Bill Groggins' Cheating Heart

Subject: Bill Groggins' Cheating Heart
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 29 Apr 99 - 12:21 AM

I was just sittin' and pickin' the banjo, tryin' to work out performable arrangements of some old tunes: Tennessee Waltz, Maiden's Prayer, etc., when I hit a phrase that reminded me of Hank Williams' "Your Cheatin' Heart," so I played it for a while, and became aware that he must have swiped the tune: it's "Bill Groggins' Goat," which I'm sure I knew before 1940, which I'm also sure is before Hank "composed" "Your Cheatin' Heart." Oh, another of the tunes I had been fumbling my way through is "Over the Waves," which someone ripped off for "When You Are in Love." Relating this to the "Simple Gifts" thread, how many songs can we come up with that are as clearly plagiarized as these have been? --seed

Subject: RE: Bill Groggins' Cheating Heart
From: Banjer
Date: 29 Apr 99 - 01:53 AM

There are many songs that sound alike. Hence the old banjo joke, How can you tell banjo songs apart?
By their names!

I too find that as I start trying to work out a song it invariably leads to another one. I once did that to my banjo teacher. He had gone on a short vacation and on his return asked had I made any progress. "Yes," I told him proudly, "I have figured out at least three songs!" I then proceeded to play "The Great Speckled Bird" which of course is also the tune for "I Didn't Know God Made Honky Tonk Angels" and "It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels"!
Seed, did old Hank really swipe the tuen, or did he maybe change enough to make something else out of an old tune?

Subject: Lyr Add: BILL GROGGINS' GOAT / ...GROGAN'S...
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 29 Apr 99 - 03:26 AM

Banjer, with the exception of the bridge, which "Bill Groggins' Goat" doesn't have, the tunes are almost identical. (and another "Speckled Bird" clone is "I'm Thinking Tonight of My Blue Eyes," and a while back I posted another, "You're a Detour on the Highway to Heaven."

Here's "Bill Groggins' Goat," which I can't find in the digitrad (which I've found many times doesn't mean it isn't there--songs hide from me when I go looking there).

Bill Groggins' goat
Was feelin' fine,
Ate three red shirts
Right off the line.

Bill took an axe,
Gave him a whack,
And tied him to
The railroad track.

The whistle blew,
The train drew nigh;
Bill Groggins' goat
Was doomed to die.

He gave a grunt
Of awful pain,
Coughed up the shirts,
And flagged the train.

--seed

Subject: RE: Bill Groggins' Cheating Heart
From: Zorro
Date: 29 Apr 99 - 06:06 AM

An old folk singer / teacher told me once: "If you steal from one person it's stealing. If you steal from two or more, it's research!" On the Video, "Irish Music in America" Pete Seeger suggests that it's easier to write a song than to find an original tune for it and that we've been using, editing tunes that already exist since the first minstrels began singing. In that same video the Clancy brothers point out that Bob Dylan's song "With God on Our Side" has the same tune as "Patriot Game," which has the same tune as the "Bold Grenedier" which has the same tune as "One morning, one morning.." A lot of research there. Z

Subject: RE: Bill Groggins' Cheating Heart
From: Banjer
Date: 29 Apr 99 - 07:02 AM

Thanks, Seed, now I can tell him I learned at least five songs that time!!! As for Irish and Scottish music, I find there are many tunes that have different lyrics. Johnson's Motor Car is one that comes readily to mind and I know there are many others. But I still can't think of old Hank "stealing" anything..Borrowing, maybe? (*BG*)