Jim Eldon Appreciation Society

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 03:01 PM

Hi Pete!
I might have got it wrong! Maybe it was Brenda and Jim who started the Pete Fletcher fan club! I really like Loaded dice too...but I also like to hear Jim singing traditional song. No preference for either.
I remember Jim saying "My father-in-law used to attribute his rough playing to the fact that he played left handed on a right handed strung fiddle...my rough playing is cos I can't play"    before I get shot down , I'm not agreeing with that, just passing on the quote.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Mike
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 01:32 PM

Somewhere in the back of my memory , I seem to recall Jim saying{or someone told he heard it said} that he tuned the fiddle the same way that some of the travellers had taught him.So he liked to keep it that way.Mike.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Pete Fletcher
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 01:07 PM

You're right I think Ray, Jim is a PC free zone.

Now, nobody take that the wrong way :-)

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: r.padgett
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 12:56 PM

I assume Jim knows nothing of this thread or maybe he int computer literate!

Lifetime obituary then it seems to be

Ray

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Pete Fletcher
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 12:44 PM

I wasn't attributing anything to anyone in particular.
Some people say these things about Jim's music.
As Geoff says, Jim calls it "rough"

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 10:02 AM

Ah finally :-)

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:39 AM

Jim refers to his playing style as "rough fiddle".

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,I Am Agency (not at work obviously)
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 08:20 AM

When I say "scratchy", that is precisely what I mean.
Not out of tune or bad,
Of course I know that this is exactly how Jim Eldon intends it.
Do not attribute words to those who said nothing of the kind.
Especially not to me.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Pete fletcher
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 08:05 AM

>>The Jim Eldon Appreciation Society was started By Brenda Spence and Pete Fletcher at Nellie's (White Horse Folk Club) in the early 80s<<

Well, old git, I can't remember that. (mind you, when you get to my age!!)
Brenda was always doing that,starting "fan clubs" for people she liked, it was just a bit of a joke really. (she even declared a fan club for me once which generated a total membership of one!!)

As for Jim - like it or hate it you can't hardly ignore it. As for his fiddle playing - it's not "bad playing" or "out of key" or "scratchy", it's exactly how Jim intends it or he wouldn't do it like that. He's that kind of bloke.

Anyone who can earn money on Brid pleasure boats busking to the general british holidaymaker can't be getting much wrong. Now that's working for your brass!!!

Personaly? I thing Loaded Dice was the best thing he's done. Custom Car Kid and Pools Win especially

Cheers,

Pete Fletcher

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Surreysinger
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 07:04 AM

Meant to add ....
" It was the kind of mistake anyone could make. "
With my previous work background it occurs to me that ignorance is not bliss - it is no defence in the eyes of the law :-)

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Surreysinger
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 06:50 AM

Whoa ... what an admission ... Agadoo to the tune of anything is pretty bad!!! Call for the taste police immediately, never mind the folk police..........

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 06:10 AM

Agadoo?? Agadoo?
Blimey, whatever next?
"Theres no one quite like Grandma" perhaps!!
"Shuddup a ya Face"
Delightful!
Can't wait for the CD
Regards and thanks for the laughs.
Ralphie

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 05:09 AM

And there's me being tactful, Derek - not wanting to go so far as to actually name the deed...

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Derek Brinkley
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 04:41 AM

Thanks Sean! Ok, I confess. I sang Agadoo to the tune of Mo Roisin Dhu. The room was dark. It was the kind of mistake anyone could make.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Betsy
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 07:57 PM

Jim, I hope you haven't changed too much in all these years, its was always a pleasure hearing you in the presence of Mick and Nancy, McGarry, Jock ,the Watersons and others at the Rugby , not to mention the delightful Trev the landlord. ALL good fun and trad. entertainment.
It must be great getting such a fine obituary BEFORE you have died - which - I hope will be a long ,long time arriving.
Keep doing what you do in the way that you do it - and - Fuck 'em all.
Best wishes,

Betsy

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 04:11 PM

That's the quote I was thinking of, but I couldn't source it! I think it's on the cover Prisons, but all my vinyl's presently in storage.

Thanks, Old Git.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 04:06 PM

Although as Sedayne says it can be a little unsettling at times when he switches from traditional to modern (via his own songs) , it is clear how passionate he is about whatever he is singing. He has never gone in for long intros making this juxtapositioning some getting used to (but good value for money!!)
He has passsion for traditional material (particularly what he has collected) and has definite views about how they should be performed.
One remark attributed to him in the past was "If they can't sing 'em right they should leave the buggers alone."

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:43 PM

>>They who today hear only a scratchy fiddle may by tomorrow recognise the work of true genius<<

What the hell has the fiddle got to do with recognising his work?

I only hear ascratchy fiddle, but on no account have I said that I didn't like Jim. Far from it.

One of my favourite performers is Neil Young and he has a poor voice to say the least, but I just love his work.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:38 PM

Maybe I am at that, WLD - if the foolscap fits after all...

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:12 PM

if I'm a pompous, prissy, complete reactionary - you're a complete twit.

(sorry about the spelling)

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:10 PM

Yo Ralphie - of course we're mates; and I'm Derek's mate too (though I'm still realing rather from his own pop-trad twist delivered at The Shakespeare in Durham some months back). I can see where you're all coming from, just that I'm just trying to maintain some measure of objectivity here; guiding you all to an oasis of impartiality midst the scorching heat of your respective passions, outbursting & otherwise, as our caravan of wise men winds its way across the cultural deserts in pursuit of our particular star.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,I Am Agency (not at work obviously)
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:03 PM

Can't see the point of closing down a thread if it is serving to spread knowledge of this very important and amazing performer.
They who today hear only a scratchy fiddle may by tomorrow recognise the work of true genius.
If somebody doesn't like it, well they don't like it but that doesn't make it worthless (which isn't what Dennis/Buchan or whatever said).
Jim Eldon once gave me a song and encouraged me to arrange it for myself.
It's one of the very few I might still do in public to this day.
He's like that. So generous with his music and passionate about it.
Long may that continue.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:38 AM

Hey Sedayne....
I thought we were mates!!!
I'm not sure that reactionary is exactly apt!LOL!
But I do
like the juxtapositon of Jim with Mark E Smith.
In a funny way, they could be bastard twins!
Both live outside of the "normal" world.
And both have their own take of how things should be.
Which makes life so much more fun.
Regards Ralphie
(Oh, and I do like pompous negativity!!)

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:25 AM

The thread's going just fine Bystander - were it not for WLD & Ralphies reactionary outbursts, or indeed 'passionate responses, call 'em what you will. No need to put the thread to bed because the pompous negativity of two people.

Fact is, artists of Jim's calibre invite comment, citicism & opinion, and if someone chooses to express that opinion then they ought to be respected in that, and listened to accordingly, not pounced upon for daring to give voice to what remains an entirely reasonable point in this context - i.e an open discussion on a man who without any evidence of discrimination might go from a considered rendition of (say) the traditional 'The Maid and the Magpie' to a bewildering take on Meatloaf's 'Bat Out of Hell' without any hint of irony in the incongruity of the juxtapositioning.

At times even I might find the resulting tensions a little unsettling, but I humbly defer to the genuine genius of the man - after all, Peter Bellamy did something similar with his Rolling Stones & Blues covers, did he not? And isn't it nice that 'pop' should go 'trad' once in a while? Better that than the other way round, as Jim has pointed out himself on at least once occasion I can think of.

What I'd really like to hear is Jim doing a cover of The Fall's 1977/78 classic 'Bingo Master's Breakout' in which Mark E. Smith sounds uncannily like the great man himself. We might at least speculate on Jim's fondness for The Fall - after all, isn't that a Marc Riley & The Creepers t-shirt he's wearing on the cover of 'The Brid Fiddler'?

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:23 AM

Mr Bystander.
Well said.
Let us all rejoice that Jim exists in this world.
The recording that we did all those years ago, affirmed (for me anyway) that there is a way to bring all music to all people.
Mr Eldon does it with such aplomb.
We're on a road to nowhere.
Long may he continue. And all happiness to all that read this at this time.
Ralphie
(With thoughts for Nigel Chippindale, the man that gave Jim the Brid Gig in the first place)
Noel.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Bystander at work
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 10:38 AM

Re Gry, George Borrow's Romany Dictionary gives the definition as " s. A horse. Sans. Kharu. Hin. Ghora. Irish and Scottish"

Re Sedayne's use of the words "prissy and Pompous" I hesitate to reopen the dialogue, particularly since Ralphie had wisely suggested that it should be put to bed, but I really do feel that their use when applied to his and wld's earlier statements is inaccurate. In my book the words "passionate responses" would be much closer to the mark.

It is inevitable that the inflammatory use of the words "saved" and "improved" with reference to a performer's act/act contents , together with self-avowed use of the word "arrogance" were likely to spark raw nerves on the part of people who know Jim or admire his work, and lead to the sort of outbursts that ensued. Probably a good example of the fact that postings in haste or in anger are never a good idea. Ralphie did at least have the good sense to note that his response was made in anger - and I think probably justifiably so on the basis of what was posted. It is clear from Buchan's (Derek's) later postings that it was not his intent to criticise Jim himself, but to make clear his own likes/dislikes - always a very subjective matter anyway, where there is unlikely to be any right or wrong .

Returning to the welcome discussion of Jim's virtues, may I say that I was lucky enough to hear the Andy Kershaw programme which Ralphie referred to. I have always had some slight misgivings about Jim's fiddle playing, but the programme highlighted what a joy the totality of his performance is; I absolutely loved his apologies for playing a Belinda Carlisle number, and also found that for once I was actually listening to the words of songs that normally ,when performed by their originators, I would not have given a second thought to. I've had the good fortune to have a chat with him on at least a couple of occasions, and have found him to be the nice guy that everyone refers to. Roll on further nice Christmas spirit discussion of the man and his work ... if that's not possible then maybe we can revert to Ralphie's suggestion that the thread should be allowed to quietly go to rest ?

Compliments of the season to all.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 10:23 AM

Thanks the link, Derek - grai, gry, groi - here it is as a clicky:

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/rumney.htm


WLD - It's not what you said that's at issue, rather the somewhat over-reactive tone in which you said it.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 08:41 AM

If saying that applying oneself wholeheartedly to an artform gives you the right to do what you bloody well like is being prissy and pompous... perhaps you need to re-evaluate.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Derek Brinkley
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 08:20 AM

Yes. Gry or (from memory) Gryst means horse in Romany.

see http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/rumney.htm

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 07:45 AM

I heard that too, but having done a search on Google all I came up with was mispellings of 'grey'! Certainly when I sing the song myself, I sing it as 'grye'. I heard it that Grye was an old horse, as in the song, put out to grass...

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 07:28 AM

Sedayne,
I may be imagining this...my memory sometimes plays tricks...but I seem to remember many years ago Jim suggesting that grye was a travellers' name for a horse...but it may be a figment of my imagination. In any case I agree it's a beautiful song

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 05:42 AM

Another thread soiled by Mudcat hysteria. However, the last time I checked with the Association for the Advancement of Free Speech, it's still okay to have an opinion; likewise to express that opinion in a general critical evaluation, such as did Young Buchan, if somewhat polemically. Polemics are also fine, but, alas, the prissy pompous put-downs we've seen from WLD & Ralphie are no longer considered to be helpful in the slightest.

Anyway - back to the thread...

I remember many moons ago Jim telling the story of how he collected The Old Grey Song (Poor Old Horse) in a thronging pub at the Appleby Horse Fair in erstwhile Westmoreland. The scene was one of riotous uproar until one old chap started singing The Old Grey (Grye?) and everyone fell silent. As this beautiful song doesn't appear to be a part of the Mudcat archive, I include it here, pretty much as sung by Jim (on The Brid Fiddler, & elsewhere...) with a couple of extra verses I've picked up over the years.


The Old Grey Song (Poor Old Horse).

Once he was a young horse, he was a young horse in his prime;
and his master used to ride him, and he thought he was very fine.

Chorus:
But he's still my own, bonny sweet, who rode so many the mile;
over hedges, ditches, brooks and bridges, gates and cleared many the stile.
Poor old horse, poor old horse, oh cherry old grey.

And his legs and his irons have all goe to decay;
likewise he poor old body, it's all withered away.

Once he wore the clothing of the lindsay oh so fine;
and his eyes they sparkle, and his mane it did shine.

Out from the warm stable to the fields he has to go;
let it rain, hail, or sun shines, or the winds blow high and low.

Oh, he's stealing all my hay, spoiling all my corn,
He's eating up the long grass that grows against the wall.

They'll beat him, whip him, cut him,
Til the huntsmen let him go.
Poor old horse, poor old horse, oh cherry old grey.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 07:13 PM

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Young Buchan - PM
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 03:53 AM

Jim is a really nice bloke, an important collector of traditional songs, and a very good performer of traditional music.
Regretably someone once told him that he could write songs.
Even more regretably someone once told him it was quite ok for him to do whole sets of his own and other modern stuff.
I also,like Mike O'Leary-Jones, used to walk thirty miles barefoot over glass to hear him. Now I at least tend to keep my shoes on.
Young Buchan,has a right to his opinion,he prefers Jim performing traditional music,what is wrong with saying that.
   as a performer,I accept that I cant please everyone,There are people that like what I perform ,and there are people that dont.
I have been criticised for performing BEATLES material on my concertina,I have been criticised for sounding as if I am singing with a peg on my nose,I have also had hundreds of people tell me what a good singer I am,I also overheard someone say how boring they thought I was, as a performer you take the rough with the smooth.
you have to have a belief in what you do,I know Jim, just like myself does,and I am sure just as I do,he will decide for himself.
my own opinions,may or may not be the same as Buchans,but he has a right to state his opinion,which was not unpleasant merely a preference for that, which he prefers to hear Jim perform,I see nothing wrong with that.
Remember the guy that called Bob Dylan[ Judas] ,ithappens to all of us.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Rfalphie
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 11:55 AM

OK Dennis
Lets just leave it.
Alright?
Life's too short to fight.
Jim is a fine performer
May you, him and me have a quiet and gentle christmas.
And may this thread die quitely and quickly now.
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 08:15 AM

aw come on, don't be like that!

when you've saved Jim, perhaps you could save a few more of us.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Young Buchan
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 06:12 AM

Since Ralph asks so politely, my name is Derek Brinkley.
I will be happy to supply my address to Jim, so he can come and throw stones at my windows should he choose. Actually, of course, he won't because he is, as I said in the original posting (for the benefit of those who choose to read only every fourth word) a really nice bloke.
I don't feel any need to advertise my next performance since I have never criticised Jim as a performer (again to go back to the original posting); I criticised his material. I still do.
However, since criticism is clearly not acceptable to some people in Mudcat I will depart and allow them to run as many mutual appreciation societies as they wish.

Till seven long years are past and over...

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,od git
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 06:11 AM

Villan
you'll have to check with Sue..I only do the MC/Resi bit at Grimsby , not the bookings

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Dec 07 - 03:37 PM

...and on the night of the Liverpool Nativity - can anyone confirm the rumour that Jim once did a cover of Instant Karma?

I have no doubt, of course; I once dreamt of Jim singing 'Here the Deities Approve' from Purcell's 'Welcome to All the Pleasures'.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: peregrina
Date: 15 Dec 07 - 05:31 PM

As a performer, he is unique and charismatic. I am sure his distinctive sound must be a conscious choice.

Unless you've actually seen him before, you've never seen anything like him!

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Dec 07 - 05:24 PM

On the night of the Spice Girls reunion - can anyone confirm the rumour that Jim once did a cover of Wannabe?

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Dec 07 - 02:40 PM

When is he going to be in Lincolnshire then, Geoff.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 15 Dec 07 - 02:26 PM

the other interesting thing about Jim is that ,unlike other artists ,you rarely get the same set twice....even if it's the next day of a tour or the next spot in a festival weekend

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 07:38 PM

I'm just waiting for my pools win....won't I be the blue-eyed boy!!

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 03:08 PM

well at least, we'll know who we must turn to for salvation... the way, the truth and the light.

is there anyone else you'd like us to pray for?

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Sarah, Barnsley
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 02:07 PM

me! i'd join! He's been a hero of mine ever since I heard hin do 'Dancing on the Dark' on Andy Kershaw's programme on Radio 1 way back. I went to a couple of fiddle workshops run by him at Whitby this year too, yet to see him live (one for the list Padgett?)

Sarah :)

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 01:45 PM

Sorry for the Typos.
Sent in anger. But, you probably get my drift

Apologies to all (Except Mr Buchan, whoever he/she is)

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 01:40 PM

Mr Buchan.
My name is Ralph Jordan.
Well known around these parts.
Before you spout your opinions, Surely it would only be reasonable if you were you inform us of your real name.
If you don't feel able to let us all know who you are, and what your agenda is, then, please allow the majority on this board to treat you contributions on this topic with the contempt they deserve.
Please inform us when we can see you performing in public.
Would be illuminating.
Those that can......DO.
Those that can't....WHINGE.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 12:05 PM

"I think he is worth 'saving'..."
saving from what?   He still sings traditional stuff as well as his own material. I don't think he's in need of salvation.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 10:06 AM

Forget what i was saying Buchan - i don't know whether you're arrogant or not. I just thought it was awful thing to say about anybody.. Writing songs is what he has decided to do with his life. he brings quite a lot of abilities and intelligence to the table.

if you feel unable to engage with what he does, well that's how it is sometimes.

there are whole areas of the folk world that wouldn't get on my Christmas shopping list, unless I end up shovelling coal in hell one day. however surely we can all relate to the amount of effort that it takes to be a competent folksinger, of any kind.

Subject: RE: Jim Eldon Appreciation Society
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 09:39 AM

Not intending to get involved with a flame war..
I have to agree with WLD on this one.
Everyone who performs is entitled to do so as they wish.
Jim is a fine musician, and singer..
What he chooses to perform in public, is up to him.
Mr Buchan.
I happen to like the way Jim plays.
You don't.
no problem.
Deal with it.
Ralph