Dancing in the seats

Subject: Dancing in the seats
From: Stewart
Date: 26 Oct 07 - 01:55 PM

"THE fall concert season has begun at music halls around the world, and audiences are again sitting in rapt attention with their hands folded quietly in their laps. Does anyone besides me find this odd?"

Daniel J. Levitin, author of "This Is Your Brain On Music," has an opinion piece in today's NY Times titled "Dancing in the Seats."

He goes on to say
"Through tens of thousands of years of evolutionary history, music has nearly always occurred together with dance. Even today, most of the world's languages use a single word to mean both music and dance. The indivisibility of movement and sound, the anthropologist John Blacking has noted, characterizes music across cultures and across times."

I find this very interesting. While I am not a dancer, I do enjoy playing music more than listening to it. I think my playing is a form of dance, as my bow moves across my fiddle strings, my body sways and my fingers dance on the fingerboard. There seems to be an innate connection between body movement and music that seems to be lost when one has to sit quietly in a concert hall, passively listening to others making the music. Singing along with the music is another form of body participation which is quite satisfying.

Levitin concludes by saying
"Music can be a more satisfying cerebral experience if we let it move us physically. When we hear a chord we like in works by Sibelius or Mahler, our brains want to shout out "Yeah!" When an orchestra builds the timbral mass in Ravel's "Bolero," we want to break out of our seats and dance and show how good it feels. Stand up, sit down, shout, let it all out. As the managers of Lincoln Center contemplate renovations, I say rip out some of the seats and give us room to move."

So what do you think?

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Oct 07 - 02:21 PM

Yes, it's odd.

I was looking at the Tribute to Lal Waterson webcast (having opted to be at a more alive musical venue last night).

Time after time Eliza Carthy asked the presumably dead occupants of rows of seats in C# if they were all right. No perceptible response in what was supposed to be a celebration of Lal's life.

I'm quite sure Lal would have preferred the Kneesup ceilidh for the EFDSS 75th anniversary at the same venue on the preceding weekend. No chairs, but amazing music from those not unconnected with the W:C dynasty.

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: lady penelope
Date: 26 Oct 07 - 03:49 PM

I too find it odd to hear music that moves me and feel that I am not permitted to 'go with the flow'.

Not anywhere near so much with folk and other 'pop' forms of music, but mainly with classical music. I've never once been 'shh'd' for singing along or clapping or tapping my foot whilst at a folk concert, but I have been been told off for just tapping my fingers in time to a piece of Beethoven at the Royal Festival Hall.

Admittedly I find it constricting being seated for an entire folk concert, but nothing like what it feels like at a classical concert. But also, I think there are a limited amount of venues of any given size and often bands or artists have to take them with the facilities that they come with, i.e. fixed seating.

Unfortunately, most people tend to become quiet when sat for long periods of time and it takes a herculean effort (on the part of the performer) to get them to either respond or even get out of their seats once they've got there. It's actually a phenomenom that's used by football clubs in Britain to ensure there is limited to no violence in the stands at football games.

So I guess what I'm saying is that there are numerous reasons why people sit quietly in their seats at concerts.

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 03:34 AM

If you want to dance, go to a dance.
If you want to listen, go to a concert.
That way, the wrigglers and jigglers don't piss the listeners off.
Simple.

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 04:14 AM

I guess that in general "folk" music did not evolve in a concert situation and so does sit uneasily there.

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 04:37 AM

Dancing in the aisles and jiggling in seats isn't anything like as irritating as those who sit in statuesque rows, joining in out of tune and clapping out of time. Trad tunes are meant for dancing to and the ideal venue caters for this. When people move naturally to the music they will, presumably, be rather less likely to screw it up and annoy 'listeners'.

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: Linda Goodman Zebooker
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 02:14 AM

One of the nice things about enjoying the four-times-a-week symphony concerts at Chautauauqua Institution (a 9-week summer arts colony in Western New York State) is that these concerts take place in a roofed outdoor amphitheater. You, the listener can sit in a seat. OR you can walk around the area in the perimeter of the amphitheater, behind the seating area, strolling or dancing as you please. It doesn't bother anybody. Two of the most memorable pieces for me I GOT into my conciousness Tchaikovsky's "Romeo and Juliet" and Stravinsky's "The Firebird" suite much more than I could have done seated, because I could react to the music with movement.
Linda

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 03:20 AM

You think it's constricting being in the audience at a classical concert? Try being the performer!

I find it very hard to keep still whilst singing, and if I'm singing something with cajones, like the Dies Irae from Mozart's Requiem (cajones AND teeth!), then it's impossible. I get very dirty looks from the director/conductor, but the audience seem to approve.

LTS

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 03:26 AM

Sounds good Linda, wish there were venues like that out here in THe Backwoods!

I guess my gripe is with the kind of thing I regularly see at non-classical or non-folk events (and therefore out of range of this thread - sorry!), when a girl with Brickie's Arse and one of those foul thong-things up her bum-crack and poking out of her jeans, leaps up in front of me and starts waggling her fat butt in my face and waving her arms in the air, totally oblivious to the fact that her semi-orgasmic dervish-like state is wrecking my enjoyment (not to mention view) of the artiste(s). LOL!

Otherwise, dance on!

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: Linda Goodman Zebooker
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 11:45 AM

Yeah, the Dies Irae sections require a visceral reaction from EVERYBODY. You have to sing them with every fiber of your body, or it doesn't work. The first time I sang the Verdi Requiem, I'd only heard the accompaniment on the piano. So at the dress rehearsal I didn't realize I was standing directly in front of not one, but TWO bass drums that were going to be hit full force. I just about jumped off the stage.

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 01:52 PM

Classical concerts are largely frequented by narrow minded bigots who invent their own hideous rules. Frankly, in the extremely unlikely event of attending one, if somebody "told me off" for finger tapping they would be told to go and play with themselves very quickly indeed!And as for the ludicrous applause rules............

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 04:36 PM

I always dance in my seat at a folk concert. Can't help myself. I like to think I've got a good sense of rhythm....

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 07:35 PM

Not all trad or contemporary folk tunes are dance music. Certainly the trad Irish slow air is not. Martin Carthy famously said that all folk songs are written in the time signature of "one", and that may be true of much narrative song since word rhythms are a different kettle of fish.

Also, the performer may be looking for a meaning in the piece that is not suited for a dance rhythm. Not that I am even a semi-professional performer (mostly, they pay me to go way) but fo ryears I ahve done "The innocent hare" instandard tuning with a sort of horsebeat rhythm. I am experimenting with it in single drop D and virtually no rhythm. Believe me, it is undanceable (unless you have a bad motor problem)

Subject: RE: Dancing in the seats
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 02:34 AM

Richard - let me know when you've finished experimenting and I'll introduce you to a gentleman friend who has the sense of rhythm that is perfect for dancing to that tune... he's got all the grace and co-ordination of a greased up cat in a washing machine but boy, does he love to dance!

LTS