BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)

Subject: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 01:55 PM

Dennis Kucinich is soon going to be bringing a bill to the floor of the House that will be for impeaching VP Cheney. He needs people to contact their representatives to tell them to vote against any motion to table the bill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zisvf7Ci70Y


Kucinich is expected to offer his privileged resolution on Tuesday. He expects to continue pushing it until the House acts. That action is likely to be a successful move by Democratic leaders to table the measure.

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/linkframe.php?linkid=44941


Here's the text of the email that I sent to my Congressman...


Dear Congressman ......

I am a voter in your district. I ask for your attention to the following matter when it comes before you on the floor of the House.

Congressman Kucinich will soon be invoking a privilege of the house by submitting Resolution 333 (motion to impeach Vice President Cheney), and asking for consideration of the bill. I ask that you please vote against any motion to table this bill.

I ask you this for the sake of the future of our country. History is watching. What is done or not done in the next few months will be critical for the preservation of our most sacred and cherished institutions, for ourselves and for future generations.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 02:29 PM

I have written to our Rep. Thanks, Carol.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 03:27 PM

Cheney and Bush should both have been gone long ago, but it isn't going to happen for another fifteen months. A vote in the House for impeachment can never be anything but symbolic, since there is absolutely no possibility of getting a 75% vote in the Senate for conviction. A long and bitter impeachment trial would eliminate any prospect of the more moderate Republicans collaborating with the Democrats to accomplish anything. This really only provides more ammunition for those who are saying this is a do-nothing Congress.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 03:46 PM

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, artbrooks, but my own opinion is that if we don't impeach, the erosion of our Constitution that the Bush administration has worked so hard to bring about will become precedent for future administrations. As long as this precedent remains, I personally don't see any chance of there ever being any moderate Republican or Democratic administrations.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 03:54 PM

1. There is a vote for impeachment in the House.
2. There is a trial in the Senate.
3. There can be no conviction, because that would require half of the Republicans voting for it. Fat chance.
4. So Cheney is acquitted...i.e., he wins, and (from the Right's point of view, at least) the precedent stands-legally.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:14 PM

Those are interesting points, artbrooks. I don't think I agree with them though. If there is a trial in the Senate, I think a lot of evidence will come out that would make it very difficult for even most Republicans to vote against conviction. The number of voters in the US who support impeachment is even higher for Bush/Cheney than it was for Nixon. It could become very uncomfortable, if enough evidence surfaces (and I think it would), for the Senate to fail to convict.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:19 PM

"Twenty Questions About Impeaching a Vice President"

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:26 PM

As Carol pointed out, this would be a good time to see what prospective Dems and Repubs are like in terms of right/wrong. If they can't vote for law now, what damned good will they be to y'all AFTER the next election?

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 05:16 PM

If one considers that the Senate should vote on the basis of right/wrong rather than considering political expedience, than it is fairly certain that Bill Clinton would have been convicted when he was impeached for lying about not having a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky...and then we would have had Al Gore as President in December 1998. Interesting thought, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 05:53 PM

That then becomes the real issue, Art. If the legislative bodies cannot vote based on right/wrong according to law when they themselves make the law, what does that say about law in the USA?

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 06:03 PM

Mostly that it is the same as it has always been, Peace...which is a shame.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 06:44 PM

Good luck to you all down there in the USA with this. Mr Kucinich is a brave man, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 08:28 PM

Sorry about the above - pushed enter too soon!

What is Cheney said to have done which has got Kuchinch so worked up?

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 08:45 PM

Here you go, MarkS. The resolution and supporting documentation...

http://kucinich.house.gov/SpotlightIssues/documents.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 08:47 PM

He's incredibly brave, LH. He's already survived a few attempts on his life (back when he was the mayor of Cleveland).

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 12:52 AM

MarkS - People who don't know why Cheney needs to be impeached are either just plain ignorant in a general sense...or they are willfully, deliberately ignorant...or they're in some state of denial. He has lied about WMDs in Iraq. He has concealed intelligence reports from military intelligence. He has lied about a supposed relationship between Iraq (under Saddam Hussein) and Al Queda. He has illegally, openly and repeatedly threatened to attack Iran, a nation which has not attacked the USA and doesn't even have the means to attack the USA in the first place. He has encouraged a similar illegal attack on Iraq already, another nation which did not attack the USA and had no means of doing so.

Those are illegal actions. They are criminal, both by the USA law and by international law. Cheney has committed high treason against the USA and international war crimes, and he should be tried for both.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 11:18 AM

Thank you. CarolC, for your straightforward answer to my request for information.
Thank you too, Little Hawk. You too answered my question, but your response is somewhat blemished by your first sentence. Did you really need to make that dig?
Thanks again all
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 11:23 AM

Well, pardon me for that, Mark. It was pretty rude of me. I was assuming you were probably just a troll screwing around here on this thread for the hell of it, but I guess maybe I was wrong about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Peace
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 11:41 AM

Allow me to introduce you two: Little Hawk, Mark; Mark, Little Hawk. Both good guys IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: MarkS
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 12:06 AM

OK all - I've reset my cookie! Gotta learn to do that before posting so I do not come up as a guest!
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: balladeer
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 12:40 AM

Ah Hawk. From the hip as ever ....

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: John Hardly
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 05:32 AM

Yeah, brave.

Like the celebrities on Dancing With the Stars. It's inspiring to see someone reach so far out of their comfort zone.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 07:25 AM

Check this out, Mr. Hardly...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=20sRFPAbDQw

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Midchuck
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 10:52 AM

People who don't know why Cheney needs to be impeached are either just plain ignorant in a general sense...or they are willfully, deliberately ignorant...or they're in some state of denial.

You don't do your position of damn bit of good by responding to a sincere question with an ad hominem attack on the person who asked the question, just for asking it. (And if you didn't believe it was a sincere question, you should have presented your evidence that it was not, for the benefit of other readers.)

In Cheney, we see the arrogance of the conservative. In people who use that technique in responding, we see the arrogance of the liberal. Which is why I tend, more and more, to walk away from politics, muttering, "A plague on both...."

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 10:55 AM

Point taken, Midchuck. I have already said as much myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 10:58 AM

There's definitely some big rifts between people who identify with one camp or the other, but my hope is that people who feel alienated from either side or both sides will try to see past all of that and just look at the resolution and judge it on its own merits.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 11:03 AM

"Kucinich Schedules Nationwide Call-in Monday to Address Cheney Impeachment Measure



    WASHINGTON, Nov. 4 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Thousands of supporters,
political activists, and other interested citizens are expected to dial in
Monday (tomorrow) evening to a nationwide conference call to hear
Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich explain why and how he
plans to force an up-or-down vote in the U.S. House of Representatives on
the impeachment resolution against Vice President Richard B. Cheney.
    Last week, the Ohio Congressman announced that he will be offering a
"privileged resolution" on Tuesday, November 6, that will, within two days,
require House members to vote on what to do with the impeachment measure,
which currently has 22 sponsors. Dozens of supportive organizations have
advised the Kucinich campaign that they will be lobbying Congressional
representatives heavily over the next few days to support the Ohio
Congressman impeachment resolution (House Resolution 333).
    The conference call is expected to begin at about 7:30 p.m. ET on
Monday. It will be open to anyone, including representatives of the news
media. Additional details will be posted on the campaign website,
http://www.dennis4president.com.



SOURCE Kucinich for President 2008"

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 11:40 AM

http://www.dennis4president.com

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 01:49 PM

TOO LATE

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 02:03 PM

Better late than never. Might send a loud message to the incoming electees.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 07:55 PM

I believe with no hesitation that GWB will follow the lead of Pakistani president dictator Mussareff and declare a national emergency to activate executive order #51.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 07:58 PM

If he does, Donuel, things are going to get very, very ugly. I hope you are mistaken in your expectation, but I express no particular opinion about it one way or the other. It certainly could happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 08:21 PM

I love Dennis but...

... I am also very concerned that with the American public fed up with "politics" and the timing isn't right...

Yeah, both Bush and Cheney should be impeached... They shoule be charged for war crimes of which they are both terribly guilty... And they should be imprisoned for life!!!

Yes that is what they deserve... Bush make Saddam look like a friggin' Boy Scout...

But nevermind that stuff... If American has any chance of surviving it's own nilistic self than, oh, how I hate to say this, it's going to have to elect the friggin' Dems in numbers that they can control the agenda...

This is kinda a last shot here... A Hail Mary pass...

I have liitle Faith in the Dems... Very little... But the cuurent guys have allready shown that they are not up to the task...

Impeachement, at this point in time, would be an early Christmas gift to the Repubs going into the '08 election...

Now back to the Dems...

Progressives, IMO, have no other game in town right now... We have tried to get their attention with our Green Party and to a certain extent we have done just that...

No, rather than play into the Repubs hands, I belive that progressives should beat up the Dems and leave the stinkin' Repubs alone... Everyone alrerady knows they stink...

Leave the creeps alone...

Jus' MO....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: MarkS
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 10:52 PM

To kind of expand on Boberts post, the biggest problem Kucinich has right now is internal. I recall Nancy Pelosi saying, oh, about a year ago, that impeachment was not on the table, or somesuch.
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 04:28 PM

Motion to table failed. They're now voting on whether or not to refer it to the Judiciary Committee.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 04:34 PM

Looks like the motion to refer the bill to the committee has passed.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 04:51 PM

More Republicans voted against tabling the motion than Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 05:50 PM

Well, that certainly is interesting...!

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 05:56 PM

Yes, it is. I should rephrase my last post for accuracy, though...

More Republicans voted against the motion to table the bill than Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 06:51 PM

Article at:

Debate on Cheney impeachment averted

John

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 06:51 PM

Well sure. That's good tactics on the part of the Republicans. Now the House Judiciary Committee can be tied up wasting their time for the next month or so.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 07:13 PM

Thanks for the article, JiK.

Dennis is now going to put together a big "town hall" type of forum where everyone will be able to discuss the issue of impeachment.

One of the reasons Dennis has given for his pushing the bill at this time is to try to prevent what he sees as a largely inevitable march to war on the part of the Bush administration against Iran. For this reason, Bobert, I don't think I can agree with your assessment of whether or not this impeachment bill is a good idea at this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 08:04 PM

Just as I said...

The Repubs would love nothin' more than to have this bill out front and center...

This is a political version of the rope-a-dope...

The dems were smart to get this thing buried if they want to win in '08...

Hey, llok at it like this... '06 was like gettin' a few folks on base... '08 has the potential for the dems to take it out of the park...

Now, if one looks at our recent history, when one party has control of both Congress and the White House, they can purdy myuch have their way...

Conventional wisdom says "Table that sumabich"...

Does this make me some big ol' dem-lover??? Heck no... But they might just be our last chance and Repubs are used to gettin' beat up by progressives but if we put half a million folks in the streets a month after a dem sworn into the White House, you can bet that the dems won't as easilly dismiss it as the current crooks...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 09:02 PM

I guess I don't share your confidence that the Democrats would be substantially different than the Republicans have been on the subject of endless war, Bobert (consider their past history in this regard, and the voting records of those currently in office), unless they are shown that those, like Bush and Cheney, who will wage illegal wars of convenience using the armed forces of this country will be held accountable.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 10:26 PM

That's right. Only if there is a serious personal price to pay for war crimes and lies committed while in office will the Democrats think twice about continuing this endless war. They've always done so in the past, seems to me. Johnson campaigned as the "peace" candidate in '64, remember? Goldwater was portrayed as the "whacko" who would lead the country to war. Then Johnson led the country to war. Clinton also led the country to war...in the Balkans and Africa.

But I understand the conundrum, Bobert. There simply isn't anyone else who CAN get elected to replace the Republicans except the Democrats.

What a total drag.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 07:09 PM

No, Carol, I have no confidence in the Dems... But less in the Repubs...

Like I said before, it's gonna take an army of street doldiers to force the Dems to act like an opposition party...

And then there's Ron Paul... Okay, I don't agree with everything the guy is asying but the most imporrtant part of his message that is being taken seriouly by progressives is that our foriegn policy is so expensive that it might just take down our economy and then our country... This message is getting thru to just about everyone and the Dems have to know just what a popular message this is and one that can not be ignored... This is a real movement of "thouhgt" and the Dems just might get *stuck* with it... That, in essence, could make the Dems a true opposition party by defualt...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 08:08 PM

That army of street soldiers needs a carrot and a stick, Bobert, if they're going to have any effect on how the Democrats do things. The carrot is their votes, and the stick is impeachment. That's how the founding fathers planned it, and that's why they provided impeachment as a corrective tool when the politicians behave like dictators instead of servants of the people.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 09:03 PM

Problem is that you and I don't represent the general electorate... If we did then I'd have both Bush and Cheney impeached but also with one ways tickets to Iraq...

Reality, tho, is that in doing so we'll end up with Rudi Guilani... If you want President Rudi then go ahead with an impeachment that won't work anyway...

That is the reality of the situation, Carol... Americans are still purdy pissed off about the last impeachment... It was a collasal waste to tax payers money and a collasal waste of time... If the Dems want to insure a lose in '08 they could do this...

This ain't got one thing to do with the guilt of Bush and Cheney but 100% about the Dems chances of winning it all in '08... They ain't stupid...

Yeah, you and I might want it to be different but it ain't... It is what it is...

Gear up to fight with the Dems and leave these current crooks for the historians... They will get it right...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 11:27 PM

When Nixon was impeached, it didn't result in a Republican getting elected in the next election. It got Jimmy Carter elected. The reason is because the majority of people saw that Nixon was not acting in their best interests or in the country's best interests. When Clinton was impeached, a lot of people got pissed off because they saw that the people trying to impeach him were not acting in their best interests or the country's best interests. But that didn't stop a Republican from getting elected in the next election cycle.

If Cheney and/or Bush get impeached, people will see the evidence for themselves and, as with Nixon, the majority of people will see that Bush and Cheney are not acting in the best interests of the country or the majority of Americans, and as with Nixon, I don't think that will result in a backlash against the Democrats by the majority of voters.

Subject: RE: BS: Impeachment Action Needed (quickly)
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 01:54 AM

Only problem with that CarolC was that Richard Nixon was NEVER impeached, he resigned, I would have thought as an American that you would have known that.

Also gone through the link supplied relating to Dennis's impeachment proceedings aimed at Dick Cheney, Article by Article and reading through the "so-called evidence". Thankfully for Mr Kucinich it is not put before a court of law, as not one shred of what he imagines is evidence would stand up. Equally thankfully there are enough members who think in legal terms for a correct decision to be reached - i.e. the impeachment process will go nowhere. Your self serving politicians in the US have got more important things to think about over the next twelve months - their re-election.