Tech: Overheated laptops

Subject: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 05:54 AM

I was watching one of these catalogue mail order programmes last night and they were demonstrating a fan powered lap top cooler/rest. This is for use if you've got the laptop, say, on a wooden desk where the heat can't escape. The idea is that it props the lap top up while circulating cool air underneath it, thus preventing the unit from overheating.

According to the demonstrator, overheating causes the processor to under perform and can also shorten the life of the laptop.

Since my laptop spends most of its working life flat on a wooden desk, I'm interested in finding out:-

A.

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 06:00 AM

Sorry Folks, my desktop PC just threw a wobbler, causing me to post the message before I'd finished.

As I was saying.

I was watching one of these catalogue mail order programmes last night and they were demonstrating a fan powered lap top cooler/rest. This is for use if you've got the laptop, say, on a wooden desk where the heat can't escape. The idea is that it props the lap top up while circulating cool air underneath it, thus preventing the unit from overheating.

According to the demonstrator, overheating causes the processor to under perform and can also shorten the life of the laptop.

Since my laptop spends most of its working life flat on a wooden desk, I'm interested in finding out:-

A. Whether either of these statements is true, and whether the losses of performance and life span are big enough to worry about?

B. Whether a cooler would actually work, or whether propping up the laptop with a book would be just as effective?

Would anyone know?

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: skipy
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 06:05 AM

http://www.amazon.co.uk/EW-Link-FANS-USB-LAPTOP-COOLER/dp/B000O5U6SC
Skipy

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 06:19 AM

Fred, I've been noticing lots of ads for these devices too.

I can only speak from my experience, but I don't think using a laptop at a table is a problem - because air can circulate underneath then. However, people like my kids really do use 'em as LAPtops, and also dump them on the living room carpet or the sofa while powered up.I reckon that was the reason for the hard disk on my daughter's laptop failing prematurely (under warranty thank God, but she lost loads of files).

Note I said "hard disk" not "processor" because after all a hard disk is an electromechanical device and is more likely to go *phut* than a processor.

I reckon that these coolers are a bit pointless if you sit at a desk and if you aren't playing Doom or something with 50 other gamers on an overclocked laptop.

Whether I would be able to persuade my kids to bother to use one of these coolers while they are lounging on a bed or a sofa is also a moot point - after all there is always the Bank of Mum and Dad when things go wrong!

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: Carol
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 06:26 AM

I'hve just invested in a lap top 'rest' from Betterware I think cost about £8 - you can angle the laptop which gives it air circulation underneath (but not a fan)and also makes it easier to type.

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 07:12 AM

I used mine for awhile on an old farmhouse kitchen table where the planked surface had warped with age, meaning that in some places it was almost touching the underside of my machine. This worried me for the same reasons as you, because its fan air-intake was underneath.

I simply went to the hardware shop and bought a packet of those stick-on rubber "feet" (you can also get them in felt) which are meant for protecting wooden floors from furniture legs, and stuck one on the bottom at each corner - though of course you have to be careful not to block off any air vents. This raised the puter high enough to allow good circulation and didn't mean having to fuss with any additional piece of equipment. I've been perfectly happy with this solution and it's a LOT cheaper than buying a fan!

The point about keeping it on a hard surface is a good one - laps, carpets and anything else that's soft or uneven (not to mention dusty) is bound to reduce the air space beneath and cause problems.

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 07:26 AM

when I had a laptop I was worried that it warmed the surface of my Great-Aunt's old table, so always used it on one of those heat-proof glass trays meant to be used under hot dishes. The tray has small rubber legs & it protected the surface of the table. I dunno if it extended the life of the laptop.

sandra

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: GUEST,Dazbo at work
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 07:35 AM

In my last job we had to use lap tops all day. One of my colleague's lap tops kept crashing on a regular basis until he got the desk fan blowing on it all the time (even though it was already on one of those tilted holders to make it easier to type). This solved his problem but I don't know if it shortens its lifespan. The other three of us who used the same model never had any problems.

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: peregrina
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 08:25 AM

My previous laptop did run into serious logic board problems very soon after I had started using it off its stand, on sofa cushions, my knees, etc. I learned that overheating had accelerated an underlying potential fault. So it's a real issue as far as I can see, but there are lots of simple mechanical ways to enhance cooling as everyone above has found. (My chosen solution is the beautiful transparent griffin i-curve stand used with a separate more ergonomic keyboard, but those choices are to enhance comfort of use as well as ventilation).

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:34 AM

Whether or not it is actually true, consider that heat is the enemy of many components as well as reducing conductivity. Anything which can keep the unit running cooler will help it run better. I don't know about lasting longer. It would almost certainly help battery life.

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:48 AM

My laptop seems (subjectively) to run cooler since I got one of the stands like what Carol mentioned...looks like this. It is a lot cheaper fix than the ones that have built-in fans. Since the back bumps are bigger than the front ones, it also angles the laptop for easier typing.

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:59 AM

I must say over the years I've been amazed at the amount of heat pumped out by all sorts of modern consumer kit.

F'rinstance, has anybody noticed how hot some of those little mains power supplies for USB hubs, scanners, speakers etc. become? I'm sure they aren't safe.

When you think of the number of power transistors, chips, etc., all jammed into tiny little plastic boxes with inadequate cooling, it's a miracle any modern electronic item works - and lots of them don't after a couple of years.

I will now tickle the crystal on my wireless and try & get the news from 2LO London, harrumph harrumph.

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 11:32 AM

Heat is a problem for any computer, and is especially of concern for laptops. With lots of components jammed into a very tight space, the potential for producing harmful temperatures is quite high.

Many earlier laptops warned about sustained use on your lap due to the possibility of bodily harm to the user, and at least a few cases of significant injuries (burns) have been documented. The hazard is particularly acute for persons with "impaired circulation" (e.g. diabetics) and for others in circumstances where restricted motion may cause reduction in normal circulation and less likelihood of noticing "hot spots" on the body (e.g. long airplane flights).

Laptops quite recently included warnings about leaving them running while unattended due to the possibility of setting things on fire, and most still warn about "covering them" with loose papers and such while on. Newer models usually are less likely to overheat, but can still get "quite warm" in operation.

Hard drives can be subject to early failure if overheated; but most early failures in hard drives are more likely due to rough handling. Abrupt movement of the drive during a read/write can easily cause some damage. Any violent movement while the disks are spinning can cause very high stresses and can be potentially damaging. Both terms, "abrupt" and "violent" are relative, and it's hard to know what may be harmful; but it should be considered that dropping a hard object less than ONE INCH onto a hard surface can easily produce "100 g" acceleration (or more), and shock levels approaching 1,000 g/sec.

The components generally considered most susceptible to heat failure are probably the processor (CPU), graphics cards/modules, and I/O modules such as Firewire or Ethernet port interfaces. USB ports, since they can supply power to attached devices, can easily be "burned out" if multiple devices, or ones with higher power requirements, are left attached.

Processor cooling, since it's so critical, is generally addressed agressively, and most computers now include carefully designed coolers, with sensors to detect and control temperature and to shut down the processor if overheating is detected. (Many computers still in use may lack the shutdown devices.) Newer laptops also use different processors designed to produce less heat (often with somewhat lesser performance) than the ones used in desktop computers.

While it's fairly rare for laptops to include what the gamers consider "super graphics cards," the ones commonly used do generate a lot of heat, and some games attempt, with some success, to "overclock" (maybe "overwork" is the better term) the graphics cards. In a laptop, if you burn out the graphics module - or anything else - you replace the laptop unless identical-to-original replacement/replaceable components can be found. In a desktop more than five or so years old, you probably cannot find a direct replacement graphics card, and even if the card you use has very good cooler(s) - often including a dedicated fan - the computer case may not have been designed to handle the amount of heat generated by the popular newer graphics cards, and premature re-failure may be expected.

For laptops, about the only useful advice that can be given is that anything that is uncomfortably hot to touch probably is too hot to run. You should do something about it. Cooler is better, and will help to keep the device running longer before senescence sets in.

Conversely, if it doesn't feel hot, you probably have little reason for serious concern; but "cooler is better." Using "energy management" features (auto sleep/standby/shutdown) is probably good, if your laptop has them.

And also remember that laptops don't have handles on them, intentionally, because a handle could permit/encourage even rougher treatment. Be gentle with them.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 12:35 PM

I find that half a pint of Marble bitter poured down the back has an amazing effect.

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: John J
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 12:48 PM

Only a half?

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 01:34 PM

Your back, the computer's back, or the back of your throat?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 01:35 PM

Good point John! In a classic double blind testing it was a close call between 0.48 and 0.52.

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: Irene M
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 02:22 PM

I am sure the destruction book for this Dell, warns one not to use the laptop on a soft surface, like a bed, cushion, etc in case of overheating or combustion. The table top is certainly warm after computer use.

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 03:25 AM

I am surprised that this thread has taken so long to turn erotic.

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 09:05 AM

LOL, Les!

One other thing to bear in mind (learned this one by experience only last night, and was glad to have been reading this thread):

If you're going to burn CDs it's probably a better idea to do it early on in your work session, while your laptop is still relatively cool. After using mine all day I then burned a CD in it, which it obligingly did for me, but then its little fan started huffing and puffing (figuratively speaking) and it froze. Since it's new and has a good battery (so I couldn't just unplug it to turn it off - no possibiity of shutting down properly), I had to take the battery out.

As I was doing this I noticed that the bottom felt "uncomfortably hot to touch" and thought of the warnings above by John in K.

In future I will remember never to use it for long all-day sessions without breaks, to switch off rather than put to sleep, and ESPECIALLY never to ask it to burn a CD when it's probably already too hot from long use.

So thanks for the thread, all!

Subject: RE: Tech: Overheated laptops
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 12:36 AM

Bonnie -

Most laptops do have an "ON" or "WAKEUP" button that actually will shut down when on battery power if you press and hold the button down for a few seconds.

Even on most desktops the "switch" is not directly connected to the power circuit, but just sends a message to the innards to tell it to turn everything on/off¹. Pressing the button on most desktops may or may not start a "normal shutdown" but if you hold it down it will do a "panic shutdown" without saving everything and doing all the normal "slow coast to a stop" stuff.

¹ Since the "power switch" doesn't actually disconnect the computer from the power input, it is recommended that the power cord be disconnected, and usually for laptops that the battery be removed, before opening up the case and poking around inside. If left connected, a stray transient can cause an attempt to start things up while your fingers are still in there, and some of those 'lectrons can nip at ya and/or chew up pieces of the hardware.

John