Folk in Pubs after the Ban

Subject: RE: Folk in Pubs after the Ban
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 03:41 PM

"Our social club has a big telly, cheap beer, etc, and our bar takings are seriously down. The smaller pubs in our locality are also struggling because the smoking ban has affected their established community."

But in this context are some pubs encouraging folk clubs because they bring in people who drink beer?

Subject: RE: Folk in Pubs after the Ban
From: Whistlepenny
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 02:54 PM

Don't forget that the primary purpose of the ban was to remove the likelihood of employees suing their employers for damages if they contracted health problems due to passive smoking in the workplace.

I have observed bars nearly empty while everyone's puffing away outside under a parasol. This can be good for a quiet session (particularly for some singers) but it's disruptive when musicians keep nipping out for a quick drag.

I guess it will all sort itself out in the end. I just wish they'd ban crisps in folk clubs.

Claire

Subject: RE: Folk in Pubs after the Ban
From: GUEST,Wayne
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 12:54 PM

The two sessions I'm involved with have kept going without losing performers but every fifth song or so half of the room disappears for a smoke, leaving the next couple of performers playing to a significantly quieter room. Also, the result of 10 or 12 smokers returning together means that the singing space can seem smoky anyway!

Also, the casual listeners we used to get seem to have stopped coming which is a shame, because in the past many have got hooked and even started singing themselves.

It'll be interesting, as winter progresses to see whether people will still turn up if they have to risk frostbite every half an hour.

Subject: RE: Folk in Pubs after the Ban
From: henryclem
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 12:42 PM

One aspect of the ban is potentially very damaging to folk clubs - especially when the weather is warmer. Club rooms, nicely secluded "round the back" may well experience a lot more noise from the garden, courtyard etc. Windows and doors closed instead of open could make life pretty uncomfortable.

There was an assumption that once the ban was introduced, smokers would go outside for a ciggy much as they probably have been doing at work and then come back inside again for the general social interaction. However this is not what is happening. Smokers and non-smokers were not necessarily segregated before, so the mixed groups (friends, families etc)who continue to enjoy each other's company now do so outside for prolonged periods (or even all night, if there are heaters and reasonable shelter). I know some bars which are completely empty for large parts of the evening because literally everyone, smoker or not, is staying outside. Curiously, in view of the supposed purpose of the ban, this exposes people to much greater
risk from passive smoking because they remain longer in a more confined space with a lot more smokers - and without the benefit of air exchange systems ...

And they can make a lot of din. As I see it the ban was largely based on some pretty dodgy research which implied that if pubs, clubs etc were non-smoking vast numbers, previously excluded, would flock to them. That simply ain't happening - non-smokers who went to pubs before now find them more pleasant, naturally; smokers don't, so the big indoor occasions are less popular than before.

Our social club has a big telly, cheap beer, etc, and our bar takings are seriously down. The smaller pubs in our locality are also struggling because the smoking ban has affected their established community. Some of them have spent lavishly on outdoor facilities.
They won't have money to spend inside when it's needed. And how green is heating the outdoors ?

Sorry - went on a bit! I just feel that some friendly pubs are becoming less so (smokers exiled to the garden getting louder and more aggressive as the winter sets in) and the advantage of secluded rooms upstairs, at the back, may increasingly be lost to the change in habits of the general pub clientele.

Henry

Subject: RE: Folk in Pubs after the Ban
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 10:46 AM

Observations:

In one session I go to, most non playing customers used the other bar. I don't know what that bars is doing now but the ban does not seem to have affected one or two drifting in to the music room.

In terms of non-playing customers, the other has been quieter on the weeks I've been there. As long as the pub feels it is getting enough custom (and I think it is), I view this as a good thing as noise levels were high in there.

In terms of players at these sessions, there have been no changes. Noone has either stopped playing or started coming as a result of the ban. Except...

I've stopped going to the local folk club as a result of the ban (in terms of stress I feel vs what I get out of it, it was tight before but this tipped the balance and I no longer consider it worth my while) and have swapped it for an extra session. As far as I know, that has been the only change there in terms of regular singers/players. I'm not aware of (and I do go there at least one a week for the last 1/2 hr and a game of pool and have chatted about the club) of changes in other customer levels on the folk night.

Re the opening question. I've heard nothing along these lines but it wouldn't surprise me that some pubs are more interested in putting on music (and probably open to consider anything) as a result of the ban.

Whether such efforts would keep a pub viable long term might be another question but I certainly can not see a group of folkies perhaps only once a week and (I know there are exceptions but...) generally not drinking a lot achieving much. I think, in many cases before the ban, we have needed the rest of the week customers to keep the pub open for our folk nights.

Subject: RE: Folk in Pubs after the Ban
From: Sugwash
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:42 AM

It seems to have increased the size of the crowd watching Morris outside pubs, seven men and a dog in one case.

Subject: RE: Folk in Pubs after the Ban
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:15 AM

Some landlords and ladies seem keen to do anything to get people in. Perhaps it will level off and we will be no more welcome than we were before. But some were definetly worried about the loss of punters, at least when the Ban started

Subject: RE: Folk in Pubs after the Ban
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:09 AM

I tend to go into the sort of pubs that didn't have a lot of smokers anyway - but anecdotally I would say business is booming in the ones I do go in.

Subject: RE: Folk in Pubs after the Ban
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:06 AM

I play in several pub sessions, they are all without doubt busier since the ban.

eric

Subject: Folk in Pubs after the Ban
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 08:32 AM

I could be wrong but I have the general feeling that pubs are more willing to host our kind of music since the smoking ban.

Is this true?