BS: Noise nuisance

Subject: BS: Noise nuisance
From: MBSLynne
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 03:48 AM

Ok guys, I have a problem and I really don't know what to do about it.
The house next door to ours and attached jupstairs but not down, is owned by a guy with whom we have had serious troubles for 13 years. We have taken him to court on one occasion to make him sign an undertaking not to come onto our land or damage our property.

Four years (I think) ago, he moved in with his girlfriend a few miles away but still owns the house. Presumably because the house stands empty, he has radios and lights on timers, I guess to make it seem as though it's occupied. We believe ( znd I don't think it's paranoia) that it's also aimed to cause us problems since the radio is upstairs and his windows are double glazed so no one from outside can hear it anyway. It happens to be in the room next to my daughter's bedroom and can also be heard quite clearly in my husband's office.

It used to come on at 6.30am, go off at about 9.30 on again at 11.00 off at 3.00 on at 4 and off at 9.00. Since the clocks changed he hasn't changed the timers so it now comes on at 5.30. It's waking my daughter up and annoying her so much that she has now taken to sleeping in the sitting room, which is really not ideal.

We've had environmental health out but because the noise is below a certain decibel level it doesn't constitute a statutory nuisance so there appears to be nothing we can do about it. The thing is, it's not the loudness of it but the fact that it's there at the same times seven days a week and playing music and talk that we don't particularly want to listen to. It's disturbing my husband's work and my daughter when doing her homework.

So....what can we do? Help!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: GUEST,Wicked
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 04:17 AM

If his meter box is outside, open it, cut the seal on the main fuse, blow it by shorting it across a car battery (wear protective clothing- BIG bang), put it back. If you carefully cut through the lead part of the seal, you can fake it with a scrap of roofing lead so only an observant expert could tell if it's an internal wiring fault- you can practise on your own first. Wear latex gloves to avoid fingerprints.

You could take the opportunity while the wiring is off to bypass his meter, so that when he calls out the electricity board to fix the fuse he has a bit of explaining to do....

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Bert
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 04:35 AM

Every time it comes on at 5:30 - call the police.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 06:09 AM

Ring the police and tell them you can hear noise coming from a house you know to be unoccupied.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: MBSLynne
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 07:13 AM

The police (Who these days come the 20 or so miles from Leicester since our local station closed) won't do anything. They've failed to act on numerous occasions when offences HAD been committed, not only to us. He's committed assault several times, once on a 15 year old kid, and he's issued death threats via text but the police won't do anything because he is manic depressive and they're scared to death of anything that even touches on mental illness.

I like your suggestion Wicked. If the law won't help us then we have to take the law into our own hands. Not sure where his meter box is. You can't usually get into meter boxes though. There's a special key.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: kendall
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 07:21 AM

I don't know how it is done in the UK, but over here, I would go to the Police station and demand to be given a complaint form. That way, you are the signer, not the useless cops.
Failing that, I would go to the district attorney, or to the attorney general.
Get his girlfriend's number and call her everytime the radio comes on.

Can YOU fake mental illness?

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 07:24 AM

I was going to say exactly the same as LTS but if the police won't do anything I would do something myself. Wicked's idea is good.

I did do something myself some years ago when one of our neighbours was being particularly difficult. It worked a treat. However, you do have to be prepared to tell the odd fib!

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: GUEST,Wicked
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 07:41 AM

Lynne, the key isn't that special. You can buy them readily from electrical suppliers; next time you're in Leicester ask for a universal cabinet key- they cost about seven or eight quid for a posh one. Or get one here, a bit pricey (plus VAT plus postage). In extremis PM EmmaB, who knows me, and I'll sort one out for you. But case the house first to make sure the box IS outside.

If it's just revenge you want, get hold of a length of the transparent tube that's used for home brewing etc, and a can of expanding foam. Attach the tube to the dispenser tube on the can, stick it down his drain so it goes well round the bend, and squirt well. Do the job properly and it will cost him thousands by the time they've located the blockage!

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 07:48 AM

There's revenge, retribution and there's petty vandalism.. it's a fine line and you can guarantee that it's not you who will be the victim as far as the law is concerned.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: The PA
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 07:50 AM

Pity you can't gain access to the property and switch everything on - low or no volumn where appropriate, and run him up a hugh bill. The speaking clock in Australia, or this country, springs to mind.


Know any friendly squatters looking for winter accommodation?


You have my sympathy, nothing so bad a bad neighbours.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 08:08 AM

you can guarantee that it's not you who will be the victim as far as the law is concerned

The trouble is that the police may have shown no interest up until now but if you do just one thing then it is guaranteed that they will suddenly decide action is needed. Things don't always seem fair and they will NOT see you as a victim.

You have to weigh everything up first. You could try the citizen's advice bureau, they do provide some legal advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 08:17 AM

If you know where he lives now, seek expert Legal advice towards a High Court Injunction, Costs against this antisocial neighbour.

We had a smilar thing years ago where we then lived.   It takes time, but failure to comply with the instructions in an Injunction amounts to Contempt of Court ; for which, Board and Lodging at her Majesty's expense, until the Court decides that the contemnor has purged his contempt.

Start, as has been suggested, at your CAB, with a view to being referred to the Duty Solicitor.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: danensis
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 04:18 PM

Judging by this article: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/humour.html#foam

a small hole drilled through the wall and some expanding foam should quieten the radio.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 06:09 PM

The house we now live in, and have lived in for 20+ years, used to have a neighbor problem insofar as my neighbor's son, then about 22, lived away from home and used to use his father's house for drum practice. I thought I would go mad!!!! I think I could have stood it if I knew WHEN he was going to paly the f---ing drums........but be wouldn't deal -- he said he had the right to play whenever and how ver he felt like it. What saved us is moving to England for 5 years --- while I was there before my husband arrived he called to tell me the house was on the market.!!!! It didn't sell and was still owned by the same people when we came back 5 years later but the drummer grew up and STOPPED DRUMMING.....thanks be to God.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 06:30 PM

Tell the gas board you can smell gas coming from his house.

They WILL gain entry....

He must leave heating on, to stop pipes freezing in winter. Can you surreptitiously access his outside stopcock and turn the water off? Sooner or later the boiler will run dry.....

Tell the taxman (or benefit fraud line) he must be taking in lodgers because you hear the wireless every day...

Actually, Bryn is right.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: folk1e
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 07:03 PM

Do NOT do the fuse trick ..... all that will happen is one of the service team will roll up and replace it without comment or cost! Pulling the fuse out and throwing it away ......Hmmmmm.
Now an opened bag of shellfish posted by someone would be a problem fairly soon ........ but that is getting silly!
If you know their address calling his new neighbours to tell him there is a problem ........ No that is just NOT NICE!
Calling them every time the noise starts sounds good though!
How about your local MP?

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: GUEST,p
Date: 23 Nov 07 - 07:29 PM

Empty house drawing power? Sounds like dope farming - plod may be more interested than in possible intruders.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: fisheye
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 05:07 AM

I am sure there must be a few nasty nice people around that would love to know a property is empty. Then you could do the honorable thing and inform the police.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 06:21 AM

I don't think timers and radios are worth stealing. The police might suspect.
Whatever you do - remember you won't be able to close every loophole - especially when more people are involved. So be careful and detailed. Like being at a folk festival when anything happens next door. Better still get a spot in a singaround and sing something memorable.

And don't post on the Mudcat. Oh, er, hello officer.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 08:36 AM

FWIW foam in the drain is a bit of a giveaway. What it needs is natural substances. How about sludge from the Canal bed, you have one of them to hand. Rotting leaves, cess (er - maybe not). A simple syringe needs to be constructed. Maybe pumped with air.

Infestation of bugs, mice etc - call the council to deal with. Now how do you encourage wasps? But anything done may spread before it is dealt with.

These are temporary revenge and if your neibour is paranoic (likely) it won't go un-noticed.

I don't recommend anything electrical (as an MIEE myself) but here's a thought. When the 3 phase supply down our road lost a neutral some houses got 20 volts and some 400 volts. Some folks got melted radio alarm clocks, & I got to replace power packs for telephones. Once the power is disconnected who's to say what voltage gets injected. And a blown fuse is logical evidence.
But don't do this at home - not even if it is not yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 10:10 AM

Aussie houses are now required to have earth leakage detectors. These switch off the power when a fault occurs. They also have a 'test button' which also switches off the power...


Musta been an earth leakage, you see...

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Bert
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 10:58 AM

If the police won't do anything after calling them - call your local councillor every time it happens. A few times of being called at 5:30 should get some action. If that doesn't work then escalation is the name of the game. Go up the chain of command - Your MP certainly won't like being called at that hour.

Just be nice and polite every time and ask them what can be done about it.

Call your Doctor and tell him the guy needs to be committed.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 05:01 PM

GUEST,Wicked, you have a devious and cruel mind!

I LIKE that!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 05:29 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 07:42 PM

Find some lovely people who would love to buy or rent the place and who would make him a nice offer. If someone waves cash under his nose, that might start some wheels turning.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 08:58 PM

Hi Lynne
Sorry to hear about your problem.
How about a quiet word to some of the local homeless? They seem to have various techniques to enable entry to unoccupied properties!
They may not be the best of neighbours but they usually sleep late, although they do tend to make quite a bit of noise at night.

Colyn.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: MBSLynne
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 10:42 AM

I've thought of quite a lot of the above suggestions but there are usually good reasons why they either wouldn't work or would bring more problems down on our heads. don't forget this guy has assaulted several people. We don't want to be on the list.

Wicked, I checked, his electricity meter must be inside. Strange though...they are only supposed to do 4 extimated reading in a row before insiting on a proper one and I'm damned sure he hasn't had anyone round. Things like that or officila letters he just completely ignores.

Richard, telling anyone we can smell gas would cause quite a lot of surprise since there is no gas in the village!

I've thought about suggesting in the right places that there is an empty house if they want to either break in and steal everything or squat, but I don't know anyone to drop the word to.

Believe it or not, he has no heating in the house. There's no central heating only a coal fire so no one is going to want to rent the place4 anyway. It must be damp and probably smelly by now. He is unlikely anyway to go through all the officila stuff to make sure both he and a tenant are safeguarded.

I think possibly the CAB may be a good idea. Trouble is that taking him to court is not an option unless we can be 100% sure of winning AND claiming costs, cos we haven't even got enough to pay our bills at the moment so certainly can't afford things like solicitors.

I just wish I could find an easy and invisible way to get in to the house and just turn off the timers. If I could do it every time he turns them on...no other damage or sign of entry......he may give up in the end. I wondered about getting in through the roof space but there is a solid wall between him and us.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 06:56 PM

It's only attached to your house upstairs? That is to say, above the ground (what in the States we would call the first) floor? So it would kinda look like the lower case letter n?

If the inside is wet and starting to stink, as you suspect, I'd notify the health officials. A good squirt of butyric acid (essence d'fromage, so to speak) or some limburger cheese judiciously rubbed would lend credence to your complaint. For the limburger I'd suggest the door knobs, window sills, and any outside meter box (let the meter reader report it).

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Peace
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 06:58 PM

"Four years (I think) ago, he moved in with his girlfriend a few miles away but still owns the house. Presumably because the house stands empty, he has radios and lights on timers, I guess to make it seem as though it's occupied. We believe ( znd I don't think it's paranoia) that it's also aimed to cause us problems since the radio is upstairs and his windows are double glazed so no one from outside can hear it anyway. It happens to be in the room next to my daughter's bedroom and can also be heard quite clearly in my husband's office.

It used to come on at 6.30am, go off at about 9.30 on again at 11.00 off at 3.00 on at 4 and off at 9.00. Since the clocks changed he hasn't changed the timers so it now comes on at 5.30. It's waking my daughter up and annoying her so much that she has now taken to sleeping in the sitting room, which is really not ideal."

Cut his power.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 07:35 PM

Lynne, there has to be something legal you can do. Just has to be. I'd not have put up with this for 4 years. No way.

What if you took a Sawz All and cut a hole in the marriage wall upstairs? Then patched it over? Say you were looking for a secret room or something because of the noise, uninhabited house, etc...? Well, it was YOUR wall!

I think the notify a homeless person is a great idea! I know I'd come up with something. After all, I did 'come up with something' for the uninhabited, uninhabitable, run down, falling apart health hazard across the alley from us.......one of those don't ask don't tell things.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 07:51 PM

I'm not sure about the rules in other countries, but definitely here in Oz, there must be normally some externally accessible switch that will cut the power - in case of fire, etc. Usually the meter must be externally accessible too.

I do however have a friend that had a nutter acquaintance, who thought it funny to regularly pull out all her fuses. She checked, and had all the fuses replaced by circuit breakers, including the main, and as far as I know all of them were put on the inside of the wall, leaving only the meter on the outside.

I still say "ELCB".... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Bert
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 11:29 PM

Find out where he works and call his boss - every time it happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 12:55 AM

Too many of these solutions look like they'd come home to roost at Lynne's house or impact her own welfare or comfort.

I don't suppose you could send an advertisement to the local newspaper that the house is for lease (name a reasonable low price, to encourage queries), and give the girlfriend's phone number? If there is interest in renting (or buying) perhaps bringing it to his attention might encourage him to rent (hopefully to someone you could stand) or sell.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 12:57 AM

Oh--I forgot to say--get the ad pricing information in advance. I would send the announcement and a money order of some sort, don't call in the ad or go in person. Don't use your credit card or check to pay for it. It isn't that you need to be undetectable, but you don't want to have your name all over it, either.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 03:31 AM

If you are in a position of not covering bills, you might well get legal aid and/or the Citizens Advice Bureau may be able to help. Look for the solicitors with the little free legal advice logo in the widnow, and check the cost before seeing them. It is the best bet.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: MBSLynne
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 03:36 AM

We are really quite scared to give him any cause for thinking it's us cos he'd come back at us for sure. It would be best to do something which looked like it could just be a chance happening.

Sorch, I've lost all faith in the law in this country. The authorities are so keen on doing people for stupid and unnecessary things they have no time or interest in real problems. I think the former are easier or something. And it's unfortunately true here these days that the law does more to protect perpetrators than victims.

Trouble with getting in touch with anyone who then has to get in touch with him is that he just totally ignores them. Mostly they try several times then give up. When we were going through the court action with him, the solicitor used to send him letters and received no response, even when he ended up having them hand-delivered. At this house and where he lives now, he won't answer the door if he's in.

Yes Rapaire, there's a sort of passageway between his house and ours downstairs...what we call an 'entry' here.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: nickp
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 04:51 AM

Get in touch with the local council - environmental health section (I think) or if they have a customer services option start there with it being a noise nuisance. Try and get an EH officer to visit and hear when the radio is on.

I like Bert's idea of getting your local councillor involved but try the council before the councillor.

Nick

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: MBSLynne
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 07:40 AM

Nick I've already done all that. All they are interested in is volume. This isn't loud enough to constitute a stautory nuisance. They aren't bothered that it's on at 5.30 and there most of the time 7 days a week. I suspect that anyone in officialdom that I contact about it will just say that, because it's not above a certain decibel level they can't do anything.

Apparently the World Health Otganisation sayd that below a certain decibel level music aids restful sleep. This entirely ignores the fact that it's not all music since it's radio. Personally I think even that depends on the type of music.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Skivee
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 01:15 PM

Sound-proof the mutual wall from your side?
High density injectable foam, heavy sheetrock?
Think of it as constructing an isolated sound studio in reverse.
Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: MBSLynne
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 02:44 PM

Couldn't afford it. we have no money

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: jeffp
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 03:33 PM

Kill him. From what you say, you will have nothing to fear from the police.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 03:59 PM

Get shady some soft foam ear plugs?

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 04:11 PM

How about getting a bump key from a locksmith and simply going in and turning off the offending devices? Or turn them down so low that you can't hear them but so that he doesn't necessarily realize they've been tampered with. How often does he go by to check, anyway?

Google search on "bump key."

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: MBSLynne
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 04:47 AM

Hmmm...now that IS interesting SRS. He only comes round every couple of weeks. That really is a good thought. He wouldn't know we'd been in as long as we can lock the door again afterwards. I will look into that, thank you.

Yes, I got Shady ear plugs and she is now back sleeping in her own bed. She didn't wake up till 9 on Saturday morning and that was only when I went to wake her cos we were going out. No wonder she's been so tired. It's not the whole solution to the problem though.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 05:08 AM

Further to that which Richard B wrote earlier : if you are in receipt of any DWP benefit, then there is a real possibility of Legal Aid sounding.

Find out if there is a Neighbourhood Law Centre near you.

Some of the 'New Universities' - i.e. former Polytechnics - frequently hold Legal Clinics, where advice is free or the subject of a low fee or donation. If you are in receipt of any Benefit, then almost certainly any such fee would be waived.

If you wish to PM me, in Absolute Confidence, I might be able to direct you to one, if you are prepared, in any such PM, to give me the locality (e.g. town, city) - NOT your address ! - in which you live.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Bert
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 09:51 AM

If you keep calling his boss (it should only take three of four daily calls)he will stop messing with you before he gets fired.

If he threatens you, up the ante and tell him you have all these American friends with guns so he'd better start being nice to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: GUEST,Wicked
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 03:46 AM

Another thought.... have you had a good look in the roofspace? In older houses, it's often not made up to full height between the houses, and someone (perhaps a resourceful and agile younger person) could crawl through, taking a rope ladder to climb down into the other house. Wear latex gloves, opportunities for devilment or just alter the timers and turn the volume down. Take a portable battery powered vacuum cleaner to eliminate any mess. Clean up behind like the last Red Indian in the file.

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: MBSLynne
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 04:10 AM

Bert... :-)

The man doesn't often have a regular job but lives on social security. He's virtually unemployable for any length of time.

Wicked, I think the wall was built up properly when our house was made into one out of three cottages in the 70s. There's certainly no gap now.

I still like SRS's idea and will pursue it

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: bfdk
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 06:19 AM

Dunno if this applies to England, but over here it's illegal to leave a house or flat uninhabited for more than 6 weeks. If you don't live in your own property, it *must* be offered for rent to others - and if you don't do it voluntarily, the authorities will do it for you..!!

Another idea that might work if the circumstances are right is something I saw on TV a good while ago on a program about how burglars work. They'd go checking if people were in by pointing a remote control at the TV through the window and turning the volume up. Then wait to see if anybody responded and if not, time to go collect the goodies. Now, if you can turn *up* the noise that way, I assume you could turn it down, too, if you had a remote that would operate his radio, and if the radio is placed in a location where you could operate it from outside the window. One of these "multi function, multi model" remotes might just do the trick.

Best of luck with getting the better of this nitwit!

Best wishes,

Bente

Subject: RE: BS: Noise nuisance
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 07:02 AM

If he's living on benefits I wonder who's paying the council tax on the empty property.