Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Nov 17 - 08:37 PM

Thanks Ian: better link than mine!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Nov 17 - 11:44 AM

Has anyone got any suggestions as to the best way to make tunes available on websites.

HTML5 handles them natively, but iPhones need a little help (don't ya just love that infalability! Myth, that is.) Or dd I mean obscure help?

FWIW if you need my take on audio playing on a website - it involves JavaScript. I can't remember what I did off hand but the simplified version is used on songs.mister.red
There is one I wrote about Caggy Jones - famed for using horses in the black country up to at least mid 1970s. I will re-visit i and see if it is up to snuff.

PM me and start a conversation..........

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 07:13 AM

The Boys that Broke the Ground has now been added to the 'Songs of the Inland Waterways' website. It's a lovely song.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 17 Nov 17 - 06:32 AM

Link didn't work for me (Error 404) but I found it by searching the site.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 16 Nov 17 - 08:38 PM

As I just posted in the navvies song thread, I heard Brian McNeill do his song about the Forth and Clyde Canal, correct title "The Boys Who Broke the Ground" tonight at a folk club where he was guest. Unfortunately the YouTube of it is "video not available" but the lyrics were posted in another Mudcat thread some years back: The Boys who Broke the Ground

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 14 Nov 17 - 09:17 AM

Having recently added a large number of Johnny Handle songs to the Songs of the Inland Waterways website (some are still awaiting tunes from Johnny), he informed me yesterday that he is hoping to send me some canal tunes as well. I have a list of 15 that he has composed.

Johnny Handle is such a wonderful man (read his recent biography if you are unfamiliar with all that he has done) that I feel that I would now like to include these tunes on the website (if and when he sends them).

Has anyone got any suggestions as to the best way to make tunes available on websites. I have programs which can handle abc files but they are a few years old. Is there anything new that is recommended? Would downloadable pdfs be better?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 02:58 PM

Hello it's me again - this time with cookie reinstated thanks to Joe's help. Now I'll be able to spot when there are more postings.

I think I must have neglected the 'Songs of the Inland Waterways' site in the last year or so as I now have a backlog of songs to add. 'Following Olga to Lynn' will be coming soon.

Subject: RE: . Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 06:58 AM

Thanks Freddy,

Life's complicated enough so I'm going to stick to British waterway/canal songs for the 'Songs of the Inland Waterways' website. It does what it says on the tin.

No tunes for me and nothing American. No offence intended to USA citizens (bar one). I'd love to see DJ Trump on the back of a narrowboat (temporarily).

Subject: Waterway Songs v Waterway Tunes
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 06:38 AM

Waterway Songs v Waterway Tunes

btw there is an alternative thread for tunes(& songs)

/mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=144798#3348229?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 05:35 AM

Thanks to previous two posters for pointing me in the direction of some songs I need to track down.

I only had two of those mentioned already on the site :

On the Cut

Captains of the Waterways

So I'll be hunting down the rest as soon as I've a spare moment.

Ian

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 04:52 AM

Mark Dowding sings Following Olga to Lynn on his CD Brown Photographs

I help crew a tank barge, Lizzie's her name,
Following Enid, pulled by a stout chain

MP3 clip here - http://www.markdowding.co.uk/Following%20Olga.MP3

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Nov 17 - 03:34 AM

I have quite a few recordings waiting for videos to put on:

I recorded Jim Mageean singing "Captains of the Waterways", but it was croweded and he has a powerful voice.

His worship & the pig sing a song "On the Cut"

the 'Ock 'n Dough Band sing - "Don't keep the company Waiting"

Pumpkin Pie "Cotswold Canal Song"

"Waterman" sung by Dennis Geere - I can't remember recording it or who he was.

"Bolinder" was composed to the rhythm of the eponymous engine. I have even danced to the tune. A rather nice tune it is. Tom owns a tanker narrowboat with such propulsion - emphasis on the pulse!

And my favourite is "Canal en Octobre" - I got permission from Frederic Paris to use it. I suspect it is just waiting for someone to put lyrics to it.

and a list I found on an ABC site (no record of where)

Ardrossan Canal.abc
BallyCanally.abc
BargeInn.abc
CaledoneonCanal.abc
DARKEYED canaller.abc
ErieCanal Stick Dance.abc
FarmingtonCanalSong.abc
GrandCanal.abc
PaddyOnTheCanal.abc
Raging Canal.abc

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 08 Nov 17 - 03:17 PM

The Boatmans Song by Mike Donald (mentioned in a previous post) has now been transcribed for the Songs of the Inland Waterways website.

It was found on an lp entitled 'North by North East'.

If there are any more songs about the British Waterways out there I'd be pleased to hear about them.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 05 Nov 17 - 06:02 PM

I look forward to hearing these tracks when my copy of the CD arrives.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 Nov 17 - 12:55 PM

**how can a tune be about the waterways**

Easily. There are 2 examples on our new album.
A Dead Bod: Songs of the Humber Waterways.

'Sobriety on the Humber' is a melodic interpretation of.....well, you can read the notes on the website. It involves Chris Sherburn skippering a Humber keel in a force 8 with passengers on board. By Bill Sowerby, it's also an absolutely cracking tune played on mandolin and whistle.

'The Flying Lock key' is also a melodic interpretation of an outing on a narrow boat. I think you can guess what it depicts. By Dave Hill, it is also a great tune played by Dave on accordeon.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 05 Nov 17 - 11:46 AM

No probs Henry. In truth I think I've been neglecting the site recently.

Ian

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 05 Nov 17 - 06:19 AM

Ian, It's a great collection. I didn't mean to prompt you into action!

Regards, Henry Peacock

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 05 Nov 17 - 05:38 AM

To henryp

At the moment I deliberately haven't included any Mikron songs. I persuaded myself that they might not like them disseminated via my website and haven't bothered to seek the necessary permission. In truth I might have just viewed their inclusion as 'rather a lot of work'. When I started the site I still had a full time job and spare time was short but for the last few years I haven't.

Shamefully, I will contact them in the next few days and see what their view is. I'm a great fan of the Mikron Theatre Company and saw them just a few weeks ago. Highly recommended.

To Mr Red

Leaving aside the fact that the site is 'songs' of the waterways and much as I am a fan (dreadful word) of Tom Kitching, I have a slight problem about including tunes. First of all, how to do it and secondly, how can a tune be about the waterways rather than just given a waterway related titled? If the tune you mention contains the actual sound of a Bolinder then I can see that overcoming my objection. I think I might have revealed my musical illiteracy here.

Thanks for the contributions and I'll be looking at your videos Mr Red.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Nov 17 - 04:40 AM

tune - Bolinder - written by Tom Kitching - he guested on the CD Red House (Vicki Swan & Jonny Dyer)
I have the CD
There are other tunes - some original in my videos of canal restoration. One song - Legging Boats.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 04 Nov 17 - 04:21 PM

I can't recognise any songs from Mikron Theatre Company, who still travel the waterways. They released the following LPs;

Last Run - Songs Of The Canals & Waterways Of Great Britain - PBR 5001 1977
I'd Go Back Tomorrow ALLEMANDE - ALP1001 1979
Mud In Your Eye MIKRON - MTC1 1981

Jim Woodland Mkron Songs

These two CDs are now available;

Ruby Recording CD A sparkling collection of songs recorded live at Marsden Mechanics as part of our ruby celebrations.

Live at Standedge CD We brought together cast members from five years of Mikron for this vibrant and beautifully orchestrated collection of songs.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 04 Nov 17 - 03:06 PM

Please ignore the previous request.

I have a copy of the lp on order from the Discogs website.

In a thread related to Mike Donald there was mention of his lps on sale on eBay at very high prices. The prices on Discogs seem very reasonable in comparison.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 04 Nov 17 - 12:33 PM

Does anyone have a recording or the lyrics of these two songs by the late Mike Donald?

The Boatman's Song
Duke's Level

They were on an lp entitled 'North by North East'.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Nov 17 - 12:18 PM

Thanks for the updates.

Charlie Ipcar

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 04 Nov 17 - 12:03 PM

Thanks Freddy
I think you are right about the 'wide' mills and 'industry's changed'. Thanks for taking the trouble to listen and report these corrections. When transcribing a song it is very easy to get an idea of what you think it is (or what you think it should be) into your head and then you can't see the (correct) alternative. Fresh ears have certainly helped in this case.

With regard to the 'boat names' Steve, I'll make further investigations along the line you suggest. I originally thought that these might be names of mills - as they 'still remain' and boats are unlikely to have done so, unless they are preserved by some organisation or loving owner. A preliminary search for mills in Manchester with these names was fruitless. The search continues - thanks all.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 04 Nov 17 - 10:12 AM

Ian
If you know which canal they plied on and the nearest large town or city these craft had to be registered and there are in many places surviving registers. For instance I've just been through 3 of these dating from about 1880 to 1900 and there are lots more in our local archives 'The Hull History Centre' They are titled 'Hull and Goole Canal Boats' They give all sorts of info about owners, where and when built, crews, sales, scrapping, dimensions etc, but maddeningly for me they do not state the one piece of information I require, what sort of craft, sloop, keel, billyboy, etc.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 04 Nov 17 - 05:29 AM

I wondered if it was

So wide the mills
Where worked the looms

other options...
And industry's changed     ?
And industry's change     ?

I think it is
The old man retired,

I thought he was singing about the tiller but the name of a boat would fit the context better. Castlefield could be talking about the area or a boat but not Mary Grey ?.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 04 Nov 17 - 04:28 AM

To heriz : Waterways song link

To anyone else : There's a line in the second verse of this song which I just can't catch to transcribe. It's marked with a ? and the recording (with interesting historic visuals) is available at the bottom of the above (linked) page. Any suggestions?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 03 Nov 17 - 05:59 PM

Second pressing in progress. Shouldn't take long.
Thanks for this.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 03 Nov 17 - 05:20 PM

Hi Steve

I've made a link between the two websites - the Spare Hands site can be accessed by clicking on the CD image or name on the following page :

http://www.waterwaysongs.co.uk/Ref_Canal_Songs_2.htm

I'll have a closer look at the information you have about Gezz Overington songs asap.

I've now successfully ordered a CD after a minor hiccup so I hope there is going to be a second pressing.

Regards
Ian

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 03 Nov 17 - 04:44 PM

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the info which I'll add asap.

As for Waterways song, the page on my site is nearing completion.

There are just a few words I haven't been able to transcribe yet but I'm working on it.

I'm thinking that the Castlefield, Mary Grey and Atilla are names of narrowboats. Can anyone confirm this?

Ian

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 03 Nov 17 - 03:44 PM

Hi Ian
Spare Hands latest album is out. The first pressing already sold out.

A Dead Bod: Songs of the Humber Waterways. There are 3 Gezz Overington songs on it plus some of our own and a few traditional songs.

The texts and notes to the songs are all on our website which you might like to link up to. I'll post the URL when I just check I've got it right, but you can easily Google it just by putting in 'Spare Hands Dead Bod'.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 03 Nov 17 - 03:43 PM

Thanks 'Freddy'.

You certainly seem to be able to find things on t'internet. I suppose I was being a bit idle in not starting a search myself whilst hoping for a few extra clues.

The YouTube video is nice and clear and I should be able to transcribe the words from it. I've just recently been putting all of Johnny Handle's canal songs on the 'Songs of the Inland Waterways' website and have just one more left to do so it should appear soon.

It's strange that the video has never turned up before when I searched for waterway songs.

Ian

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 03 Nov 17 - 01:56 PM

hero's, Ian, is this any good for transcribing

Waterways
"Written and sung by the late Vincent Dunn with the Manchester folk band Rum All In, which featured actor John Henshaw and Ged Collins, David King, Gerard Gyves and Bernard Wilson. Waterways is about the history of the canals around Manchester and Salford. The band was formed in the 1980's"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pk17dS7cJK0?

~~~~~~~
another few Rum All In tracks on yt. No waterway songs though
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=%20By%20Rum%20All%20In%20-%20thefirefire&sm=3?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 03 Nov 17 - 12:47 PM

Hi heriz
Do you have any parts of the song? When were the band 'Rum All in' active? I've lived near Manchester for many years but haven't heard of them.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,heriz
Date: 03 Nov 17 - 11:48 AM

Does anyone have the words to a canal song 'Waterways' by Vincent Dunn
and Manchester folk band 'Rum All In'.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 07 May 17 - 07:26 PM

Thanks Keberoxu -- I've only heard it sung a couple of times, but found it quite haunting -- - must seek it out!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 07 May 17 - 04:09 PM

Gallus Moll, that may be a Stan Rogers song,
and the lyrics have been at Mudcat since February 1997
-- a Mudcat search brought them up.
Thread 703, MessageID 2012.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 07 May 17 - 03:35 PM

I don't visit this site much these days so it was fortuitous that I came across keberoxu's detailed post in reply to a six year old thread. Thanks for the posting keberoxu. I think I might have bought the Highland Voyage CD at sometime so I'll try to find it - or perhaps attempt to buy a copy.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 07 May 17 - 03:34 PM

There's another, contemporary. song featuring a canal, probably not an inland one tho- - about a sailor going through the locks before heading off round the world again, adventuring, and kinda patronising the lock keeper for his 'tame' life -- but of the two, the lock keeper is the contented one -- is it called Lock Keeper?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 07 May 17 - 03:31 PM

I vaguely recall music being used during The Maggie film -- - - can't remember what!
Somewhere I have a vinyl album of A Highland Voyage, and I have also seen a (bbc?) tv film of it at least twice -- - probably available as a video? (lots of other very funny songs on it- - most set to existing fiddle etc tunes)
- There have also been some more recent live performances of A Highland Voyage at - I think - The Fringe and the like- alas I've not managed to see these.
Every series of Para Handy has been soooo funny - sadly I believe the earliest ones featuring Duncan McRae have probably not been kept. But the others are definitely worth seeking out. used to be on video so I hope available as dvd now?
It is hard to decide whish is funniest episode - two that have me rolling on the floor are the one where the policeman is trying to guard the cask of whisky on one of the piers on Arran.
The other I love is when they take - Sunny Jim? - to A&E at the Arran cottage hospital on a bogie which has no brakes-- so when they start descending the hill road- - -- - - -hahahaha!
It is work purchasing Neil Munro's Para Handy book - there is a Neil Munro society based in Inveraray.
(He also wrote other excellent literature, not just humour!_

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 May 17 - 12:11 PM

With a copy of the "Highland Voyage" compact disc in hand, and its info booklet, some information can be reported.

Curiously, more than one of the Highland Voyage / Clyde Puffer / Para Handy people passed away rather soon after these recordings were made...but then, some of them were well up in years at that point.

"All the songs were written by Alex Mackenzie," says page two of the CD booklet. In fact actor Mackenzie was born in 1885 and died in 1965. The copyright date for the original record, listed on the compact disc, is 1963. Alex Mackenzie was one of the lead actors in "The Maggie," a feature film also distributed and released as "High and Dry." That film is an Ealing Studio film and goes back to the early 1950's. Duncan MacRae's dates are 1905 - 1967.

The CD booklet notes are written by Ken Andrew and dated 2003. Andrew remarks on the final page:
"It's a sobering thought that I am probably the only person still around who was present at these sessions." From his detailed descriptions it may be guessed that he was part of the production team, as he describes the sound effects and the studio equipment.

On the first page of the notes:
"The album...is a musical journey aboard a puffer with characters loosely based on those in Neil Munro's Para Handy stories. The album was the brainchild of the late Douglas Gray, the founder and managing director of Park Film Studios in Glasgow, and the driving force behind its subsidiary company, Scottish records, a record label whose catalogue boasts a collection of unique recordings by world-famous Scottish performers, writers, and musicians."

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 02:50 PM

Sorry, I have no knowledge of Alex MacKenzie. A Google search came up with a number of possibilities, at least one, sadly, deceased.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Bob Orrell to Guest and Ian Hendrie
Date: 03 Dec 10 - 09:31 AM

Many thanks for your reply to enquiry about composer of the Crinan Canal song. Next question! I need permission of the composer to use a few lines from the song in a book I'm working on. By any miracle have you any idea where Alex MacKenzie might be reached? I have written twice to the publishers of the LP/CD 'Highland Voyage' asking for information about the composer but not had a reply.

Regards

Bob Orrell

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 04:16 PM

I now believe 'The Crinan Canal' song to have been written by Alex Mackenzie who wrote a number of songs for the Para Handy crew. They featured on an lp called 'Highland Voyage' which is now released as a CD.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 11:55 AM

Oops - that last guest was me!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 11:54 AM

Hi

Sorry, Bob I don't know the composer of 'The Crinan Canal Song' but I will try to find out so that I can give them due credit on my web-site. If you find out perhaps you could let me know. I think it's on a CD which may have something to do with the Para Handy TV series but a quick Google didn't find it. I'll try again when I've kicked a few more brain cells into action.

Hi Desi, Thanks for info about Odebury Mon which I have tried to look at on YouTube but it won't go further than the first 20secs with me. I'll have another try later. I did also spot 'The Cut Diggers' by Billy and Lozz and listened to it on YouTube but the dialect is so strong I don't think I've much chance of transcribing it by ear. I presume it is canal related. Any help you can give me with the lyrics/music/chords for these songs would be very welcome. I'll e-mail you. Thanks for your offer.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 07:19 AM

There's a very popular song here in The Black country written by a friend of mine Billy Spakemon, who performs as the duo Billy & Lozz, it's called odebury Mon (Oldbury Man) put the name and Title in You Tube to hear it. It's usually done in open tuning, though I do a version in standard tuning. If you like it and want my chords I'll gladly type them out for you, just mail me on [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 06:14 AM

I'm trying to trace the composer/copyright owner of the Crinal Canal Song - The Crinan Canal for me etc. Can anyone help.

Bob Orrell

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 06:42 PM

I already have 'Navigator' on the web-site but thanks anyway.

I also have a few versions of 'Cruise of the Calabar' but would welcome any others, particularly if they differ significantly from those which I already have.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: British Canal/Waterway Songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:54 PM

I believe there are English variants of the 'Cruise of the Calabar' family of songs. Ray Padgett recently recorded a Sheffield version sung locally in the tradition. There are various broadsides on the same theme of the daft description of a canal boat trip treating it as though it was an epic sea journey.