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BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today

DigiTrad:
BEST YEARS OF HER LIFE
DEATH OF JOHN KENNEDY
I SAW MY COUNTRY'S FLAG GO DOWN
I'M CALLED LITTLE CAROLINE
LEE HARVEY WAS A FRIEND OF MINE
LORD OF THE LAND
THAT WAS THE PRESIDENT AND THAT WAS THE MAN
THAT WAS THE PRESIDENT, THAT WAS THE MAN 2
THE BALLAD OF J. F. K.
THE BOY SALUTES


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Bobert 24 Nov 07 - 12:18 PM
Riginslinger 24 Nov 07 - 02:13 PM
Bobert 24 Nov 07 - 04:57 PM
Donuel 24 Nov 07 - 05:28 PM
Little Hawk 24 Nov 07 - 05:30 PM
Beer 24 Nov 07 - 05:33 PM
Little Hawk 24 Nov 07 - 06:49 PM
fumblefingers 24 Nov 07 - 07:37 PM
Riginslinger 24 Nov 07 - 09:09 PM
Little Hawk 24 Nov 07 - 09:09 PM
Riginslinger 25 Nov 07 - 09:59 AM
pdq 25 Nov 07 - 01:28 PM
Rog Peek 25 Nov 07 - 03:45 PM
Little Hawk 25 Nov 07 - 03:59 PM
pdq 25 Nov 07 - 04:06 PM
Bobert 25 Nov 07 - 04:48 PM
pdq 25 Nov 07 - 05:51 PM
Bobert 25 Nov 07 - 06:51 PM
Little Hawk 25 Nov 07 - 10:19 PM
Riginslinger 25 Nov 07 - 10:33 PM
Little Hawk 26 Nov 07 - 11:08 AM
Riginslinger 27 Nov 07 - 08:02 AM
Little Hawk 27 Nov 07 - 08:16 AM
Bobert 27 Nov 07 - 08:49 AM
GUEST,number 6 27 Nov 07 - 02:22 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 27 Nov 07 - 02:40 PM
Little Hawk 27 Nov 07 - 03:09 PM
Bobert 27 Nov 07 - 06:21 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 27 Nov 07 - 07:17 PM
Bobert 27 Nov 07 - 07:42 PM
katlaughing 27 Nov 07 - 07:53 PM
Amos 27 Nov 07 - 08:09 PM
Bobert 27 Nov 07 - 08:12 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 27 Nov 07 - 08:49 PM
Bobert 27 Nov 07 - 09:16 PM
Bill D 27 Nov 07 - 09:21 PM
Riginslinger 27 Nov 07 - 09:24 PM
Little Hawk 27 Nov 07 - 09:36 PM
Riginslinger 27 Nov 07 - 11:01 PM
Bobert 28 Nov 07 - 06:06 PM
Folk Form # 1 29 Nov 07 - 01:43 PM
Little Hawk 29 Nov 07 - 01:59 PM
Riginslinger 29 Nov 07 - 02:26 PM
Amos 29 Nov 07 - 02:57 PM
Little Hawk 29 Nov 07 - 04:18 PM
Folk Form # 1 29 Nov 07 - 04:23 PM
Little Hawk 29 Nov 07 - 04:29 PM
Bobert 29 Nov 07 - 05:21 PM
Riginslinger 29 Nov 07 - 05:45 PM
Little Hawk 29 Nov 07 - 06:12 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 12:18 PM

Ahhhhh, not to be tryin' to be disrespectfull to anyone, but can someone expalin Oswald's motives???


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 02:13 PM

They'll tell you that he was a maniac so he didn't need a motive. Just like George W. Bush invading Iraq.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 04:57 PM

Oh???

So, no motive... There's one down...

Surhan, yer up next...

And, Ray, yer in the batter's box so get warmed up...


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 05:28 PM

MLK was killed on April 4th 1968, AFTER JFK not before.
Cities were burning throughout the country but the TV was mum.
Johnson did call the national guard for some of the worst riots and fires but much more of the country burned that week than we were told.


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Our 8th grade math teacher Mr. Craft carried his blackboard pointer like a British officer might flourish his riding crop. WHAP! on the desk to get our attention and then a precision guided poke that was meant to levitate us where he wanted us to go. Today people might compare him to Mr. Snape with a pencil thin moustache.
THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN SHOT echoed from the locker lined hallway into our class. Miss Denise Watkins came to our door and confirmed the news from a transitor radio she had confiscated while monitoring a study hall. Shot in the head was the news.
Oh I hope he is going to be alright Susan said as she slumped head in hands onto the 1940 oak school desk deeply etched by 20 years of kids. Mr. Craft grinned the rightious grin of victory and said "Have you ever heard the sound a rifle slug makes when it hits a deer in the head? There is no possible way he is alive."
So after 44 years years my most vivid memory of JFK's death was Mr. Craft and his barely contained glee.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 05:30 PM

So, Spaw, I see you have seen fit to cast all caution to the winds and speak the unspeakable...namely that you happened to drop a little comment there in regards to the JFK assassination about "the Pygmy Cannibals with blow darts and ties to the Aryan Nation".

Well! I thought you had some sense of normal prudence, some vestigial measure of judgement and rationality, some meagre inclination to actually survive long enough to pass into your dotage...

I thought you were at least as circumspect, for example, as Olive Stone, a man who knows exactly where and when to stop...

But, no. You had to go that one step further. You had to open your big mouth and blab. You had to unlock the key on Pandora's Box and lift the lid. You had to sing like a friggin' Neapolitan lark on Palm Sunday.

Let me put this as succinctly as I can, old pal.

You're fucked! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Beer
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 05:33 PM

Donuel.
Heavy, I'm lost for words. Something you surely wouldn't forget.
Beer (adrien)


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 06:49 PM

Donuel, it was quite evident to me also that some people were at least secretly very pleased when John Kennedy was killed. I was living in a part of upstate New York that was quite solidly Republican, very right wing, and most of the people there detested John Kennedy. Only a few, however, were crass enough to make it fairly obvious at the time that they were glad he was dead.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: fumblefingers
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 07:37 PM

If the JFK murder was a conspiracy, then it was a good one. People talk and are eventually found out. The same goes for RFK. Nobody has been able to tie Sirhan to anyone else.

The King killing was likely a conspiracy. James Earl Ray was a thief, and didn't amount to much. Someone probably had to finance his escape to Canada, buy his fake passport and pay for his trip to England. He was way out of his depth to be acting alone. I think it was planned for him to be captured in UK. A guy with an accent like his stood out big time.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 09:09 PM

I recall talking to a number of people who were overjoyed about Dr. King's assassination, and I lived in Ore-gone at the time. I showed up for work, not knowing about the incident, and my boss met me with a great big grin, and said, "They got the spook."


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 09:09 PM

"People talk and are eventually found out."

Yeah. But what if they talk to someone and almost no one listens? (meaning, the mainstream media and the *officially recognized* authorities on the matter give it no coverage, no recognition and no credence)

Well, then, it appears to the general public as if no one has talked, doesn't it?

That's the power of media coverage or the lack of it. That's the power of official recognition by authoritative bodies such as the Warren Commission...or not official recognition by such bodies.

That's how a coverup is done, if it is managed at a higher government level...simply by controlling the information that reaches the mainstream. It is not done by ensuring that no one talks (although that would be the ideal objective), it is done by ensuring that virtually no one listens to anyone who DOES talk...and virtually no one reports it...and the very few who do are dismissed as cranks and "conspiracy theorists"...and their careers suffer accordingly. They become outcasts in their chosen profession.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 09:59 AM

By Jove, LH, I think you've got it!


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: pdq
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 01:28 PM

You may be correct on that point, Little Hawk. That would help explain why one of the most important stories in half a century was published in...

                        Rolling Stone


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Rog Peek
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 03:45 PM

"That Was The President" that was the man

Phil Ochs


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 03:59 PM

Yeah, pdq, I read that Rolling Stone article awhile back. Very interesting, to say the least.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: pdq
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 04:06 PM

We, as private citizens, have very little chance of knowing what really happened, and time will make thing harder to sort out, not easier.

I seem to remember the picture of Lyndon Johnson taking the presidential oath on the plane back to DC. Beside him was Mrs. Kennedy, and the look in her eyes appeared to say "you bastard!".


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 04:48 PM

Fumble fingers,

You have perhaps inadvertantly strengthened my arguments...

No,no one has connected Sirhan to anyone else... That is my point... No one has... But I don't see where anyone actaully ever did... No, RFK dead... Sirhan did it... End of discussion...

Same with the Warren Commision... End of discuss...

Same as MLK... Ray did it... End of discussion...

Shoot, our country spent more tax dollars harassing Bill Clinton over a friggin' blow job than it did in investigating the assasinations of these 3 ***liberal*** leaders of the 60's???

WHY??? This is ****NOT**** an unreasonable question!!!

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: pdq
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 05:51 PM

Sirhan Sirhan


"God is with those who persevere." - The Koran

"Sirhan Bishara Sirhan was born March 19, 1944, in Jerusalem, Palestine, the fifth son of Bishara and Mary (Muzher). The family practiced Jordanian Christianity, but belonged to the Arab-based society in the divided region. As a child, Sirhan saw the state in which he lived blistered by upheaval – he saw entire villages dissipated in the Jewish-Arab war. He would be 12 years old before his family earned U.S. visas and, as Palestinian refugees, arrive in the New World. Living briefly in New York City, the Sirhans eventually moved west to California.

According to investigative writer Dan E. Moldea in The Killing of Robert F. Kennedy, young Sirhan was abused as a boy by his father, who seemed unable to understand American customs and, therefore, grew resentful of this new life. Deserting his wife and family, he eventually returned to his homeland. Mary Sirhan, faced with the prospect of raising her children by herself, got a job as a teacher's aide in a Pasadena nursery school and, by all accounts, worked hard and learned fast.

Her son Sirhan was quiet and polite, a good student, and had many friends. At John Muir High School, he studied two difficult languages, German and Russian, and, as a side activity, joined the California Cadets, "a type of high school ROTC," as Moldea explains. He enjoyed the Cadets' occasional trips to the National Guard Armory, where students were allowed to shoot .22 caliber rifles at practice targets.

In 1963, Sirhan Sirhan enrolled in City College, but generally ducked, instead hanging out at a local Denny's restaurant with fellow AWOLs. His college education slid; he quit in early 1965 when his sister Aida, whom he adored, was stricken with leukemia.

Sirhan worked frequently, but at low-paying jobs – as a salesman for a health food store or a groomsman at the Santa Anita Racetrack. He loved the latter and wanted very badly to become a jockey. Although his small physical stature was ideal, he lacked the nerve, according to an acquaintance. After a series of horse-riding accidents, which sent him to the hospital, his career dreams ended. Nevertheless, Sirhan continued to hang out at the track, sometimes betting away his entire check on one or two races. The most money he purportedly owned at any one time was a $1,700 settlement check after falling off a horse. Of possessions, his only one was a 1956 DeSoto.

Religiously, his doctrines changed often, the ones holding the longest interest being Baptist, Seventh Day Adventism and several forms of occultism.

"As an alien, Sirhan did not have the right to vote in America," Moldea says. "Although he felt strongly about the Middle East situation and expressed the belief that he was 'disenfranchised from the American establishment,' Sirhan did not belong to a political party. But (it appeared that he) supported the Baath Party, which operated in the Middle East."

As for his motive in killing Robert Kennedy, the SUS sought that amid the lines of scratch on the pages of his notebooks. Scrawlings between their covers brought hard accusation. They read, "RFK must die," "Robert F. Kennedy must be assassinated before June 5, 1968," and "My determination to eliminate RFK is becoming more (and) more of an unshakable obsession…(He) must be sacrificed for the cause of the poor exploited people."

Through witness interviews, the SUS discovered that Sirhan had attended two previous Kennedy assemblies. One fellow remembered seeing Sirhan at one, looking "completely out of character…very intense and sinister." And another person placed him at a June 2 speech, two days before the assassination.

The overall finding of the SUS, then, is pretty much defined in Lt. Pena's words: "Sirhan was a self-appointed assassin. He decided that Bobby Kennedy was no good because he was helping the Jews. And he was going to kill him."



{Remember, this was June 1968, about one year after the Arab-Israeli war that few Arabs believed they could lose. They blamed the US.}


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 06:51 PM

Okay, pdq... Who wrote that??? An FBI agent whoes paycheck was signed J. Edgar Hoover???

This is my point...

Yes... "The Story" is there but tell me how much money and now many hours have been spent since 1968 in verifying "The Story"...

Is that too much to ask???

I mean, what... Are we just to accept "The Storys" forever, regardless of the truthfullness of them???

Do I have any evidence that "The Story" is false??? No, I don't... Fo you have any evidence that "The Story" is true??? No, you more than likely, don't...

That is why millions of Americans look abck at the 60's as a time where the left stoood up, got shot down litereallu and figureatively, and then the shooters got to frame "The Story" to their liking...

And then to be sure that "The Storys" were'nt challenged they put together an effective PR campaign to discredit anyone who didn't believe "The Story" as luney "Conspiarcy Theoryist" who see some kind of conspiracy under every rock... The reality is that isn't the case at all... But the PR thing was used as a ***push back*** against anyone who didn't buy into "The Story"...

I'm gald this thtread was started because, yeah, I have been a victim of that PR campaign and didn't go to websites where folks have been asking these questions but, hey, I'm at the age where looking back (and being there) "The Story" no longer adds up...

I think it is time to reopen the assisination cases of the 60's while there are still folks alive who have information that can be used to set the record straught and if there are folks till alive who were involved in these cowardly muders that these folks be outed before they escape to the next life...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 10:19 PM

"God is with those who persevere." - the Koran

They say that in every religion, don't they?


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 10:33 PM

"'The overall finding of the SUS, then, is pretty much defined in Lt. Pena's words: "Sirhan was a self-appointed assassin. He decided that Bobby Kennedy was no good because he was helping the Jews. And he was going to kill him.'"

               This seems to be an ongoing theme. Why would Sirhan think RFK was helping the Jews? It doesn't make sense. Of course it's easy to argue that these people were unbalanced; then one doesn't have to explain anything.

               I agree with Little Hawk and Bobert. None of this adds up for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 11:08 AM

I think that it is entirely possible that there are Black Ops departments in the intelligence community (CIA) which look around for borderline individuals, insecure people with unstable personalities whom they can use either as assassins...or as patsys to set up to take the fall for an assassination. These individuals would need to have certain vulnerable qualities, such as: being a loner, being paranoid, carrying deep resentments and feelings of persecution, being alienated from most people, being in need of cash...etc...

Now take such an individual and work with him over a period of several years to gradually increase your control over him. Keep it all completely secret and off the record. Make sure that he knows little or nothing about who is really controlling him and and supplying him with money...or why they are doing it. Encourage his vanity and his delusions. Use various brainwashing techniques on him to steer him in what for you is a useful direction.

Then, when the time comes, point him like a weapon at the target of your choice or place him near the violence when it happens.

And then cut him loose...

If he turns out to have too troublesome a tongue afterward, despite the little he knows...send another one to kill him.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 08:02 AM

LH - This sounds like something you've given a lot of thought to. It also sounds perfectly plausible. Home grown, internal Manchurian Candidates.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 08:16 AM

I'm sure that such things have happened, and it's not just a question of the CIA. There are a number of other covert organizations which might have engaged in such activities, with or without connections to the CIA. There's a whole network of paramilitary and intelligence and counter-intelligence type outfits involved in training people for moving weapons, moving drugs, laundering money, spying, setting up paramilitary forces in Third World countries, setting up coups in Third World countries, carrying out assassinations, supplying personnel for death squads and interrogation...it goes on and on.

Look into the history of Guatemala, for instance, or Panama, or Nicaragua, or Chile, or Peru, or Southeast Asia, or Iran...

Now, these people do not just work outside of the USA. They work within the USA as well, and they represent some of the most dangerous and powerful people in the country.

If a president gets seriously in the way of those people, I'm sure they have a number of ways to remove him from office.

The important thing I would think in such organizations is that the underlings, the foot soldiers, know as little as possible...only enough to do their part of the job. That way they don't become much of a security risk if they get caught.

I think that Lee Harvey Oswald was one of those underlings...a little fish that got caught up in a very big scheme, and one not of his own making.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 08:49 AM

That has been my point all along, LH...

David Hinkley, at least, had a somewhat believable, carzy as he was, story...

The others??? Haven't heard a motive yet that falls into the "somewhat believable" category... Just "The Story"...

When one looks at the overall effect that the killing of the "Big Three" had on the politics and policies of our country there is no doubt in my mind that the folks who ordered up these assasinations effectivel;y stopped a movement that would have led to kinder and gentler nation of caring people... This was their motive... It was money 'cause in order to have a kinder and gentler nation of caring people "culure" has to change and once it has changed then the logical next step in looking at how we deistribute wealth...

This was all about money... Just as the Iraq war is all about money...

The sad thing is that the same people (or their kids) still have the power today to knock off anyone who might get close to changing the "culture" of greed...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 02:22 PM

""God is with those who persevere." - the Koran
They say that in every religion, don't they? "

Hmmmm ... I don't really know .... interesting though.

Anyone wanna to take on the task of verifying LH's statement?

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 02:40 PM

Bobert--and some others here--never fails to not surprise me. John (not David) Hinkley is plausibly crazy enough to attempt a lone assassination for love of a movie star. Sirhan is not plausibly crazy enough to be the lone assassin of RFK for love of country. Oswald is not plausibly crazy enough to act to impress Communist Russia or Cuba. God, give me a break here!


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 03:09 PM

Simply raising possibilities, John. It's possible that any of those people could have acted alone. It's also possible that one or another of them did not act alone. An assassination is far more likely to succeed, I think, when it is planned and carried out by well-trained professionals. Read the Rolling Stone article that the link was provided to awhile back in this thread...the interview with E. Howard Hunt's son...it's very interesting.

Number 6 - Not only in every religion, but in every positive philosophy known to man is embodied that same principle...that perseverance is the key to success. It's just common sense. Accordingly, it is found in all religions.

"God helps those who help themselves" is a common way of putting it. Every religion and every positive philosophy attempt to instill in people attitudes of perseverance, steadfastness, and determination.

Matter of fact, even the most vicious and negative philosophies have attempted to instill that attitude in their followers. Hitler, for instance, was big on the concept of perseverance...even to the point of being totally unrealistic about it when declining military situations for the Germans had passed way beyond any hope of recovery.

And so were Stalin and FDR and Tojo and Churchill and Patton big on perseverance. Hell, they all were... ;-)

Nixon: "When the going gets tough, the tough get going."

It's clearly a sentiment that can be used, as most strong sentiments can, for both good and evil purposes....keeping in mind that everyone always seems to think that HIS purposes are among the good ones... ;-) It's a universal conceit.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 06:21 PM

John,

What LH said... Had Hinkley been a trained assasin he would have gotten the job done... He was only 6 feet from Reagan, for gosh sakes... He not only didn't get the job done but in his amatuerish attempt shot up everything around Reagan as well...

This isn't the kinda product the CIA or other intellegence agencies put out...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 07:17 PM

Like I said...


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 07:42 PM

Agreed, John...

My lexdexia kicked in and I misread yer post...

Sorry...

Yes, seems that you, LH and I are on the same page here...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 07:53 PM

Gee, Beer/Adrien, thread kind of went off track with the usual *suspects* didn't it. Oh well, thanks for starting it, anyway. IT was good to read some of the earlier memories posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Amos
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 08:09 PM

I just figured it out. Barack Obama is the reincarnation of JFK!!

Now it all makes sense.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 08:12 PM

Well, gol danged, kat...

I waited until seemed that everyone got to do there "where-were-you" post before steppin' in with my "usual suspects" posts...

And I did do the obligatory "where-were-you" post so...

... I reckon that even bein' a "usual suspect", which BTW ain't all that bad to be and much better than bein' Lee Harvey hisself, that I deserve at the very least, 1/2 a point!!! Yes, I see where I don't get an actual whole point but a half a point is only fair...

I will say, however, that if it weren't fir the "usual suspects" this thread would be well on it's way to a sight-seein' tour of the Titanic...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 08:49 PM

Sorry Bobert, my last post refered to my previous post of 2:40pm; I don't believe we agree here. Did like your story about diagramming sentences, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 09:16 PM

Wish it were a "story", John... Unfortunately, it is/was the thruth an' it sucked...

But, hey, good to know that we *don't* agree... I like you just fine but if I find myself agreein' with ya' then it hurts my head a' plenty...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 09:21 PM

ummm..Hinkley was more like 20-25 ft. from Reagan.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 09:24 PM

"...ummm..Hinkley was more like 20-25 ft. from Reagan."


                        Too bad!


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 09:36 PM

Not so fast! Who was Reagan's VP at the time? You always have to keep such things in mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 11:01 PM

Oh yeah!


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 06:06 PM

Well, it wasn't Dick Cheney, that much is for sure...

I remember when Bush was selected by his daddy's Supreme Court people were sayin', "Well, gol danged... At least we have Cheney in there to keep the boy from runnin' a muck..."

Boy, those were the good ol' days... Now, Cheney is Bush's best insurance that he'll be able to get outta the Washington in one piece... No one wants Dick Cheney anywhere near "the button"...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 01:43 PM

JFK waged a war against Vietnam. He, along with his brother, tried to assisinate the President of another country: Cuba. Against MLK, JFK is not worth one piece of DNA. MLK fought for an end to racial discrimination, poverty, and the war in Vietnam, not for high office, but because he thought it was morally wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 01:59 PM

The great thing about John Kennedy was simply this: he had the ability to inspire the ordinary public and make people believe in their future and the future of their country. That is a very valuable quality for any politician to have, and it can have incalculable effects upon a country...for better or for worse...depending on how it's used. In Kennedy's case, I think it was having good effects overall upon the USA, regardless of the fact that I agree with your criticisms of some of his foreign policy decisions, RR.

I think he was therefore a far better leader for the USA than either Johnson or Nixon, for example. They did not possess the ability to inspire the ordinary public...and they were, I think, equally dangerous in regards to foreign policy...if not more so.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:26 PM

LH - I agree, but I don't think you'd have to go too high on the ladder to get better than Johnson or Nixon. Though in the end, I think history will treat Nixon better than Johnson.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:57 PM

One reason he was better than Johnson, who may have been a better manipulator, and Nixon, perhaps a better underhanded cad, and Reagan, and Bushes 1 and 2, is that he thought, and he reflected on such issues as high principles and optimum solutions. While he was not without serious error, such as the Bay of Pigs, he had and showed some virtues of character that have scarcely been seen in Washington since. He was far more articulate than either Nixon or Johnson (or the Bushes or Carter or Reagan, for that matter) which meant people could understand what he thought, also, instead of feeling he was obsessively hiding things. Even when he may have been hiding things!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:18 PM

Right on, Amos. You could say those things about Bobby too. They were both intelligent men, good communicators, and people who had the guts to take on a tough situation and meet it head-on.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:23 PM

Kennedy had charm, charisma and looks. So what. He tried to assisnate Castro which makes him and his brother little better than gangsters.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:29 PM

Most politicians are gangsters, RR. ;-) A lot of Latin American leaders have been assassinated by agents of the USA, and it has happened on just about every presidential watch, but I think Ronald Reagan's term in office may have been the worst of them when it came to that.


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:21 PM

I don't put either Kennedy on the same moral plain as Dr. King but between the two, Bobby was one heck of a lot closer than JFK... And Bobby, by the time he decided to run for president had cut loose alot of the bagage and would have, IMO, made one of the best, if not the best, presidents this country ever had... And RFK would have, IMO, found a way to partner up with Dr. King and take this country beyond the racisim that is still rampant in America... I believe this deeply...

And that is, IMO, why RFK was assasinated...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:45 PM

"...but I think Ronald Reagan's term in office may have been the worst of them..."


                  Yes, it was. What were his handlers trying to do in Latin America, anyway?


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Subject: RE: BS: J.F.K., 44 Years Today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 06:12 PM

They were trying to make the world more profitable for Big Business.


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