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BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?

Cats 06 Nov 07 - 02:27 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 Nov 07 - 02:32 PM
maeve 06 Nov 07 - 02:45 PM
Cats 06 Nov 07 - 02:47 PM
Peace 06 Nov 07 - 02:49 PM
Cats 06 Nov 07 - 02:51 PM
Peace 06 Nov 07 - 02:54 PM
Sooz 06 Nov 07 - 02:55 PM
Cats 06 Nov 07 - 03:33 PM
Bonzo3legs 06 Nov 07 - 03:42 PM
Peace 06 Nov 07 - 03:45 PM
Cats 06 Nov 07 - 03:46 PM
Jean(eanjay) 06 Nov 07 - 04:36 PM
maeve 06 Nov 07 - 04:45 PM
Tig 06 Nov 07 - 05:03 PM
Cats 06 Nov 07 - 05:16 PM
Jean(eanjay) 06 Nov 07 - 05:22 PM
vectis 06 Nov 07 - 06:50 PM
Big Al Whittle 07 Nov 07 - 06:17 AM
Jean(eanjay) 07 Nov 07 - 07:30 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 07 Nov 07 - 08:14 AM
jonm 07 Nov 07 - 08:22 AM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Nov 07 - 09:04 AM
Big Al Whittle 07 Nov 07 - 09:27 AM
Jean(eanjay) 07 Nov 07 - 09:28 AM
Grab 07 Nov 07 - 11:15 AM
Paco Rabanne 07 Nov 07 - 11:58 AM
Arnie 07 Nov 07 - 01:05 PM
Cats 07 Nov 07 - 01:57 PM
Big Al Whittle 07 Nov 07 - 02:08 PM
Trevor 08 Nov 07 - 11:17 AM
Big Phil 08 Nov 07 - 11:59 AM
Big Al Whittle 08 Nov 07 - 12:31 PM
jonm 08 Nov 07 - 12:57 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 08 Nov 07 - 02:31 PM
Cats 08 Nov 07 - 02:54 PM
Rog Peek 08 Nov 07 - 02:57 PM
Rog Peek 08 Nov 07 - 05:44 PM
Peace 08 Nov 07 - 05:54 PM
Peace 08 Nov 07 - 05:56 PM
Peace 08 Nov 07 - 05:59 PM
Peace 08 Nov 07 - 06:06 PM
Eye Lander 08 Nov 07 - 06:13 PM
JeZeBeL 09 Nov 07 - 04:44 AM
Big Phil 09 Nov 07 - 07:33 AM
maeve 09 Nov 07 - 08:14 AM
Cats 09 Nov 07 - 12:53 PM
Stringsinger 09 Nov 07 - 01:14 PM
Backwoodsman 10 Nov 07 - 07:22 AM
Big Al Whittle 10 Nov 07 - 07:54 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 11 Nov 07 - 01:59 AM
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Subject: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Cats
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 02:27 PM

Well here I am sitting at the computer trying to find an excuse not to get stressed out by the imminent arrival of Ofsted, when I thought, 'I can't be the only one'. Knowing that loads of people out there are teachers or work in nurseries [child variety, not plants], I can't be the only one facing the dreaded inspectors tomorrow! The new 'light touch ' sounds OK but being told on Monday night Ofsted were coming on Wednesday morning and being told tonight that my dept is one of the foci for the inspection..... hey ho, Now where did I put the bottle opener?


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 02:32 PM

What is Ofsted? Is it English?


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: maeve
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 02:45 PM

Office for Standards in Education, Children's Services and Skills (Ofsted)in the UK.

It doesn't sound like much fun, but I expect you'll be alright. There are so many people doing a poor job in child care and the world of education, anyone doing a credible job will, I hope, do just fine.

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Cats
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 02:47 PM

Ofsted stands for the Office of Standards in Education. They are a team of inspectors who arrive at your school with only 48 hours maximum notice and can walk into any classroom and grade your teaching having been there for 25 minutes, ask for any documents and can grill you on your own or in a group for as long as they want. They will walk round a school, talk to children, staff, parents and governors and, in less than 48 hours, will decide on whether your school is poor and should go into special measures, satisfactory, good or excellent. They will also decide, after seeing you teach for 25 minutes, if you are a good, poor or satisfactory teacher and if your department is good, satisfactory or poor. Basically, they have the power to put a school in special measures, or hold it up as excellent, make or break a teachers career and walk away with no comeback or right of appeal. And we aren't meant to be worried....


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Peace
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 02:49 PM

And who monitors the people from Ofsted?


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Cats
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 02:51 PM

Nobody


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Peace
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 02:54 PM

Don't you people have associations or unions? Legal protection?


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Sooz
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 02:55 PM

Ofsted is the official body for inspecting schools in the UK.

We were "done" in June and it was quite painless. I'm PSHCE coordinator and that was the only subject they asked for the paperwork for! Luckily it was easily done at a moments notice and the whole thing went well.

Good luck with yours and keep us informed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Cats
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 03:33 PM

Peace, yes we do have Unions and I am very proud to be an official in mine, but, even though we complain about Ofsted, and I have spoken out nationally against them and the system, as it is the government body set up to inspect schools there is nothing we can do. We just have to remember that there is 'only one f in ofsted'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 03:42 PM

But it's your chosen career. I promise you that nothing, but nothing compares with an HM Revenue & Customs inspection!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Peace
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 03:45 PM

Thanks, Cats.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Cats
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 03:46 PM

Yes you are right, but I chose my career before Ofsted came along.... Good luck with your customs inspection.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 04:36 PM

Cats, I've been through 3 Ofsted inspections. After the first one I stopped worrying.

I honestly don't know how anybody can judge in the short time they are there - after all, we can't do brilliant singing and dancing lessons all the time and they do understand that. Also, you can have an inspector of a completely different subject coming to observe you!

My advice would be to try not to think about it too much (difficult I know). It will come and go and life will go on.

Good luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: maeve
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 04:45 PM

Do let us know how things go, will you? It can't be a pleasant thing to anticipate.

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Tig
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 05:03 PM

Office                            Stupid
For                               Academic
Semi                              Timewasting
Trained                           Study
Educational
Disruptives

Best of luck Cats - and anyone else who is being tormented


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Cats
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 05:16 PM

Thanks all, this will be my 6th Ofsted, including a pre-ofsted this January and it never gets any easier. I just thought someone else out there might be going through the same thing


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 05:22 PM

Fancy surviving 6+ of them.

Good, good luck!


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: vectis
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 06:50 PM

I was done last week. They grilled our HOD for over an hour (glad I'm back to being an indian again) but she got away with it and we got a good.
You'll be fine. You know your stuff so you won't have a problem.
Anyway what the Hell can they do? Fire you? No! So stop worrying or your BP will go sky high again. Just chill Girl.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 06:17 AM

I had a colleague who lost the sight of an eye, when his blood pressure went out of control prior to one of these idiotic OFSTED visits.

Similarly the OFSTED visits were a factor in inducing my sister to retire early from a job she loved.

I have taught in many schools, as I was a supply teacher in the latter part of my career. Most teachers and all schools are vulnerable to criticism. English schools have no stability - the pace of reform has been unrelenting and politically motivated. Any one of half a dozen plans since world war 2 could have served our children well - if we had concentrated on getting them right, rather feverishly changing them at each change of government.

If there is anything wrong with our schools - the blame should fall on the administators rather than the teachers. Someone ought to police them - with a cattle prod.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 07:30 AM

During the preparations for my first Ofsted one of our teachers had a heart attack and was off work for months.

wld - I agree with you about the pace of reform.

Anyway what the Hell can they do? Fire you?

This reminds me of the time a few years ago when the police actually came into my school to question me about a "friend" of mine. He started off by saying "Sorry to come into school on what is not a school matter." I replied "Don't worry - I should be so lucky that they'd sack me!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 08:14 AM

The employees in any organisation working to accreditation such as (in Europe) ISO9002 can expect to be audited, and much more rigorously and more frequently than teachers.

As a union rep Cats should know that much more goes into teacher assessment than 25 minutes in the classroom. The inspectors (most of whom in my experience know what they are talking about) discuss all aspects of teaching with a school's head or principal and with other members of the senior leadership team, curriculum co-ordinators etc. The overall tone of the final report also takes account of other input, for instance from the school's improvement partner.

As vice-chair of governors and chair of finance at a large specialist secondary school and FE college, and having been a governor at other schools over many years, I have been on the receiving end of Ofsted inspections. I also had my work scrutinised many times when I was a senior manager with one of Britain's biggest PLCs. I know which is the easier ride.

But either way, the principle is the same. Inspections are aimed at establishing whether people and institutions actually do what they set out to do. A school writes its own plan. Teachers write their own plans. If people do what they said they would do they will have no problem.

The people who have reason to fear Ofsted are poor teachers, poor leaders and poor governors. That gives me a lot of comfort.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: jonm
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 08:22 AM

To those who feel that their particular brand of inspection (HMCE, ISO9000 etc.) must be worse, bear in mind that with Ofsted, it's not just whether you do your job well but the manner and attitudes you have while doing it! The goal posts move annually, so you are constantly changing approach to meet the inspectors' criteria, not necessarily for the benefit of the students!

Seriously, in the middle of something similar at the moment and a veteran of almost as many inspections, if the basics are in place, you're fine:
Evidence of planning of a session involving appropriate variety of activities ...
... taking into account any special needs or requirements of the students and some measures to account for those who are slower or faster than the norm.
Evidence of links between the observed session and the ones before and after it ...
... including records of how you've assessed learner progress and used it to inform your planning.

Any other issues they might raise are bigger ones relating to policies and procedures and will affect the whole-school grade rather than your individual one.

Despite what all the highly-qualified time-served educationalists in the Press think, only about one in ten lessons is adjudged to have any unsatisfactory elements and about one in twenty-five is unsatisfactory overall. About half of all "unsatisfactories" relate to non-teaching issues, such as overcrowding or insufficient resources. In most places, if you know a teacher worse than you, you'll be OK.

Someone should be measuring the damage done to morale in an institution even by a successful inspection...


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 09:04 AM

The trouble with teaching is the unpredictability factor.
With a room full of kids, unplanned incidents can happen, and the kids play up.
No one wants someone watching when that happens, and a bad report can cause a lot of pain.
I now work in a referal unit for excluded kids.
The inspectors assured us that we would not be criticised for misbehaviour of the kids since they all have behaviour problems.
Nevertheless one of my lessons was marked down on teaching and learning because one of the kids did play up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 09:27 AM

'The people who have reason to fear Ofsted are poor teachers, poor leaders and poor governors. That gives me a lot of comfort. '

I have seen many good teachers terrorised, made ill - and some driven out of the profession by the way OFSTED operates.

Their loss to the profession and the distress they were made to feel should signify more with a decent civilised person, than your vacuous need to be comforted by seeing someone slinging their weight about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 09:28 AM

Keith, it happened to a friend of mine. A brilliant teacher and usually no problems with difficult classes but one particular class were "showing off" when the inspector was observing and she was also marked down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Grab
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 11:15 AM

Cats, what's the alternative? "Self-policing" by schools just gave us generations of incompetent, incapable or plain inhumanly-evil teachers serving out their time and ruining kids' education because it was easier than firing them. This is the fault of lazy or risk-averse management in the school, sure, but how else would you ensure that teachers are doing their jobs reasonably competently?

FWIW, they should put a webcam in every classroom for a week instead. No observer in the room, and the kids wouldn't know which classroom the observer was checking.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 11:58 AM

I was audited as part of our ISO9002 acreditation last week. Very detailed inspection of my department by a pair of right nerds. Was I bothered? Was I buggery! You only need to worry if you are CRAP at your job!


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Arnie
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 01:05 PM

My wife is a primary school head and today is Day 1 of her Ofsted inspection. She's worked flat out to prepare for this all weekend, as have all her teaching staff. On Monday night and last night she didn't get home until after 8 pm, having met with various parents & governors after work. I get overtime pay in my job, something that seems to be unknown in the teaching profession! Anyway, she's got another day to go and then it's all over for another 3 yrs!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Cats
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 01:57 PM

Thanks for all your messages and good luck to Arnies wife. To answer just a few of your comments. I appreciate that inspectors 'know' what's going on in schools but to grade a teacher all they have to do is be in their classroom for 25 minutes. As a union officer and caseworker I spend alot of time picking up the pieces of colleagues who are exceptionally good at their work but are shot to pieces by Ofsted. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be accountable. We should be but it is the way in which it is done is what I am concerned about. I had a preOfsted in January where we had 2 county inspectors in for 3 days and were with me nearly all the time. My dept came out as excellent so I should have nothing to worry about, but, that was taken over a period of time so they got a really good idea of what was going on. Today I was grilled for 35 minutes as the SENCo in the school, not about my work and the way I work with students but on the data there is and how I use it. I was then asked for a breakdown and analysis of all the students on the Record of Need, what their achievemnet levels are, whether thet are on target, analysis of boys achievement, analysis of Dyslexic students attainment etc. Bearing in mind I have over 350 students on RoN she did not want the data but a full written analysis by the end of the day. That was on top of everything else she had from the dept. It ran to 8 pages, close typed. She also asked for an analysis and breakdown of every intervention strategy used over the past 3 years and how that had affected results and progress of selected students. Which students? All of them on RoN! And I have taught today too.
I know I am brilliant. I advise on Special Needs at the very highest level in the country but I'm still stressed out by the whole process. It's not just the ones who have nothing to worry about who should be worried ~ we all worry. More tomorrow! Glass of wine is callling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 02:08 PM

'You only need to worry if you are CRAP at your job!'

Yeh and Mr and Mrs Doodlebug were the only ones who got killed in the blitz - it had their name written on it.

if you haven't seen much of life you shouldn't talk so authoritatively. I only have been in large numbers of schools because, I had to leave teaching when my wife got disabled. The average teacher who takes care of his end of things has a very limited view from his classroom.

The carnage from the whole raft of reforms that started with the national curriculum and took in OFSTED was immense.   Not to mention the sheer waste of financial resources.

teaching is a funny business. the bloke taking four kids for 'A' level is of higher status than the genius of cunning who manages to motivate a class of 40 sociopaths. And when they need an inspector its invariably the blokes who have dodged the column with 'difficult' classes by working in posh schools that get chosen.

frequently the guy who has worked in a difficult schools is judged to be only worthy of such lowly duties as teaching the lower classes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Trevor
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 11:17 AM

We're part of the adult learning sector and our inspectorate became part of OFSTED last year.

We've also, over the last couple of years, taken over a couple of services which also fall within scope, meaning that we have had inspections for the last three years and will have another in 2008. The latest was last week and we got 'good' across the board.

Doing the delivery bit is only half the story isn't it? The other biggie is making sure that all of your systems are in place and actually doing something to contribute to the level of service provided. We've been collared twice for having data available but doing bugger all with it.

The other thing is that the goal posts move all the time, so just because we were doing well last time doesn't mean we can sit on our laurels - improvement is the name of the game.

Not sure that wld's assertion about where inspectors come from is correct - ours all seem to have had pretty varied backgrounds and experience.

I registered as an Associate Inspector a couple of years ago myself -I thought, apart from anything else, it might give us a head start on what was needed.

And, they're probably not a patch on a gang of 13-16 year-old 'sociopaths', but trying to do something with a group of long-term unemployed people, who only turn up in order that their benefits aren't stopped, is no picnic!! Especially in front of an inspector!


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Big Phil
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 11:59 AM

Thirteen weeks holiday a year, good pay, nine till five, long lunch times, nice clean environment to work in, sounds like paradise to someone who has to make a living working long hours in a filthy job for a pittance of a wage. A little test for a couple of hours and panic ensues - goodness me get a life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 12:31 PM

'Not sure that wld's assertion about where inspectors come from is correct - ours all seem to have had pretty varied backgrounds and experience.'

Of course a vast over generalisation. But if you've taught in 'difficult' schools (they used to be called 'schools of exceptional difficulty' when I started) you know there are ways of 'working the system' - human ingenuity being what it is - dodging the difficult pupils and situations. Leaving some other poor herbert to pick up the pieces.

The byways of the world are full of robbers and the pathways of the education system are strewn with these despicable characters and their victims - easily identifiable; they walk around telling everyone they love teaching and have 'no problems in the classroom'.

No teacher who has shouldered his fair share of the burden of functioning in an inner city secondary school would be in too much of a rush to sit in judgement of his fellow teachers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: jonm
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 12:57 PM

Hmm... someone doesn't necessarily understand, Big Phil. WLD has it down pat.

It's Thursday night, I've already done 48 hours IN WORK this week with tomorrow to go, plus some extra stuff on the computer at home.

I could do half the work with half the responsibility for the same money if I went back into industry. Or I could manage the same size budget and staff headcount in industry and take home £70k plus.

Oh, and I get seven weeks' holiday. No overtime. No perks.

Find me another graduate job with similar intellectual and mental demands?

Inspections in education are not fair and are not objective. Judgements are subjective and there is no right of appeal.

Fortunately for teachers undergoing inspection, a lot of the focus these days is on systems and procedures and the collection and management of data to support continuous improvement. Cock that up and it's the management, not the teaching staff, who get it in the neck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 02:31 PM

"Thirteen weeks holiday a year, good pay, nine till five, long lunch times, nice clean environment to work in, sounds like paradise to someone who has to make a living working long hours in a filthy job for a pittance of a wage."

Wrong in every single particular, Phil.

I suggest you find out something about a subject before running off at the mouth.

I've never been a teacher, but fifteen years as a school caretaker provides considerable insight into their working conditions.

For the average junior teacher, their pay wasn't high enough by far to account for the difference between their educational qualifications and mine.

They have, of necessity, to come in to work during their so called "holidays", to take care of preparation for the coming term.

They spend more hours working at home evenings and weekends than even the most workaholic businessmen, something rendered even more inescapable by the "help" the government has given to education in the form of extra paperwork.

As to the nice clean environment, I suggest you pop your head inside the door of your closest Victorian built inner city school and take a good look.

I wouldn't have their job at three times the money. They are the most undervalued people in the "civilized" world. We treat our bin men better, and it doesn't help when what they do is sneered at by people who don't have a clue.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Cats
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 02:54 PM

I'd love long holidays, a clean environment etc etc.... Just tell me where I can get it because you are definitley NOT talking about teaching in a school. When did I last have a break or lunchtime when I could sit down and not work through? Don't know. How many days in this last half term was I working on school work? 7. How long did I get at home last night, on the first night Jon was home after being away for over a week, when I wasn't doing school work? 20 minutes. Tell me the last time I could go to a folk club or festival in school term time? Years. I hope Big Phil was just trying to wind us all up as no one on mudcat could possible believe what he said ~ you're all too sensible.
Ofsted is over for another little while and now we sit and wait. And, of course, if they have got something factually wrong or there is something they have misinterpreted or have made an incorrct assumption, well that's tough as it cannot be corrected and we have no right of appeal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 02:57 PM

I'm a teacher Don, have been for 35 years, part time retired now. When people go on about long holidays, short hours, cushy number and so on, my response is "Yes, great isn't it!" That really gets them going. No point in rising to it, in my experience, and I've had a lot, if that's what they believe, you'll not change their minds.

Rog


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 05:44 PM

Yes GUEST, like I said Short hours, Long holidays, Cushy number. Eat your heart out!


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 05:54 PM

Why are unnamed GUEST allowed to post here? Thought that was verboten.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 05:56 PM

Could we please have a clone block that GUEST? That would be nice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 05:59 PM

Better yet. Why is a GUEST who's a member allowed to troll under the GUEST name when he has a valid Mudcat name? Why IS that? That is, why is some testicularly challenged crudhead allowed to post under the GUEST name?


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 06:06 PM

Thak you for removing the GUEST post. Any chance of blocking that person?


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Eye Lander
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 06:13 PM

What's the difference between a plastic surgeon and an OFSTED inspector?

The plastic surgeon tucks up your features!!!

Speaking from experience, our school was was failed back in 1997, it took us years and years to get over it and several members of staff did not recover emotionally.

Jillie


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 04:44 AM

My partner has his first ever ofstead coming up sometime in the near future....

We're taking bets on how long it is after that before he quits teaching lol.

By the way...any teachers who are interested....Gervase Phinn is giving talks in waterstones stores across the country at the moment...always hilariously funny and a really nice guy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Big Phil
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 07:33 AM

Not fair to block someones oration just because its a minority view.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: maeve
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 08:14 AM

It's one name per person on Mudcat, Big Phil. Registered members are not permitted to post under alternate names (with rare exceptions for safety or Secret Santa thread issues), and each unregistered guest may only use one consistant name per person. We see and welcome many minority views here, whether or not we agree with the views. Trolling behavior is rightfully forbidden, removable, and blockable.

I notice that you were able to post your view about teachers despite the inflammatory and uninformed nature of your post. That's as it should be. If teaching had ever been close to your description, I'd still be working in that field. Enjoy your day.

Regards,

maeve


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Cats
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 12:53 PM

All over for another 3 years... I know the result and I'm not allowed to tell anyone until the final report has been agreed and published by Ofsted on their website. So, I'll just say thanks for all your support, good luck to all of you who are about to undergo the same experience and I'm off to see if the champagne is chilled enough yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 01:14 PM

"Is our children learning?" Need we say much more?
"Kick children's, that are left, behinds"


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 07:22 AM

Every job has it's ups and downs, we all have our crosses to bear, stress exists in most occupations. Trying to compare jobs and say that this one is more stressful than that one is pointless, it proves nothing (except maybe that the person doing the comparing hasn't actually ever done the job they're trying to put down).

I'd guess that my job is probably as demanding time-wise, and as stressful as any (including teaching) but I've no way of proving it, it's just my feeling. And that's the position just about everyone else is in too (including the teachers!).

We all do what we do. If it's too hot by the fire, move away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 07:54 PM

Basically the education system has been up shit creek for a long long time.

The thing was sort of held together by Officer types as headmasters and NCO's a heads of depts, liberal amounts of corporal punishment up until about the mid sixties.

Since then things have gone to the bad in a big way, and no ones admitting it. Teachers turn up with lessons prepared but there are a lot of teachers simply unable to control the kids to get the lessons taught.

I've heard you say Backwoodsman before, give every teacher a cane and tell them to get on with it. But that won't work for a variety of reasons. There has been a sea change in peoples attitudes as to how children are disciplined and bottom line, the kids' parents pay your wages - without their support, the kind of iron fist regimes we lived with as kids can't be maintained.

Also there has been a lot of burying of heads in the sand. We had a Canadian exchange teacher over in my second year of teaching in 1972 - the first year the school age went up to 16. (As by that time they were having great difficulty thinking what the hell to do with non academic kids to the age of 15, that was a bloody irresponsible move.)

This Canadian teacher said our education policy reminded him of the first world war generals. It was obvious the young men we were teaching had no interest whatsoever in the benefits of literacy, and we were driving everybody nuts - the kids and the teachers - by blethering endlessly on and sending our troops over the top, in the classroom day after day. He reckoned we should be teaching life skills - how to be short order cook, change a wheel on a car, stuff that would be some use to them.

The trouble is of course that the plonkers in charge of education probably couldn't change the wheel of a car themselves - so they're not going to be able to grasp the value of this.

In fact since then we had Thatcher, Sir Keith Joseph and the National Curriculum - with its loony message that all seven year olds should be able to recognise the difference between renaissance and classical art,   Everyone should be studying Shakespeare and learning two languages. Really things have regressed.

So rather than admit they're not up to organising an education system that has the best interests of the children and the broad popular support of the parents and the community generally - they do the cowardly thing, they turn on the teachers.

This OFSTED crap is a bit like going to war. Hemingway said if you go war often enough, you'll get killed. And that's how OFSTED works, quite randomly one day it will turn on you. And you'd be stupid if you think, it will never be me. Believe you me - I've seen it maim some damn good teachers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 01:59 AM

my mrs has been through it at least twice in diferent schools since i can remember..

not much fun in our house while it happens..

latest pay 'initiative' she had to jump through form filling
and intervieing flaming hoops for
has somehow seemed to recognise her value
whilst downgrading pay points

and leaving her several hundred pounds per annum worse off..!!!????



yeah.. 'they' certainly know how to motivate teachers dont they..


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 02:37 AM

"I've heard you say Backwoodsman before, give every teacher a cane and tell them to get on with it. But that won't work for a variety of reasons. There has been a sea change in peoples attitudes as to how children are disciplined and bottom line, the kids' parents pay your wages - without their support, the kind of iron fist regimes we lived with as kids can't be maintained."

Yep, you're right Al, and that's where it all went wrong. Too many interfering parents trying to tell professional educators how to do their job, too many possessive parents, obsessive about their 'perfect little angels', defending their kids' bad behaviour against teachers and wrecking teachers' careers because the teacher dared to challenge that perfect little angel's behaviour, too many barrack-room lawyers in the classroom spouting the "I know my rights, you can't punish me" drivel, too many kids waving their fists in teachers' faces and getting away with it - I could go on and on.

It's not Ofsted that's killing education, it's the liberalism and political-correctness of the past 30 years wot dun it in Guv.

But, as always, that's JMHO!
Cheers M'dears!
S:0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 03:23 AM

I dunno - it was pretty inferior stuff, they got away with as education for the vast majority of people when they had all this power. No wonder people questioned what all this obeisance to authority was leading to. The teachers themselves weren't asking the questions and provididng the leadership.

In a lot of grammar schools like the one I went to - they were only interested in the really brightest kids,(and for brightest read University material.)

I worked and did teaching practices in the sec. mods and they let down a load of children and parents. The first sec mod, I worked in spent £25 in my first year on remedial reading materials. This was in a school for more than 500 boys with a third of them with a reading age of less than eight. Interesting place, three of the old boys had actually been hanged!


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 03:24 AM

Not by the staff, I must add!


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 04:02 AM

'You only need to worry if you are CRAP at your job!'

..or if you're good at your job but are being judged by a crap Ofsted inspector.



DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 04:23 AM

LOL!

We could debate for ever, but the plain, simple, unadorned fact remains that a breed of parents has evolved who have taught their kids that acknowledgement, let alone acceptance, of authority is unnecessary, and the result is a breed of kids who refuse to accept discipline and refuse to respect and obey anyone who has the temerity to tell them what to do. And as this breed of kids breed themselves, the problem is compounded.

Having said that - most young people, IME and IMHO, are good, and have the virtues of self-discipline and respect for others.

And (getting back to Ofsted, where this all started) most teachers are good, they just still haven't got their heads around a rule that the rest of us work under - that your performance is closely measured (in my case FOUR audits PER YEAR, and that's every year, not every four years, the shortest taking three days, the longest, a real fine-tooth-comb job, takes three weeks) and, if you're crap at the job, you're out on your neck, tough shit. That's how it is, and we just roll with it - how often do you see threads on Mudcat started by accountants (who work for the hardest taskmaster of all - The Number On The Bottom Line), moaning that the audit's about to start and they're close to a nervous breakdown and it's so unfair?

It's the Real World - sorry, but it is.

OOH now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Cats
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 04:47 AM

Backwoodsman, we do have Perfromance Management which monitors our progress through very strict targets, measures our students performance against national levels and how much value added we are giving our students, we are obsereved by managers three times a year and if we don't come up to the criteria we don't get our pay rise and we are put on capability, so, please, don't think we aren't well regulated and inspected, we are, but having Ofsted descend on you and make or break your career in 25 minutes or your school in 48 hours is very different.
Good luck to anyone who is being inspected / Ofsteded this week ~ you might not know yet that they are coming on Tuesday......


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 05:24 AM

Lets suppose you right BWM, in your humble opinions and experience, what do we do next.

Shoot the kids, shoot the parents....they are the commodity we are dealing with. kids and parents.

What you are proposing is a bit like saying, alright I'm an accountant - but I'm really pissed off with counting this money stuff. From this day forward, I shall count bananas.

There needs to be real debate in the country about education, and not just from those mouthy middle class gits who dominate every debate.

I'm sure the engineers report as to why The Titanic was going down was bloody interesting to the Captain. But it was about as much use to him as the OFSTED reports are to teachers and schools generally.


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Subject: RE: BS: Anyone being Ofsted-ed?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 09:14 AM

Over-reaction to perfectly valid views Al. Wish I had the answer but, like the 'Experts', I don't. I just believe that education was better when it was in the hands of the trained professionals, instead of being forced to butt-kiss smart-alec parents and their spawn-of-the-devil offspring.

Cats, I was simply pointing out that teachers aren't the only ones who face audit and performance measurement, and the censure that oten accompanies it. Many people in other, equally demanding and stressful occupations are subject both to FREQUENT and IN-DEPTH EXTERNAL scrutiny, as well as continuous assessment by management. But they don't constantly moan and wail about it on fora like this (check out the number of threads about Ofsted inspections). It's life. You need to get over it and move on.

But, as I said originally, there's no point batting back and forth because I'm not in your job, you're not in mine. Outta here now.


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