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Tune Req: The Waterfall (from Northern Frisk)

Ed. 17 Nov 07 - 08:10 AM
TheSnail 17 Nov 07 - 08:27 AM
Ed. 17 Nov 07 - 08:33 AM
johnadams 17 Nov 07 - 08:55 AM
TheSnail 17 Nov 07 - 10:11 AM
johnadams 17 Nov 07 - 10:26 AM
TheSnail 17 Nov 07 - 10:33 AM
johnadams 17 Nov 07 - 11:04 AM
Ed. 17 Nov 07 - 11:35 AM
Ed. 17 Nov 07 - 11:48 AM
TheSnail 17 Nov 07 - 12:02 PM
Jack Campin 17 Nov 07 - 04:27 PM
Jack Campin 17 Nov 07 - 04:33 PM
Jack Campin 18 Nov 07 - 07:06 AM
johnadams 18 Nov 07 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,Brian Peters 18 Nov 07 - 12:46 PM
Jack Campin 18 Nov 07 - 05:50 PM
TheSnail 18 Nov 07 - 06:40 PM
Jack Campin 18 Nov 07 - 07:17 PM
TheSnail 18 Nov 07 - 07:56 PM
GUEST,Brian Peters 19 Nov 07 - 05:33 AM
GUEST 12 Apr 11 - 07:53 AM
leeneia 12 Apr 11 - 10:04 AM
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Subject: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: Ed.
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:10 AM

Hi,

I'm looking for the dots for a tune called 'The Waterfall'. I know it from a recording by 'The Band of the Rising Sun' who inculded it on a splendid album of theirs I have called 'Setting it Right'

The sleeve notes say:
"Anyone remembering the Manchester folk scene of the late 60's will remember the Beggarmen and their fiddle player Martin Lynott, composer of the fine hornpipe, The Waterfall"

A hunt around the 'net doesn't give me the tune in any format, but suggests that it was printed in Jamie Knowles book 'Northern Frisk' Unfortunately, this out of print. Manchester Central Library's catalogue says they have a copy, but much shelf hunting has failed to unearth it.

I'd be most grateful for any help.

Thanks,

Ed


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:27 AM

There is a tune of that title on John Chamber's Tune Finder. Scroll down past all the versions of Over the Waterfall.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: Ed.
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:33 AM

Thank you Mr/Mrs Snail, but I've already been ther and it's not the one.

Thanks anyway.

Ed


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk
From: johnadams
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:55 AM

I've put a rough scan up here

I hope you can read it ok

J


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 10:11 AM

Does this look about right? (from John's scan)

X:1
T:The Waterfall
C:Martin Lynott
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
K:Cmajor
e3f e3/2d/c3/2d/|e2A2A2e2|d3e d3/2c/B3/2c/|d2G2G3B|A3/2E/A3/2B/ c3/2B/c3/2d/|
e3/2d/c3/2d/ e3/2g/a3/2b/|a3/2g/e3/2d/ c3/2d/c3/2B/|1A6c3/2d/:|2A6((3e^f^g)|]
a3/2e/c3/2e/ d3/2B/G3/2B/|A3/2F/D3/2F/ E3/2C/A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E3/2D/C3/2D/ E2((3e^f^g|
a3/2e/c3/2e/ d3/2B/G3/2B/|A3/2F/D3/2F/ E3/2C/A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E3/2D/C3/2B,/ C2((3e^f^g|
a3/2e/c3/2e/ d3/2B/G3/2B/|A3/2F/D3/2F/ E3/2C/A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E3/2D/C3/2D/ E4|
e3/2d/c3/2d/ e3/2g/a3/2b/|a3/2g/e3/2d/ c3/2d/c3/2B|A6c3/2d/|]


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk
From: johnadams
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 10:26 AM

There's a bar missing Bryan - haven't got time to find out which one - trying to get through stuff so I can go out and see THE BOAT BAND tonight!

Perhaps there should be an S: field saying Northern Frisk?

J


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 10:33 AM

I thought something wasn't quite right.

X:1
T:The Waterfall
C:Martin Lynott
S:Northern Frisk
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
K:Cmajor
e3f e3/2d/c3/2d/|e2A2A2e2|d3e d3/2c/B3/2c/|d2G2G3B|
A3/2E/A3/2B/ c3/2B/c3/2d/|e3/2d/c3/2d/ e3/2g/a3/2b/|a3/2g/e3/2d/ c3/2d/c3/2B/|1A6c3/2d/:|2A6((3e^f^g)|]
a3/2e/c3/2e/ d3/2B/G3/2B/|A3/2F/D3/2F/ E3/2C/A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E3/2D/C3/2D/ E2((3e^f^g|
a3/2e/c3/2e/ d3/2B/G3/2B/|A3/2F/D3/2F/ E3/2C/A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E3/2D/C3/2B,/ C2((3e^f^g|
a3/2e/c3/2e/ d3/2B/G3/2B/|A3/2F/D3/2F/ E3/2C/A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E3/2D/C3/2D/ E4|
A3/2E/A3/2B/ c3/2B/c3/2d/|e3/2d/c3/2d/ e3/2g/a3/2b/|a3/2g/e3/2d/ c3/2d/c3/2B|A6c3/2d/|]


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk
From: johnadams
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 11:04 AM

Perfick!


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: Ed.
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 11:35 AM

Wonderful! Thank you both so very much. That's what I call service!

Thanks again,

Ed


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: Ed.
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 11:48 AM

Bryan Snail,

I'd be interested to know what software (if any) you used to produce the ABC file. That would have taken me hours.

Ed


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 12:02 PM

Hi Ed,

It's an ABC editor/printer/player programme I wrote myself a few years ago. It's not currently available but I'm working round to getting it back up online.

On the other hand, any programme that allows you to type abc would do. I've become reasonably adept at that (not perfect, obviously, or I'd have got it right first time). I don't much like abc2nwc, that's why I decided to write my own.

Nice tune; I'm working on it.

Bryan


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 04:27 PM

Same ABC, re-edited for more readability (broken rhythm signs instead of numbers, anacruses at the start rather than the end of parts, everything aligned):


X:1
T:The Waterfall
C:Martin Lynott
S:Northern Frisk
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
K:Cmajor
c>d|e3 f e>dc>d|e2 A2 A2 e2 |d3 e d>cB>c|d2 G2 G3B|
      A>EA>B c>Bc>d|e>dc>d e>ga>b|a>ge>d c>dc>B|A6      :|
(3e^f^g|a>ec>e d>BG>B|A>FD>F E>C A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E>DC>D E2
(3e^f^g|a>ec>e d>BG>B|A>FD>F E>C A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E>DC>B, C2
(3e^f^g|a>ec>e d>BG>B|A>FD>F E>C A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E>DC>D E4|
       A>EA>B c>Bc>d|e>dc>d e>g`a>b| a>g`````e>d    c>d```c>B|A6       |]
<\pre>

Isn't the tempo rather slow?

It's too much like other tunes I know for me to want to learn it, I'd get horribly confused.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 04:33 PM

Argh - something screwed up the preview button when I was submitting that so it wasn't quite right.

Should have had

K:A minor


instead of C major, and I got my closing <pre> tag wrong.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 07:06 AM

And an even more concise version...

X:1
T:The Waterfall
C:Martin Lynott
S:Northern Frisk
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
K:A minor
c>d|e3 f e>dc>d|e2 A2 A2 e2 |d3 e d>cB>c|d2 G2 G3B|
      A>EA>B c>Bc>d|e>dc>d e>ga>b|a>ge>d c>dc>B|A6      :|
(3e^f^g|a>ec>e d>BG>B|A>FD>F E>C A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E>DC>D [1 E2
(3e^f^g|a>ec>e d>BG>B|A>FD>F E>C A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E>DC>B,   C2:|
                                                                      [2 E4 |\
       A>EA>B c>Bc>d|e>dc>d e>g`a>b| a>g`````e>d    c>d```c>B|A6          |]


There's no need for ABC to be unreadable.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk
From: johnadams
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 12:01 PM

None of the above two versions display in Barfly.

I could read Bryan's code well enough to see the tune and the tempo's pretty close to what Jenny Coxon of the Rising Sun Band plays in our pub session.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 12:46 PM

Those two don't work for me either. Snail's second attempt does, though, and sounds about right for tempo. What tunes do you get it confused with, Jack? The B music seems particularly distinctive to me.

A fine tune indeed.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 05:50 PM

I used Barfly to write it!

The reason why it doesn't work is because of Mudcat. I put <pre> tags around the tune, but instead of treating it as preformatted, Mudcat added leading spaces. Also when you copy it from here, most of my spaces have been transformed into ASCII character \0xCA, whatever that is. This happens regardless of whether I use <pre> tags or post it raw (I just checked).

This is horrible. Can't we post ABC with spaces?

Meanwhile, if you remove one leading space from each line, BarFly will play the thing but complains about bad characters.

The tune reminds me of Henry Reed's "Cold Frosty Morning", "The Wheelbarrow", "The Fine Old Man versus Gladstone's Hornpipe", and "King of the Fairies". "The Wheelbarrow", the one I play most often, is in turn something like a GM hybrid of "Gilderoy" and "The Princess Royal". The Gladstone tune (a Tory campaign tune from his election campaign of 1880) is the least known but my favourite.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 06:40 PM

You are right,Jack, it should have been A minor. Taking the opportunity to correct another mistake that nobody noticed -

X:1
T:The Waterfall
C:Martin Lynott
S:Northern Frisk
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
K:Aminor
e3f e3/2d/c3/2d/|e2A2A2e2|d3e d3/2c/B3/2c/|d2G2G3B|
A3/2E/A3/2B/ c3/2B/c3/2d/|e3/2d/c3/2d/ e3/2g/a3/2b/|a3/2g/e3/2d/ c3/2d/c3/2B/|1A6c3/2d/:|2A6((3e^f^g)|]
a3/2e/c3/2e/ d3/2B/G3/2B/|A3/2F/D3/2F/ E3/2C/A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E3/2D/C3/2D/ E2((3e^f^g|
a3/2e/c3/2e/ d3/2B/G3/2B/|A3/2F/D3/2F/ E3/2C/A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E3/2D/C3/2B,/ C2((3e^f^g|
a3/2e/c3/2e/ d3/2B/G3/2B/|A3/2F/D3/2F/ E3/2C/A,2|(3A,B,C (3B,CD (3CDE (3DEF|E3/2D/C3/2D/ E4|
A3/2E/A3/2B/ c3/2B/c3/2d/|e3/2d/c3/2d/ e3/2g/a3/2b/|a3/2g/e3/2d/ c3/2d/c3/2B/|A6c3/2d/|]

Tempo is easily adjustable according to taste.

Trying to cut and paste Jack's version, it looks as if there may be a difference in carriage return/line feed between PC and MAC. Anybody know anything about this?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 07:17 PM

BarFly doesn't care what end-of-line character you use. MacOS does use a different one to Windows, but it shouldn't affect anything after uploading text to a web forum and downloading it again. Those invisible characters that aren't spaces are more of a problem; MacOS and Windows agree on what a space is, so this shouldn't be happening. Mudcat is doing something very weird here.

I'll check with a different browser, that might also affect it.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 07:56 PM

We seem to be drifting into a discussion about html/abc/mudcat but that is useful if we want to exchange tunes.

If I cut and paste Jacks abc into Microsoft Notepad, I don't get any line breaks; if I paste it onto Wordpad, I do; if I paste it into my own programme, it crashes. Looking at the source code for this thread, the only difference I can see is that Jack uses the <pre> tag round his abc to preserve the alignment.

Any suggestions?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: 'The Waterfall' (from Northern Frisk)
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 05:33 AM

"The tune reminds me of Henry Reed's "Cold Frosty Morning", "The Wheelbarrow", "The Fine Old Man versus Gladstone's Hornpipe", and "King of the Fairies"... The Gladstone tune (a Tory campaign tune from his election campaign of 1880) is the least known but my favourite."

Yes, I can hear "King of the Fairies" in the A part. The B part is what makes it special, though. And there ain't no Tory campaign tunes in my repertoire, whatever their period!


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Waterfall (from Northern Frisk)
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 07:53 AM

i think tameside local studies library stalbridge has a copy of northern frisk. jamie


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Waterfall (from Northern Frisk)
From: leeneia
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 10:04 AM

"...anacruses at the start rather than the end of parts..."

Anacruses - wasn't he king of Tyre when Phillipus was governor of Syria?



Seriously, thanks to all who posted the abc which makes it possible to play this nice piece.


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