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BS: Shakespeare: where to start?
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Subject: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Ed. Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:32 AM I 've much cared for plays, but have recently had a happy coincidence (thank you Martin Carthy), whereby I started to understand Hamlet. I'd like to learn more. Which plays would you suggest I start with? Thanks, Ed |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Liz the Squeak Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:47 AM A Midsummer night's dream is one of the better ones to start with, it has the merit of being a bit funny in places. Then there's Romeo and Juliet - just watch 'West Side Story' and you've got the gist of it. As a teenager, I had 'The Merchant of Venice' forced upon me and it turned out to be not half bad - for an unromantic teenager who'd never been kissed (well, not by anything that wasn't related or had more than 2 legs) it was alright. Not much comic interest but some interesting play on the cross dressing and not recognising. Actually got to see a performance of it but as Bassanio was played by a 19 yr old and Portia was old enough to be his mum, it lost a bit. Good luck, at least you're willing to give it a go. Most people who own a 'Collected Works of Shakespeare' have it only to prop up the wobbly leg on the wardrobe. LTS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Michael Date: 17 Nov 07 - 09:11 AM Macbeth is a pretty straight forward story. Mike |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Jeanie Date: 17 Nov 07 - 09:12 AM To quote the Bard himself: "O wonderful, wonderful and most wonderful wonderful ! and yet again wonderful, and after that, out of all whooping !" And to quote me: YAY ! Once you have caught the Shakespeare bug, there will be no stopping you. I would say, rather than thinking of which particular plays to start with, go and see *whichever* play is being performed live nearest to you by a good company. If you can, go and see it a couple or more times during the run - there is always more to see and hear. Before going to the play, you could read the plot-line and get an idea of the characters and situations. There is a very good series (can't remember the publisher) which has the play text in Shakespeare's words on one side of the page and translated into modern English on the other. On the other hand (and especially if you plan to see the play more than once during its run), it would be even better to go and watch it totally "cold" - and let the good acting draw you in. THEN you can do your "homework" before you go and see it again. If you find that you are after scholarly footnotes, the Arden Shakespeare editions are among the best, I think. Having said that, the Royal Shakespeare Company uses and recommends the Penguin editions. Another thing: Just as much as these plays are meant to be participated in by watching them (rather than reading them), they are also for acting in. A lot of theatre companies run workshops alongside their productions. Speaking the words and becoming the characters is a fun and positive way to get "into" Shakespeare. If you aren't in the UK, you won't have the RSC or The Globe on your doorstep, but both have excellent websites with a lot of very good material and links to many other places. Another very good resource (and resource for links) is the company "Shakespeare4Kidz" - (don't be put off by the title !) All the very best, - jeanie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 17 Nov 07 - 10:50 AM Go the library and have them borrow for you (it's probably not on the shelves) "Twisted Tales From Shakespeare" by Richard Armour. Then read the plays that are in Armour's book. ([Armour] attended Pomona College and Harvard University, where he studied with the eminent Shakespearean scholar George Lyman Kittredge and obtained a Ph.D. in English philology. He eventually became Professor of English at Scripps College and the Claremont Graduate School in Claremont, California.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Nov 07 - 12:28 PM the thing about shakespeare is that it works, if you give it optimum conditions. 1) skilled actors 2) sane directors 3) it is essentially a live gig sort of thing - there very few cases where it adds up to much even in the once remove of watching it on dvd. Most of Shakespeare is written in poetry and if you get really good trained actors who know how to perform the speeches they can describe a scene or a situation so perfectly straight into your face - a stream of imagery and impassioned insight. there is nothing quite like it. Sitting at home reading Shakespeare is okay - but its not really what its about. My advice is go to Stratford - several times. Get the cheapest seats (benches overhanging the stage) see as many productions as you can. Have a gin and tonic on the terrace of the thaeatre overlooking the Avon. Go on a backstage tour and see how the show is put together. See the beautiful new Swan theatre. Stand in the Dirty Duck pub where generations of actors have slipped in for a quick drink. Of course you get passages of speech where you have been listening for 5 minutes without really understanding the action - but stick with it. Its one of the few things we do best in the world. The fact that we don't manage to pass this on to ALL our children, is almost as big a shame as fact we need for some neurotic reason to sing folksongs in a way only the elect can understand. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 17 Nov 07 - 01:00 PM You don't even have to go to Stratford these days. If you're in the UK, several touring companies specialise in Shakespeare - no wonder, it still brings the crowds in - and they do some riveting productions. The Globe on London's south bank is also a good bet but has productions on for only a three-four season each summer. If you're willing to stand, you can turn up there and get tickets at the door almost any night, for a fiver each. Picnics and sauntering around the arena during the performance is positively encouraged. As for the plays... A Midsummer Night's Dream can be hilarious in production but may be a bit challenging on the page. Macbeth has the twin advantage of a single plot - no sub-plots to complicate matters - and is Shakespeare's shortest. Its element of sorcery is not typical but was worked in because James I liked that stuff. My daughter (White Tiger on Mudcat) has been hooked on Shakespeare since she was eight. What got her started was the most ingenious romantic comedy ever conceived, Shakespeare in Love. It was a natural step from that to Romeo and Juliet, which she saw as a straightforward RSC production and also in the phenomenal Baz Luhrman/Leonardo di Caprio film. At 15 she now has 16 of the plays under her belt and seems to grasp the language of Shakespeare's day just as readily as modern English. Anyway, good luck. And if it seems like hard work at first, stick with it - it's worth the effort. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Bert Date: 17 Nov 07 - 01:18 PM Most of my experience with The Bard has been negative. We had to read his plays aloud in class with every kid reading a few verses and all of us hating every minute of it because it's so boring when presented that way. There's a special place in hell reserved for out teachers. Over here in the States I once went to see "The Two Gentlemen of Verona" but the actors got it all wrong because they didn't know where the laughs were so they played the straight lines funny and couldn't understand the funny ones so the stage laughter was bland and forced. I left halfway through. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: MarkS Date: 17 Nov 07 - 01:54 PM Start off with "The Comedy of Errors", but see it acted out in the flesh rather than trying to read it from a script. Then go on to "Much Ado about Nothing", and if you have a taste for history, graduate to "Julius Caesar" and "Henry V." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Nov 07 - 01:55 PM I don't know about America, but theres a terrific set of VHS recordings of the Shakespeare plays frm the Stratford in Canada. if you have to watch it at one remove, those are good live recordings and have the theatre audience reacting, as part of the recording. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 17 Nov 07 - 03:02 PM Shakespeare's plays, being drama, should be acted. Acted well. There are several good productions on DVD and VHS -- your local public library may well have them. The Sonnets, The Rape of Lucrece, and other poems should be read aloud as God intended poetry to be. Read everything else to yourself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: EBarnacle Date: 17 Nov 07 - 03:26 PM If you can get his Age of Kings on recording [VHS or DVD] get it and start from King John right through Henry VIII. If you try to read them straight they will seem very confusing [there are a lot of charcters to keep track of] but I adore his history of the English royalty, warts and all. Of course, he was writng as a propogandist for ye winninge side. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Don Firth Date: 17 Nov 07 - 03:43 PM Some years back, PBS was playing a series of Shakespeare's plays on videotape, performed, I believe, by the Royal Shakespeare Company, in a project to get all of the Bard's plays on tape. Fine actors, excellent performances. One hopes they've been transferred to DVDs. They may be available somewhere—I hope! I had a superb English Lit. prof when I was attending the University of Washington (actually, I had several superb profs there), who taught a Shakespeare class. She had an interesting take on Hamlet. She said that the standard interpretation, and the one most Shakespearean actors use, is that Hamlet actually was a bit mad. That he was dithering and indecisive when it came to wreaking vengeance upon his uncle for having murdered his father, married his mother, and assuming the throne. The prof said no. The question that Hamlet had to answer to his satisfaction was whether or not the ghost actually was the ghost of his father. She said that it was a common superstition at the time that sometimes a demon, or the Devil himself, would appear to a bereaved lover or relative in the guise of the departed and try to get the mourner to commit some heinous act against an innocent person in order to entrap the mourner's soul. This, she says, is underlined by Horatio's warning to Hamlet as he follows the ghost to the edge of the parapet, and Hamlet's question to the ghost, "Angels of grace defend us! Be thou a spirit of health or a goblin damned? Be thy intents wicked or charitable?" Of course, if it is a "goblin damned," it will lie to him, and Hamlet would be aware of that. Why doesn't he get right to it and off his uncle? Two reasons: If he had, it would have been a very short play. But the main reason was that he had to play detective and verify what the ghost had told him, hence such things as the "play within the play," in which he did catch "the conscience of the king." Once he was sure that the ghost had told him the truth, and it was indeed the ghost of his father, it was just a matter of looking for an opportunity to wreak vengeance on Claudius without it looking like a simple political assassination. The conspiracy between Claudius and Laertes—the "fencing" match, with Laertes' foil sharpened, and the back-up plan of the poisoned wine—provided it for him when the treachery became obvious. Mel Gibson (not what you would call a seasoned Shakespearean actor) played Hamlet as manic-depressive (or so he said). Lawrence Olivier (1948) opened the play with a voice-over, saying "This is a play about a man who couldn't make up his mind," which seems to indicate the standard interpretation. But—he didn't play it that way. He seems to rave mildly and talk nonsense when others are around, but you also see him with a fairly canny expression on his face as he, undetected, eavesdrops on conversations. Detective at work. I haven't seen Kenneth Branagh's interpretation. The four principals, Hamlet, Laertes, Claudius, and Gertrude (along with Ophelia and Polonius earlier) wind up dead at the end. And the rest of the cast is cut down by John Brown on his way to Harper's Ferry! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Severn Date: 17 Nov 07 - 04:14 PM It helps a great deal to hear it spoken properly and get the nuance and flow. Back in the dark ages before books on tape and CDs when I was still in high school and had to read it all at gunpoint, I found that I could go to the local library and get the LP versions of the Royal Shakespeare Company and listen to them on the earphones while I followed along in the book. Apparently, none of the other kids caught on, because the boxed sets of LPs were always in when I wanted them. It all came together and I came to love Shakespeare, desipte the teachers trying to get us to understand it by reading it aloud in the classrooms ourselves. I believe Caedmon offers all these as CDs and I own a couple, but, still having a working turntable, when the library system started selling off all their old LPs, I bought up all the Shakespeare ones I could find at dirt cheap prices out of a combination of sentiment and thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 17 Nov 07 - 04:15 PM Act 1, Scene 1 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Don Firth Date: 17 Nov 07 - 04:56 PM Once again at the U. of W. I knew a couple of drama students there, and for a couple of quarters several of us would get together in one of the dorm lounges and read plays, each one of us taking a part, sometimes more than one part, depending on how many of us were there. And sometimes other students would drop in to listen. The drama students wanted to do it as a means of practice and study, the rest of us did it just for fun. We worked our way through a fair bit of Shakespeare. When we did Rostand's Cyrano de Bergerac, I got to be Cyrano! Lotsa fun! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 17 Nov 07 - 07:35 PM Liz the S said, in part: Most people who own a 'Collected Works of Shakespeare' have it only to prop up the wobbly leg on the wardrobe. Boy, that wardrobe has some damage to the leg! Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 17 Nov 07 - 07:48 PM Hello. My Nom-des-claviers Is Rapaire. And I LOVE Shakespeare's stuff. Don, did you get to play Cyrano because of your nose or your fencing? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:11 PM EVERY TIME ! (Drama Poetry) I get something new from each viewing or each reading.
and the thousands and thousands of playwrites.... there is a REASON why it is SHAKESPEARE (and not Marlow that stands out against the backdrop of masters.
Signup and attend six nights of "adult education" classes where-ever they may be offered in your community. This guy is DEEP and a lot of the beauty flys over-head until someone points out. internal rhyme alliteration ononomatopoea symbolism poems within plays plays within plays double triple entranda puns ribaldry jokes political history original sources
You are in for a lot of fun as you discover (it will last years)
Sincerely,
(opening of R&J is absolutely filthy, maiden-heads, unsheated swords, naked tools etc....this was to get the audience laughing and the graoundings to shut-up...R&J begins two acts of comedy and ends in tragedy that the audiance knows (dramatic irony) is coming....the sonnet at the beginning told them so)
(None of his material (plot/story-line) was original it all came from established/published historical stories) If nothing else....read Cliff/Spark Notes online and watch a video....then read a "School Sucks" collection of free essays.....then watch a different video of the same.....then read "Blue Monkey" notes.....watch a different video.....then read an on-line discusion....then get another video of the same....then go back to original you watched.
EVERY TIME - you will get something different.
NOW!!!! See it LIVE On Stage!!!! at least once....preferably at least three times with three different directors.
go to your grave without having prepared and then seen a live performance of SHAKESPEARE!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: catspaw49 Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:33 PM I kinda' with Garg.....especially on the Cliff notes. All through school we had to read and analyze his works and go see live renditions when available. As far as those live performances go, it depends on where you are I think. Take "Hamlet" for instance. Following a live performance of the famous soliloquy my friend Guy Pirrello sitting at the end of the aisle was obviously enthralled as he piped up, "Fockin' A well told Man." This actually stopped the performance for a bit............ The comedian Blake Clark talks about a rural Georgia translation where "To be or not to be" translated into native Georgia Crackerese is "I dunno' whether to shit or wipe." Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:37 PM Henry Winkler, as The Fonz, did a magnificent job on Hamlet back in the '70s. Of course, being a grad of the Yale drama school and a trained "Shakespearian" you'd expect that. BTW, I've had courses in Billy Bob's works from both the literature and drama sides. AND I've been involved in a couple productions. Garg's right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Don Firth Date: 17 Nov 07 - 09:30 PM Being able to fence with my nose. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 17 Nov 07 - 09:38 PM Well, it certainly saves on weapons but it could make a parry and riposte in quinte more difficult. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: robomatic Date: 17 Nov 07 - 09:41 PM Shakespeare is one of the all-time greats of the world, we show his influence quite frequently in daily converse when we use phrases, ideas, and connotations which he originated. I enjoyed "The Heart Of Hamlet" which challenges the conventional take on the main character as a ditherer and delayer. Willy the Shake had great influences well beyond the English language, one of the greats of Russian literature, Pushkin, was heartily influenced by Shakespeare and translated or re-created some of his works into Russian. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Stringsinger Date: 17 Nov 07 - 09:51 PM It's best if you see a good acting troupe do one first. They're all good. Some are more accessible like Midsummer Night's Dream, Tempest, As You Like It, then the heavier ones, Othello, MacBeth, Hamlet, and later Coriolanus. Richard III, heavy stuff. But see it first if you can with good actors or in a well-made movie...Olivier's Henry V or Hamlet. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: M.Ted Date: 17 Nov 07 - 10:26 PM My two cents worth--make a point of watching the series "Slings and Arrows"-- I t's a Canadian series, about a fictional Shakespearean Theatre Company, three seasons, each season, they produced another play, Hamlet, MacBeth, and King Lear--you get as realistic and unvarnished a view of theatre production as was ever shown, with amazing insights into the plays, from a players point of view. The last season featured the great Canadian Shakespearean actor, William Hutt, in his last role, portraying a great Canadian Shakespearean actor in his last role, King Lear. The high points are a scene in which he explains the story, from his character's point of view, to the actors on the first day of rehearsals, and Lear's final scene. If you love Shakespeare, or the theatre, or some combination thereof, check this out on cable(it's on Sundance) or beg,borrow, or buy the DVDs. PS--the head writer for the show was Bob Martin, who wrote, and starred in the smash hit musical, "The Drowsy Chaperone". His collaborator on TDC, Don McKellar, has a recurring role in the series, and Greg Morrison and Lisa Lambert, who wrote songs for TDC, wrote a hysterical music hall type theme songs for each season--including the funniest song about King Lear that has ever been written. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: M.Ted Date: 17 Nov 07 - 10:28 PM Oh, I forgot to mention that the show is very funny, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 17 Nov 07 - 10:42 PM Hamlet was NOT a ditherer or "a man who couldn't make up his mind." THAT was how he was portrayed in the Laurence Olivier film. It is NOT how the play portrays Hamlet. "To be or not to be....": a musing on suicide, which he decides against. "Now would I do it pat...": and decides not to kill the King while the King is on his knees praying and may go to heaven, but to kill him when he is in his "incestuous bed" or in some other situation that will send his soul straight to Hell. Just to cite two places cited as evidence for an indecisive Hamlet. A student, Hamlet is questioning and musing, yes...but definitely NOT indecisive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 18 Nov 07 - 07:25 AM There ARE bad live performances. A local univerity did a main-stage production of Hamlet (cut down to two hours for local attention spans) The graveside soliloquey scene was removed and alass poor Orick.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Linda Kelly Date: 18 Nov 07 - 07:43 AM The ultimate play is King Lear -absolutely awesome -comedies I would go Much Ado as genuinely funny and The Tempest because you can relate it to other Shakespearean based movies like The Forbidden Planet. He is the biz! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: van lingle Date: 18 Nov 07 - 09:08 AM I think Don refers to the BBC production of all the plays which appeared on PBS here in the states in the 70's and 80's and featured such fine actors as Derek Jacoby (my favorite Hamlet), Claire Bloom, Robert Hardy, Helen Mirren, Anthony Hopkins and a bunch more. Seeing the plays on TV put them in a whole different light, as Garg points out and inspired me to attend live productions. The DVD's are available at my local library and can probably be found all over the net. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 18 Nov 07 - 11:07 AM A local high school did a production of "Hamlet" in which they used broomsticks for the Hamlet/Laertes duel at the end!! Why? Because school policy forbade "weapons" (foils, epees, and sabers are for sport). I didn't go, but I could envision the King providing Laertes with a poisoned broomstick and Hamlet getting an envenomed splinter...how Hamlet would run the King through with poisoned broomstick was beyond my imagination. More Punch and Judy than Hamlet.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: peregrina Date: 18 Nov 07 - 11:18 AM Lear and Hamlet... Twelfth Night... (Charles Lamb's Lamb's Tales from Shakespeare for plot summary before going to the production if you wish). For reading, paper backs that don't squash you like those hardback complete Shakespeares can if you let 'em. Arden Shakespeares are my favorite; they explain the language as much as you want, are the right size to hold... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Don Firth Date: 18 Nov 07 - 02:53 PM Sheesh! I'd a helluvalot rather get poked with a foil (blunted tip, flexible blade) than with a broomstick! That could leave a bruise and a half! A local production of Hamlet at Seattle's Intiman Theater was very well done. The fencing match between Hamlet and Laertes was with sword-and-dagger (as in the Olivier movie), and it had obviously been worked out by a good fight choreographer, and it had to have been well rehearse. Fine bit of stage swordplay, which one doesn't see all that often. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 18 Nov 07 - 03:29 PM Amazing, Don. In the "They exchange rapiers" sequence the two actors usually drop the weapons instead of using an actual corps-a-corps exchange, which makes them look clumsy at best. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Don Firth Date: 18 Nov 07 - 05:06 PM In this production, while they were taking a breather between bouts (Hamlet was winning, two-nothing, I think), Laertes suddenly attacked Hamlet and nicked him in the arm ("Have at you, now!" Foul blow). Hamlet, who had been just standing there mopping his brow with a towel, noticed his arm was bleeding and realized that Laertes' weapon was sharp. The treachery had become obvious. Without his weapons, he lunged at Laertes suddenly, grabbing his wrist with one hand, and yanked the weapon out of his hand with the other. He then offered Laertes the blunted weapon he'd been using. Laertes had no choice but to take it and hope for the best. When they went at it again, Hamlet came on strong, obviously pissed, and Laertes, pretty scared, was very much on the defensive. It looked pretty realistic. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 18 Nov 07 - 09:52 PM It's a lot better than both of them dropping their weapons, that's for sure. Geez, they are both supposed to be good rapier-and-dagger men. Of course, the "exchange" isn't usually taught in fencing classes these days...something about the FIE rules, sportsmanship, stuff like that. Bind 'em corps-a-corps, I say! Bind 'em and slide your dagger up into their kidneys or knee 'em in the jewels or smash that pommel into their face or... What's that? Rules? Oh, FIE! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: EBarnacle Date: 18 Nov 07 - 10:56 PM Consider that many schools, even then, had fencing programs for the young gentlemen. Consider the German shlagerspiel tradition, in which the purpose was to inflict nasty but not dangerous scars. Having blooded, the scarred one was considered, sexy, virile, etc. Therefor it is reasonable for both Hamlet amd Laertes to be skilled with the weapons of the day. Even had they not taken lessons at school, there were salles all over the place as well as armsmasters to teach the noble arts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 18 Nov 07 - 11:08 PM Hamlet, Laertes, Horatio, Roseypants, Gildedstern....all would have been trained in swordsmanship. It was necessary, at that period, if you wanted to live and especially so if you were of the Upper Classes. The German Fechtschull didn't exist in the 17th Century to inflict scars -- they taught killing, pure and simple. It was later, in the 19th Century, that the mensur and all that sort of thing appeared. I was being facetious about fencing earlier, but in the 17th Century (and before and after) the Master At Arms taught you how to kill with a sword. That could and did mean the use of the knucklebow as brass knuckles, how to get behind your opponent and break his back while cutting his throat, how to cut the hamstrings behind the knee (coupe de Jordan, I think it's called), how to grapple while using a sword...the "classical" fencing that Don Firth and I learned was nothing like the original, and today's "sport" fencing with its emphasis on "flicks" and fleche is even less so. Rapier and dagger, rapier and cloak, rapier and glove, two rapiers, and more variations were taught. The fights in Shakespeare's plays were played before an audience who knew swordplay (even the groundlings) because their life depended upon it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Richard Bridge Date: 19 Nov 07 - 03:28 AM My, aren't we all educated? Personally, I'd suggest the following: - RUN AWAY! (Same goes for Dickens). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 19 Nov 07 - 09:04 AM No, I'm a fencer and interested in historical fencing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: MaineDog Date: 19 Nov 07 - 10:28 AM Some useful Shakespearean language may be found...(I hope) here MD |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Bert Date: 19 Nov 07 - 11:28 AM ...You are in for a lot of fun as you discover... Ah, Well said Garg it's a pity we didn't have teachers like you. The number of pathetic teachers we had who didn't have a funny bone in their whole bodies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 19 Nov 07 - 11:56 AM Fortunately I had good teachers, especially on the drama side. I never will forget sitting in a course called "Modern Drama" and discussing "Ghosts": Prof: And, how was venereal disease spread? Student: By seamen. Prof: (feigning shock) Miss Smith! I know that you are a modern young lady, but really!!! At that point she blushed and the class roared with laughter. This was the same prof who REQUIRED us to memorize and understand the definition of tragedy from Aristotle's "Poetics." As a result I destroyed the mind of the English prof who graded my Comprehensive Exam: the question was, "So-and-so states that "King Lear" is an absurdist comedy. Discuss." I wrote two and half blue books, ringing in Aristotle and Esslin's "Theater of the Absurd"." I was told later, at a party, "I've NEVER had anyone quote Aristotle EXACTLY -- I looked it up!" Maybe Cole Porter said it best: MOBSTERS: The girls today in society Go for classical poetry, So to win their hearts one must quote with ease Aeschylus and Euripides. But the poet of them all Who will start 'em simply ravin' Is the poet people call The bard of Stratford-on-Avon. Brush up your Shakespeare, Start quoting him now. Brush up your Shakespeare And the women you will wow. Just declaim a few lines from "Othella" And they think you're a heckuva fella. If your blonde won't respond when you flatter 'er Tell her what Tony told Cleopaterer, And if still, to be shocked, she pretends well, Just remind her that "All's Well That Ends Well." Brush up your Shakespeare And they'll all kowtow. Brush up your Shakespeare, Start quoting him now. Brush up your Shakespeare And the women you will wow. If your goil is a Washington Heights dream Treat the kid to "A Midsummer Night Dream." If she fights when her clothes you are mussing, What are clothes? "Much Ado About Nussing." If she says your behavior is heinous Kick her right in the "Coriolanus." Brush up your Shakespeare And they'll all kowtow, And they'll all kowtow, And they'll all kowtow. Brush up your Shakespeare, Start quoting him now. Brush up your Shakespeare And the women you will wow. Brush up your Shakespeare And they'll all kowtow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 19 Nov 07 - 12:15 PM Henry V, Ricard III His historic plays verge on political propaganda but are still great drama. I suggest before seeing any play that you read it through first. Try to find a copy with good footnotes. It helps to know that a bare bodkin is an unsheathed longish knife and stuff like that. Then when you see the play, not only will it be easier to follow, but you will be surprised at how well it all falls together. If the troupe is good you will be able to really pick up on the rhythm and flow of the words. The poeticism as well as the drama. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Ythanside Date: 19 Nov 07 - 12:45 PM Try listening to Adam McNaughton's brilliant song entitled 'Oor Hamlet', sometimes referred to as 'The Three Minute Hamlet', which encapsulates the complete story. You'll find it on Digitrad, and the tune is 'The Mason's Apron'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: GUEST,Ed Date: 19 Nov 07 - 03:56 PM Wow, thanks everyone. Didn't expect such a response. This Bard bloke clearly has something... Ythanside: Try listening to Adam McNaughton's brilliant song entitled 'Oor Hamlet' It was Martin Carthy's version of this song which I obliquely alluded to in my initial post. A fine song indeed. Time to get reading, watching, and reading some more. Many thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate them. Thanks, Ed |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Rapparee Date: 19 Nov 07 - 04:20 PM And when you're read all of Shakespeare, read Marlowe's "Faustus." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: GUEST,Jim Carroll Date: 20 Nov 07 - 04:07 AM TAs has been mentioned, Adam McNaughton is worth a listen, as is Con 'Fada' O'Driscoll; between them, have made magnificent songs on Hamlet, MacBeath and King Lear. Not as good as the real thing, but well worth a visit. Con Fada has also done a very full version of Ben Hur (available in the book, The Spoons Murder). The MacColl double album 'The Paper Stage' has a number of broadside versions of plays, including King Lear and Titus Andronicus. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Nov 07 - 08:25 PM The best way to understand The Bard, is to partake in a production... Been there, Done that.... :-) (several actually) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Greg B Date: 20 Nov 07 - 09:25 PM 2nd on the Jacoby 'Hamlet' thanks to BBC. Alas, rather difficult (and expensive) to obtain due to their wanting to sell the whole series, last I checked. If I'm wrong, someone let me know. 'Hamlet' still leaves me weeping at the final scene--- I do love that play, and have done since I was a sophomore in high school in 1975. Another brilliant production from the same series was 'Taming of the Shrew' with John Cleese playing Petruchio. As was their 'Merchant of Venice.' Mel Gibson as Hamlet? Feh! Awful. Just awful. He played it the same as he played Spencer Christian in that re-make of Mutiny on the Bounty. All neuroses and spittle. Come to think of it he only plays one way, and it's that way. Ptui! Now, the 3rd best 'Hamlet' after the BBC and the Olivier is certainly the 'Gilligans Island' one that featured Phil Silvers as Harold Heckuba. They put it on as a musical, using the only record they had, 'Carmen' as the orchestra. Frigging brilliant; it was clearly screen-writ by a Shakespeare scholar. 'Get thee to a notary!' Wonderful. 'Hide anywhere' (he says to Ophelia) 'but don't go near the water.' Damn. What a belly-laugh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 21 Nov 07 - 05:59 PM The final scene of hamlet leaves me feeling. hey, i've been here before - everybody dead. Jacobean drama like Webster, the Revengers Tragedy by Tourneur - everybody dead. It feels like a cliche to me.(sorry don't know how to do accents) Jacoby is something else as an actor. he was s doing this gig a while back Richard 2 and richard 3 back to back. One night after the other. I'd always had trouble understanding why Richard 2 was considered the greater play. Til those two nights. When you're at home Richard 3 reads better. But you can't cut people's heads off onstage - not convincingly. All I can say is jacoby's command of the poetry was atonishing. the poetic reality was so much more intense than anything you could do to convey someone's head being cut off in the next room. as a director Jonathan Miller in the 1960's gave us a few memorable nights at Nottingham Playhouse. He directed Michael Hordern in Lear, which was astonishing. For all crazy reasons. Sets like francis Bacon paintings all bare and existential. He gave us a really shit Richard 3 with Leonard Rossiter, trying to regal in a pair of football shorts, like the rest of the cast. You just felt sorry for every poor sod onstage. the best production of Shakespeare I ever saw was Brian Cox as Titus Andonicus in a production by Deborah Warner at The Swan theatre in Stratford. they cut his hand off onstage - you heard it plop into the bucket, like a conjuring trick - which shows Grand Guignol can be accomplished, if the director believes its possible! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shakespeare: where to start? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 22 Nov 07 - 02:14 AM Once took part in a 'Theatre of Blood' production - a contempoprary of The Bard - almost everybody is dead at the end - 'Tis Pity She's A Whore by John Ford. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Tis_Pity_She%27s_a_Whore :-) |
