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The Future of Folk Clubs

The Villan 22 Nov 07 - 02:53 AM
Folkiedave 21 Nov 07 - 06:01 PM
Folkiedave 21 Nov 07 - 05:59 PM
Lowden Jameswright 21 Nov 07 - 02:32 PM
RoyH (Burl) 21 Nov 07 - 12:09 PM
Folkiedave 21 Nov 07 - 09:35 AM
The Sandman 21 Nov 07 - 07:52 AM
TheSnail 21 Nov 07 - 07:42 AM
Folkiedave 21 Nov 07 - 07:15 AM
TheSnail 21 Nov 07 - 06:19 AM
Folkiedave 21 Nov 07 - 05:23 AM
Fidjit 21 Nov 07 - 04:54 AM
Folkiedave 21 Nov 07 - 03:21 AM
Brendy 20 Nov 07 - 08:41 PM
GUEST,mg 20 Nov 07 - 08:17 PM
Brendy 20 Nov 07 - 08:11 PM
Folkiedave 20 Nov 07 - 07:11 PM
Brendy 20 Nov 07 - 06:02 PM
Folkiedave 20 Nov 07 - 05:53 PM
Les in Chorlton 20 Nov 07 - 05:06 PM
Fidjit 20 Nov 07 - 04:38 PM
greg stephens 20 Nov 07 - 03:20 PM
Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive) 20 Nov 07 - 03:13 PM
Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive) 20 Nov 07 - 03:12 PM
Les in Chorlton 20 Nov 07 - 02:58 PM
TheSnail 20 Nov 07 - 02:10 PM
Banjiman 20 Nov 07 - 01:05 PM
Brendy 20 Nov 07 - 12:59 PM
Banjiman 20 Nov 07 - 12:54 PM
synbyn 20 Nov 07 - 12:38 PM
Richard Bridge 20 Nov 07 - 12:24 PM
Brendy 20 Nov 07 - 12:14 PM
Richard Bridge 20 Nov 07 - 12:11 PM
Brendy 20 Nov 07 - 11:53 AM
The Sandman 20 Nov 07 - 11:41 AM
treewind 20 Nov 07 - 11:27 AM
Banjiman 20 Nov 07 - 10:37 AM
Les in Chorlton 20 Nov 07 - 10:31 AM
Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive) 20 Nov 07 - 10:07 AM
Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive) 20 Nov 07 - 10:06 AM
greg stephens 20 Nov 07 - 10:03 AM
Banjiman 20 Nov 07 - 09:56 AM
Les in Chorlton 20 Nov 07 - 09:55 AM
Richard Bridge 20 Nov 07 - 09:33 AM
Brendy 20 Nov 07 - 09:03 AM
Les in Chorlton 20 Nov 07 - 06:34 AM
Banjiman 20 Nov 07 - 04:53 AM
Folkiedave 20 Nov 07 - 04:26 AM
Banjiman 20 Nov 07 - 04:19 AM
greg stephens 20 Nov 07 - 04:18 AM
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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: The Villan
Date: 22 Nov 07 - 02:53 AM

As long as they don't get MON


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 06:01 PM

My opinion on Robson is that he would make a good next England manager - written after the loss to Croatia!! That way Kevin would have to let him go!!

Not a great fan.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 05:59 PM

Yes and I have been there a time or two. There is even a bus as I remember so it will be free for me to travel there!!


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 02:32 PM

"Let me make it plain that if there were a decent folk club in Sheffield booking decent guests or with decent residents then I would be happy to go" (Hi FolkieDave)

Wortley Folk at the Black Bull (3rd Saturday)

PS - Robson - should he stay or should he go?


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 12:09 PM

Greetings Dave, may I send you a cd?


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 09:35 AM

Indeed Dick and many is the good night I have had there too. The Grapes had two or three clubs at one time. There was also the legendary Highcliffe where I saw Planxty and Billy Connolly with the Humblebums and to be honest many more. There was a club up at the Cross Scythes at Dore which used to be full of the students from the domestic science college and another at Wentworth College with a similar attraction. Then there was that all female college in Derbyshire. But I digress.

I didn't really move to Sheffield until the very late sixties having spent my "formative" folk years first in Manchester and then in Hull.

Unfortunately Dick I am up to the eyeballs at the moment - the problem is that we know what is needed, venue, guest, artists, etc. but we have no-one to do it. Shame but there you are.

And anyway I have had enough of that over the past 30 years or so. Radio show comes first until I get that right.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 07:52 AM

Well there used to be lots of good folkclubs in sheffield,Iplayed at the HEFTS AND BLADES,and had a fullhouse at the GRAPES,must have played there four times at least.
what is needed is a dedicated organiser,and a group of good singers who enjoy each others company ,start off as a singers club and book guests as and when you can afford book guests,DAVE yousound like just the man.[you never know you might sell afew books too]and you could book those people who lift your heart.DickMiles


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 07:42 AM

Thanks Dave. I hope someone gets a traditional club going in Sheffield. It ought to be fertile ground.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 07:15 AM

Point taken Snail.

What I think I originally said when this discussion started on other thread(s) was that I used to go to clubs and stopped because I never saw anyone my lifted my heart.

I acknowledge the work that the better clubs do and am happy to do so.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 06:19 AM

Folkiedave

I find it remarkable that Lewes - supports two folk clubs both of which look pretty decent to me - whereas Sheffield can't even support one.

It can't be the lack of organisers - we have loads of them or lack of young people - we have loads of them too. Plenty of good sessions I suppose is the problem - people go there and can get a good fix of the music they love.


There are more sessions around here than you can shake a fiddle bow at, some of them, as I have said, run by residents of one or the other Lewes club. I'm not sure if the connection has been made, but Will Duke and Dan Quinn that Greg so rightly praises are residents (along with Vic and Tina Smith) of the Royal Oak club. Will runs one of the oldest sessions, originally started by Vic Gammon. They don't seem to detract from the success of the clubs.

Take a look at the play list and you can see where I am coming from.

It's a superb list Dave and we've booked quite a lot of the people on it as have the Royal Oak, not to mention the Seaford and Horsham clubs.
The damn good floor singers and damn good professionals are still out there. I can't help you with your problems in Sheffield except to say that, yes, it is too much for one person and you do need a venue.
But please, can you stop telling the World that folk clubs are nothing but diary singers and guitar twiddlers?


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 05:23 AM

Hi Chas, indeed it would - and I have the three disc set that Alan Day did too.

Look out for ore concertina music!!

Dave


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Fidjit
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 04:54 AM

Know the feeling Dave.
Don't know how I used to hold a full time job and do what I'm still doing now. Time seems to fly by. Perhaps I'm moving in slow motion to every thing else.

Found this for you

modern concertia playing

might suit you program list.

Chas


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Nov 07 - 03:21 AM

Sorry Brendy - I might not have made it clear enough - loads of music in "central" Sheffield - much of it high quality - just that there is no "traditional" folk club.

I'd like one, true, how much I could support it nowadays I am not sure, now I am retired I am busier than ever.

I think your story of reviving shows the hard work involved and there is not doubt that getting a club going in Sheffield would require all those things. Someone tried it a while ago but it was too much for one. Then the venue closed.

And we do have song carriers locally (still) and the carols and so on.

And now a radio programme at last. And I must get on a prepare this weeks!!!!


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 08:41 PM

I was part of a team that took over the running of the lowest performing pub in a grotty old Irish theme pub, a good few years back.
We had a good bar manager, an excellent head chef, friendly and enthusiastic staff, and I took care of the website, the MP3 collection, the booking of the artists, the mailing lists, general P.R., and I redesigned everything inside, right down to the menu (terms of lease meant we couldn't do anything to the outside).

There was nary a Pogues song, nor a Waterboys number played in the place, not that the public didn't 'demand' it, mind you.

We called it a 'Traditional Pub', and the playlists in the pub were carefully controlled by yours truly.

The pub shot up to first place in the chain within 6 months.
The place has changed hands a few times since then, but a few of us proved that even in a foreign country, with careful management (... a weaning process that could sometimes be painful...) the 'concept' works.

B.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 08:17 PM

I haven't read the thread due to lack of time, and probably someone has discussed this..but I think there will be much on the internet for us to do. mg


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 08:11 PM

I see what you're doing, Folkiedave, and fair play to you.

I believe that all places play their part in keeping the scene active and healthy. The Folk Clubs and sessions where I musically grew up gave birth to a whole new wave of musicians, and this has played no small part in keeping the Irish tradition alive, over home.

There's places in England that are sadly lacking in outlets where the public can feel the tradition close at hand; Lewes has two successful ones, and Kent is 'sadly lacking'

It's fine that you have the carols for the next few weeks, but if there is nothing much for miles around, then something grass-rootsy, which covers as much of the tradition as it can is needed, and my point is that if 'deprived areas' (let's call them), stay that way, there's more of a chance than none that other people too, will 'get over it'

And I don't really think, in the wider scheme of things, that that's terribly healthy in the long run.

I applaud people who do it 'for the scene'. That is it's own reward: money is only one kind of currency.

B.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 07:11 PM

We have loads of sessions and we get some well-known and professional musicians at those sometimes. So we don't go short.

I do feel the need to get into a club and have a good sing sometimes as I used to. But I will get that over the next few weeks with the carols.

In folk clubs I was brought up on damn good floor singers and damn good professionals and I miss them.

Take a look at the play list and you can see where I am coming from.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 06:02 PM

But there is a need for the 'concept' of a Club in the Sheffield area, would you say?

B.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 05:53 PM

Let me make it plain that if there were a decent folk club in Sheffield booking decent guests or with decent residents then I would be happy to go.

Kiveton is good, but way out for me.

Barnsley is as far away.

I find it remarkable that Lewes - supports two folk clubs both of which look pretty decent to me - whereas Sheffield can't even support one.

It can't be the lack of organisers - we have loads of them or lack of young people - we have loads of them too. Plenty of good sessions I suppose is the problem - people go there and can get a good fix of the music they love.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 05:06 PM

We know your secret Chas ....................... which is more than Mr Darling does


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Fidjit
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 04:38 PM



No Greg it just grows two more heads.

Anyway who's doing the knocking?

Not me.

I am enjoying just being a part of it all.

Chas


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 03:20 PM

You're right about the stool, Les. In say 1960 the clubs were the main leg of the stool, in fact it was more of a shooting stick as they were the dominant part of the show. That, luckily I would say,is no longer the case, there are loads of different activities going on. As I mentioned earlier in this thread for example, out of the last twenty gigs I played, only one was in a folk club.
There are so many different scenes and sub-scenes, it isn't remotely homogeneous, which is excellent. This wonderful variety can be threatened, of course, if one small sub-group can get its hands on the media and publicity outlets for example.In that case the public may be given a very distorted and narrow view of what is in fact a very varied kind music. This is a possible danger that might need thinking about, but things will hopefully change. Basically folk music is a many headed hydra that grows in all directions, and changes shape as well. Knocking one bit on the head won't affect the rest much. Which is as it should be.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 03:13 PM

And what Les said.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 03:12 PM

Anahata - thanks for the link to Dave's radio show. I shall go and explore his podcasts whilst I paint my back room...

Paul - I will try to get to Kirkby Fleetwood eventually and also use the occasion as an excuse to stomp through some hills for a day in my big boots...

Snail - I suppose I can only go on what's available to me locally. I suspect if I lived in, say, Lewes, I would have a very different opinion. And access to Harveys' beers! My local folk club, when I visited it, was great fun but on the whole not really my sort of music - mainly singer songwriter stuff with a bit of early rock 'n' roll and poetry thrown in and only our 'Les from Chorlton' playing any traditional music. I had a great night out and I'll go again, but when it comes to seeing folk music live it's nearly always concerts for me rather than clubs at the moment. I hope this can change - one thing I do like about the pub/club setting is the smaller scale.

I suspect I should probably try to do something about it rather than whinge from the sidelines. That's going to be my new year's resolution, in fact...

Cheers

Nigel


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 02:58 PM

It's a bit like which is the most important leg of a 3 (?) legged stool.

Folk Clubs, Music on CD by pro and semi pro people, radio programmes, festivals, sessions, singarounds, barn dances, morris, mummers ....

..... each contributes and benefits from the others. Pick the ones you enjoy and trust they all survive and grow bit.

Cheers

Les


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 02:10 PM

It's nice to have a little positive feedback about club organisers for a change. Thank you.

Nigel Spencer

I'm not personally convinced that folk clubs are the only place or even the main place to hear folk music these days...

I don't think anybody is saying they are but they are part of the scene and, I think, a valuable one. I know that the (middle-aged) teenage diary singers and guitar obsessives exist but they are a tiny minority and easily avoided. It doesn't help the future of folk clubs if Folkiedave goes around telling the world that's what they are like.

You should get out more Dave. Your play list is wonderful and I've seen a lot of them in folk clubs.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Banjiman
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 01:05 PM

ssssshhhhh Brendy, be quiet, don't tell everyone or they'll all be doing it! What will I have as a USP then?

Paul :)


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 12:59 PM

"I know this thread is about Folk Clubs but I really enjoy playing pub gigs too"

Ahhh, but isn't that the nub of it, really, Banjiman...., most Folk Clubs meet in pubs.
It really is only a question of 'changing the theme' for the nights one wants to turn a pub into a folk club.

B.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Banjiman
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 12:54 PM

I love these circular discussions.....Richard, if you can't come to us, we''ll come to you (Kent anyway)....we'll see you at The Wrotham Arms, Broadstairs on April 5th. Wendy Arrowsmith and her trusty banjo playing sidekick to provide your Saturday evening entertainment?

synbyn, sorry we can't make your woodshed session on Friday, I'll be busy worrying about Saturday night!

I know this thread is about Folk Clubs but I really enjoy playing pub gigs too... a bit more laid back and a different kind of challenge.

Paul


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: synbyn
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 12:38 PM

Sounds like what we're trying to do at the Woodshed session in the Wrotham Arms Broadstairs... did I mention the first one is this Friday, 8.30.......!


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 12:24 PM

We used to do one in the pub next door to my house. Old school, tatty, but it did have a fire. It was often a bit rowdy, but we did have some good nights, and those too drunk to drive (most of us) used to sleep at my house (all right, drink some more, then sleep) and then I would put stew into survivors about noon on Sunday.

But it got to be a bit of a hassle and we gave up, not least because the pub stopped serving proper beer and only had keg. The pub is derelict now and will fairly soon be four houses (two pairs of semi dets, the slums of the future)


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 12:14 PM

Start one up, Richard...

The scene needs good heads.

B.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 12:11 PM

Sounds a bit far from Kent, sorry chaps


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 11:53 AM

"Iwould like to thank all the organisers over the years who have given me gigs and enabled me to play the music I love.Thankyou to allthose who have done a thankless task"

Second that.

B.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 11:41 AM

Alot depends on hard working organisers ,they are often amateurs yet are expected to be professional,they have to be enthusiastic, hard working and be able to promote their clubs in a professioinal way ,they also need to remember they are aclub ,not a mini concert,they have to be friendly and welcome to all.this is apretty tall order.
They also need to be able to find cheap suitable venues[another tall order]working mens/social clubs are generally good bets,cheap beer and stability of ownership.
Iwould like to thank all the organisers over the years who have given me gigs and enabled me to play the music I love.Thankyou to allthose who have done a thankless task .DickMiles


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: treewind
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 11:27 AM

Nigel - see This Thread for Folkiedave's radio show links.
You can listen live on the web and also afterwards as a podcast (look for "folk")
(and BTW the podcast IS working now).

Anahata


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Banjiman
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 10:37 AM

Please come and try it some time then Nigel.

You would be extremely welcome.....I just hope after all the hype that people do come and enjoy!

Otherwise there will be no future for this folk club!

Paul


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 10:31 AM

A different plot - thanks Nigel


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 10:07 AM

Sorry, 5th December...


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 10:06 AM

Folkiedave, the playlist for your show is fantastic. Is there a website or anything where people on the wrong end of Snake Pass for Sheffield can listen to it?

I'm not personally convinced that folk clubs are the only place or even the main place to hear folk music these days... of course it all depends what your definition of folk music is. If like WLD seems to advocate, 'folk music' is exactly the same as 'music-played-at-folk-clubs-with-the-exception-of-traditional-music-which-is-clearly-the-last-refuge-of-middle-class-tossers-and-the-establishment' then the discussion is over. Personally, I came to love (what I think of as) folk music without the intercession of the folk club scene. Folk clubs were never part of what my peers did - we were more interested in gigs. Banjiman's conception of what a folk club could be makes me think again though... meanwhile, there's always Les's singaround at the Beech in Chorlton on 5th November!


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 10:03 AM

Richard Bridge:
you quoted me saying
"But consider a quiet pub with a nice fire burning and a few people sitting about enjoying a snug night of beer and songs or fiddle tunes, say."
Then you enquired where the pub was. I was actually making a very precise, not romanticised, picture of a night in the Greyhound, Penkhull, Stoke-on-Trent with guests Will Duke and Dan Quinn, and hosts the Boat Band and various other locals. I say "guests" but not as in "folk club guests". It was an open evening in the bar with the locals.Will and Dan came from away, that's why I said guests.
    Thaty's the sort of night I like. I take it you do too! Come along some time.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Banjiman
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 09:56 AM

or The Black Horse Kirkby Fleetham 24th November!


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 09:55 AM

Beech, Beech Road, Chorlton, 5th December


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 09:33 AM

"But consider a quiet pub with a nice fire burning and a few people sitting about enjoying a snug night of beer and songs or fiddle tunes, say."

Hey Greg, where's that pub?


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 09:03 AM

The unfortunate thing about people who come up to performers and say the likes of "... well, I prefer Carthy's version...", or whatever, is that the ones who are susceptible to that kind of criticism, are generally the one's that need a bit of a confidence boost, and they can be turned off Folk Music for good, because the standard they are 'required' to attain, seems so far off from where they are at the present.

It's another dynamic of this, that generally the person who is making the criticism would hardly know what end of the guitar to hold, never mind '... the Carthy version'.

I'm glad I was able to offset this at an early age; I was influenced by musicians who were pushing the boundaries themselves, so I felt secure in what I was doing.
Other's didn't pull through that constant brow-beating, and now '...used to play the flute', and things...

I hope it is a practice that is in it's descendant, because it effects the confidence of the young player...., and indeed the perception of the newcomer to the Club.

B.


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 06:34 AM

Oh did I mention:

Wednesday 5 December in the side room at the Beech on Beech Road in Cholrton, Manchester, we plan to hold a Singaround.

The general idea is that we gather in the side room and sing mostly, but not exclusively, traditional folk songs. We will probably play a few tunes as well and people may recite poems. Card tricks have been known but the handling of ferrets is most unwelcome.

I don't think people will stand up and whilst we will be sociable and chat about this and that I trust singers etc. will be heard with something akin to er ... respect.

No charge will be made, I will probably "Chair" the fist night in that I will ask people if they want to sing. If two singers are present we will probably sing songs in turn until we run out of songs or time. If 6 singers turn up we will all sing one then go round again. I guess we will have a break and people can announce other events such as:
07824 364 602 for details

Cheers

Les


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Banjiman
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 04:53 AM

Thanks Dave....and it would be great to see you at some point....maybe we can cure your "clubitis"........

Cheers

Paul


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 04:26 AM

Indeed, not only can I mention it - I most certainly will!!


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: Banjiman
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 04:19 AM

Dave,

I like what I have heard of your show....but you could help with the future of folk clubs (there not all that bad honest!)by mentioning Kirkby Fleetham Folk Club and our opening night on Saturday 24th November featuring
Wendy Arrowsmith , Kim Guy & Ian McKone!

These will be 3 "proper" performances and then a singaround until the wee small hours......which will be friendly to old (& young) traddies and to young (& old) sniggy snoggies.

The only thing that will be compulsory will be smiling!

.....and it's only an hour (and a little bit) from Sheffield!!!!!


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Subject: RE: The Future of Folk Clubs
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 04:18 AM

CD's in the post!


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