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BS: Snopes
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Subject: BS: Snopes From: kendall Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:43 AM I've been having a rather heated discussion with a friend about some of the crap he sends me via e mail, and I'd like some opinions please. For instance, there is a pile of rubbish circulating the internet about Obama. One of the many charges is that he is a Muslim, claims to be a Christian, and the other is a qusi quote from the Quran that orders men to beat their wives. Chapter 4:34 I think it is, is the one they quote. It says no such thing, and I pointed it out to him. He comes back with "Who the hell is this Snopes anyway"? Ok, fair question, so, who the hell IS Snopes and how reliable are they? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Ernest Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:47 AM Ever read Wiliam Faulkners Snopes-trilogy? Guessing from that not too reliable... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Wolfgang Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:53 AM Look for Sura 4:34 and you'll find the beating the wife advice. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: GUEST,Noreen Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:59 AM Copied from Snopes FAQ: Q: How do I know the information you've presented is accurate? A: We don't expect anyone to accept us as the ultimate authority on any topic, which is why our site's name indicates that it contains reference pages. Unlike the plethora of anonymous individuals who create and send the unsigned, unsourced e-mail messages that are forwarded all over the Internet, we show our work. The research materials we've used in the preparation of any particular page are listed in the bibliography displayed at the bottom of that page so that readers who wish to verify the validity of our information may check those sources for themselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Wolfgang Date: 27 Sep 07 - 08:01 AM So, superficially you have been right about no wife beating mentioned in Sura 4:24, but apart from a really minor error your friend was right here. On Obama, however, he is dead wrong. I have found Snopes mostly very reliable in cases I could check. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: GUEST,Noreen Date: 27 Sep 07 - 08:06 AM www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: jacqui.c Date: 27 Sep 07 - 08:14 AM Depends on the translation. There are a lot of articles on the net that would tend to challenge that version. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Jeri Date: 27 Sep 07 - 08:22 AM There's also Truth or Fiction.com Here's their page on the Barack Obama garbage. Personally, I find the spreading of these lies it to be a sign of desperation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Big Mick Date: 27 Sep 07 - 08:30 AM I find it to be reprehensible to spread something that is verifiably untrue. The Internet can spread data around the country and world at an amazing speed. It takes no more than a minute to check out these things on Snopes, Truth or Fiction dot com. The both list sources and their reputation and success depends on them being accurate. This friend who questions the veracity in the face of proof to the contrary is in denial. Folks get so invested in the story they are passing that they get ridiculous. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Wolfgang Date: 27 Sep 07 - 08:39 AM Six translations of Sura 4:34 Depends on translation? Sure, it has also be translated as "scourge". Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Jeri Date: 27 Sep 07 - 08:48 AM Kendall, your friend probably can't trace his sources back past, 'I got it in an e-mail from a guy' or 'so-and-so said'. From the interview (the entire thing is pretty honest and totally clear) quoted on the Truth of Fiction site to which I linked: 'In terms of actual beliefs, Obama told Falsini that he has a deep faith "...rooted in the Christian tradition." He added, "I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people, that there are values that transcend race or culture, that move us forward, and that there's an obligation for all of us individually as well as collectively to take responsibility to make those values lived."'Ask your e-mail pal if he thinks that's what an evil person would say. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: clueless don Date: 27 Sep 07 - 08:48 AM I am glad to have snopes available. Frequently, when I receive forwarded e-mail messages that don't "smell right", I check snopes and find the item in question. As noted above, snopes does not claim to be the final authority on anything. But they do cite their references. I will say that I was *very* disappointed when snopes itself perpetrated a hoax on its own site. They did an item claiming that the animal that portrayed the horse "Mr. Ed" (in the old American TV show of the same name) was actually a zebra. They cited all sorts of arguments as to how the stripes on the animal disappeared in the broadcasting process. You had to click the right link before you came to the point where they confessed that they were pulling your leg. They made the argument that they were warning you that you shouldn't trust anyone blindly, not even them. It's a valid warning, to be sure, but the effect it had on me was to make me think, whenever I check snopes, "Wait a minute...is this another one of their hoaxes?" Don |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Rapparee Date: 27 Sep 07 - 09:24 AM Ya know, you can always leave the computer for a minute and actually GO to the public library or somewhere and actually do the research yourself. There are six basic things wrong with the World Wide Web (and lots of things that are right), and you treat stuff you see there just as you would anything else you haven't personally checked out. To be informed takes work; most people are lazy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Wesley S Date: 27 Sep 07 - 09:29 AM Most people - when you point out the error of the bogus e-mail make no effort to pass it on and correct their misinformation. So with some folks I've taken to hitting my "reply to all" button when I send back a link to snopes or truth or fiction.com. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Amos Date: 27 Sep 07 - 09:37 AM Well, Snopes isn't funded, run or controlled by the government. It is run by Barbara Mikkelson and her husband. And if you believe that Snopes and Answers.com are the same thing, I'd wonder if you'd be interested in a bridge I am selling in Arizona. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Sep 07 - 09:41 AM Don, although I see your point of course, I have always been a proponent of questioning everything including authority. When I taught high school I would do a class period on some utterly ridiculous thing and treat it as if it were fact. Almost all of the kids would nod and take notes as if what I were saying made sense. After revealing the truth and everyone having a laugh, one student could be guaranteed everytime to ask, "But how do we trust you now?" I repled, "You don't! If something even remotely sounds like bullcrap, challenge it and research it yourself no matter who said it." Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: artbrooks Date: 27 Sep 07 - 09:45 AM Is the London Bridge up for sale again, Amos? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Ebbie Date: 27 Sep 07 - 11:47 AM When I perceive it as an important erroneous or misleading item, Wesley, I too do the 'Reply to All'. When I know better, I refuse to pass on something that is clearly and verifiably wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Greg F. Date: 27 Sep 07 - 12:04 PM But then your friend, Kendall, probably desperately WANTS it to be true, so presenting him with the facts of the matter will be to no avail. Your friend has a lot of compatriots -Its almost a BuShite badge of honor. The USA: United States of Amnesia. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: clueless don Date: 27 Sep 07 - 12:44 PM Spaw, The problem is, how were your students supposed to determine that some proposition "even remotely sounds like bullcrap", without experience (but they were students, so some would not have had much opportunity to gain experience) and background knowledge? And where were they to get that background knowledge, if not from their teachers? I acknowledge that you said they were high school students, so they were probably old enough to do research on their own. But suppose they looked something up in, say, the Encyclopedia Britannica - how do they know that whoever wrote the article wasn't misinformed, or even lying? You've got to be able to trust someone, or you end up in an "everything you know is wrong" mentality. This is reminding me a lot of the H. L. Mencken "bathtub hoax". Don |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: artbrooks Date: 27 Sep 07 - 01:51 PM Maybe you should read the entire article, Dubious. It would appear that what you refer to as debunking a fact was actually her apologizing for making an error in an earlier (and later corrected) debunk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: jeffp Date: 27 Sep 07 - 01:54 PM Bullshit |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: jeffp Date: 27 Sep 07 - 01:54 PM That was directed at Dubious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Don Firth Date: 27 Sep 07 - 03:11 PM GUEST,dubious is obviously our old friend of many threads, many names who has never met a conspiracy theory he/she/it didn't embrace wholeheartedly. Refuses to acknowleged the existence of any honest and authoritative source of information that doesn't square with his/her/its latest hobby-horse, claiming that it's part of the conspiracy. Either a total paranoiac or a full-time, professional troll. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Sep 07 - 03:18 PM Too long to even bother explaining. They all seemed to come out with healthy scepticism.....the desired effect. I had a lot of fellow teachers pissed at me because those kids would often question them.....also the desired effect. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: jeffp Date: 27 Sep 07 - 03:25 PM The questioning or the pissed-off teachers? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Sep 07 - 03:27 PM ***snicker***......Yeah, you're right......both!(:<)) Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: bobad Date: 27 Sep 07 - 03:32 PM Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. Buddha |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Sep 07 - 03:36 PM So who is this fuckin' Buddha guy and why should I listen to his dumb ass? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: jeffp Date: 27 Sep 07 - 03:39 PM I'm not sure it's his ass they want you to listen to. Just guessing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: bobad Date: 27 Sep 07 - 03:39 PM You are him, he is you, we are all together. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Sep 07 - 03:46 PM Really? Man, I gotta' get these pants let out! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Sep 07 - 05:06 PM I find that almost all virus and worm alerts sent by e-mail or posted in forums like Mudcat, are hoaxes - especially if they're messages that have been forwarded multiple times. When I see such a notice, the first thing I do is find a distinctive phrase from the message, put it in quotes, and Google it. More often than not, Google will lead me to Snopes.com, and I'll find the alert is a hoax. The hoax information at Snopes is usually very well-documented. And this site is just darn interesting to read. The computer hoaxes and political smears are just part of Snopes. The best part of Snopes is its folklore - Snopes is the best source of Urban Legend information in the world. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: John Hardly Date: 27 Sep 07 - 05:41 PM I just checked with Snopes. Turns out that everything catspaw says is bullcrap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Sep 07 - 05:58 PM Well, yeah....'Cept for the part when I admit to being full of bullcrap which is of course the truth. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Sep 07 - 05:58 PM Touche', John. I get an obscene pleasure out of seeing anybody getting one over on Spaw.. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Sep 07 - 06:10 PM Snopes says that dubious/froth/physics major and all of the other Blooming types are trolling asswipes with nary a sign of brain activity. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Jeri Date: 27 Sep 07 - 06:36 PM "It's true because I believe it" isn't any less stupid than "It's not true because I don't believe it. I trust Snopes, and I don't trust conspiracy theorists who sound too desperate and try WAY too hard to convince people to join their little clubs. Snopes sound rational and they provide credible support. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: artbrooks Date: 27 Sep 07 - 06:37 PM Wiki says that Colonel Kwiatkowski has an MA in Government from Harvard and a MS in Science Management from the University of Alaska. She has a PhD in World Politics from Catholic University. If she actually said "As a scientist..." anything, she is about as confused as dubious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: John Hardly Date: 27 Sep 07 - 06:47 PM This is crazy. After having just checked catspaw out on Snopes and having them tell me that everything he says is bullcrap... ...I just checked him out on the Onion and they say he's (in their words) "full of truthyness". Who you gonna believe? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: bobad Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:06 PM More fodder for the paranoia mill - hidden agenda? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Jeri Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:10 PM John, Snopes would have provided some evidence. Plus they wouldn't say everything he says is bullcrap. They would have said something more like, "we conclude that much of what Spaw says is bullcrap, but cannot prove the rest of it is bullcrap, and even if it is, it might be factual bullcrap." Just guessing. I was in the Air Force too, and there were whack job officers and whack job PhDs. As long as they could do their jobs, they could believe whatever they wanted. I don't hold much faith in degrees either. I'm fairly sure that I was smarter than some of the doctors I worked for/with, and if you don't find that a little scary, I sure did! The trick is, you can tell even a doctor they're about to fuck up if you're respectful, make it clear you're just helping the alpha out and and provide EVIDENCE. Degrees don't mean shit if the evidence contradicts what the nut with the degree is saying, and proof from a housewife is still proof. This is just me, but if someone blabs on incessantly in a web forum, trying to convince a bunch of folk musicians that his or her bizarre little theory is right, I think that alone proves they're completely batshit, whether they're trying to borrow someone else's identity or not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:24 PM But at least we have to say that Spaw is entetertaining... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: kendall Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:31 PM It is my understanding that that list of charges against Obama was traced back to Faux news. Surprise, surprise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: John Hardly Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:33 PM And a really good argument with him might be "en tête - à - têtertaining"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Jeri Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:47 PM Kendall, it may well have come from Fox news, but I wouldn't believe that without proof either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Jeri Date: 27 Sep 07 - 07:53 PM Regarding the Obama e-mail smear, it appears to have started as an e-mail smear. Dubious, you're much too desparate for attention. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: Don Firth Date: 27 Sep 07 - 08:27 PM GUEST, dubious, you're just getting silly. Why don't you take an aspirin and lie down for awhile? Oh! That's right! Getting people to take aspirin is a foul and dastardly plot of the Secret World Government to make poor, unsuspecting dupes docile and compliant for when the black helicopters come to air-lift them to the slave labor camps. Wibble Wibble!! Don Firth P. S. Troll Alert! Troll Alert! Where's Billy-goat Gruff when you need him? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: artbrooks Date: 27 Sep 07 - 09:55 PM Babble on, physicsmajor...oh, sorry - that was last week.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Snopes From: catspaw49 Date: 27 Sep 07 - 10:00 PM Hey Doobydickhead......Ya' need to confine your posts about all of that 911 crappola you love to pump out to the already in progress thread. Get the point? We have fun but this is still a music forum and the BS needs to stay within bounds of some sort. Whatever sort it is, you're currently out of it. Spaw |
