BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again

Subject: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 21 Oct 07 - 08:19 PM

here are several wildfires on the East and South edges of San Diego County. At present none of these is anywhere near my area. I don't know of anyone who is affected, either. But them as are are in a heap of panic just now; 1 civilian has been killed, 4 people airlifted to the Emergency Burn Unit at Scripps, and a range of neighborhoods being evacuated.

ABC News' story:

by NOAKI SCHWARTZ Associated Press Writer
MALIBU, Calif. Oct 21, 2007 (AP)
More than a half-dozen wildfires driven by powerful Santa Ana winds spread across Southern California on Sunday, killing one person near San Diego and destroying several homes and a church in celebrity-laden Malibu.

No details were immediately available about the death in San Diego County, but four firefighters and four other people were injured and taken to hospitals, said Roxanne Provaznik, a spokeswoman for the California Department of Forestry.

The fire was among at least eight blazes stretching from north of Los Angeles to San Diego, as hot weather and strong winds marked the height of the traditional wildfire season.

The fire responsible for the death and eight injuries burned about 2,500 acres near a highway. A second charred about 3,000 acres in northern San Diego County and was threatening homes near Witch Creek, Provaznik said.

Meanwhile, in Malibu, about 500 firefighters worked to protect about 200 homes in several upscale communities nestled in the hills, officials said.

The blaze, which started in Malibu Canyon, had charred at least 1,000 acres and destroyed a church and several homes, one of them a landmark castle. No residents or firefighters were injured, Los Angeles County Fire Chief P. Michael Freeman said...."

And from KPBS:

"Two major wildfires are burning on opposite sides of San Diego County.A 2,500-acre fire is burning in southeast San Diego. It has killed at least one civilian and burned four more. Four firefighters are also hurt. There are emergency evacuations in place.

The western most point of the fire is Barrett School Road and Highway 94. Dry, hurricane-force Santa Ana winds are pushing the flames west. The Sheriff's department has ordered mandatory evacuations for residents of Barrett Junction and Dulzura.
Another fire, this one in northeast San Diego, west of Julian, has burned 3,000 acres. Structures are threatened, but it's not clear how many. The Sheriff's department has advised evacuations of more than 5,000 families in San Diego Country Estates. That's in Ramona.

Residents with an emergency are advised to call 9-1-1. If you're looking for information but it's not an emergency, call 2-1-1.

Again, two major wildfires in San Diego County. A 2500-acre fire near the Mexican border in southeast San Diego. That has killed one person and injured several more. A 3000-acre fire is burning in northeast San Diego, west of Julian."

---

So fat, so good. There are some predictions the Santa Ana winds that cruise this county this time of year may climb to unprecedented gale strength. But the weather predictions are often loopy around here. We shall see.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Oct 07 - 08:47 PM

Stay calm, keep the roof wet, and if they come near prepare to evacuate. It's really about all you can do.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: bobad
Date: 21 Oct 07 - 09:01 PM

Some of that slimy, fire-retardant gel that JinK posted about would be handy.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 21 Oct 07 - 10:07 PM

Too late for that slime; and fortunately, we have a nearly-new shingle roof, not a shake one. But if it comes close I will put the hoses on it.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Janie
Date: 21 Oct 07 - 10:18 PM

Glad you checked in, Amos. Hope you are able to stay out of harm's way.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Oct 07 - 10:35 PM

I was down there visiting my daughter when a horrendous fire season just would not quit (1994?). It was October, as I recall, and we could see the flames and heavy smoke across to the east- it was at the Wild Animal Park at that time. Before it was done it also devastated Laguna Hills and wiped out a whole lot of hillside brush. I remember it even jumped a highway.

Scary stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 12:06 AM

Ebbie:

Dang! That was the weekend we had a visit from Aine from Texas and took her down to Mexico to see the Bufadora (blowhole). When we got back to San Diego the sky was completely ashen and we had to scramble around readying evacuation gear just in case. It got closer to us than this one probably will, I think. But you missed a fun trip!!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 12:17 AM

Sounds like it! Must have been a shock coming home, though, with a possible evacuation staring you in the face.

Thinking of the Santa Ana- one time I had been at my daughter's for just a few days before I told my son in law that I thought I was coming down with a cold. He asked me about my symptoms then said that it probably was the winds. He said that the Santa Ana coming off the desert makes many people sneeze and sniffle and wheeze.

I do like the desert though. They have taken me out there a number of times. I like the whole area actually. If only there weren't so many other people who felt the same way!

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 03:56 AM

Latest update. No gains yet.


|A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:39 AM

Lawn sprinklers on the roof work well and require less work.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 10:00 AM

Getting worse == the fire, pushed west by high winds, has jumped the I-15 interstate; major communities of Poway and Rancho Bernardo are on evac orders.

The Del Mar Faire grouonds is being used as an evac center for the thousands of evacuees, as are several other sites.

No good news yet.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Alice
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 12:22 PM

I saw some of the footage of the fire going through Malibu on tv last night. The winds where you are sure make it scary.
Good luck and take care.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 01:01 PM

The local PBS station is filling the air with updates; there are large area evacs, and gusts up to 60 mph are preventing aircover for the fire-fighting effort; I15 is closed, in one 17 mile stretch. Evac extended as far west as I-5 north of 76. 250,000 evacuations, county wide.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 01:07 PM

Just got an email from my daughter in north Escondido. They can see the smoke and flames but it's not traveling in their direction yet. My grand daughter is housesitting in east Escondido and my daughter is going over there to be with her in case they have to evacuate their friends' house.

Scary.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 01:33 PM

"Last updated: October 22, 2007 10:29 AM

San Diego County Fires:

At least 7 fires are burning around San Diego County
Officials are ordering mass evacuations between I-5 and I-15
Officials are not able to fight the fires with air support because of the dangerous conditions
Flames are approaching the Wild Animal Park; Some animals are being moved
Qualcomm Stadium has been opened as an evacuation center
County Supervisor Ron Roberts:
"100,000 acres have burned and 250,000 people have been evacuated"

San Diego Fire Chief Tracey Jarman
"Emergency officials are stretched thin in San Diego"

360 firefighters
75 engine companies
10 ambulances
That leaves the city with 3 engines, 7 trucks and 2 batallion chiefs
Mayor Sanders:

The fire is moving quickly and fire officials are unable to use air assets because it's too dangerous.

The strategy is to evacuate areas ahead of the fire. The Witch fire is burning in a north-west direction and moving quickly. Many homes are burning, but no official count. San Diego residents are asked to stay off the roads, stay at home and minimize cell phone usage.

Fire Chief Bill Metcalf

The Witch fire is getting worse. The wind has increased during the last hour (between 9-10 a.m.). This fire is the most active and dangerous, but there are fires in other areas around the county, including: Escondido, Rancho Bernardo, North Poway, Forest Ranch area, and fire has crossed the I-15 north of Lake Hodges.

The Harris fire is at 20,000 acres burned."

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 02:31 PM

Lake Arrowhead at the top of the rim is on fire and blowing down hill. Fires are within 7 miles of downtown San Diego. CNN is showing only old video now.

3 days ago a guy named Mohammed from San Diego told my friend that he was coming to visit for 2 weeks. He arrived yesterday and we were talking about the drought conditions out here. He was not clear as to why he is visiting either to my friend, me or my wife.
Just because he is from Saudi Arabia doesn't make him a arson terrorist

does it.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: GUEST,Janie
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 04:22 PM

Just letting you know I'm thinking of you, Amos. Hope you are ready to pull out of there if need be.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 04:26 PM

The military is hpoing to give special help to the 19,000 families that are in the evacuation zone.

Its your call Amos but if your call involves other souls its best to err on the side of caution with good planning.

Subject: BS: California Fires
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 05:55 PM

SAN DIEGO - Wildfires fanned by fierce desert winds consumed huge swaths of bone-dry Southern California on Monday, burning dozens of buildings and threatening hundreds more from Malibu to San Diego, including a jail, a hospital and nursing homes.

More than a dozen wildfires had engulfed the region, killing at least one person, injuring dozens more and forcing hundreds of thousands of evacuations. Overwhelmed firefighters said they lacked the resources to save many houses.

"We have more houses burning than we have people and engine companies to fight them," San Diego Fire Captain Lisa Blake said. "A lot of people are going to lose their homes today."

Nearly 250,000 people were forced to flee in San Diego County alone, where hundreds of patients were being moved by school bus and ambulance from a hospital and nursing homes, sheriff's spokeswoman Susan Knauss said...

The fires have burned about 100,000 acres, or 156 square miles, in San Diego County, said county Supervisor Ron Roberts. Across the region, 40,000 acres, or 62 square miles, had burned by Sunday.

"This is a major emergency," Roberts said.

In many cases, crews couldn't begin to fight the fires because they were too busy rescuing residents who refused to leave, fire officials said.

"They didn't evacuate at all, or delayed until it was too late," Metcalf said. "And those folks who are making those decisions are actually stripping fire resources."...

The fires were being fueled by stronger than usual Santa Ana winds roaring out of the region's canyons, scientists said Monday. The powerful, dry winds typically blow between October and February and peak in December.

Typically, Santa Ana conditions last about a day, but the ones that flared up over the weekend were expected to last through Tuesday.

"For it to be this strong for so many days is unusual," said Stuart Seto, a weather specialist with the National Weather Service in Oxnard.

-snip-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071022/ap_on_re_us/california_wildfires


**

My prayers are with those in that area-those who are evacuating and those who are helping others and fighting these fires.

May they be safe.

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:02 PM

Here's a California Wildfires Mothership - Liveblog
by Miss Blue
Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 09:45:13 AM PDT

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/22/121255/53

Here's a clip of that diary:

"The California wildfires are still burning out of control. Zero containment, with fierce Santa Anna winds as of 11:30am CST.

Please use this diary as your go-to resource for emergency info. We have many Kossacks in CA and in the fire zones providing invaluable information, which can be accessed through these Wildfire diaries...

To volunteer to help: 858-306-1266

If you have animals or livestock that you cannot evacuate yourself or that need to be rescued, call [phone] and press Š1‰ for emergency services.

If you have a stable or other areas that are safe and can house a number of large animals and livestock that need to be evacuated, please call the San Diego Humane Society at [phone]. SDHS is also in need of portable livestock panels for temporary corrals. If you have these available for use, please call [phone].

KLSD - 1360 am radio.

-snip-

Are there Mudcatters who live in this area? If so, if they are able, I hope they'll check in to let us know that they and their loved ones {including their pets} are okay.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:02 PM

I sent a long post which hit a down-spot and failed. Basically the county is in pretty dire straits. So far they are not impinging on our region and the winds around here are running NW, away from us.

We are ready to pull out if the occasion is forced n us.

Scripps/Poway area is under evacuation. South of State 78 is still clear. We're well south of there.

Qualcomm Stadium has been pressed into service as a evac center; Del Mar Fairgrounds is already full, including all their stables, filled with evacuated horses.

250,000 residents around the county are evacuating or already evacuated.

Hundreds of homes have gone up in flames in the path of the major fires.

So far, so good. We all have our fingers crossed.

A

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:04 PM

Az:

See the contemperaneous thread on San Diego Wildfires.

As for other Catters, I have not heard from Banjoest and am not sure where he is located.

A

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:04 PM

Sorry, I just noticed that there is already a current thread about the San Diego fires.

Would a moderator please combine my first two comments with that other thread?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:07 PM

We've had the car loaded with tools, tents and sleepingbags since last night. There are two large areas between us and the fires -- one being the Miramar AFB, and the other being Mira Mesa which is a great lot of concrete, which will slow down any encroachment.

There are 75 engine companies deployed from San Diego County, and a thousand trucks on their way from other regions and states.

The Governator just held a press conference relaying offers of help from President Bush, Diane Feinstein and a lot of other good will, but I have heard no substantive statements other than the above. I would expect to see B-17s overhead with huge loads of foam and retardant, but the wind power in the fire areas is awesome.

800 National Guards are being pulled off border patrols to help evac and vicitims. The professionals are stunned at how fast the north end of the County is being swept with flame.

Fallbrook is being evacuated.

So far all sites of danger are still ten miles away and not coming in our direction.

Donuel, I always lean in the side of caution. Right now, the position at home is safe.

The winds may not die before the end of Wednesday, and the north county westward blown fires may not stop until they reach the Pacific.

They have reported 5% containment on the southern Harris fire.

Precious little given the time, an indicator of how voracious these conditions of dry atmosphere, high winds and high temps are.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Janie
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:34 PM

And thoughts and prayers from all over Mudville that the occasion will NOT be forced upon you.

I'm also watching the Malibu fire.   I have friends who live up Topanga Canyon Rd., right outside of Pacific Palisades, and close family who live up a short, dead-in canyon whose property ajoins Will Rogers State Park (your Governator lived across the street from them before he was governated.) Will Rogers abutts Topanga Canyon Park. Nothing but dense, dry brush for acres and acres all around them. They are about 15 miles from Malibu and less than 5 miles from Topanga Canyon. The Malibu fire is moving in their direction.

They are not in harm's way at present, but are readying themselves, just in case.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:40 PM

My prayers are with all affected folks in San Diego Cty who are suffering because of the those fires. Too, I feel bad for the residents and wildlife in the hills and mountains of Los Angeles and San Bernardino. Be safe, all.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:40 PM

THey need to. A leap in the wrong direction could accelerate the situation very rapidly.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:42 PM

Gosh me old Santee, hope things get better for you and your neighbours. Thinking of you, here in Scotland.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Goose Gander
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:45 PM

Very smoky and hot around where I live . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:53 PM

Where are you, Michael?


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:54 PM

Ta, Giok. Peace has promised to send a Canadian warship down to pull us out of here if the occasion warrants.


A

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 07:03 PM

Sorry, Amos.

I didn't mean to step on your thread.

Shouldn't this thread be closed and combined with yours?

I hope you and Michael Morris, and Banjoest are safe.

Shucks, I hope that everybody is safe.

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 07:04 PM

Astro drove over to LA today for the week -- he's down in the Long Beach area and no fires there, but high winds and lots of smoke and stuff in the air as he was coming across, from the fires north and east.

We've got high winds in Tucson, but no fires, thank goodness. We are ripe for them, though since we had an unusually wet summer here in the desert. It's cool here; astro says it's hot over there from the Santa Ana winds.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: open mike
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 07:14 PM

wow! i hope you stay safe, Amos, and do keep us posted if you can. I
think Butte County has sent some resources toward the south. There seem
to be multiple fires raging in the area at this time. these sites are supposed to have info...not working for me right now..
http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/incidents/incidents_current
www.fs.fed.us/r5/fire/
http://inciweb.org/state/5/

If you need a place to take refuge, there is elbow room here!

Laurel

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 07:36 PM

Thanks so much, Laurel! We may have some landing places nearer by -- one friend on Coronado has invited us in. I doubt any wiuld fire will jump across the bay. But greatly appreciated, anyway!



A

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Goose Gander
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:04 PM

In Southern California, but I'm safe - far from fire areas. Thanks for your concern.

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: astro
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:18 PM

Well, was supposed to observe tonight with my classes, but it's too smoky. The air is bad here. It was extremely windy and gusty coming in today. Bad dust storms.


Astro in Cypress.....

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: annamill
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:19 PM

Amos, you ok? Glenn had to go work up at Barona tonight to relieve
Security that have been up there since yesterday. Right on Wildcat Canyon Rd! I'm a little worried for him up there. I'm right on Mission Bay, out of danger for now. How about you, Amos?

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:23 PM

I think we're going to pull through. There have been no offical announcements of containment, but the number of air drops has gone up dramatically from both rotary and fixed-wing, and there are TV scenarios of parts of the northern fire being beaten back. The air drops will stop any minute now, as it is sundown, but the ground forces will be on the attack all through the night. If the winds settle a little we have a fighting chance of beating this thing within 36 hours, is my personal guess.

Meanwhile, down south, the Chula Vista city area is being threatened but is still under "Voluntary Evacuation" alert.

QualComm stadium is full of people helping each other, settling in, getting cots and blankets, or showing up with donations. The morale there seems high in spite of the extreme stress of dislocation.

Although the Miramar AFB command has announced they are relocating their aircraft as a precaution, I haven't seen further encroachment since Scripps Ranch was put on evac notice a few hours ago.

Fingers crossed and the good Lawd willin', we'll have daylight come sunrise.

A

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:28 PM

I'm peachy, Annamill!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:28 PM

I started rhis thread thread.cfm?threadid=105712&messages=8 on the California fires before seeing this one.

I'm sorry about that.

I've asked for that thread to be combined with this one. But some people are still posting to that thread. I'm not sure that we need both current threads, but if the moderators don't want to combine them, so be it.

That thread has a link to this live blog on the San Diego fires:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/22/16056/919

Just in case people here need that information, here's a repost of what I had quoted from that dailykos blog:

Here's a California Wildfires Mothership - Liveblog
by Miss Blue
Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 09:45:13 AM PDT

"The California wildfires are still burning out of control. Zero containment, with fierce Santa Anna winds as of 11:30am CST.

Please use this diary as your go-to resource for emergency info. We have many Kossacks in CA and in the fire zones providing invaluable information, which can be accessed through these Wildfire diaries...

To volunteer to help: 858-306-1266

If you have animals or livestock that you cannot evacuate yourself or that need to be rescued, call [phone] and press Š1‰ for emergency services.

If you have a stable or other areas that are safe and can house a number of large animals and livestock that need to be evacuated, please call the San Diego Humane Society at [phone]. SDHS is also in need of portable livestock panels for temporary corrals. If you have these available for use, please call [phone].

KLSD - 1360 am radio.

-snip-

Please be safe, everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:32 PM

I hope you and your neighbors make out okay, Amos. Hell of a scary situation. I'll check in tomorrow and see how you're doing down there.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: annamill
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:32 PM

I hope all goes well for you, Amos! Sa I said in other thread, Glenn is up there working to relieve other Security Guards. I'm a little worried for him, but I think he'll be ok. I'm on Mission Bay, safe. If you need a place to run to, please let me know. Just IM me.

Good wishes to us all here in Paradise.

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:44 PM

A poster on that blog I mentioned indicates that this radio station is providing the best live coverage of the fires:

http://www.knx1070.com/

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 10:07 PM

KPBS has been doing a good full ime coverage too.


A

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 10:16 PM

Here's a Google map of the fires -- the news is that the fire in Orange County (south end of LA) is arson. Crazy.

click

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 10:56 PM

I keep seeing the fires on CNN-

Amos, take care of yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Janie
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 10:58 PM

I can't help but think of long avenues lined with exploding Eucalyptus trees.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:10 AM

Go jump in, gg.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:00 AM

Seems there should be a punchline about exploding (koala) bears.

Amos, how is the air quality in your area, even if the flames seem to be keeping their distance?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:39 AM

It has vared from smelly and dusty when the wind is in the wrong direction, to blue-skies clear and light breezes in the right direction.

The heavy pall of smoke you see from the satellite image are to the north of us.

Military aircraft should be starting drops of H20 and retardant this morning, to reinforce efforts of local forces that were deployed until dark last night.

The evacuations are being very well managed and so far spirits are high.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:41 AM

It doesn't sound like things improved overnight. In reading the most recent Google News listing, Forbes has the following sentence:

"One person has been killed, more than 20 people injured and around 260,000 acres have been destroyed in the fires, which are some of the worst in the state's history."

I think they should more acurately say the 260,000 acres have burned or blackened, they haven't been destroyed, because the land is still there. The stuff on the land has been burned and it if was real property it was destroyed. But once the fires are over it's a pretty remarkable process how the land can quickly heal from a fire, depending on the grade, amount of damage, etc. It's one of the things that made work as a fire fighter and timber crew employee in the Forest Service so interesting, to go to places burned last year, the year before that, several years previous (intentionally or wildfire) and see how the plants and animals return. Whether I fought the fire on that land or not, the evolution of returning life is fascinating.

This is a note to file in the back of your head for long after the chaos and pathos of today's fires have passed.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 11:36 AM

We've seen this first-hand after the Cedar fires.

The big fuel is bone-dry brush, which is not kept down by controlled burns in the wetter seasons. This may be re-thought now. Protesting about carbon emissions from controlled burns gets ridiculous when you look at the satellite images of the huge smoke plumes pouring west out over the Pacific from this county from end to end.

We are keeping our fingers crossed about the winds.

Here's the area map. Zoom in a little and you'll see La Jolla, a bump on the coast just north of the city of San Diego.

We are in the NE corner of the intersection of I5 and SR 52, just east of La Jolla.

So far, so good.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:34 PM

The whole thing is so scary & tragic. I am glad you are ok, Amos, but this is going to affect the whole area for years...just in the problems of relocating people and deciding what & where to rebuild.

So little to say...I guess I'll just watch and hope it dies down SOON!

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:01 PM

This is one piece of advice which should be promulgated to all concerned citizens in the US and UK:

"SDGE important notice to evacuees: Do not turn gas off when you vacate".

Just remember that the next time you vacate.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:14 PM

Local updates:

The Harris Fire is 70, 000 acres and 5% contained. Firefighters are looking for full control of this fire on November 4th.

250 residences have been damaged and 200 have been destroyed. 5 firefighters and 20 civilians have been burned and there was 1 civilian fatality. Currently we have 65 Engines, 9 fire crews, 2 dozers, 5 water tenders, 3 airtankers, 2 helicopters, 2 helitankers, (500 firefighters).

Areas threatened: regional communications site on San Miguel Mountain. Power grid and sub station, Water treatment plant, Chula Vista, San Diego, Potrero, Barrett Junction, Barrett Lake area, Engineer Springs, Dulzura, Deerhorn Valley, Lawson Valley, Jamul, Lyons Valley area and Otay Mountain.

The fire burned 50+ homes in Deerhorn Valley Fire and Honey Springs. Fire moved rapidly to the west/southwest to Chula Vista and Otay Lake and north to the south end of Barrett Lake. Firefighters are engaged in protecting a critical Power Grid sub-station and a water treatment plant.



The Witch Fire is 164,000 acres and 1 percent contained. There have been 7 injuries to firefighters and to 2 civilians. Communities Threatened: San Diego, Poway, Ramona, Escondido, Lakeside, Valley Center, San Marcos, Rancho Santa Fe, Rincon, Wildcat Canyon.

Currently there are 218 engines, 17 dozers, 14 fire crews, 17 water tenders (1492 firefighters). 500 residences destroyed - 250 damaged, 100 commercial properties destroyed – 75 damaged, 50 outbuildings destroyed – 50 damaged.

The Rice Fire is 6,100 acres and 0% contained, firefighters are looking for full containment on November 1st. 500 residences have been destroyed and 30 have been damaged. 1 Firefighter has been injured.

Currently there are 55 engines, 6 fire crews, 1 dozer (170 firefighters). Fire is making major runs toward Fallbrook, and may burn in to Santa Margarita and Sandia Creek drainages.

It is anticipated this fire will combine up with Rosa fire which started in Riverside.

The Poomacha Fire is 1,000 acres and 0% contained. This fire is located at Highway 76 and Pauma Valley (Thomas Brother Map Page 409 E7).

The fire originated in a structure and spread into the vegetation. There has been 8 injuries to firefighters.

There are 15 engines, 2 water tenders (60 firefighters). The fire started on the La Jolla Indian Reservation. The fire has spread into Valley Center and Yellow Brick Road areas. Law Enforcement has started the reverse 911 to initiate evacuations of entire Hwy 76 corridor.


The McCoy Fire is a U.S. Forest Service fire and is 300 acres and 50% contained, full containment is expected on the 23rd. 1 structure has been destroyed and there have been no reported injuries."

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:30 PM

NPR this morning was saying that 250,000 people have been evacuated, and that there was virtually no containment.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:33 PM

The European Space Agency has provided these images of the region from way up above.

How's that for carbon emissions, Arnie?


A

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:39 PM

Here's the latest LA Times map of fire areas and their impact: click.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Metchosin
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:55 PM

Just heard on the news that BC is sending down our large Mars water bombers. Might as well, they serve no useful purpose here in the wet, although I would have thought that they might have gone down, way before now. I really hope they will be of substantial use Amos. All the best.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:59 PM

Mars water bomber.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 02:15 PM

That's good news, Met, and thnaks for the image, Peace. We need all the air support we can get, even today. They're still closing roads and ordering new evacs as they fight to keep the fires from spreading west, both at the north end of the county and down south along the latitude of Chula Vista.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 02:20 PM

The reports are 5% containment for the southern Harris Ranch fire, 1% containment for the northern Witch Creek fire. Encroachment westward continues, but it is slow.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: gnu
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 02:21 PM

Hope all continues well for you Amos. Stay safe, buddy.

Any news from Bald Eagle? Is he flying the fires? Or roasting sausages? (Hey, stiff upper Brit lip, right?)

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 02:23 PM

Gusts up to 30 mph are reported north of Del Mar along SR 56, maybe 7 miles E. of Del Mar, with sporadic flareups...

Retardant drops are acting successfuly to slow things where they can be deployed.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 02:29 PM

HE's in Orange County, north of the danger zones from here, and well south of the Malibu problem area.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 02:33 PM

ANother satellite image from NASA satellite showing the plume of fire and smoke and dust flying out to sea along the SSoCal and Baja coastlines.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 02:37 PM

There are fifteen to twenty thousand people beig housed in the large QualComm stadium; they are treating ill and elderly on-site, feeding and bedding people from all over the county with excellent help, supplies pouring in from donors all over the state.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Metchosin
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 02:44 PM

Thanks for the link Peace. I have a soft spot in my heart for those old behemoths. The pic doesn't quite acknowledge the flying boat's massive size. They are awesome to watch in action. Also, the father of one of my dear friends was killed while working as a spotter pilot on one of their runs near here, when I was younger. Guiding them through the smoke in the mountains for a drop can be very risky business.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 03:34 PM

Thanks for the continued updates, Amos. The son and family of a close friend have been evacuated from Ramona. I hear they're safe but I don't know where.

Presumably when the maps show the perimeter of the fire (I'm looking mainly at the Witch fire, obviously) not everything within that perimeter has necessarily been destroyed?

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:20 PM

As of about 7:30 this morning my daughter and her family have been mandatorily evacuated. They have taken their two dogs and one cat plus a friend's three dogs and a cat to my daughter's in laws where there are as yet no fires in the vicinity.

In north Escondido, apparently a housefire set fire to the vegetation and it is advancing rapidly.

Kelly said that the air quality in Trabuco Canyon where they are at the moment is fine. At home it had gotten thick.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:24 PM

Not everything. Those who evacuated are probably at QualComm stadium on Friar's Road, just north of I-8 in Mission Valley, unless they made other arrangements with friends.

The scope of actual destruction is entirely unpredictable. It is perfectly common to find a house touched by nothing buit a few smoke stains when every building for four blocks in every direction has been reduced to embers and ash.

A few gains have recently been made, allowng some Poway area residents to return to their homesites, and re-opening the Highway 94 traffic flow. I-15 is now open running north and south. But there is still a county-wide battle going on.

A

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:29 PM

Where's old "heck of a job" Brownie when you need him?

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Maryrrf
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:54 PM

I have been following this in the news - these fires sound horrible! Be safe, Amos!

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:57 PM

He's sleeping it off on a cot down at the Rocicrucian Community Home for Elderly Incompetents, recently opened to the community as an evacuation center.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 05:13 PM

...and at the same time, New Orleans is getting 12-14 inches of rain. I'll bet they'd loan you some.

Old proverb: "Whatever hits the fan is never distributed equally."

Ebbie...best wishes for the safety of YOUR family....and all folks affected.

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: kendall
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 05:15 PM

It is 60 years today that my little community was nearly wiped out by a huge forest fire.
This is my account of that near tragedy.

The Great Fire of 1947

I was born and raised in a place where nothing exciting ever happens, the Kennebec district of Machias, Maine.

I was 13 at the time and it seemed that the whole world was on fire. Of course, the whole world consisted of Washington County and a bit west of Ellsworth. It was October 23, 1947. The old folks were in a panic because the fires were advancing east on a strong breeze. Being a typical numb 13 year old I thought it was exciting, having no concept of what it would be like to be burned out and homeless. Our house was over 100 years old and it would always be there.

The only transportation available to us was an old Buick that my older brother had left there while he was off somewhere. It was fall and the radiator had been drained. We didn't know that so we all piled into it and headed for town to the home of one of Mother's relatives. I'm surprised that the car made it as far as it did with an empty radiator but, about 2 miles from home, she overheated and quit.

There we were, stranded, with a forest fire coming right at us. I can't speak for anyone else but, about that time my excitement turned to concern and, just as it turned into a panic, a neighbor, also fleeing the flames, stopped and gave us a ride into Machias.

Sometime in the night the wind changed and, although the fire took a neighbor's house a quarter of a mile away, our old house was spared without mark. In later years, after we had moved on, the old house burned down. One careless smoker and a cigarette did what the forest fire failed to do.

Another neighbor, an uncle, claimed he diverted the fire by holding up a picture of his wife but I'm more inclined to think that it was the result of my Mother's praying that turned the fire. surely she must have had the ear of the almighty to be able to raise a gang of kids such as hers without any of us being imprisoned or hanged.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 05:31 PM

Thanks, Bill, and to the others who have PMed me. My daughter's morale is high and she is somewhat fatalistic in a good sense. She and her husband are aware that they have done everything they could and taken everything with them that is vitally important to them. The fate of the rest, she said, is "all right".

They were offered refuge in the homes of various friends but none of the homes were that distant and the one thing my son in law said is that he doesn't want to be evacuated more than once. Where they are now is several hours away.

One thing about southern Californians- they are a tough breed and have often had to stare down disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 05:39 PM

Indeed, one of the most salient aspects of this great social experiment is how upbeat and cooperative everyone is being in the face of disaster. These are people who may well be fighting for a parking place or cutting each other off in traffic in normal times; but under the larger threat they are rising to the occasion with the best of human spirit.

A

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 05:43 PM

Thirteen kids and a stalled Buick can bring out the supernatural powers in anyone, I expect. Glad you made it through, Skipper!


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 07:05 PM

The effort to house, feed and clothe thousands of evacuees is going well. Kudos to all concerned. The bitter lessons learned during and after Katrina were not lost on the President, the Governor or FEMA.

Stay safe, Amos et al. You and your pets are the only things that can't be replaced.

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 07:36 PM

"The only transportation available to us was an old Buick that my older brother had left there while he was off somewhere. It was fall and the radiator had been drained."


             I was working in a gas station in Arizona one time--don't ask--and this guy pulled in with an old Straight-Eight Buick, and it was so hot the rubber had melted off the spark plug leads. There was nothing but bare wires sticking out fused to the spark plugs, but it was still running.


                  "...an uncle, claimed he diverted the fire by holding up a picture of his wife..."


                I'm betting on the uncle.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 08:08 PM

Ye gods. My daughter just called- there is now a fire nearing her in laws' home. They can see the flames. The word is that it is arson.

I'm not a believer in capital punishment - but I would applaud corporal punishment. :)

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Dave Swan
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 08:35 PM

I've just sent a crew from my station in the Bay Area to San Bernardino County, about an eight hour drive. They'll likely be assigned structure protection which will be a tough detail, given the way things look on the news.

At present it looks as though it'll be a seven day assignment before my guys get relieved.

All best wishes for the safety of everybody down there.

D

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 08:37 PM

Good one, Dave. Wish the crew a safe trip and safe time there from us in the north.

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:07 PM

? is that great zoo in any danger? I remember when Prague flooded and they had to leave the animals to drown...

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:16 PM

And from Idaho. We've had our share of fire this past Summer....

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:31 PM

Thanks, Cap'n Swann. The region owes you one.


A

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:34 PM

No danger to the area in which the Zoo lies, which is just above the downtown of San Diego city proper. So far all the danger presented by fire has been pretty far south of there and pretty far north of there. We have ot keep licking it so it doesn't hit a mjor wind change and double cross us somehow. If it got into Balboa Park, rich with dry Eucalyptus and wooded slopes and canyons, it would become a walking hell. Ever hear the cry of a burning gorilla? Me neither. And I have no wish to start now.

A

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:38 PM

Has there been any media reports on how people who don't have cars have been evacuated out of these areas?

Hopefully, that has been handled much better than it was in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina.

??

But then again, it doesn't take much to be an improvement on the handling of evacuations prior to and during Katrina.

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:48 PM

Most evacs are strated with calls called "Reverse 911" -- robomessaging. They are followed up by sheriffs, police or National Guard knocking on doors and helping anyone out who needs it. For the rest, neighbors are helping each other out.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:54 PM

Ah, the four seasons in California, fire, drought, flood, and mud slide.

Stay safe, all of you.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 12:51 AM

Earlier I mentioned Trabuco Canyon as being where my daughter's in laws live, and by extension from where they are within sight of a fire right now. I may be mistaken about the location.

I know that at one point the in laws lived at Trabuco but that may have been before they built their new house. I don't think I know where they live now.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 08:30 AM

? I thought I read a day or so ago that the animals are being evaced?

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 09:12 AM

Amos, is there any definitive or near-definitive word on the cause of the fires? I've hear arson brunted about, but I'm sure that Rumor is running wild in the streets. To read the AP wire stories you'd think the winds themselves sparked the blaze instead of spreading it.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 09:20 AM

Talk about yer mixed metaphors:

"The shift [of wind direction] could allow for a greater aerial assault and help firefighters beat back the most destructive blazes, said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff during a tour of an evacuation center at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego.

"If the weather cooperates, maybe we can turn the tide," he said.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 09:25 AM

Keeping everything crossed for you , Amos.

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 09:26 AM

Michael "Canute" Chertoff....

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Dave Swan
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 09:58 AM

My guys were assigned to the Witch Fire at about 0430 today. Here's a link to the Cal Fire (still known to most of us as CDF) website. It's pretty good information about what's burning where, usually updates at 12 hour intervals or so, depending on availability of reports and staff time.

D

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:03 AM

From Dave's link:

"Witch Fire
Witch Creek Area East of Ramona
San Diego County

This fire has burned 196,420 acres and is one percent contained. 500 homes, 100 commercial properties, and 50 outbuildings have been destroyed. 250 homes, 75 commercial properties and 50 outbuildings have been damaged. 5,000 residences, 1,500 commercial properties, and 300 outbuildings are currently threatened. Mandatory evacuations are in place for the communities of Scripps Ranch, Poway, Rancho Bernardo, Valley Center, San Marcos, and Rancho Santa Fe. Twelve firefighters have been injured on this fire. A CAL FIRE Incident Command Team is in command of this incident with 1,492 firefighters assigned. Wildcat Canyon is closed. Highway 67 is closed from Poway to Ramona. Witch Fire Information Line [phone]."

I hope the water bombers and winds give the guys and gals some breaks.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:35 AM

Thanks for the link, Dave. I have family in La Mesa and El Cajon. Safe so far, but things change so very quickly. One family is literally across the street from a large undeveloped park area. These Google maps are such an improvement on the news on used to be able to get, even a few years ago, about fires. It must certainly take some of the strain off of the phone systems for people to look it up themselves. I bet the cell towers are being worked as hard as they've ever worked, though.

You never completely "get over" the years you spend fighting fires. The adrenalin starts up a little and I swear I can smell the grass and other vegetation burning with some of the images coming out of there. We're just getting into grass fire danger here in North Texas (we've had lots of rain this year, so when the lush grass dries there is a lot to burn, and it goes up in a hurry).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:49 AM

There actually have been five or six fires including children of the two major ones, Witch Creek in the north and Harris Ranch in the south.

They have not of course had time to do a lot of forensic study. The belief is that high winds knocked down a power line which sparked the southern one. Uncertain as to the northern one. There has been some discussion of arson on various channels, especially as regards a small local fire in San Ysidro.

However, all the discussion is speculative as far as I have heard.

Latest updates: "10:24-07 5:26 a.m. BIRCH HILL EVACUATIONS: Mandatory evacuation Reverse 9-1-1 calls have been sent to 167 residents in Birch Hill near Palomar Mountain . Residents should go to the Temecula Community Recreation Center at 30875 Rancho Vista Road in Temecula

10-24-07 3:51 a.m. DE LUZ EVACUATIONS:   The Sheriff's Department has activated reverse 9-1-1 calls to alert the residents of De Luz of a mandatory evacuation. De Luz is north of Camp Pendleton . Residents are advised to evacuate on De Luz / Murrieta Road north or Sandia Creek Drive north toward Riverside County . "



A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:56 AM

I've never heard of reverse 9-1-1 calls before. Interesting. Makes sense.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:59 AM

Other updates can be found at http://www.sdcountyemergency.com/.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:23 AM

Perspective

1 in every 300 citizens of the United States have been evacuated or displaced by this fire.

questions:

Why leave the gas on when you leave?

Would the National Guard be of any help in CA rather than overseas?

Have clear channel AM radio stations been of great public service?




sad but true:

George W Bush is now on his way to survey the fire.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:30 AM

That'll get things straightened out real soon.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:33 AM

The Lt. Gov of California had nothing but scorn for Bush and the proposed "fly over".

leave the gas on... was that a typo or real advice

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:45 AM

The gas company in Dan Diego has informed its customers that it will attend to gas lines that need to be shut off.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:46 AM

1. "Leave the gas on" is real advice from SDG&E. The reason is that they would rather manage it themselves, since turning the gas back on requires an SDGE person or qualified plumber to do it and there is some issue regarding pressure gradients. I believe they can also manage a whole sub-net at once.

2. The National Guard is being deployed especially in helping with logistics, evac, and some firefighting. Obviously more would be better.

3. Maybe Bush can get caught in an updraft or sompn. But, I have to add, he made an early promise to Arnold to provide all needed help, and we have had tons of supplies provided by the Navy in cots and food for evacuees, plus a number of military water bombers.

4. Radio stations, AM and FM have been constant helpful sources of updates, manning their posts day and night. When KPBS lost their transmitter tower to the fire, another station even leant them bandwidth to keep on broadcasting. The dynamics of mutual help and support shown in this county in response to this catastrophe has been heartwarming.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:49 AM

I'm also curious about that advice that people should leave the gas on if they have to evacuate. I thought the gas in the home was supposed to be turned off. And I confess that I'm not sure how to do that in my home.

Also, does "reverse 9-1-1 calls" mean dialing 1-1-9?

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 12:06 PM

Reverse 911 is a system that was installed county wide afrter the Cedar fires; it enables a robot to dial every phone in its register for a certain area and recite a message. In this case, the message is "Evacuate your home now." It can be tuned to lists by area so it is usually limited to those geographical regions that are at risk.

The "leave the gas on" is contrary to traditional teachings on the subject, but is promulgated as a request by SDG&E. One reason is that to turn it back on, after the danger is passed, requires a trained person. Another, I believe, is that they prefer to turn off whole blocks or areas at once if necessary, so they can control the pressurizarization when they do turn it back on. There may be other technical factors I am not aware of, but that's my best guess.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 12:21 PM

Good guess, Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Dave Swan
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 12:25 PM

Just heard that my boys are assigned and on the line in Poway on the Witch Fire. They'll do their best it keep it from reaching you, Amos.

D

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 12:39 PM

I heard that the general wind speeds is lessening day by day, and that many fires are staying in the ground instead of being flashed thru treetops and throwing embers for a mile. I sure hope so....

Best wishes to Dave's boys and all the rest of the firefighters.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 12:39 PM

Thank you, Sir Swanno. Count on a case of Guinness for your lads when I am next in your area.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: open mike
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 01:41 PM

for those who have propane...LPG...it would still be adviseable to turn off the tank, I believe the problem comes when turning back on, to be sure of all pilot lights being correctly lit...

also we often advise folks to keep the electricity on, esp. if they
have a pump that requires electric to run. we usually try to use the home owner's water to fill our tanks if we are doing structure protection.

today i saw a plea for help evacuationg animals from a sanctuary/barn.
i wonder how they came out...i think this message was from tuesday morn. this was on the freecycle list..

If anyone can go and help Animal Acres evacuate animals from Gentle
Barn or if anyone can take in some animals in their back yards
(temporarily of course) PLEASE call Susie at 661-313-8040. We then
need lots and lots of people to help with the evacuated animals as
they are taken to Animal Acres! We then need lots and lots of people
to help with the evacuated animals as they are taken to Animal
Acres! So please, please, please -- call everybody you know to go
DIRECTLY to ANIMAL ACRES to meet and unload these frightened animals
that will be arriving from Gentle Barn. Iif you don't have a trailer
or a truck, just head to Animal Acres, and await the animals! ANIMAL
ACRES 14 North to Red Rover Mine Rd exit Follow curve, and turn
LEFT onto Ward Rd (one block's distance) Turn LEFT at bottom of Ward
Rd (one block's distance) onto Escondido Canyon Road. PLEASE FORWARD
AND CROSSPOST TO ANYONE WHO CAN HELP IN CALIFORNIA LORRI BAUSTON
(Animal Acres) JUST CALLED BECAUSE GENTLE BARN NEEDS ANOTHER TRAILER
THIS VERY SECOND! The grounds are now on fire and there are 3-4
cows who cannot be evacuated. We need as many trailers and trucks
as possible at Gentle Barn now! The flames are closing in. The
horses are frightened, and Lorri is stating she's not sure all the
animals can be evacuated in time, so PLEASE BRING TRAILERS AND
TRUCKS THERE RIGHT NOW! GENTLE BARN 15825 Sierra Hwy 14 North to
Sand Canyon Road Turn LEFT (west) until it ends (at Sierra Hwy)
Turn RIGHT (north) Go about 1/4 mile. Gentle Barn is on LEFT
Alternate Route: 14 North If anyone can go and help Animal Ccres
evacuate animals from Gentle Barn or if anyone can take in some
animals in their back yards (temporarily of course) PLEASE call
Susie at 661-313-8040. We then need lots and lots of people to help
with the evacuated animals as they are taken to Animal Acres! So
please, please, please -- call everybody you know to go DIRECTLY to
ANIMAL ACRES to meet and unload these frightened animals that will
be arriving from Gentle Barn. Iif you don't have a trailer or a
truck, just head to Animal Acres, and await the animals! ANIMAL
ACRES 14 North to Red Rover Mine Rd exit Follow curve, and turn
LEFT onto Ward Rd (one block's distance) Turn LEFT at bottom of Ward
Rd (one block's distance) onto Escondido Canyon Road See Animal
Acres on LEFT -- first driveway Park out of the way of the incoming
trailers and trucks, and just wait, please. If the 14 is closed
heading up to Animal Acres, find your way north using Sierra Hwy,
Escondido Canyon Road, or however else you can figure out If the 14
is closed heading up to Animal Acres, find your way north using
Sierra Hwy, Escondido Canyon Road, or however else you can figure
out. I'm not there, so cannot tell you accurately of any road
closures, so please understand. Try calling the L.A. County Sheriff'
Dept or the CHP. THANK YOU!

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Dave Swan
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 02:21 PM

The winds are lessening and thought to be turning. Here's where it gets dicey. When the wind is apt to shift quickly it's tough to predict fire behavior, and it's under these conditions that crews get hurt.

D

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 02:46 PM

That turning is what has me worried, as well. It's light breezes only here at work, but up where the vortexes of flame meet the hills, it could be a proper bellows. Fingers crossed.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 03:04 PM

Have they called these folks yet?

Supertanker Team:

Sam White
Vice President of Marketing & Sales
TEL: [phone]
[e-mail]

Supertanker Media Contacts:

Jim Baynes
Supertanker Sales Manager
TEL: [phone]
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 03:33 PM

Laurel, you know I'm in Wyoming, and can't get to CA. What can I do to help with the animals? Anything? Is it too early to send money? (probably is my guess)

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 04:05 PM

Thanks, BB. I am sending this to the CIty Fathers.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 04:10 PM

BRuce:

It does not appear from the website that the Evergreen Supertanker is actually deployed yet.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 04:18 PM

I can't imagine that ANYONE is not aware of the fires, and I assume that they are using all available planes that are safe to use in the various fire areas.

(the news last night said that larger craft were not safe in high winds at low altitudes, and were being held back)

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 04:24 PM

I saw the demo flight pictures a few years back- even if they are not in commercial operations, the publicity from using the test aircraft would be worth their while.


A 747 at 400 feet is impressive even before it dumps 24,000 gallons...

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 06:10 PM

No doubt. If they have a demo model we'd lovve to see it operating. I sent the link to Jerry Sanders, our lovely Mayor.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 06:16 PM

And even when they dump all that water...it still looks like just a few drops when it hits the fire.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 06:17 PM

Water when it turns into steam expands to 1700 times its volume.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Dave Swan
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 07:00 PM

Most drops are meant to paint the area ahead of the fire so as to retard its progress; therefore, they are made on fuel rather than flame.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 07:40 PM

For those who care to follow fires, earthquakes, basic weather...etc...AND have broadband, there is a Windows program that retrieves data from around the world, and for specific locations within the US. I just added San Diego County to my copy, and I can see various updates and maps of San Diego and even fire warnings for the USA in general. It has lots of settings and choices for areas, types of events you wish to monitor and levels.

http://earthalerts.manyjourneys.com/>

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 08:38 PM

I haven't read this thread for a day or so, all I knew was brief radio reports. Thanks to all those who posted links.

And best wishes to those in the fire areas.

Australia is heading into our fire season, but with our smaller population densities, we will never have so many people affected at once.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Áine
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 09:23 PM

Geez, Amos my darlin' -- this situation brings back memories!!

Wish I could send some of the rain that's been washing us away all year . . . but, since that's a logical no-go, I'll keep my fingers crossed and send all kinds of positive energy (non-flammable, of course!) your way.

Hugs to all of yours from all of mine, Áine

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Edain
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:32 PM

I have to say, this brings back memories of the Cedar Fire, only this time I'm safely around the world. From what I hear from others though it seems the co-ordination of the emergence services is better this time. I hope the winds settle for you.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:56 PM

Amos-

Really glad to hear you're doing OK so far. Hope that continues despite the unpredictable nature of the problem.

I heard last night on the radio that part of the reason for the severity of the fire is that the rainy season--October to about March-- just didn't happen at all last year--so everything has been just getting progressively drier for over a year now.   Is that accurate?

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Janie
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 12:12 AM

When my bro-in-law in the Palisades e-mailed last night, he said they predicted the Malibu fire would be under full control by Friday. I see they are ahead of schedule on that one.

I take it you can breath a bit easier for now Amos? (both literally and figuratively.)

If you have a rainy season this year, when does it usually start? On average, how frequently do the Santa Ana winds occur?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 12:28 AM

Does steam do as much good as liquid water? I wouldn't think so because it dissipates so much faster. Asking here, not arguing.

And the fire I was at (not 'on'--Mr was On comm/radio duty) the water was being dumped on the flames. Perhaps ahead of them too, but I didn't actually see that.

I was more interested in the catering folk. Just how they fed that many people on a round the clock schedule, and it was DAMN good food too! NOT MREs or C rations! Every meal was home cooked from scratch and fresh food. Damn, I was impressed! I could expound more but this thread is about FIRE not Food.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: open mike
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 01:54 AM

Here is the latest status update for the Southern California fires from the National Fire Information Center:

Witch (San Diego County): 145,000 acres at zero percent contained. This fire is one mile east of Ramona. Hundreds of homes and commercial building have been damaged or destroyed. Currently, 5,000 residences and 1,500 commercial properties are threatened in San Diego, Poway, Ramona, Escondido, Lakeside, Valley Center, San Marcos, and Rancho Santa Fe. Wildcat Canyon is closed. Highway 67 is closed from Poway to Ramona. For information, call [phone].

Ranch (Angeles National Forest): 54,518 acres at 10 percent contained. This fire is seven miles north of Castaic. Evacuations continue in Chiquito Canyon, Hasley Canyon, Val Verde, Hopper Canyon and toward Filmore. Currently, 500 residences and 50 commercial properties are threatened. Three homes and four outbuildings have been destroyed. For information, call 626-574-5208 or visit the web site: inciweb.org/incident/1002. Buckweed (Los Angeles County): 37,812 acres at 27 percent contained. This fire is 14 miles west of Palmdale. A mandatory evacuation of 15,000 residents remains in effect. More than 55,000 homes in the communities of Santa Clarita, Castaic, Leona Valley, Green Valley, Acton, Agua Dulce, Bouquet Reservoir and Mint Canyon are threatened. For information, call [phone].

Harris (San Diego County): 70,000 acres at five percent contained. This fire is two miles southeast of Potrero. At least 200 homes have been destroyed in this fire - more than 50 were in Deerhorn Valley and Honey Springs. Citizens are sheltered at Fire Station 66. Two thousand homes and 500 commercial properties are threatened. More than 3,000 people have been evacuated in the area of Harris Ranch Road and Otay Lake Road. For information, call [phone].

Santiago (Orange County): 7,865 acres at 30 percent contained. This fire is 12 miles east of Santa Ana. Highway 241 is closed from Santiago Canyon to Highway 133. Portola Parkway and portions of Jamboree Road in Irvine are closed. 3,500 homes and 150 commercial properties are threatened in the communities of Foothill Ranch, Lake Forest, Modjeska, and Silverado Canyon. For information, call 714-573-6200.

Canyon (Los Angeles County): 3,800 acres at eight percent contained. This fire is two miles north of Malibu. Mandatory evacuations were implemented in the following areas: Monte Nido, Malibu Colony, Malibu Rd., Sweetwater Canyon, Carbon Canyon, Carbon Mesa, Rambla Pacifica, Big Rock, Topanga Canyon, Powder Ranch Rd. and Monte Vista Dr. Currently, 600 residences, 200 commercial buildings, and 100 outbuildings are threatened. Residents from 500 homes have been evacuated. For information, call [phone]. NEW Rice (Los Angles County FD): 6,100 acres at zero percent contained. This fire is seven miles east of Fallbrook. Right now, 2,500 homes are threatened. The town of Fallbrook has been evacuated. Camp Pendleton and Oceanside are threatened. Hundreds of homes and commercial buildings have been damaged or destroyed. For information, call [phone]. NEW Magic (Los Angeles County FD): 1,200 acres at zero percent contained. This fire is three miles west of Santa Clarita. Nine hundred homes are threatened in the Santa Clarita and Simi Valley areas. Transportation and oil infrastructres are threatened. For information, call [phone].

NEW Poomacha (Monte Vista Unit, Cal Fire): 1,000 acres at zero percent contained. This fire is seven miles east of Pauma Valley. Evacuations are in effect along the Highway 76 Corridor. For information, call [phone].

Coronado Hills (San Diego County): 300 acres at zero percent contained. This fire is two miles south of San Marcos. No other information was provided. McCoy (Cleveland National Forest): 300 acres at 50 percent contained. This fire is four miles southwest of Julian. For information, call [phone]. Grass Valley (San Bernardino National Forest): 300 acres at an unknown percent contained. This fire is north of Lake Arrowhead. For information, call 909-383-5688 or visit the web site: inciweb.org/incident/1003/

Roca (Riverside County, California Department of Forestry): This fire was contained at 269 acres.

Sedgewick (Los Padres National Forest): This fire was contained at 710 acres.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 07:43 AM

Ron:

Parts of the county, perhaps. My region had several good doses of rain, but they were short. I am not accustomed to thinking of a rainy season in San Diego, and one reason is that it often falls, as it does in Camelot, at night. There are many microclimates, tending to get more arid as you go east from the ocean.

We typically get between 10 and 12 inches a year, and the heaviest months are traditional January, February and December. Here's a month by month description.

It is cooler here this morning, with the Santa Ana winds having abated, so we are hopeful that major inroads will be made today.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 08:02 AM

Amos, I am following this with breath held. You and all the SoCal 'Catters are in my thoughts and prayers. I used to live out there in the middle of that. Any update on the Chula Vista area fire? Is it in the Sweetwater River valley? Or out by Brown Field? I lived and have friends out there.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 08:04 AM

It's being reported that two of the fires may be arson.

Swanno, I know that you are worried sick for your crew. Hope all is OK.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:31 AM

The Harris fire is the one that swept down along the border region. Chula Vista was put on voluntary evacuation in certain areas, and this constraint was later lifted. But the wilder regions east of the city have been a battle field against raging fire.

---

"The base camps set up around the county to house command posts also include tents with cots where firefighters sleep. Some are staying in hotels. But many are sleeping wherever they can.

After 24 hours of fighting the Harris fire near Deerhorn Valley, Vic Lofton and his crew curled up against the tires of their firetrucks or just sprawled on the ground. For those still awake, the fatigue was evident in their long, unfocused stares.

"We rest when we can," Lofton said. "If you don't sleep, it will catch up to you." Then a call came in.

The crew hauled themselves off the ground and stood, ready to head to another hot spot."

---

The current state of the Harris fire: "6:44 p.m. October 23, 2007:

"The Harris fire started the day heading toward Bonita and Chula Vista on Tuesday, then shifted in the afternoon and advanced toward Rancho San Diego. Mandatory evacuation orders were issued – then lifted – for residents of Bonita's Sunnyside neighborhood and Chula Vista's San Miguel Ranch.

"Evacuations remained in effect for north Jamul, the state Route 67 corridor north of Lakeside, and the area of Rancho San Diego bordered by Del Rio Road, Steele Canyon Road, Fury Lane and Millar Ranch Road. "

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:33 AM

Some of our recent fires are suspected to have been set by arsonists, and no doubt we'll hear more about arsonists when the fire season really gets going.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:43 AM

Amos: how's the electrical power situation?

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:49 AM

I hope that California has some seriously stiff arson laws in place. If it plays out that way (arson), there are deaths involved.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:53 AM

The major transmission line which was downed by the Harris fire and put the county at risk of a major blackout was repaired by SDGE hero crews working frantically; they beat their labor estimate by 50%.

If convicted of arson, a person faces sentence of up to ten years, and in addition he may face murder charges. There have been several collateral deaths, elderly collapsing under the stress of evacuation, and one directly caused by the Harris fire.

At least one of the fires around here is thought to be an arson incident but the evidence won't be sifted carefully until the major firefighting is over.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:58 AM

Thanks for the info, A.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 12:07 PM

I just talked with my son in law. They are still at his parents' (and it is in Trabuco Canyon); they plan to go home tomorrow- because there is a hockey game they want to attend tonight. He said, That sounds silly, I know.

The air quality is still bad but the humidity has shot up dramatically and the winds have died. Their home is still standing as are all the homes in their community (Hidden Meadows in north Escondido).

They are fortunate indeed. For a great many other people, now starts the hard part.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: GUEST,George
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 12:45 PM

Amos: This is for you buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: saulgoldie
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 12:57 PM

My heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to those, especially Mudcatters and their loved ones who are in harm's way in the fire area.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: saulgoldie
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 01:04 PM

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this earlier in the thread (and not to make light of the situation by any stretch of the imagination), but:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/fox-news-al-qaeda-is-causing-the- ca-wildires/

To which I can only add, MRSA is likely an al-qaeda plot. And when it arrives, avian flu will be also. Furthermore, I believe that it was an al-qaeda plot that I got up feeling very sleepy this morning, and that my normal cup of coffee was of no relief.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 01:06 PM

open mike, Amos

Good on you for such accurate needed information.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 01:17 PM

Thanks, George, for the high-velocity flash-back!! And everyone for their kind thoughts.



A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: open mike
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 01:27 PM

One suspected arsonist in this area who had 20 fires attributed to him was caught and while in jail he hung himself...we will never know for sure about the questions he could have answered. Must have been a very troubled soul. 50-60 other fires were being investigated as potentially caused by this same person.

http://www.sacbee.com/288/story/347651.html

http://www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/showthread.php?t=1495

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Greg B
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 01:30 PM

Sorcha, is 'Mr.' a ham radio guy?

When I was active in amateur radio and living in the Silly-cone
Valley, I got called out on fire duty, as comm shadow to the CDF
incident commander. Very interesting duty; hams were the bridge
between incompatible and/or non-functional radio systems. We had
the only stuff that would work everywhere, all the time, between
teams from different jurisdictions.

Got REAL close to some serious fire (actually, a flare-up
crossed a road we were going down). The pictures don't do it
justice, nor the courage of the people who get out in the
middle of that stuff. It's real big and real hot.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 01:54 PM

President gets air and ground tours of damage
Posted @ 10:22 AM
"President Bush touched down at San Pasqual High School in Escondido shortly after 10 a.m. following an aerial tour of the fire danger surrounding Lake Hodges.

Outside the windows of the helicopter convoy, you could see patches of scorched earth below, but you could also see rolling green golfcourses and houses that escaped the damage.

The president's motorcade took him toward neighborhoods where he will tour more damage. A couple dozen people lined the road near the high school with cameras."

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 02:00 PM

2007 Wildfire fatalities update
Posted @ 8:39 AM
"The County of San Diego announces this morning that 10 fire-related deaths of San Diego County residents have occurred during the 2007 Wildfires. This includes three deaths directly related to the fires, three that occurred during evacuation activities and four that happened after the people were evacuated, a county spokeswoman said in a press release.

The most recent fatalities included in these statistics are:
Robert M. Sibbison, an 86-year-old male under hospice care, experienced shortness of breath while being evacuated via ambulance on the morning of Oct. 24. He died at Grossmont Hospital.

Priscilla Frias, a twenty-year-old female who had serious medical problems, evacuated with her family to Tijuana when she had difficulty breathing. Her family transported her to San Diego for medical attention when her breathing condition worsened. She was transported to Scripps Mercy Hospital-Chula Vista during the early morning hours of Oct. 24 and pronounced dead.

Two sets of unidentified charred remains were found in the rubble of a destroyed house on Highland Valley Road in unincorporated Poway during the evening hours of Oct. 24. (Cause of death is pending, the spokeswoman said.)"

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 02:02 PM

If the fires were deliberately set, I hope the people who did it face life--real life--in jail.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 02:04 PM

Several photo galleries of the various scenes in SoCal over the last few days.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: gnu
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 02:13 PM

Ya know. That there jet water bomber must be a hoot to be in. I have been close to three forest fires, and, at one....

Once, in Labrador, we were headed for work and got pulled over at an RCMP roadblock. A very large RCMP (even the small ones look large when you get pulled over) asked, "Do any of you have any health problems which would stop you from helping fight a forest fire?" I was driving and replied, "Well, I would be scared shitless." Said officer was not amused and said, rather sternly and while looking me straight in the eyes with a glaring stare, "If so, you must explain in writing what they are on this form (duly produced) and sign it. You will be checked out and prosecution may result from any false statements. Everyone else on the bus immediately."

Well, I did get one the bus, but, I WAS scared shitless. As luck would have it, by the time we got to the fire, it was raining and the fire was under control. I won't go into a long explanation, but, my electrical inspector, a Navy vet, got me and himself on a Canso water bomber for the last bit of the fire. When that Canso opened up and the water dropped, I nearly dropped water. I can't imagine being in one of those jet water bombers when it takes a leak!

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:36 PM

MAyor Sanders has announced that QualComm Stadium will stand down from service as an evac center tomorrow at noon -- a sure sign the worst is over. More deaths have been found among the ashes -- about six people. President Bush dropped by and shook hands with a slough of weary dfire fighters and mouthed all the right mouth music. After San Diego had self organized to such a high degree of success he is now offering a 1-900 FEMA number, which I am sure will work like gangbusters. Nothing like a few layers of wooden-headed bureaucracy between those who need help and the help they need.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 10:33 PM

Good news to hear, A.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 26 Oct 07 - 01:42 AM

thanks for the photo link - & it's good to read things are getting better (fingers crossed, especially where bureaucracy is concerned)

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: GUEST,George
Date: 26 Oct 07 - 09:10 AM

You are welcome Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Nov 07 - 11:22 PM

Hey, that was really good!

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Susan A-R
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:38 PM

I've been off at my sister's with very sporadic internet, but have been thinking of you Amos, and Dave Swan and your fire fighters. Things sounded pretty terrifying.

I live in the land of the asbestos forest, so the most we see is smoke out of Canada now and then. I clench just seeing television footage.

Be well guys.

Susan

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 08:20 PM

I've seen video of 2 water bombers that snapped off their wing/s by climbing too rapidly under a full load.

The Richard Drefus movie about smoke pilots was good.

IT is a most dangerous and heroic occupation.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 09:26 PM

Ye gods. What happened to the two water bombers? Any fatalities?

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 05:22 PM

The two bombers in question dropped like unguided missiles, as you might imagine. Film shot of one of them was in Colorado, I believe, some time ago.

Having worked on forest fires crews for two years as a young man, and having lived through three major santa ana wind-driven fires (1970, 2003 and 2007), I am glad to now live near the ocean. We are recovering slowly, but it will take 2-3 years, minimum, for all the rebuilding. Even after the people are helped, some of the back country will never be the same - habitats destroyed, animal populations displaced or killed, old oaks gone, etc. Sad, and all too preventable.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: gnu
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 05:50 PM

"... all too preventable." ?? How so?

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 09:45 PM

One way is by enforcing the 100-yard clearing around homes, which though on the books is not enforced.

Another is by doing controlled maintenance burns to reduce the tinder. It is much more affordable than letting it stack up until another wildfire comes through and uses it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 09:53 PM

To TJ...no, the back country will never be 'the same' but fire is one of Mother's tools...and the back country WILL recover. It just takes more time than humans want to wait.

Mother has a REASON for fire. Called rejuvination, but She didn't figure on arson either. Or little boys playing with matches.