Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas

Subject: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: GUEST,jennifer
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 06:53 AM

Hi there

Can I ask a big favour of the mudcat please? We have no internet at home temporarily or I would spend some time searching for this myself... I am stuck in the public library with a toddler...

I am doing a carols spot to the public in an early Georgian house, with some friends and they have suggested in between the songs we might do some hurdy gurdy and recorder tunes, so can anyone think of (preferably)Christmas tunes from the right period that we could try? And know where I can get the dots or listen online?

I would be very grateful!

thanks so much
Jennifer

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: IanC
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 07:26 AM

Can you give a date for your house? The Georgian period lasted a long time.

Anything by the Wesleys would probably be suitable and a number of the traditional carols like "God Rest Ye Merry" and the original version of "Deck The Halls" (not the sanitised version people sing now).

Most of the medieval carols were given new tunes in the 20th Century by people like Elizabeth Poston, but some (like "Down In Yon Forest") were still being sung when Vaughan Williams collected them (no guarantee the tune was original, but you'd be surprised).

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: GUEST,BobL
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 07:56 AM

Anything labelled "West Gallery" should do. The West Gallery Music Association published a carol book which might help, if you are OK with straighforward (if rather florid at times) 4-part harmony. Perhaps the library can lay their hands on a copy.

Whereabouts are you, geographically?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: sian, west wales
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 08:28 AM

Ian, just curious about what you mean by "the original version of Deck the Halls". Are you referring to the Mrs Opie words? The tune, Nos Galan (sometimes in English collections 'Nos Galen') is an old Welsh National Air but, if you're being true to the tradition, there are no 'original' words. It's a harp tune to which the Welsh would sing penillion - the trick being to sing whatever verses of appropriate metre and subjects the singer could come up with. The tune would certainly be old enough, but not Opie's words, if jennifer is looking for early Georgian. (And, of course, 'Deck the Halls' are latter half of the 19th century so not applicable.)

Anyway, it would 'work' if you, jennifer, are looking for instrumental pieces although I don't know how well known it would be in households without a Welsh connection (which would include houses visited by Welsh itinerant musicians).

"God rest ye merry g's" would sound nice, as Ian says. "I saw three ships" too perhaps?

sian

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: IanC
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 08:43 AM

By "original" I meant the words commonly used in the 18th Century.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: masato sakurai
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 09:07 AM

This is a Victorian book, but I hope it may help.

H. R. Bramley and John Stainer's Christmas Carols New and Old [1871].

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 09:46 AM

Here's a link to West Gallery resources which gives sources and prices for a lot of books, also links for internet sources:

English West Gallery Music

Mick

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: sian, west wales
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 09:59 AM

Could you give a couple of lines, Ian?

sian

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: GUEST,maire-aine
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:12 AM

The long dance Sir Roger de Coverl(e)y comes to mind. It's mid 1600s.

M

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: IanC
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:36 AM

Sian

With apologies.

Looks like I'm the victim of a concatenation of info on an otherwise fairly reliable internet site.

Had a look at a number of docs and it appears as though the words I have might be from the 1881 printing. Not much use for Georgian, as you surmised (unless it's George V / VI).

:-(
Ian

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: GUEST,jennifer (back in the library again)
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:45 AM

It's Dr Johnson's house in Lichfield. Thanks for the suggestions! It would be nice to be as appropriate as possible but I think there may be a bit of cheating allowed...

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: GUEST,Vixen, cookieless at work
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:14 PM

Wow--
for a minute I thought it was Georgia as in US or the old USSR.

Once I got into the right country, I was wondering *which* George?

The first one that came to my mind was III, but that's later than the 1600's. I don't know enough about English history to guess at I or II, and didn't a George run off with an American divorcee in the 20th c.?

I'm hopelessly confused, I realize, and ignorant to boot, but now I'd really like to know what time period we're looking at here.

Thanks!

V (befuddled...)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: IanC
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:18 PM

V ...

HOUSE OF HANOVER (Georgian)      
George I 1714-1727
George II 1727-1760
George III 1760-1820
George IV 1820-1830

HOUSE OF WINDSOR         
George V 1910-1936
George VI 1936-1952

Edward VIII (1936-1936) married the divorcee and abdicated.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: Vixen
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:35 PM

4 minutes...that's gotta be a record!

Thanks Ian!

V

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 05:11 PM

Paging through the "Oxford Book of Carols" turned up quite a selection of carols sung in England in the 1700s and earlier. A few:

The praise of Christmas- In Pepys, some verses by Durfey.
God rest you merry, gentlemen
The seven joys
I saw three ships
Boar's head carol
Sir Christmas
Coventry carol (many, like the Wexford, Hereford,Sussex, etc., reached their printed form or were 'discovered' in the 18th c., it is doubtful that inhabitants of a named house would have sung any of them).
The first nowell
While shepherds watched
etc.

This readily obtained book is a good source; the notes help separate the reconstituted old, old but not known to the general public, from those that would have been well-known and sung in early Georgian times.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: carols/tunes for a Georgian christmas
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 02:11 PM

The journal of Sir Walter Scott for Xmas 1830 says he spent the day with the family of Sir John Pringle, with "very pleasant musick by the Miss Pringles". There are a few tunes written or plagiarized by Nathaniel Gow for the Pringle family.

But since Scott was tone-deaf his recommendation wasn't worth that much, and I think that was just into the reign of William "Who?" the IV.

The best source would be period newspapers. There will be adverts for public celebrations giving very detailed programmes of what music was to be played.

The University of Bath has a good indexed newspaper archive on the web for Bath in that period.