/bfi/biog/biog_large.php?fid=biog8&enlargement=music_moonshines2.jpg

PAGE THREE
http://chaplin.bfi.org.uk/resources/bfi/biog/biog_large.php?fid=biog8&enlargement=music_moonshines3.jpg

PAGE FOUR - CHORUS
http://chaplin.bfi.org.uk/resources/bfi/biog/biog_large.php?fid=biog8&enlargement=music_moonshines4.jpg

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Verse One

You've sung of the boys in blue
You've sung of their girls so true
And marched to the strains of well known refrains.
Of "Who's Your Lady Friend" and the "Tip-per-ar-y" too.
Our Tommy's so brave and strong, have sung every kind of song
But what is the lay, they are singing today, as they go marching along?

Verse Two

Some day there will come the time
To "Wind up the Watch on the Rhine,"
Sake of "Auld Land Syne"
But ere that happy day, The Germans have got to pay
When we march in to capture Berlin
We will sing them this little lay.

And of course the well known - universal chorus.


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Subject: RE: Let the moon shine down
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 02:43 PM

Malcolm - it was your tip "there must be more" that inspired a search of the header structure.

It appears that more than Mudcat may have some missing chunks....now give me a scepter to the clone's throne - and things might ......

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Let the moon shine down
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 03:01 PM

Good work, Gargoyle, and something I ought to have thought of trying. It often does work when there are 'orphan' webpages lurking about.

Judging by the verses, the 1915 song was probably written to capitalise on an existing parody doing the rounds among the troops. Whether there was ever any more to that than the words we still know might be hard to establish, but it may be that the answer is out there in memoires of the period and the like.


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Subject: RE: Let the moon shine down
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 09:47 PM

In my opinion - it is slam/dis/putdown - about Charlie being a Brit and escaping the European war-time-draft .....in "fiddler notes" Charlie even mentions his aprehension.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Let the moon shine down
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 11:59 PM

Now the moon shines down, on Charlie Chaplin, his shoes are cracking, they need a blacking. And his old grey pants, they need a patching, where hes been scratching, mosquito bites.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 07:23 PM

These are the original words to the song
Also the correct chorus
The moon shines tonight on Charlie Chaplin


When the moon shines tonight on Charlie Chaplin
His boots are cracking for want of blacking
And his little baggy trousers they want mending
Before we send him to the Dardanelles
chorus   x2
Some day there will come the time
To "Wind up the Watch on the Rhine,"
Sake of "Auld Land Syne"
But ere that happy day, The Germans have got to pay
When we march in to capture Berlin
We will sing them this little lay.
chorus   x2


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 07:28 PM

Sorry i missed off the second verse
You've sung of the boys in blue
You've sung of their girls so true
And marched to the strains of well known refrains.
Of "Who's Your Lady Friend" and the "Tip-per-ar-y" too.
Our Tommy's so brave and strong, have sung every kind of song
But what is the lay, they are singing today, as they go marching along?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 14 - 07:57 AM

The Oldham Tinkers version is on Traditional Music

Charlie Chaplin, meek and mild, swiped a sausage from a child
When the child began to cry, Charlie socked him in the eye

Charlie Chaplin had no sense, he bought a fiddle for eighteen pence
And the only tune that he could play was Ta-ra-ra-boom-de-ay

Charlie Chaplin went to France to teach the ladies how to dance
First your heel and then your toe; lift up your skirts and 'round you go

Charlie, Charlie, chook, chook, chook, went to bed with three white ducks
One died, Charlie cried, Charlie, Charlie, chook, chook, chook

One, two, three, O'leary, I saw my Auntie Sary
Standing in the door, O'leary, kissing Charlie Chaplin


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 28 Sep 14 - 08:42 AM

Un-named GUEST said
> These are the original words to the song
Also the correct chorus <

Passing over what "correct" means in this context, the fact that the quoted verses reproduce what was already posted several years ago, and the fact that the line breaks are set out differently between the four half verses; what is of more concern is that the first half of each verse does not scan so as to fit the tune.

The second halves of both verses (set out as three lines in verse 1 and two lines on verse 2) have the same number of stresses and the same rhyming pattern and do fit the tune. Verse 1 line 4 (as posted) has three too many stresses. Verse 2 line 3 (as posted) has five too few: to fit the pattern of the second halves there should be two stresses ending with something that rhymes with "Syne" and another three ending with something that rhymes with "Rhine" or "time".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST,Guest (another one!)
Date: 28 Sep 14 - 11:02 AM

I also take exception to anyone talking about the 'correct' version of anything! Folk music is a moveable feast including the words- once they've left the last person you heard singing it, it's YOURS or it b... well should be- make it your own, change the words if you want, some folk won't like it, but don't talk about 'the 'correct words' PLEASE!

The Oldham Tinkers had excellent nonsense words to this old American tune, are they 'incorrect'- an sure they never worried about it!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 30 Sep 14 - 07:04 PM

Well, I've discovered where the Dardanelles bit came from: it was current in the trenches in WWI, the following is in Tommy's Tunes (Vol 2 1917), which was the start of Oh! What A Lovely War!

Tune: Hiawatha [I presume something from Samual Taylor Coleridge's magnum opus - R]
When the moon shines bright on Charlie Chaplin,
He's going balmy
To join the Army ;
And his old baggy trousers want a-mending
Before they send him
To the Dardanelles.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Oct 14 - 05:13 PM

No need to get so heated over GUEST's posting, other guest!

I'm sure he/she meant 'original' as used in the line above. Yes you are quite right, they are ALL correct!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: Louie Roy
Date: 02 Oct 14 - 09:40 AM

The way we sang this when I was a kid

The moon shines tonight on Misses Porter
And then on her daughter
And they both wash their feet in dirty water
and I guess they aughter
to get them clean


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 02 Oct 14 - 10:21 AM

Further to the last, I was working from an OCR scan, tracking back to a PDF image of the original adds an attribution to Gallipoli, ie not the French trenches, but the assault troops themselves in the Turkish campaign. The next step must be to examine this in specific detail for ANZAC jargon.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 02 Oct 14 - 12:01 PM

As this is going somewhere, I'd better provide the sources to bring it up to Malcolm's standards. The crap OCR is here, and the good PDF scan here.

The intro's also interesting, as it discusses the origins of "Tipperary", which are referred to here: the tune was not as ubiquitous as some might claim, but picked almost by chance by George Curnock, the Daily Mail correspondant at Boulogne when the BEF arrived in 1914. It was new to him, and so he mentioned it. This was then pounced on by the publishers, who promoted it for all they were worth: in Nettleingham's words, "a hitherto unknown and unwanted song of such mediocre worth that it was like any other of the hunddred songs that appear and are sung by third-rate artistes, and then disappear; the couplet of which, by the way, was a crib on Has Anybody Here Seen Kelly?".

I think that intro might be worth studying in greater depth, as the collection shows the vernacular repertoire of the country folk of the day, which is mostly hymnody, some music hall, but also folk tunes and nursery rhymes far more consistent with my recent postings on the National Song Book.
In order, the following are referenced:
UK                                 US
Sweet Genevieve                   Little Grey Home in the West
Auld Lang Syne                     My Old Kentucky Home
Old King Cole                      Back Home in Tennessee
Here's to the Maiden of Sweet Seventeen
The Mermaid                        John Brown's Baby
D'Ye Ken John Peel                John Brown's Body
Moonlight Bay                      Dixie
The Rosary                         Marching through Georgia
The Mountains of Morne             Yankee Doodle
Here we go gathering nuts in May
The Grand Old Duke of York
The Green Grass Grew All Around
Down in the Valley
Old MacDonald Had a Farm( as old Macdougal Had a Farm in Ohio-i-o)
One Man Went to Mow
Early in the Morning, Down at the Station
Ninety-Nine Bottles on the Wall
British Grenadiers

It might be interesting to extend this to the other collections of the day, as it precedes the rise of Vaughan Williams (whose real breakthrough built on his appointment as Director of Music of the First Army in 1918), and to some extent the promulgation of the work of Cecil Sharp and his circle, as one of the motivations for his work in the Appalachians during WWI was lack of income from what he had published. I would appeal to wiser and more knowledgeable heads than mine to continue these thoughts addressing the extent by which the nationalism he tapped into to create the first revival was derived from WWI jingoism, remembering that the sense of national pride predates the War itself and was one of the dynamics either justifying or motivating the War. I rather suspect the memes already exist, of course!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Oct 14 - 07:47 AM

Has it been noted that the Mrs Porter lines are quoted by T S Eliot somewhere in The Waste Land? --
(to make what point I am not sure, but then IMO that is not the greatest poem of C20 as often claimed, but a bit of a farrago of discrete quotations and ideas. YMMV -- and probably will.   I think this citation should be noted here anyhow.)

In Ernest Raymond's semi-autobiographical WWi novel, Tell England [1922, & still occasionally reprinted in pb, most recently in 2005], his self-representing hero, serving as an infantry officer -- in the Dardanelles campaign, note, to which the Charlie Chaplin version makes reference -- remembers his men "incessantly singing a song which went, 'O the moon shines bright on Mrs Porter, And on her daughter, A regular snorter. She has washed her neck in soda water. She didn't oughta. The dirty cat'."

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 03 Oct 14 - 06:19 PM

Not too many miles removed from a precedent for the Two Ronnies, also on that site, 1917's The Rakish Rhymer. I think some of those could also be reused these days...


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Subject: The Moon Shines Bright on Charlie Chaplin
From: Genie
Date: 24 Oct 14 - 11:48 PM

My mom used to sing this to me (Tune: Red Wing)

Oh, the moon shines bright on Charlie Chaplin,
His boots are crackin', they need a blackin'
His old grey pants, they need a patchin'
'Cause he's been scratchin' a chigger bite.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Oct 14 - 05:24 AM

Slowburn re-recollection of 'Tell England' quote 3 posts back:

I think it might have been "dirty water" that the dirty cat had washed her neck in.

The "regular scorcher" description doesn't seem to appear anywhere else above.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Oct 14 - 08:10 AM

Whiter than the whitewash on the wall!
Whiter than the whitewash on the wall!
Wash me in the water that you washed your dirty daughter in,
And I shall be whiter than the whitewash on the wall!

Whiter than the milky cocoanuts!
Whiter than the milky cocoanuts!
Wash me in the water that you washed your dirty daughter in
And I shall be whiter than the milky cocoanuts!

(From Captain Robert Graves and others.)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST,Attica, IN
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 07:53 PM

My grandmother used to play this tune and sing
"oh the moon shines so bright on Charlie Chaplin his shoes are a crackin they need a blacken and his ole grey pants they need a patchin where he's been scratchin mosquito bites."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 17 - 05:34 PM

"Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST,Attica, IN
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 07:53 PM

My grandmother used to play this tune and sing
"oh the moon shines so bright on Charlie Chaplin his shoes are a crackin they need a blacken and his ole grey pants they need a patchin where he's been scratchin mosquito bites." "

This is the version my Grandmother and her sister sang when I was a child. Early 60's. My Grandmother was born in 1922 and was the youngest child in her family.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req; The Moon Shines Down on Charlie Chaplin
From: GUEST,My mom sang it to us. She learned it as a ki
Date: 09 Jul 18 - 04:44 PM

She was born in 1925 near Brady, Tx.

When the moon shines down on Charlie Chaplin,
His shoes are cracklin, they need a blackin.
And the seat of his pants, they need a patchin,
Where he's been scratchin mosquito bites.


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