Songbooks: Book of lesser known trad. songs?

Subject: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 04:52 PM

I love chorus singing, and the joy of hearing a favourite song. But also, when you've been at the business of singing traditional songs for a good many years and have heard most songs that most folks sing in their many and varied forms, you may, like me, want to discover a book that has a lot of songs that are lesser sung, obscure or relatively unknown (especially English songs, in my case). Has anyone found a book full of such songs, or with a fair number of them? (Most song books I see are full of familar titles.) If so, please do tell!

Seeking and hoping ...

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 05:08 PM

well...ummm...if they are not well known, they are far less likely to be put IN a book.

But there are special, topical books that have some pretty rare & unusual songs.

I have "Songs of the Wexford Coast" for example, which has a lot of songs about barely remembered shipwrecks.

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 05:18 PM

Do they have to be genuinely trad, or could they be relatively recently written for people to sing?

Kitty

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 05:23 PM

Try the book 'Marrowbones' - I know there are some hoary old cheeses in there, but keep looking, there are some that haven't seen the back of a throat for ages.

LTS

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 06:07 PM

I have quite a few of those kinds of books--my father collected them. Slim volumes, sometimes just stapled bindings, others with taped bindings, that he found over the years. Old books with songs popular years ago that may be forgotten now. Some are regional to the point of obscurity.

What kind of songs are you looking for? Country? Era?

SRS

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 07:13 PM

The thing to do is to get to Cecil Sharp House and have a look in the library - There are a few in there that havent seen the light of day for a week or two !

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 07:52 PM

Have you considered browsing through DigiTrad?

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: GUEST,booklynrose
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 08:22 PM

The Library of Congress has a huge collection of traditional music, comparable to the wonderful collections at Cecil Sharp House. You can sit and browse for months. Lots of university libraries have the work of local collectors. We came across a small college just west of Roanoke, Virginia that had music collected from local source singers/musicians, we just saw it mentioned in the tourist guide in a motel.

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Nerd
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 09:31 PM

I would second booklynrose--I work at the Library of Congress's American Folklife Center, and we do indeed have a massive amount of material. One thing I'd recommend is going to our website at loc.gov/folklife, and visiting a few of our online collections. In particular, the Pearl R. Nye collection and the California Gold collection have lots of anglo-american songs...some common, some very unusual.

One thing to point out is that usually well-known songs are well-known for a reason; either they're easier to sing, or easier to understand, or have been edited and transcribed by people who knew what they were doing. When I get into books that have a LOT of songs I've never heard of, often I find that the songs in there are tedious.

As SRS points out, it would also help to know if you have particular interests as to geography, subject matter, etc.

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:49 AM

Thanks so far, folks. It's a bit difficult to nip down to the Library of Congress, as I'm in England, but it's certainly worth considering for the future. Thanks. I'll also go back and have another look through Marrowbones.

Bill D, if songs are not well known, this may be the very reason to put them in a book. I was hoping someone may have done just this for just that reason. Plus, there may be some old dusty overlooked tome published misty years ago with hidden gems that some kind person may be willing to tell us about.

I'm not searching for songs from a particular time but it just so happens that English songs tend to suit me best (being English, probably) - traditional songs or songs in the idiom - but I'm open to anything in general that's in the English language.

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:53 AM

Ian - Bear in mind Peter Bellamy's story about 'On Board a 98' - the story goes that Pter was browsing the library at C S H and found the song , was impressed , and wondered why he had never heard any one sing it . He found someone to play the dots that were included with the lyric and realised why - The original tune was DIRE , Peter simply took the lyric and set anotther tune to it . Good luck with unearthing some more gems .

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: OLDNIC
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 08:59 AM

A trawl of any bookshop charity or a real one if you can find one can be very fruitful
The other scource is your local reference library or Record Office.
Hertfordshire has some cracking songs and Birmingham Ref has an amazing trove
The Baring Gould collection can and does yield some real gems if that is you can be bothered to read the old mans 'orrible writing
Finding new songs(to you that is)can be a wonderful journey
Good Hunting
Old Nic

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 10:37 AM

Back to the sources:

The English and Scottish Popular Ballads (Child)
English folk songs from the southern Appalachians (Sharp)

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Cats at Work
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 10:44 AM

I'll second Old Nic. The Baring Gould collection has a vast quantity of little known songs as very few were published in 'Songs of the West'. Contact Wren Music in Okehampton [I'd do you a blue clicky but I haven't mastered them yet] and speak to them about how to access the collection.

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 11:08 AM

Russ just touched on what I want to mention. If you're looking for obscure English songs then you may want to dig into the pockets of English songs that tended to form in the colonies. The southern Appalachian mountains are famous for this kind of song. Buy a few books (Amazon sells used books, and if you identify a few titles you can go through ABE or any of the other bookfinder web sources) and see if you get lucky.

Also for these sequestered songs--look to see what Mudcatters have been doing. A real gem is Jean Ritchie. She may well be singing the kind of songs you're looking for.

SRS

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 11:19 AM

What Stilly River Sage says.

Also Try the Wolf collection.
http://www.lyon.edu/wolfcollection/ozarks.htm

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: treewind
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 11:21 AM

Here's another one. Though some of the titles will be familiar, they are not always the well known versions.

As someone said further back, if a song is in a book it's probably been sung and well known, though even old favourites like the Penguin book (Now Classic English Songs) and the set of 4 that included Marrow Bones contain some songs that aren't done much.

All the best trad singers do their own research. The VW library at Cecil Sharp House has lots of songs that were collected and never published. Sometimes they are incomplete and you have to piece them together from different versions, or a collected tune with a set of words from the broadside collection at the Bodleian Library

Anahata

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 11:50 AM

Sometimes, going back is BEST!

Dick and Beth BEST put a book together called SONG FEST back in 1948.---It was done for the Intercollegiate Outing Club Association. It's a grand old collection, and one you ought to search for. It preceded the Folksinger's Word Book and, most certainly, it was before "the book"----Rise Up Singing.

This was the first book of songs I EVER bought, and I still look through it fondly finding songs that are, still, in spite of being less than politically correct now, some of my very BEST friends!!!

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: The Doctor
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:56 PM

Roy Palmer has been responsible for a large number of song books. I have more than a dozen. Some are still in print, probably all of them can be found on the internet. They were done on themes, so none is likely to be just the usual collection, and you ought to be able to find something there. Another good source is other people's recordings. I've heard many a good song that way, and then had the fun of tracking the words down so I could learn it.

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 02:46 PM

Frank Purslow's three other books from the Hammond and Gardiner mss. (Constant Lovers, Wanton Seed and The Foggy Dew) have always struck me as being underused - if you can get your hands on them.
If you are prepared to Anglicise Scots songs the Greig-Duncan collection is a relatively untouched gold mine.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 03:20 PM

Art, Song Fest was my father's book of choice for a lot of songs also. When he died he had a number of "go bags" (backpacks) around the house for various music expeditions, depending on where he was headed. In the pack that was either in his car or next to the computer was his old copy of Song Fest. I think it was one of the first books he brought home, after the Penguin Book of English Folk Songs.

But whatever the book, Dad was one of those folks who hated it when someone who was performing a song had to look at the book to sing it. If you're going to sing it in public you need to know it well enough to sing without the book. (Which is why he hated Rise Up Singing--too many people used it that way.)

SRS

Subject: RE: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: GUEST,Chris Holder
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 03:44 PM

Well, yes, there are some folks who use the books or the copied lyrics overmuch and do not take the time to learn them. Most, though, in the sing arounds and song swapping groups I know do not rely on the books overmuch, so I say give the printed page people a shot. Those of us who actually get paid to have this kind of fun enjoy the relaxed atmosphere once in a while.

A second (or third) - perhaps fifth if you fiddle - to Art Thieme's suggestion of "Song Fest" It's a gem. Also, if you're into historical songs, I recommend "A Ballad of America" by John Anthon Scott and John Wardlaw Scott, published by Folksong in the Classroom. Tons of songs, spiral bound and good commentary.

Subject: RE: Songbooks: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 04:04 PM

Just a thought....obscure folksongs are usually obscure for a reason!!

*BG*

Best wishes,


Peter

Subject: RE: Songbooks: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 04:51 AM

Not always Pete.
Some time in the not-too-distant future I hope to see the Carpenter Collection published (which reputedly contains the largest collection of ballads ever collected in the field).
The story goes that when Carpenter lost interest in it, it was stored in his garage until Ken Goldstein found it and bought it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Songbooks: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 04:30 AM

That sounds intriguing, Jim. What's the story?

What came to my mind earlier was the singer of folksongs who, in a bid to be unique, trawls through the books and chooses songs that have fallen into obscurity! (....usually for a good reason!!)

Quite often, however, a set of words with a dodgy tune can be matched with a tune that is linked to dodgy words and a masterpiece is born. Ballad writers in days of yore did it all the time!

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: Songbooks: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 04:59 AM

The story of the Carpenter Collection is here:

http://www.hrionline.ac.uk/carpenter/

Dave Eyre

Subject: RE: Songbooks: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 05:06 AM

Sorry I thought I had made a blicky, let me try that again:

http://www.hrionline.ac.uk/carpenter/

HRI (in case you were wondering is Humanities Research Institute.

Dave Eyre

Subject: RE: Songbooks: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 07:48 AM

Many thanks Dave!

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: Songbooks: Book of lesser known trad. songs?
From: cptsnapper
Date: 07 Jan 08 - 01:51 PM

It might be worth looking out the Frank Kidson collection: contact Brewhouse Records for further information.