Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 05:30 PM

"So, in your opinion Jim, why did Ewan MacColl have two sheds? "
Oh dear!
Any 'Python' fan will describe the sketch where a composer wants to talk about his music, while the interviewer will only discuss his nickname - pretty much the same as threads like these.
"Exactly, which is why you, Jim, and Pat, are the best people to write something substantial on Ewan's work and ideas."
Thank you for that Derek.
In 1978, Pat and I began to interview Ewan - it lasted over six months (about a dozen nights) and concntrated almost exclusively on his work and ideas on song; it was an incredibly rewarding experience for us. At one time our aim was to transcribe it and make it available to all but, as the world seems full of people who 'were asked to sit on MacColl's knee, and never went back' it will probably be archived and let the future decide.
I've thought I'd heard it all about MacColl, but 'Ewan the letch' is a new one on me (Bert maybe!). As a regular at The Singer's I heard the 'sit on my knee' joke a dozen or so times, every time they played to capacity audiences, which was virtually every time they were on. I even received the invitation a few times myself - it was a reference to the club being full (an indication of their popularity as artists). It wasn't one of his better jokes, but it was mildly amusing the first half-dozen times, especially (as Mike, I'm sure, will confirm), MacColl always sat on a back-to-front chair (a relaxation technique) and so, didn't have a lap to sit on. I can't believe that anybody could take it seriously (especially in the light of Peggy's feminist politics).
Mike:
"Jim: you posted "on the folk scene, (or any other artistic field, for that matter)"
Fair enough - I rephrase and ask again - what folk artist has had his or her character placed before their contribution to the music to the extent MacColl has?
Maybe we should concentrate on Grainger's S & M fetish rather than his Lincolnshire collection - what do you think?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 03:44 PM

Jim wrote:
MacColl was a complex individual, often dificult to fathom by those who knew him, and pretty obviously impossible by those who didn't , but he was a creative artist who did far more to encourage creativity in others than anybody else on the scene - by miles.

Exactly, which is why you, Jim, and Pat, are the best people to write something substantial on Ewan's work and ideas.

Derek

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 03:41 PM

Now I come to think about it, I think I may have the answer to the two sheds problem.

In shed one - Ewan took his stand; ecce homo; this is the man taking a stand for the preservation of tradition,; there I stand, like Luther... upon my principles.

In shed two - Ewan was the liberated artist; writing plays; writing and performing songs, acting; the big hewer; the great artificer.

Once you have understood the sheds, then you have understood the man.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 03:35 PM

Two sheds? I expect he was thinking of the folktale of the Welshman shipwrecked on the desert island who was found when rescued years later to have carefully built two chapels. Asked why, he said, "Well, you see, that one on the right is the one I go to on Sundays." "Oh? And what's the other for?" "That one? Why, I wouldn't be seen dead in that one!"

Sospan-vach ···

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 03:26 PM

Sorry that was me, who asked the vital two sheds question, my mind must have been elsewhere, calling myself Ewan MacColl.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 03:22 PM

Jim: you posted "on the folk scene, (or any other artistic field, for that matter)"; & I provided precisely what you asked for. (Even if you argue that you specified 'singer', then go back & listen to her incomparable "My Heart Belongs To Daddy".)

So Marilyn Monroe your arseum [ɷɷɷɷɷɷ] right back to you.

♥♫❤···Michael····❤♫♥

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Ewan MacColl
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 03:11 PM

So, in your opinion Jim, why did Ewan MacColl have two sheds?

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 03:09 PM

"Well, we do, Jim. How about Marilyn Monroe "
Oh come on Mike - Marilyn Monroe my arseum; no other folk figure is debated as superficially or vituperatively as MacColl . - is so, name them.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 02:17 PM

Well, we do, Jim. How about Marilyn Monroe ~~ an exceptionally gifted actress, but who has written books about that, or quotes her on acting, rather than on "It's not true I was in bed with nothing on ~ I had the radio on"? We have several books entirely devoted to her suicide, a complex historical matter in which my wife happens to be particularly interested; but I don't know of any analyses of her acting.

As to Alex Campbell, I remember once writing of a gig of his that I could never fathom how he could hold an audience so expertly when he couldn't even hold a melody line ~~ an observation I recall Peter Bellamy saying was most pertinent and he wished he had written it: with Alex it was always the personality far more than the performance that people reacted and responded to.

With Ewan, OTOH, it was BOTH: which it seems to me makes it a bit captious and pernickety and over-defensive of you to object to; rather than accepting it as the tribute it undoubtedly is to the complex personality he undoubtedly was.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 01:57 PM

"Actually, it feels like we are getting a rounded view of the strengths and weaknesses of Ewan's personality;"
Wouldn't it be a refreshing change if we discused his work and ideas rather than his personality.
I can't think of one other singer on the folk scene, (or any other artistic field, for that matter) who has had his/her 'personality' dragged through the mire more than MacColl has - and it's still happening twenty-two years after his death.
For instance, What do people think of his work in relating Laben's work on movement to singing efforts?
or
Did the relaxation and voice exercised work for anybody who became familiar with them.
Was his work using Stanislavski's 'application of the idea of 'if'' or 'emotion memory' valid for the singing of folk songs?
Or how about his approach to ballads - as outlined in articles he wrote on The Bonny Earl of Moray or Edom O' Gordon.
Or his suggestion that, when writing songs, the secret in getting them to work for audiences was that the writer should start "from the specific and move ro the general" so that everybody is given the opportunity to identify with the song..... MacColl did far more work on the singing of folk songs than anybody else in the revival; he was always ready to discuss that work with anybody who showed an interest. Despite this, we still don't appear to have moved beyond facile questions like 'why did he change his name' (never asked of Dylan/Zimmerman, or ' what did he sing with one hand cupped over his ear (never mentioned in relation to Bert Lloyd or The Watersons - the latter sang with both hands over their ears).
I'm quite convinced that, where MacColl is concerned, most of the revival is constantly acting out the Monty Python 'Arthur 'Two Sheds' Jackson sketch (the one where a composer can't get his work taken seriously because of his nickname.
Maybe it's time we started discussing other singers by their personality traits or problems - "did you hear the one about Alex Campbell chucking up on stage......?"
MacColl was a complex individual, often dificult to fathom by those who knew him, and pretty obviously impossible by those who didn't , but he was a creative artist who did far more to encourage creativity in others than anybody else on the scene - by miles.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Mike Yates
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 01:54 PM

Funny, but when I heard the MacColl/slugs story (many, many years ago) the perpetrator was said to be the late John Brune.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 11:22 AM

Acorn4 wrote
"Unfortunately, although CND were great people, when it came to organising things, the words "piss-up" and "brewery" immediately spring to mind."

I could top your experience to a considerable degree with my experiences in performing in fundraisers for CND... but we have already had thread-drift into digital tuners so I won't.

Actually, it feels like we are getting a rounded view of the strengths and weaknesses of Ewan's personality; it is most unlike a Mudcat/McColl thread - no rudeness, no hoary old pro/anti arguments being dragged out of the cupboards. Most unusual! The seventh post said let's try to remember the living, breathing chap. and do you know? That seems to be happening.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Northerner
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 10:58 AM

I went to Ewan's club in the 70s when I was living in London for a year. I did a floor spot there. Ewan asked me to sit on his knee but I refused. I went back to the club a few times but never when either Ewan or Peggy were there. I have to say I didn't really like the atmosphere at the club - I definitely found that both Ewan and Peggy were the object of a bit of hero worship and I didn't like that very much. There were other clubs in London at that time that I found were much more enjoyable. I respected Ewan McColl for his achievements but I can't say I liked him. That's just my experience though.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Acorn4
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 10:26 AM

During the seventies I became involved with the CND goup in Leicester, and they put on a fundraiser at the University with Ewan and Peggy. I agreed to compere and assumed that all necessary arrangements had been made. Unfortunately, although CND were great people, when it came to organising things, the words "piss-up" and "brewery" immediately spring to mind.

I went onto the stage and then introduced Ewan and Peggy, but then Ewan turned to me and said: "we need the curtains drawn", meaning the front curtain of the stage so that the expanse of the stage behind them wouldn't be visible.

This was a Sunday and I had no idea how the curtains worked, so had to traipse off stage in search of a caretaker, who as anyone who works in educational establishments knows can be elusive. I had to leave the duo on stage during all this. I managed to find a caretaker eventually and had to walk across the stage with a pole with a hook on the end to draw the curtains, and the concert then got under way.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 09:30 AM

Nowt wrong wi' electronic tuners [ or capo's ] bloody musical snobs.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 08:41 AM

I met him just once in B irmingham at a folk club in Edgebaston, can't recall the name but it was in Waterworks RD Ladywood. I was following round the Ian Cambell Folk group, round about 1974 and I'd only just ghot interested in folk music. The Cambels were the support act and at the end of their set Ian said " I want to introduce you to someone, so we went into thev bar and there was this short beared guy at the bar, Ian said "this is Ewan McColl" and he shook my hand, seemed nice enough. I'm ashamed to say I didn't know then who he was! Shortly after he was about to begin his set, I noticed a great reverance around him, even Ian cambell who wasn't easily impressed showed due deference. Me I decided I'd leave just as he started, I did wonder why Ian gave me a baffled look! And of course later I realised what I'd missed!

Desi C
Host of
The Circle Folk Club
at Coseley working men's club
Ivyhouse Lane Coseley
]West Mids UK
WV!$ 9JH
Every Wed night, open mic
Showcase spots available
Mail crc778@aol for more info or to join free mailing list

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 06:05 AM

Schweik,
Do you ever play in a session or group setting? It certainly helps to use electronic tuners in a situation like that. Four or five people tuning by ear is a bit risky in my experience. I don't believe too many people have "perfect pitch" although some think they do.

Hoot

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 03:47 AM

I remember first being asked to join the Critics Group while I was re-wiring the lights of their home in 1968. I dithered about taking the giant step leaving family and friends and moving from from the North of England to London - no home or job to go to.
We sat down and discussed it for a couple of hours and he and Peggy offered me their hospitality for as long as it took to find lodgings and work.
It took me nearly a month to get settled - not because work or accommodation were difficult to find in London in the sixties, but because, every day I found it near impossible to tear myself away from the inevitable discussions on songs and ballads, on theatre, on literature, on politics, (not to mention the private excericise he put me through in order to catch up with the work of the Critics Group) - probably the most memorable four weeks of my life.
My abiding memory of both Ewan and Peggy is of two insprational and extremely generous people who dedicated their lives to understanding, performing and passing on what they considered to be the songs of the people - that's the memory that remains with me still, that's the memory that will remain with me for the rest of my life.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 07:49 PM

'they are not as good as the ear'

digital tuners may not be as good as some peoples ears, they're better than my lugholes by a country mile.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 07:36 PM

I organised a couple of folk concerts at Ruskin College, Oxford in the mid 1970s.

We discussed who to book, Ewan and Peggy obviously being a popular choice. Then the grumbles started on the liines of what you may have read in the 2007 posttigs above.

As a long standing fan of Ewan's songs I insisted - and we booked both Ewan and Peggy.

Ewan was extremely polite and we had a 10 minute chat about politics and folk music. He sang none of his well known song, yes a bit disappointing I admit, but they gave us an excellent performance including up to the minute political compositions.

Ian Fyvie

PS. I live a few minutes walk from where Ailie Munroe lived when she had Ewan and Peggy along as guests. One of those tragedies - that I didn't get to know Ailie until after Ewan had passed on.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Rozza
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 02:51 PM

I met Ewan and Peggy on a number of occasion and have quite a few recollections of when we booked them at Rotherham Traditional Music Club, when they came to collect my Great Aunt's songs, and when they used to come and stay with mutual friends at Healing. I particularly remember the training course they did at Ipswich - Laban's efforts, vocal exercises, tremendous knowledge and enthusiasm. very inspiring.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 01:34 PM

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny - PM
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 06:41 AM

Correction for Jim Carroll
"Tom Paley WAS notorious for tuning" Delete 'WAS' insert 'IS'. Won't use an electronic tuner as he apparently doesn't think they are accurate ?

Hoot
Tom is right, they are not as good as the ear, but they get you close, i use them and then make final adjustments by ear, they are usefulk if you have been using several different tunings and the guitar strings are getting upset about being moved about

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 12:59 PM

Met him many times. Interviewed him for my radio show a couple of times too.

My anecdotes would be favourable, yet the reputation for offhandedness and elitism are not entirely without foundation. the price of genius I guess.

Mind you, I once thought it rich when I did a floor turn warming up their night at a local club, and was asked by a friend to sing a song I wrote about the Irish famine. During their first set, he looked at me and reminded the audience that people should only sing what is indigenous to themselves. I thought it a bit rich coming from a bloke called Jim from Salford, borrowing his father's Scottish accent and singing like a bloke who might have been born Ewan.

Funny how the old bugger could bring the worst out in people. I didn't hang around for his second set that night.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 12:31 PM

Tina and I were fairly frequent guests at Ailie Munro's famed dinner parties when she lived in Sussex. Ewan and Peggy were also guests on a couple of occasions when we were there. Ailie liked to mix and match from the vast number of people that she knew with academic, media, NGO, folk scene and political backgrounds. On one of these evenings, there were a number of Ailie's fierce feminist friends from the Hove Labour Party. Ewan had been doing most of the talking and it was clear this was getting a frosty reception from some of his listeners.

Ewan left the room, presumably to go to the loo, and one of the Hove group bristled and said, "Doesn't that man have any subject of conversation but himself?" and as you can imagine, that killed all conversation stone dead for quite a while. However, in the context of what had happened up to that point in the evening, it was fair comment.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 07:21 AM

"A bonne bouche for those who like trivia: Ewan and Peggy dined with us at a seafood cafe in Vancouver (the Marine View, almost entirely shoreworkers and now long gone) a few decades back and Ewan was DISGUSTED that they fried oysters there - apparently a no-no for people who've only ever eaten them raw (I've never eaten one at all!)." John Bartlett 11 Oct 07===

Not such trivia, perhaps, If Ewan did have a fault it was over-prescriptiveness; this seems to me an example of it, even tho on a culinary rather than a folk-musical matter. There isn't only one way to cook & eat an egg, or a steak; so why cavil at others' taste in bivalve molluscs? raw oysters taste one way, fried another; I myself am fond of both.

He was indeed usually polite: but sometimes both unreasonable & unmannerly ~~ I gave an example of this in some very dodgy treatment of a close friend of mine on the What Did You Do In The War? thread on 30 Aug 09 12.37 AM.

I had that Peggy Seeger sitting on my lap for a car journey from a club in 1956. Match that, any of you?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 07:28 AM

I've seen him only once, in London, in the singers' club. He was one of those singers I longed to hear and see for a long time. In many years before that, at least four times, when I ended a journey to Scotland or Ireland with a few days in London, I found that I should have come the week before or the week after to hear MacColl. That was such a streak of bad luck that I actually found out before the next journey when the singers' club was and I arranged the vacation so that I could see the man.

I have forgotten nearly all about that evening except: A visibly old MacColl sung Joy of living which I heard for the first time then and immediately fell in love with.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 06:41 AM

Correction for Jim Carroll
"Tom Paley WAS notorious for tuning" Delete 'WAS' insert 'IS'. Won't use an electronic tuner as he apparently doesn't think they are accurate ?

Hoot

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Rowan
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 12:21 AM

Went to the Singers Club (@ Bull & Mouth) when I was in London in '77; they were both polite. I did my song in the floorspot but didn't have a chance to chat with them afterwards because, when I sat down, the guy in front of me turned around to ask me if I was from Sydney ("Melbourne" I said) and whether I knew Sedenka; I knew I'd found Linsey Pollak and we were sidetracked into gasbagging when the evening formally finished.

I saw Peggy and Ewan when they visited Melbourne and they were again, polite and interested in what I was doing; Peggy was kind enough to offer a suggestion about my concertina playing. She was concerned that, by resting it on my knee I might wear a hole in the bellows. I took the hint in the spirit it had been been offered and declined to point out that it was only one endframe that had been resting against my thigh (unlike the more commonly seen - among English players - middle of the bellows across the top of the thigh) and therefore the bellows had no contact with trousers' fabric.

A friend of mine taped Ewan's voice projection workshop, given also on a visit to Oz, and Ewan's presentation was informative and helpful. My friend lived at Wyong at the time and practised the diaphragm 'grunts' in the bathroom in syncopation with Ewan's versions of the same grunts on the tape. This caused a treefrog, resident in the tree outside the bathroom window to join in, adding yet another level of suncopation to the experience. I don't know if Ewan ever found out he'd instigated a frogs' chorus.

All positive encounters.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: theleveller
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 09:07 AM

Bit of an aside, here. I've just been reminded of my very, very old and much-loved ((scratched) vinyl copy of Tom Paley and Peggy Seeger's Whose Going To Shoe Your Pretty Little Foot on Topic. Anyone know if this is available on CD - can't seem to find it anywhere?

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,redmax
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 05:28 AM

"I had expected him to be a foot taller"

Ah yes, the well known phenomenon of surprisingly short famous people.

About the alleged posturing nature of the guy, the checked shirts with the sleeves rolled up etc. Did anyone hear the pair of Critics seafaring LPs? On one of the shanties Ewan emits such a lusty "yargh!" between one of the lines, it always makes me laugh, it's so hammy.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 02:45 AM

("Is there any instrument you can play without tuning for hours?" "The accordion!")
Tom was notorious for tuning - everybody made a joke of the time he took, including himself
He didn't play accordion, banjo, guitar and fiddle.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 05:53 PM

I made it to the Singers' Club once - in the late Seventies, I think. At the time it took place in a singularly uninviting room, but not being used to folk clubs at all I didn't really mind. Ewan and Peggy were there, Tom Paley, and a songwriter called Kevin Littlewood from Wales (different story, told in another, earlier thread). That's all I can remember.

I was a bit disappointed at the time. Apart from an exchange between Ewan and Tom ("Is there any instrument you can play without tuning for hours?" "The accordion!") humour seemed to be in short supply, but that may have been due to my, back then, limited command of English. I didn't care that much for Peggy's rather shrill voice or Ewan's slightly monotonous delivery, th be honest.

But during the interval I picked up the courage to speak to them. Ewan appeared a bit tired but explained politely about one of Martin Carthy's songs (learned from Ewan, as it said in the sleevenotes), and Peggy tried to help with one of her brother's songs. When she couldn't she jotted down his address on a slip of paper and assured me it would be perfectly ok to drop him a line. Sadly, I never did, and never made it to the club again.

Now, of course, I look back on that night as a highlight of my folkie life!

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 10:46 PM

I was usually in London a couple of times a year beginning in 1969. Always checked the newspaper for folk clubs and sometimes I was there on the right night for the Singers Club. I remember being in the Bull and Mouth at least twice and other pubs whose names I forget. I saw Ewan & Peggy a few times, once with A.L. Lloyd. On one occasion, Ewan and I were near each other at the bar and I offered him a drink. We spoke for perhaps 15 minutes. He was quite gracious, listened sincerely and was very encouraging. I remember that we talked about the folk scene in Britain, Europe and, particularly, America because he'd been unable to get a visa and had not been there for a few years.

About 1980, I was preparing The Bonnie Bunch of Roses for publication and I wrote Ewan asking whether he might like to donate a song for the book. It did not take very long for him to reply. Ewan sent "The Campanero" which he and Peggy had collected from Ben Bright. I had admired Ewan McColl for a long time before meeting him and he did not disappoint in any way, except that I had expected him to be a foot taller.

All the best,
Dan Milner

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 08:23 AM

"Things don't arrange themselves by magic and good fortune"
No they don't, they arrange themselves by hard slog; this is what MacColl did and what he urges everybody he came into contact with to do.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 05:58 AM

well I suppose it depends on how you view these other singers.

i was a fan of Ewan, not some of the others you mention (I can see they float the boats of all the traddies - but just lets not go there) - and yes I think it does require a thoughtful studied approach.

psychobabble - i don't think so. I asked myself where he came from and how he got to where he ended up.

Things don't arrange themselves by magic and good fortune. perhaps we would see better performances of traditional material if this were more widely realised.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 05:35 AM

As Jim says listen to the Sam Larner recording (can't lay my hands on it - so I can't quote chapter and verse but it is on CD) and you can virtually hear Sam Larner speaking the "Shoals of Herring" - "a shimmer we calls it, a shimmer of hearing".........

You can't do that stuff without training? So what training have all the others who came up through the revival had? Mike Waterson sang Tam Lin without any theatrical training. Never (as far as I know) went to Critics' Groups meetings. Ewan never even liked the Watersons at first thinking they were a copy of the Coppers. How wrong can you be. Now they appear on Peggy's tours of the UK. And will be there on Sunday at the next Shepley Spring Festival (blatant plug).

He was practised (he and Peggy were the first singers I ever saw to do scales before a performance) and he often sang "Highland Muster Roll" as a way of getting his voice going at the start of a performance; he was thoroughly professional; but I met him and saw his performances a number of times and he never struck me as an "act" no more than any other folk singer was anyway.

Never occurred to me? Nope I was busy listening to him perform.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 04:09 AM

PS,
I vaguely remember the Not The Nine-Oclock News sketch, but I recall vividly the Monty Python 'Arthur 'Two-Sheds' Jackson one about the artist being interviewed and failing to discuss his art because of the interviewers insistence on concentrating on his 'Two-Sheds' nickname - wonder what brought that to mind!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 03:51 AM

Sorry WMD;
I don't think I have ever read such ill informed and pseud psychobabble (about anybody).
The inspiration for the contemporary songs you mentioned came directly from actuality which was recorded from Sam Larner, Jack Elliot and other working men who were interviewed during the making of the Radio Ballads. If you listen to these field recordings (which are accessible at the British Library and Ruskin) you will see the skilful way MacColl has taken the speech patterns and the use of the vernacular of those singers and woven them into the songs. Far from being masculine posturings both were, for me, accurate and sympathetic representations of fishermen and miners.This is what made the songs and The Radio Ballads unique.
Some years ago we recorded a magnificent elderly storyteller named Jack Flannery in County Roscommon. He gave us around a dozen tales the longest of which was two-and-a-half hours, and the shortest about forty-five minutes.
Clare singer Martin Reidy (octogenarian), prided himself on long songs and once said "a song isn't worth singing unless it has a few verses in it". His 'True Lover's Discussion is slightly longer than Tam Lynn - penis substitution, do you think?   
Regarding his sitting back to front on his chair; it was part of the relaxation technique he devised for himself and discussed regularly in the Critics Group. It was never taken up by members of the group because they did not wish to be seen 'worshiping at the shrine of St Ewan' by adopting a technique that was so readily identifiable with him - (for justification of this fear, see 'finger-in-ear epithet).
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 07:12 PM

Well of course it was - he was flesh and blood like the reat of us - but onstage he was manliness personified - the great hewer, the hunter for shoals of herring. You can't do that stuff for two hours a night without training. he was an actor for godsake - a great one!
That's why he could do Tam Linn - he had that focus, it was to him his King Lear - a longer soliloquy than Shakespeare would have dared to write..

has that really never occurred to you?

Did you ever see that Not the Nine o'Clock News Sketch - where they pretend to be interviewing Lawrence Olivier. Someone or other is there pretending to be Olivier sitting in very studied attitude with his unlit pipe as a prop.
One of the team asks, do you ever stop acting Sir Laurence?

that was Ewan! with his backward chair instead of a pipe! And credit where its due - he was a damn good act!

well he fooled you apparently.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 06:38 PM

She could play things. with Ewan - he had theatrical training - the show must go on, etc - and really it was all a pose.

Really? what sort of pose? How do you know?

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 06:17 PM

I think Peggy must have given him a real sense of security on stage. She could play things. with Ewan - he had theatrical training - the show must go on, etc - and really it was all a pose. There was nothing only his presence there onstage. Peggy was so relaxed - she ate a pork pie one night onstage at The Nottingham Club that used to be at The Coop.

people weren't nice to Peggy. i remember Tony Capstick (a great singer in my opinion) saying as he introduced Freeborn Man - Ewan MaColl and peggy Seeger - they say every man carries his own cross....

Yet I think - it meant a lot to him that he could collect himself while she sang Freight train or Peggy Gordon or The Travelling Man. People found that weird sort Appalachian/Hedy West sort of voice - unnatural, when they were being asked to honestly focus on their roots.

I'm sorry if these reflections aren't about what a great guy he was - i don't know if he was ... this is just about what I remember feeling and thinking at the time.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 03:17 PM

Bob,
Heard it as being Mervin Plunkett.
If you want to tell the story with authority, the address was 35 Stanley Avenue, Beckenham, Kent.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Songster Bob
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 02:25 PM

I never met the man, but do know a story, related by one of the many Brits (it could have been John Roberts, Mike Waterson, or any number of others -- I truly can't remember) who came through Helen Schneyer's house "back in the day." I can't tell the story properly, and don't know the address that comes as the punch line, but here goes.

An acquaintance of the story-teller was looking around a junk shop and came upon a stuffed turtle. Huge thing, it was, but, on a whim, he bought it. It got wrapped in brown paper -- not enough to totally cover it, but enough to let him carry it out of the shop -- and he trotted off down to the bus line. On the bus, a woman said to him, "What's that?"

"My turtle," he answered.

"Oh, what does it eat?" she asked, oblivious of the fact that it was dead and stuffed.

"Slugs."

"Oh," she said, "My garden is full of those. Would you like me to send you some?"

"That would be very kind," he answered.

"What address should I send them to?" asked the kind old soul.

"Ewan MacColl, 50 High St., Soho*" he answered, giving Ewan's real address.


Bob

* I told you I didn't know the real address.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 12:27 PM

Opened for Maccoll & Seeger a number of years ago at the Queens Hall in Hexham. Peggy was very protective of Ewan - due to his heart condition. I had travelled up from Stockport to play the gig. Ewan was pleased to tell me he used to live there and described the location of the house (on the side of Werneth Low for those who know the place) - a house I've always coveted because of the view. During the interval Peggy was playing a song backstage and I picked up my mandolin and jammed along. Her reaction was that she was not ready to do the song in public yet but that I wouldn't be there when she was so we'd better do it in the secong half. An altogether memorable night!

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 10:14 AM

At risk of thread-creep, following on from Joe Heaney's squib :

I am slowly beginning to understand what my pupil master meant when, many years ago, he said :

'There is only one f*cked in my home, and it is I'.

(See other threads for advice as to over 60s farting, micturition ansd naughties).

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 02:27 AM

Afterthought.
Joe Heaney once said that it takes him all night to do what he used to do all night.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 02:25 AM

Jim, do you mean that as you get older you don't have to go so often? I bloody hope so"
Guest - on the contrary unfortunately.
I learned to appreciate Peggy's American analogues as much as I did the British repertoire.
Thank you for asking
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: Joe_F
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 09:29 PM

Jon Bartlett: I like oysters both raw and fried. However, in deprecating the frying of oysters MacColl agreed with another eminent person, viz. H. L. Mencken, who waxed eloquent on the subject in his columns. He once recorded having been in a respectable restaurant that had deigned to serve fried oysters because a misguided VIP had ordered them. The maitre d' should at least have had the decency to set up screens around the table, he said.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 04:32 PM

Jim, do you mean that as you get older you don't have to go so often? I bloody hope so.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl - any first-hand anecdotes?
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 01:29 PM

Winger
My apologies, I was confusing you with Leveller
As for the rest of your posting stet.
Jim Carroll