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BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties

maeve 21 Oct 07 - 06:12 PM
GUEST,Jim Martin 21 Oct 07 - 08:49 PM
Rapparee 21 Oct 07 - 09:00 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Oct 07 - 10:13 PM
pdq 21 Oct 07 - 10:38 PM
pdq 21 Oct 07 - 11:02 PM
theleveller 22 Oct 07 - 03:21 AM
maeve 22 Oct 07 - 08:31 AM
The PA 22 Oct 07 - 08:51 AM
Grab 22 Oct 07 - 09:01 AM
Rapparee 22 Oct 07 - 09:04 AM
Bert 22 Oct 07 - 02:07 PM
theleveller 22 Oct 07 - 03:16 PM
MMario 22 Oct 07 - 03:20 PM
Dave'sWife 22 Oct 07 - 06:07 PM
mrdux 23 Oct 07 - 12:32 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Oct 07 - 12:42 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Oct 07 - 12:58 AM
mrdux 23 Oct 07 - 01:23 AM
Dave'sWife 23 Oct 07 - 01:36 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Oct 07 - 10:27 AM
Metchosin 23 Oct 07 - 12:20 PM
ClaireBear 23 Oct 07 - 03:33 PM
MMario 23 Oct 07 - 03:36 PM
GUEST,Neil D 23 Oct 07 - 03:55 PM
MMario 23 Oct 07 - 04:15 PM
Anne Lister 23 Oct 07 - 04:45 PM
ClaireBear 23 Oct 07 - 05:29 PM
Anne Lister 23 Oct 07 - 06:38 PM
kendall 24 Oct 07 - 04:23 PM
Gurney 24 Oct 07 - 04:45 PM
maeve 24 Oct 07 - 04:53 PM
pdq 24 Oct 07 - 05:49 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 24 Oct 07 - 10:04 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 24 Oct 07 - 10:09 PM
maeve 24 Oct 07 - 11:24 PM
maeve 24 Oct 07 - 11:58 PM
GUEST,Redhorse at work 25 Oct 07 - 08:42 AM
kendall 25 Oct 07 - 09:00 AM
maeve 25 Oct 07 - 09:12 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 26 Oct 07 - 10:29 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 26 Oct 07 - 11:28 PM
Dave'sWife 27 Oct 07 - 12:09 AM
maeve 27 Oct 07 - 07:53 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 27 Oct 07 - 10:32 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 28 Oct 07 - 12:02 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 28 Oct 07 - 12:11 AM
Stilly River Sage 28 Oct 07 - 12:23 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 28 Oct 07 - 12:38 AM
maeve 28 Oct 07 - 10:34 AM
Stilly River Sage 28 Oct 07 - 02:41 PM
Mrs.Duck 28 Oct 07 - 06:22 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 28 Oct 07 - 10:48 PM
Dave'sWife 29 Oct 07 - 02:54 AM
maeve 31 Oct 07 - 07:40 AM
GUEST,Jonny Sunshine 31 Oct 07 - 05:58 PM
Don Firth 31 Oct 07 - 07:01 PM
GUEST,Jim Martin 31 Oct 07 - 11:55 PM
Stilly River Sage 01 Nov 07 - 12:31 AM
mrdux 01 Nov 07 - 01:26 AM
mrdux 01 Nov 07 - 10:53 PM
GUEST 01 Nov 07 - 11:43 PM
GUEST 02 Nov 07 - 08:55 AM
Stilly River Sage 02 Nov 07 - 10:18 AM
Dave'sWife 04 Nov 07 - 06:36 AM
maeve 06 Nov 07 - 09:05 AM
Stilly River Sage 06 Nov 07 - 11:24 AM
maeve 06 Nov 07 - 12:19 PM
maeve 06 Nov 07 - 11:28 PM
maeve 08 Nov 07 - 01:01 AM
Stilly River Sage 08 Nov 07 - 11:30 AM
Dave'sWife 12 Nov 07 - 06:25 PM
maeve 12 Nov 07 - 07:56 PM
Victor in Mapperton 12 Nov 07 - 08:44 PM
Mr Red 13 Nov 07 - 01:45 PM
maeve 04 Apr 09 - 08:45 AM
ClaireBear 04 Apr 09 - 01:25 PM
maeve 04 Apr 09 - 02:41 PM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 05 Apr 09 - 12:58 PM
maeve 05 Apr 09 - 01:29 PM
Dan Schatz 06 Apr 09 - 01:12 PM
maeve 07 Apr 09 - 07:07 AM
maeve 07 Apr 09 - 10:40 AM
maeve 17 Jan 13 - 10:07 AM
GUEST,sciencegeek 17 Jan 13 - 10:28 AM
GUEST,Frank 17 Jan 13 - 09:05 PM
Jim Martin 18 Jan 13 - 07:34 AM
kendall 18 Jan 13 - 07:46 AM
Ed T 18 Jan 13 - 09:09 AM

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Subject: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 21 Oct 07 - 06:12 PM

We've had a couple of interesting apple-related threads lately. The first was

Apples on the Trackside thread, from sapper on the TRU

followed by
Songs for Apple Day -Begun by the leveller

In each, I drifted into my interest in antique apple varieties. To avoid disrupting either of the two original threads any further, this is a place in which to remember your favorite older apple varieties, and describe favorite apple memories. Please feel welcome to mention newer varieties you enjoy, trees you are growing, even other fruits you'd like to try or have grown. Overt or covert leakage into musical references will be happily tolerated, but would probably reach more people in the Songs for Apple Day thread. Anyone?

maeve... growing apples and other fruits in Maine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 21 Oct 07 - 08:49 PM

One of my favourites is Egremont Russet, it is very crunchy and juicy and has a lovely sweet nutty flavour. Supermarkets probably don't like it as it has a scabby looking skin!


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Oct 07 - 09:00 PM

There were old trees that grew on a relatives property high in the hills along the Blue Ridge Parkway. I don't know what sort they were, but they were certainly good eating!


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Oct 07 - 10:13 PM

I asked about the old Winesap in one of those threads. I wish I could find one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: pdq
Date: 21 Oct 07 - 10:38 PM

The Strayman Winesap" (also called "Improved Winesap") is my favorite apple too, but I do not believe it is really an "antique". The original Winesap was replaced by a seedling found in about 1866 and it is probably a true antique variety.

                      try this source


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: pdq
Date: 21 Oct 07 - 11:02 PM

Another good one is the Spitzenburg which seems to produce well in New England.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: theleveller
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 03:21 AM

Thanks for continuing this maeve, we had a great apple day with plenty of singing, cider and apple-based food. Also picked the last of the apples.

The varieties I grow in my orchard are Ellison's Orange, Kidd's Orange Red, Tydeman's Late Orange, D'Arcy Spice, Bramley Seedling, Sunset, James Grieve and a Yorksire variety, Ribston Pippin. I also have a greengage, a damsom, a quince and two cobnuts. Don't know how many of these you grow in the US but they're old UK varieties that are not grown as much as they used to be.

This year we have had the most fantastic crop - so many I don't know what to do with thema ll.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 08:31 AM

I've heard of most of the apples and other fruits listed here. You have some good'uns. the leveller. We know cobnuts as hazelnuts.

Q- Regarding Winesaps, in the Songs about Apples thread (see link above) I posted a link to Fedco Trees in Maine They have well-researched varieties including a Winesap. With the link given by pdq you have a choice of sources to consider. With some footwork on your part, I believe you have a reasonable chance of tracking down an apple that's at least close to the version you remember.

Rapaire- Can you remember enough about the apple you liked to describe it?

I'll make a list of our apples when I have time to get back here. Anyone have other favorites?


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: The PA
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 08:51 AM

We've replanted our orchard over the last five years. We get old and odd named varities from a company called Adams Apple. We've around 60 - 70 trees not sure how many exactly thats husbands department. Some of my favourite names are Cats Head (looks just like a cats head)and Tom Phut.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Grab
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:01 AM

I'd second Egremont Russet. There are also other russet varieties around, but you'll never see those in the shops - hard enough finding Egremont Russets. The Botanical Gardens in Cambridge runs an Apple Day every year, but sadly we couldn't make it yesterday.

They're not antiques, but it's difficult to do better than a Discovery flavour-wise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:04 AM

Green with a faint touch of red. The seeds were fertile and would actually produce bearing trees.

The land had the remains of two old cabins made from American Chestnut on it, so I know the area was settles long ago. There was also a pipe run from a spring that was used in former times to cool the worm of a still (you could still see the furnace, etc. used for the still).

The land was 100 acres of high meadowland in Virginia that backed up to Shenandoh National Park. It has since been sold (to pay medical bills) and I strongly suspect that the trees are long gone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Bert
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 02:07 PM

"Beauty of Bath" a small, early apple that doesn't keep but the flavour is out of this world.
"Blenhiem Orange" like a Cox's but bigger and earlier.
"Bramley" and "Charles Ross" but they both have to be ripe to taste their best.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: theleveller
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 03:16 PM

maeve, here in Yorkshire we eat apple pie with Wensleydale Cheese, which is a mild white crumbly cheese that's delicious with pie or with a good apple. In fact, we have a saying: 'apple pie without the cheese, is like a kiss without a squeeze'. Some people in the UK think this combination is really strange but it's fantastic. Do people in the US eat cheeese with apples or apple pie?


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: MMario
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 03:20 PM

a good strong cheddar w/ apple pie or apple wedges - yes; at least in the New England/New York areas. Not sure about other regions of the country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:07 PM

In another thread someone mentioned Spitzenberg (sp?) which are a fine apple. Bert mentioned Bramley - another wonderful variety.

The thing with older apples compared to new ones is that the older ones were more all purpose and good for baking whereas today, most apples sold are engineered to look like a work of art and provide a nice crisp when bitten into. This is fine if all you want to do is eat raw apples.

I cooked with apples a great deal and not just in desserts. I loved good baked casserole of pork and apples (in slices not as sauce) and I am always chopping apples up to include in rices, grains and salads. Older varieties of apples are essential to savory chutney's because they have more natural pectin than the grocery store types. In addition, the best cider comes from older varieties because there is a natural yeast on the skins of certain apples that helps ferment the cold-pressed cider. You can drink it before it ferments and after - all with no additives.

Here's a nice site about an orchard in Virginia working with heirloom Apples:
Vintage Virginia Apples


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: mrdux
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:32 AM

Although it's not all that old, I've been enjoying Hudson's Golden Gem lately -- it was discovered in about 1929, growing in a fencerow thicket near Tangent, Oregon. a crisp, sweet golden/russeted apple, that has a hint of pear-like aroma and taste. My other favorite these days is a new-ish cultivar called Honeycrisp, out of Minnesota (1991) -- very crisp and juicy with an amazing balance of tartness and honey-like sweetness when they're ripe.

Tillamook cheddar and apple pie is pretty popular out here (Oregon).


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:42 AM

I grew up in Washington State, famous for its apples. But they've gotten smart--the iconic "Delicious" apple has some drawbacks. You can't cook with it and it doesn't taste as good as some of the others, so most of the growers are (pardon me) "branching out."

One that we see here in Texas that seems to be coming from Michigan right now is the Honeycrisp. I'm guessing this is probably an extremely new apple. It doesn't have the shelf-life of many of the others, though. We get it when it's ripe and that's all, it doesn't seem to come from apple warehouses all year round (that's probably good!) It looks a little more old fashioned, a bit lumpy at times and they can be very large. But they do taste good.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:58 AM

mrdux, I see we cross-posted. I'm glad to see someone else is enjoying that apple also!


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: mrdux
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:23 AM

SRS -- in fact, I'm enjoying one right now -- from Washington State -- as I write.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:36 AM

OKAy - May favorite older apple varieties:

Northern Spy - can't go wrong with that one, an all-around great cooking apple
Campfield
Harrison
Baldwin
Jonagolds
Pippins - too many different varieties to mention

Jonagolds are available here in los Angeles and they're a cross between Jonathans and Golden Delicious (I think - sometimes the names don't follow the obvious derivations). Whenever there is a sale on them for 10 pounds for $5 I stock up and store them in a clean cooler just for apples so that no other vegetables or fruits will contaminate them with Ethylene gas and make them rot. These apples keep so well that if you store them properly in a cool and dark place, safely away from ethylene producers, they will keep for months and be just as good as they were the day you bought them.

Folks with nice dark cellars might want to keep this in mind when apples are cheap this fall. Any apple with crisp flesh that doesn't go mealy will store for months if you do it right. Buying a bunch from an orchard at harvest and then using them all winter is a good way to save money. Just be careful to separate out all the apples with even the slightest of bruising and eat or cook those immediately. There's truth to the old saying that one bad apple will spoil the whole barrel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:27 AM

When I moved away from home, where my mother was the pie maker, and started doing it on my own, I made a few soupy discoveries. Like "don't make an apple pie out of red delicious apples." It is the wettest pie you've ever seen. I use Granny Smith for cooking, but I also use some of the others--Gala is a good eating apple and it doesn't cook up as juicy as the delicious.

My mother used to make an apple cinnamon coffee cake when I was a kid that has really visceral connections. Coffee cakes were small, easy, and inexpensive to make for a houseful of hungry kids on a cool rainy day. I am still looking for the perfect recipe--somehow that one didn't get transmitted along with the rest of her recipes.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Metchosin
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:20 PM

I don't think you can beat a Yellow Transparent, when it comes to pie. My old tree, which we originally rescued in a very sad state from my mother's driveway widening project and transplanted to our property, developed into a prolific producer for many years, despite its rough beginnings and none to ideal location here. Sadly, the tree eventually succumbed when a backhoe accidentally took a large swipe out of it.      

The Transparent is a very early apple, not a good keeper and bruises easily. Now I'm even grateful for any bruised windfalls full of wasps that I can come across. I just peel them, slice off the brown parts and put them up in freezer.

Recently, we have had trouble with bears pushing over our remaining two apple trees and I've given up and let them go to it. But if they had done the same to our Transparent, I'd have probably fought them for the treasure. Best pie in the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: ClaireBear
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 03:33 PM

I have a neighbor who grafts fruit trees. He has a tree outside his door with enough varieties grafted on to produce a steady stream of fruit from mid July to late November.

I digress, but I am coming to a point: My favorite of those apples is the Pink Pearl. Not antique, but its pink marbled flesh is both very tasty and beautiful to look at in, say, a salad. Apparently it's good for pies and applesauce too.

Here's a description: "Bite into this yellow-skinned apple and you'll be surprised by a bright pink flesh, as well as a refreshing sweet, juicy tartness. Medium sized apple with an attractively blushed skin. Rich, sweet flavor with a fine aroma. Good dessert quality; makes colorful applesauce or pie filling. Place the tree in a focal area of your landscape so you can enjoy the showy deep pink blossoms in Spring. Developed in Humboldt County, CA by Albert Etter. 600 chill hours. USDA zones 6-10; Sunset zones 6-8, 14-17."

Available for shipment nationwide from this site, and probably from a lot of other dealers as well.

(By the way, it needs a pollinator...but that's not going to be a problem for you, right?)

A wonderful apple!

Claire


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: MMario
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 03:36 PM

figures! Even the interesting APPLE varieties won't make it here!


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 03:55 PM

I worked a few summers on an orchard when quite young. There were 2 varieties of Northern Spy. The older variety was more speckly red and green and had a very unique flavor, tart and sweet and nutty all at the same time. There were also 2 kinds of Red Delicious as well.
The older variety was sweet but mellower than the new. The old gent that owned the orchard called the newer ones Double Red Delicious. Thats what you find in your grocery store and it is way too sweet and way too juicy.
    Around here (Ohio) some restaurants still serve apple pie with a slice of Swiss cheese on top, but not so much anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: MMario
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:15 PM

Juicy? Red Delicious? I have never seen a juicy red delicious. they are usually sawdust dry. Of course they turn to mush if you try to cook them so I know there is juice in there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Anne Lister
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:45 PM

We've had some great apples from our Lord Lambourn (still a sapling but doing well). And we also have a couple of old varieties which are too young in tree terms to bear much fruit - we're not sure yet if they're Slack me Girdle, Catsheads or Dr Fosters. One managed to produce two apples (both of which fell from the tree and rolled down out of reach - we have a steep slope - before we could taste them, but they're beautifully russett in colour).
Any expert is welcome to come and visit to identify what we have!

Anne


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: ClaireBear
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 05:29 PM

So would that make them Dr Foster's tumblers?

(sorry, couldn't resist)


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Anne Lister
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 06:38 PM

Or possibly from a girdle that was too slack...

Anne


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: kendall
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 04:23 PM

Red Astracans (sp)
Wolf Rivers
Golden delicious


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Gurney
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 04:45 PM

Early Russet, the dry, floury type.
Hard to cross-pollinate, I've heard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 04:53 PM

Hey there, Kendall. We'll be grafting Red Astrichans this coming spring for sale in the spring of 2009. We're told they're great for cider.

Wolf Rivers have a mixed reputation; some love the flavor, size, and beautiful appearance. Others claim they're pretty but tasteless. How did your family use them? Fresh eating, drying, baking? A neighbor has an old Wolf River tree, and we could graft from that.

Sinsull's Yellow Delicious apples are quite tasty, and will be even better with a bit of care. We may be grafting some of those, as well.

theleveller- Yes, a nice bit of cheddar is delicious with apple pie! I'm in Maine with a Southern heritage, and it was also an expected combination for generations of my True Love's family in New Hampshire. It needs to be good cheese, however. Processed "cheese food" just won't do!

Anne/Tabster- Oh, do I have a Robert Frost poem for you! It'll take me a little while to post it, but it's made to order for your two-apple tree!

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: pdq
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 05:49 PM

"Sinsull's Yellow Delicious apples are quite tasty, and will be even better with a bit of care. We may be grafting some of those, as well."

The merits of the Golden Dellicious are the subject of some debate, but it usually makes a strong tree with nice dark foliage. May I recommend grafting to it rather than grafting it onto another tree.

Another vote here for Northern Spy, but it does require more chill time than most and should not be tried in warm climates.

Belflower is rather hard to find and grows whippy and needs a good pruner to keep it in control. In sone semi-tropical parts of the South, Southern California and Texas, it is one of the few varieties that will set fruit, having (as far as I know) the least chill requirement of any variety.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:04 PM

My favorite variety of antique apple is the BLACK TWIG

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:09 PM

Although for JAM - the American Crab Apple - that is common along irrigation ditches - and will bring your mouth to "lock-jaw" with a cherry-sized munch....cannot be bettered.

Slightly rosey in color - you will find the jam a five star winner in most county fairs.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:24 PM

Yes, Black Twig is one I'd love to try. What did you especially like about it, Gargoyle?

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:58 PM

pdq- Thanks for your suggestions. We have Bellflower, and will likely be grafting Northern Spy, as well. It sounds as if you have or have had an orchard?

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,Redhorse at work
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 08:42 AM

On a visit to the US, we stopped at Pomona Orchards, near Ellijay Ga. In the shop they had more varieties of apple for sale than I'd ever seen in one place. In the corner they had a counter selling hot pies. Looking forward to a pie made from an unusual variety, I went to the counter. "What have you got?" I asked. The girl looked at me as if I was stupid. "We got apple" she said........

nick


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: kendall
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:00 AM

To tell the truth Maeve, we boys didn't eat the Wolf River apples. They were bitter, but, the size was perfect for throwing at each other.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:12 AM

Ha! That figures, Kendall. That would hurt! Dis you ever jam a small green apple on the end of a long stick, then lob the apple out at your brothers?

I believe that we'll try drying them instead of throwing them.

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 26 Oct 07 - 10:29 PM

Just cannot for the life of me, find any indigenous varieties in shops here in Ireland - so I tend to go without rather than support the outrageous food-miles syndrome!

Will we ever, ever get a sane world?


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Oct 07 - 11:28 PM

To: Mauve
RE: Why Black Twig??????

It is crisp..............................................................................................it is tart........................it has a touch of sweetness....................................................................................and is FULLY apple-flavored............................

without those boutigue
strawberry - raspberry - plum
NUANCES/ANNOYANCES!!!

It is an "earthy apple" .................................................................................one..................worthy.............................of..........................tempting....................................Adam....................in ......THE GARDEN.......

It is small enough to eat alone.....without having to share......

................................ it is also RARE

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 12:09 AM

We used to eat those little green crab apples with salt when we were kids. Just salted them and ate them but you were in for a world of woe if you ate more than two. (horrible abdominal cramps - diarhea)

They are nice in a chutney with vinegar, onions, cucumbers and some sour cherries


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 07:53 AM

Thanks Gargoyle, for more info on Black Twig. Hmmm, I wonder if we can track down some scions. By the way, Mauve is a good color, but I'm maeve.

Guest, Jim Martin- Do you have a place to plant an apple tree at home?
Then you coulds graft on any of the local varieties you wanted. The scions are available over there.

Dave's wife- I bet that would be tasty. I've know folks who enjoyed raw rhubarb eaten the same way!

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 10:32 PM

I planted a couple of Irish varieties, one called April Queen, the other I forget the name, but they should cross-pollinate; I aquired them from Irish Seed Savers who are doing a wonderful job for local provenance.

Unfortunately, where I live is very exposed, being 400ft up a mountain, facing all the elements which blast in from the SW (i.e. the Atlantic); I've either had blossom or apples forming, but they've always (so far) been torn off by the wind. I am gradually getting more shelter from a hedge which I planted around the haggard so, here's hoping!

http://www.irishseedsavers.ie


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 12:02 AM

Maeve-

Are you requesting Black-Twig Scions?

Do you have a tree for top working?

We have a six week window between fall-harvest (IMMEDIATE) and spring-bloosem.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 12:11 AM

You are into a freeze in Maine.....

I grow 6-hour-sunlight roses from Maine....if you would (chearish) a Black Twig - how would you like it .... Rootone (hormone/plastic) or in waxed parafine?

Have you successfuly BUD grafted before?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 12:23 AM

Oooh! Interesting offer, Gargoyle!

I used to work with the fellow who did the grafting in the Forest Service plantation on our district. Via helicopter they would pluck the apical meristem from the tops of various evergreen trees at specific elevations and graft it onto root stock down in the easy to reach (elevation-wise) orchard. It's pretty interesting. I've never tried it, though.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 12:38 AM

SRS - you are a "kook"

RE: "Forest Service" Plantation Grafting

The process is skillful, it is VERY time consuming, it is done through manual labor.

Hellicopters would NEVER be used in grafting apple-trees.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 10:34 AM

Thanks, Gargoyle, for the generous offer. We do both bud grafting and grafting onto hardy rootstock. I would indeed have cherished a Black Twig, and and we do have several trees for topworking, but have learned that they are not hardy in Maine. Thank you very much for thinking of it, though. We do have a King David, an 1893 chance seedling from a Jonathan- Black Twig cross, so that will have to do for us.

SRS- It appears you are referring to the grafting of evergreens? It sounds like an interesting process. Do you remember what species and what size material was being harvested and then grafted? What was the purpose of the project?

Jim Martin- I'm glad you've found such a good source for apples. What other Irish varieties would you like to have?

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 02:41 PM

Fat lot you know, Garg! The Forest Service had a two-pronged approach to getting good seed stock. There were large multi-agency nurseries around the country, and there were nurseries at the district level where foresters with the interest and training would try some of their own methods. At Darrington, Washington, they used to take a helicopter out and someone in the door with a long trimming pole and a basket on the end would literally lean out and lop the tops off of standing timber at different elevations, and then it was grafted onto root stock in the nursery to see if they could later get seeds from trees that had evolved at the given elevations. You'll find reference to some of this research here. I've seen photos of the helicopter work, but it was a long time ago and they don't seem to have made it online.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 06:22 PM

We had atree in our garden which bore the Lord Lambourne variety. I noticed on TV the other day that a farmer has decided to revive a lot of the older varieties including that one so I will look out for them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 10:48 PM

MAEVE- We only have three trees, black-twig.

It would be a benefit to "the community" if you would attempt to graft "three - parafin - buds" into hearty Maine stock.

If you are able???? We can provide....the week the "ice-goes-out"....but will store in hyrador from budding until you season.

The world prepares for climate warming....but those who read the signs.....say another "ice-age."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Two New Zealand orchards are ready....but six months is too long for storage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 02:54 AM

Has anyone here had much experience with Citrus growing? I really want to cobnvert my empty but very sunny sideporch to a Dwarf Citrus or Small Citrus container garden. I have room for about 3 full sized containered treess and twice that in dawrf trees. I'm hoping to get two different lemons, 2 limes, a Citron and then it's up for grabs.

Of course, I have to buy all these within Califnornia since we can't import citrus or fruit tress.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 07:40 AM

Mrs. Duck- I've never grown any citrus here (with no appropriate indoor/greenhouse space), although If I had a heated sunroom or greenhouse attached to the house I'd have a Meyers lemon and a blood orange for starters. It sounds like you have the start of a great idea. It would smell so sweet with the blossoms!

I do have a group of 6-8" setsuma oranges grown from seed just for fun. They're by the kitchen sink under a plant light. There's some good information available online. I'll take a meander when I have a chance.

Gargoyle- Thanks for the offer, but we're just not willing to waste even one of your precious Black Twig buds when we know it's simply too cold here. We are also not set up for agricultural permits for importing. Thank you for the kind offer!

Mrs. Duck- If you come across an online version of the story about the farmer you mentioned, I'd like read it. We're collecting such stories for our files to use in customer education.

Stilly River Sage- Thanks for the link. Amazing!

Who else has a favorite apple?


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 05:58 PM

We have a Claygate Pearmain in our garden we bought as a mere sapling a few years ago. Can't remember where we got it, it was somewhere in Buckinghamshire that specialises in old and obscure varieties.
We got 5 very little, but tasty apples this year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 07:01 PM

I took a computer class back around 1980, and they used Apple IIs in the classroom. But the first computer I bought, in 1983, was a KayPro II. Great little machine!

(Well, somebody had to do it!)

I don't know if I have a favorite apple, but I do have preferences. Actually, as a denizen of Washington State, I prefer the Golden Delicious to the Red Delicious. Juicier, sweeter. I find that the Red Delicious, although they look like the ideal apple, frequently lack flavor and tend to be a little on the mealy side.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 31 Oct 07 - 11:55 PM

Guest,Johnny Sunshine.

It wasn't here was it?

http://www.bernwodeplants.co.uk/apples.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 12:31 AM

A sampled-hander-outer at Central Market yesterday was handing slices of Honeycrisp and said it was a cross between a Golden Delicious and a MacIntosh. And that it is patented by the University of Minnesota. At least, that's their story at the market.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: mrdux
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 01:26 AM

SRS -- your market has it partly right (at least according to my apple bible: Apples for the 21st Century, by Warren Manhart (1995)):
Honeycrisp is a cross between Honeygold and Macoun. Honeygold is a cross between Golden Delicious and Haralson (another Minnesota apple). Macoun is a cross between McIntosh and Jersey Black. . . so two of Honeycrisp's grandparents are Golden Delicious and McIntosh. And it is patented by the U of Minnesota (US plant patent #7197).

michael


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: mrdux
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 10:53 PM

well, so much for the infallibility of bibles:

December 29, 2004
Surprising 'Honeycrisp' Information Released

"Today in an interview with Topper Sponsel of Minnesota Harvest Apple Orchard, the first public release of unexpected information regarding the origins of the highly popular Honeycrisp apple was made by David Bedford, head of the apple breeding program at the University of Minnesota's Agricultural Experiment Station. It answers one question that wasn't even being asked, and leaves another that was thought to be known but, as it appears now, may never be known.

"Records and public releases from the University of Minnesota from 1991 to the present have identified the parentage of Honeycrisp as the cross 'Macoun' x 'Honeygold'. But recently completed DNA testing has determined that neither Macoun nor Honeygold are parents of Honeycrisp. That's the answer to the question no one was asking.

"The testing determined for certain that Keepsake, another apple from the University of Minnesota's apple breeding program that was released in 1978, is one of the parents. But, despite extensive searching, the other parent has not been identified. There is no DNA match among any of the varieties that are thought to be possible parents."

from http://www.applejournal.com/

Keepsake, for what this may be worth, is claimed to be a cross between a "Malinda" and a "Northern Spy." also, it appears that in the UK, Honeycrisp is known as "Honeycrunch."

whatever its parentage, it's a fine apple.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 11:43 PM

The more you say "NO" the more I say "YES"

Perhaps, they are more hearty than expected.....

Expect a secret Santa to secure until budding. Maine's restrictions are more Canadian soft-wood, and perhaps Aroostook County potato.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:55 AM

Jim Martin: , yes, that's the place, I'd completely forgotten the name! They certainly know their fruit there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:18 AM

"Kentish Fillabasket." What a great name! I'd like to grow a nice crisp Tarrant Packabushel if someone has found something like that. :)

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 06:36 AM

Oh yes, Honeycrisps are really a nice eating apple. Interesting story about the DNA results.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 09:05 AM

Yes, the Honeycrisp parentage clarification was one of the interesting sidenotes at one of this year's Maine Apple Day workshops. I'd love to add one to our young orchard.

SRS- Where did you find that wonderful apple name?

As promised way up thread, I've compiled a list of the apples we're growing here in Maine. (Most of our trees are from Fedco Trees, PO Box 520, Waterville, Maine 04903-0520.) In the last eight or so years, we have planted the following apples:

Airie Red Flesh, Black Oxford, Blake, Chenango Strawberry, Cortland, Dudley Winter, Garden Royal, Kavenagh, King David, Liberty, Major, Sandhill, Sweet Sixteen, Opalescent, with the addition of topworked trees of Yellow Bellflower and Sweet Sal. I think I'm missing a couple.

Crabapples for pollination, fruit, and beauty include: Dolgo, Kerr (red flesh), Radiant, Sargent's Weeping, Brandywine, and an unidentified semi-weeping crab. Several wild trees add to our stock of usable apples. Some of the wildings will be used for topworking of more desirable hardy varieties.

We have the following home grafted trees in pots from successful grafting last winter: Airie Red Flesh, Briggs Auburn, Cox's Orange Pippen, Kings Mills crab, Lowland Raspberry, Milo Gibson, Northern Spy, Opalescent, Pitmaston Pineapple, Red Free, St. Edmonds Russet, Somerset of Maine, Wealthy, Westfield Seek-No-Further, and Wolf River. Some of these we plan to plant in our orchard, others we'll sell in the spring. This winter we'll graft many more for sale in Spring 2009. Any apple bud grafting we do will be in late June-July.

Our pears include Seckel and Summercrisp, both of which had their first significant crops this year and are beyond delicious. Our Tyson hasn't been in place long enough to fruit yet, and the Golden Spice had a bumper crop for the first time and was inedible, and so will either be topworked with a better selection or removed entirely. I'd like a Vermont Beauty! We have last winter's grafted pears in pots as well: Comtesse Clara Frijs, Gorham, Magness, Seckel, and Summer Crisp.
I love pears so much I'd love to plant them all, but that would be excessive!

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 11:24 AM

maeve, that name came from the site posted by guest Jim Martin.

Bernwode Plants - Traditional British Apple Trees. I made up the Tarrant name. Someone else will have to make up the apple to go with it. :)

Pears and peaches, favorites of my childhood. I have a neighbor with a very good pear tree, I need to stop and take a look and get that same type. I have space in the back for a few fruit trees. Just have to make sure I have the pump in place to get them enough water in dry years. (I live on a creek.)

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 12:19 PM

Thanks, SRS. I followed the link provided by Guest Jim Martin (thank you) and spent many happy moments perusing the Bernwold Plants site. I'm glad Guest Jonny Sunshine happened to mention the location of the source of his Pearmain tree (thank you, too). I've ordered a catalogue. They don't send plants to the States, but I think I'll learn a lot just from the catalogue. They do have gift tokens for fruit trees available, so I could save up to send one as a gift for a musical friend in Scotland who is redoing the garden.

I very much appreciate sll of the contributions to this thread. Thanks, all!

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 11:28 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 01:01 AM

One last refresh...

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 11:30 AM

I picked up a beautiful honeycrisp at the market to use with dinner tonight. I can't afford many, at $3 a pound (this one apple was over a pound all by itself). On the other hand, my garden tomatoes are coming in like gangbusters this week, so we will at least have some affordable produce on the table!

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 06:25 PM

Trader Joe's has finally begun selling apples by the pound in stead of in bags and they have most of the good eating and cooking apples for just 39 cents a pound! I bought as much as I thought I could reasonably store for the next couple of months. I got some Galas, Fuji, Granny Smith's, Rome and oh darnit, I can't remember what else.

I'm going to use a mix of Granny Smith's and Galas in my traditional Apple cakes that I make in old cookie tins and then mail out to friends for holiday gifts. It's a bit like Porter Cake but not as strongly spiced. The cake ages very well and will keep for a couple of weeks once sealed up properly. It never tastes its best until it's aged at least 2 days. Once you start slinging it though - it goes quickly! I keep the recipe in my head but I'll attempt o write down the measurements when I make it and post here.

I never did get around to making the Pyracantha Jam on the weekend past. No bother tho - the berries are still in fine condition. I plan on making two types one a hot-spicy Pyracantha-Chili Jam with some of those apples tossed in for body and the other a nice Ginger Pyracantha and Cranberry jam. Pyracantha is is the same larger familt that roses and apples are so it should be a good mix. People often think the berry flesh is poisonous but its not - just the seeds as are apple seed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 07:56 PM

Dave's Wife- your cake and jelly plans sound delicious! I'd love to see your recipes for each.

Meanwhile, a crane dug up all of our peaches and a quince today to clear the way for a new septic system. I have no clue where we can replant them, but perhaps we'll have a better idea of what to do tomorrow after we've dug everything else that must come out.

The good news is that this upgrade means that eventually I won't have to carry out wash water by hand from my wringer washer. Yippee!

Sigh...

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 08:44 PM

My own choice is either Royal Gala or Egremont Russet. I grew up in apple country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 01:45 PM

Sturnham


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 04 Apr 09 - 08:45 AM

I'm looking for information about an apple called "Early Gentian." Do any of you apple-speaking folks know of such a thing? I've been googling all over the place as well as having consulted our many print resources. Any leads will be appreciated.

Thanks,

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: ClaireBear
Date: 04 Apr 09 - 01:25 PM

Maeve, I found nothing at all about any apple called a gentian, early or otherwise. I did, though, find an antique apple variety on foodhistory.com's "A Is for Apple" page whose name sounds as though it could have mutated into "gentian":

"Ginet (AKA Genet, Geneton, Geniton, Gennetin, Genneting, Gennetting, Indiana Jannetting, Janet, Janetting, Jefferson Pippin, Jenetings, Jeniton, Jenitons, Jennett, Jennette, Jenniton, Missouri Janet, Never Fail, Neverfail, Rall's Genet, Ralls Genet, Raule Jannet, Raule's Genet, Raule's Janet, Raule's Janett, Raule's Janette, Raule's Jannet, Raule's Jannette, Raule's Jannetting, Raule's Jennetting, Raul's Gennetting, Rawle's Genet, Rawle's Janet, Rawle's Janett, Rawle's Jannet, Rawle's Jennet, Rawle's Jenneting, Rawle's Jennette, Rawl's Janet, Red Neverfail, Rock Remain, Rockremain, Rock Rimmon, Rockrimmon, Royal Janette, Winter Genneting, Winter Jannetting, Yellow Jannett, Yellow Jannette)

"This apple was first propagated in the United States from the farm of Caleb Ralls in Amherst County, Virginia. Ralls may have worked with clippings brought from France by Edmund Charles Genet, French ambassador to this country, at the urging of then–Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson, around 1800. Medium-sized yellow apple, covered and striped in varying shades of pink and red. Crisp, juicy, and tender."

None of the pseudonyms are "early" anything, though. Good luck finding your apple!

Claire


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 04 Apr 09 - 02:41 PM

Thanks, Claire. That's about as far as I got in the search. I have a grafting scion marked as "Early Gentian" and need to know something about it before using one of our small stock of rootstock. I see I'll have to try to track down the person who donated that variety to a recent scion swap, where we picked it up. Could be a self-named rather than heritage variety, of course, which would explain why neither you nor I have found any references.

Thank you for your efforts.

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 05 Apr 09 - 12:58 PM

This is getting me excited for next year- THIS year we are building our house, and have had to remove far too many trees so the trucks can get in and out- so next year, when building's all over, we plan to start a small apple orchard- I'm thinking probably 3-4 trees. I know nothing about such things, so will do my homework beforehand.
Maeve, I'm in about the same planting zone as you (I'm in sw NH) so expect future PMs from me asking for advice!
This has been a fascinating thread!
Allison


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 05 Apr 09 - 01:29 PM

Allison- PMs are welcome. You are at an exciting point in your home-building. We've planted many apple, pear, plum, and cherry trees on our little farm, and are now grafting and selling apples and pears. Glad to help if we can.

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 06 Apr 09 - 01:12 PM

We have a tree in our backyard, which we are told is grimes golden - a really delicious ancestor of the Granny Smith that works well baked or just eaten. Two years ago we got a bumper crop, which we stored in the fridge into the winter. Then last year we went on vacation just as they were starting to set, and came back to find squirrels had eaten every last one of them - save one apple, way up at the top and out of reach, that sat there like a tease until one day it fell - and a deer ate it.

Maybe this year we'll have better luck again.

Dan


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 07:07 AM

Dan- We have a Grimes Golden and look forward to harvesting apples in a year or two. Good luck with this year's crop from your tree.

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 10:40 AM

More heirloom apple descriptions to enjoy


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: maeve
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 10:07 AM

Refresh for Virginia Tam


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 10:28 AM

the Finger Lake region of western New York, besides sharing much of the same geology as Wales, is a prime apple producing area... as well as grapes. At the north end of Seneca Lake is located the Geneva Experimental Station that has both preserved and developed many fine apple and fruit varities.

That said, my husband fell in love with the Westfield Seek nae Further, to the point where we named our Highland Cattle breeding operation Seek Nae Further back when we belonged to the registry. I enjoy too many fine varieties to name a favorite, but the Yellow Banana apple always made the best applesauce.

We used to press the "wild" apples and crabapples that grow in the farm hedgerows and woodlot to make fine cider & vinegar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 09:05 PM

Maeve's link above to more heirloom apples listed "Gravenstein".
When my Parents purchased their small dairy/piggery property in 1951,(I was 7) the then owner had established a quite large mature orchard full of apples, figs, apricots, peaches, nectarines, plums, quinces, oranges, lemons and almonds with several varieties of each.
My enduring memory in early Autumn/Fall is of picking and eating a fallen Gravenstein apple chilled from the dewey grass. Makes me salivate still. Same for the prune plums dried in the grass.
There is not much left now, figs, two plums and one quince mostly destroyed by white ants with one fallen limb still growing.
I have managed to strike some cuttings from the old quince to plant in my orchard I am establishing. They will keep some memories alive.
Quinces cooked slowly on the wood stove until they turned a lovely deep shade of red. Served with cream or custard.
I am sourcing a Gravenstein or two to plant as well this season.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Jim Martin
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 07:34 AM

The Egremont Russet is a gorgeous apple but supermarkets don't seem to what to stock it because of the old 'chestnut' of it having a rough looking skin!

http://www.orangepippin.com/apples/egremont-russet


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 07:46 AM

This is a very nice thread. Thanks Maeve.

For pies, McIntosh or Cortland. For raw eating Golden delicious.


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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 09:09 AM

As a lad, we had a Red Astrachan apple tree in our orchard, which I would climb for the crisp, sour variety. I believe someone already mentioned it. I recall they had red colours throughout the white flesh.

We also had an early variety of yellow transparent, that locals called August apples, many varities of crab apples and sweet apples, not sure of the variety (could have been Delblush.


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