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BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty
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Subject: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Dec 07 - 04:37 PM According to the BBC TV news today, the RSPCA administered veterinary euthanasia to a cow at the Hare Krishna temple near Aldenham, Herts, England. The religious inmates were at a religious service at the time and so unable to stop the euthanasia. The Cow, aged 7, had been unable to stand for a year, and was receiving no effective treatment (apart from religious observance) from the religious inmates. It had pressure sores and was in pain. The RSPCA adminstered euthanasia to end its suffering. The religious inmates are up in arms and demanding that Parliament legislates to prevent the RSPCA from doing anything similar again, on the ground that the cow was sacred and only their god should be allowed to end its life. They protest at the sacrilege. Organised religions can be sickening at times. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Stilly River Sage Date: 13 Dec 07 - 04:39 PM This is small stuff compared to what christianity can get up to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Richard Bridge Date: 13 Dec 07 - 04:51 PM Make good your accusation that Christianity is cruel to animals. And suggest any way in which your observation, if true, detracts from my point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Wesley S Date: 13 Dec 07 - 05:07 PM Thank goodness - I thought we were going to have a shortage of anti-religion threads for a moment. Now I can worry about something else. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Geordie-Peorgie Date: 13 Dec 07 - 08:16 PM Are they planning a BBQ now? Sorry! Just askin' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Sorcha Date: 13 Dec 07 - 08:42 PM Well, Richard...if you follow that humans are animals (which they are because they are not mineral or plant) then YES....Christianity has been a tad bit cruel to human animals. Crusades, witch hunts, The Inquisition.....more.....all forms of 'human sacrifice'. Get your rewards in Heaven, folks. Don't look much to Judaism either...they did live animal sacrifices, and Abraham was ready to sacrifice his own son, Issac to his god. He also cast out his other son by Hagar (thus supposedly giving rise to the Arabs) Jews...get your rewards after the Messiah comes. Don't know if Islam actually ever sacrifced animals, but they sure do encourage 'self sacrifce' as in Assasins, suicide killers, Jihad, etc. Get your rewards in Heaven, folks. Kali, the Hindu god, demands human sacrifice so the Thugees oblige Her by garrotting people. Get your rewards in the Next Life, folks. Not too sure about Shinto, Zoroastroism, and Tao but I'm pretty sure that Bhuddism has never done any blood sacrifices at all. Shinto worships dead ancestors, and Bhudda just sits there looking solemn and benign. It's all about Rewards and Punishments. Get em where you can. I abhor orgnized religion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Rapparee Date: 13 Dec 07 - 09:20 PM Even Pastfarianism, Sorch? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Dec 07 - 12:14 AM Some religious people are cruel, and they use their religion as an excuse for their cruelty - even when cruelty may be the antithesis of what they profess to believe. Some non-religious people are cruel, too. What's their excuse? Some non-religious people are bigoted, too. What's their excuse? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Sorcha Date: 14 Dec 07 - 12:48 AM Well, maybe not Pastafarians, Rap... Joe, the others don't have an excuse or at least they don't blame it on God, but IMO, 'religion' and 'God' are piss poor excuses. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Dec 07 - 01:43 AM Agreed, Sorcha - religion and God are horrible excuses for cruelty. I think it's a terrible, perverse sacrilege to use God as a justification for doing evil. My point is that some people are just cruel, and it doesn't really matter whether they use religion as an excuse for it or not. It's not fair to judge the members of any group by the behavior of an aberrant minority. It's unfair to make broad generalizations, but I'm going to make one anyhow - I've found that most people are good, whether they're religious or not. Some people are bad or at least do bad things - but don't judge everybody on the behavior of those few. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 14 Dec 07 - 01:43 AM "... are piss poor excuses." But damn good to fall back on when you run out of other ideas... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Bryn Pugh Date: 14 Dec 07 - 11:28 AM I am no veggie, so my comments here concern the 'human animal' I am a Pagan, so perhaps 'organised' is the wrong adjective to apply to my Faith. That said, I once heard a friend who is in christian holy orders (takes all sorts, don't it) say : 'Anyone who kills in the name of his god commits the most appalling blasphemy'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Bee Date: 14 Dec 07 - 02:06 PM The problem with the Hare Krishna example, Joe, is that it doesn't matter how gentle they are if they are ignorant about how (or refuse) to care for an animal in their possession. The OP says 'a Hare Krishna temple', which implies a group of some size. Surely one of these people would recognise the poor cow was in pain and suffering, and that 'praying' about it was unlikely to be an effective treatment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Richard Bridge Date: 14 Dec 07 - 03:14 PM Daily Mail |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Richard Bridge Date: 14 Dec 07 - 03:17 PM This is Hertfordshire |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Sorcha Date: 14 Dec 07 - 04:12 PM I have a question....in my part of the world, Hare Krishna's are neither Bhuddist nor Hindu. And, Bhuddism isn't Hindu either. (Of course, it IS the Daily Mail....--headline says Bhuddist, text says Hindu) In the US it was (still is??? don't know) a royal Pain in the A__ cult during the late 60's. I don't see the words Hare Krishna anywhere in the article. If I remember correctly it was a type of take off on Bhuddism, but more of a cult and con game. Sucked in needy teens, mostly. Can someone clarify please? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Becca72 Date: 14 Dec 07 - 06:28 PM Sorcha, I tried Harekrishna.com but couldn't find anything really helpful or specific...but Wiki says it's a subset of Hindu. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: GUEST,Ian cookieless Date: 14 Dec 07 - 06:34 PM Sorcha, in any part of the world, Hare Krishna (properly the International Society for Krishna Consciousness) is a sect of Hinduism. Hinduism gave rise to Buddhism (correct spelling), to the extent that the Buddha is regarded as one of the Hindu pantheon by Hindus, though of course Buddhists do not regard the Buddha as a god, but as an enlightened man. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Dec 07 - 06:51 PM I know there are drawbacks to it, but oftentimes Wikipedia is a good resource. Since contributions from all sides are welcomed, it often arrives at a pretty good approximation of the truth. From the Wikipedia article, I get the impression that there are adherants who are Hare Krishna because that is who they are, and other adherants that belong more as a fad (albeit a dying fad). The fact that one Hare Krishna congregation chose cruel treatment of a cow is still not sufficient reason for condemnation of the entire sect. Lots of groups - even atheists - have mindless, hard-line fundamentalists. Prejudice, is prejudice, is prejudice - and much of this thread reeks of it, even though it may be clothed in anecdotal evidence and modern, polite political correctness. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 14 Dec 07 - 07:21 PM I have come late to this thread. Joe Offer, you have stated it so precisely and correctly that the only thing left for me to say is 'ditto'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Alice Date: 14 Dec 07 - 09:24 PM The Darker Side of ISKON (Hare Krishna) You have to peel back the public image of ANY group or religion and look deeper into their actions to be fully informed about them. See the above link. "Betrayal of the Spirit, discusses international drug smuggling, arms caches, airport fundraising, child abuse, and assassinations within the mysterious group, as well as the dynamics that forced most of the group's original members to leave." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: GUEST,Sense Date: 15 Dec 07 - 09:22 AM Allowing an animal to get to that state is a crime, look up sections four and 9 of the Animal Welfare Act 2006, or its precursor, section 1 of the Protection of Animals Act 1911. There are many animal owners and farmers who have been prosecuted for such offences in the past. Members of any religious group should not have immunity from a country's law as this discriminates against those who are not part of that group. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Bee Date: 15 Dec 07 - 10:33 AM Joe, I don't see so much 'reeking' prejudice as I see people expressing distaste that people allow such things in the name of religion, and then cry 'it's my faith!' when it is pointed out that they are doing wrong to others or to some poor animal. You are usually very fair in your assessments of things people say or do. It should be possible to point out bad behaviour exacerbated by a religious conviction without having people cry prejudice. If these particular Hare Krishnas were ordinary farmers, they would be prosecuted for animal cruelty or at least neglect, and that would be the end of it. Instead, they use the privileged position we allow religions to try to make it appear they are victims, and not the poor cow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Joe Offer Date: 15 Dec 07 - 03:56 PM
"I abhor orgnized religion." Is what I saw above, Bee. Abhorrence of specific misdeeds is wise and necessary. Condemnation of entire groups for the misdeeds of a few (and with no attempt to gain insight into the real essence of the group), is what I call prejudice. Certainly, there is great harm done in the name of organized religion - but great harm is also done by condemning the many for the misdeeds of the few. That sort of generalization allows us to objectify and label the members of various groups and and helps us rationalize and justify our hatred of them. "Yep, them Hare Krishees are mean to animals - let's throw all them bastards in jail." Or maybe to a concentration camp. Or, how about a gas chamber? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Bee Date: 15 Dec 07 - 05:01 PM Joe, that was one or two posts out of many, and yes, they were prejudiced. Most of us did not say that. Quote: ""Yep, them Hare Krishees are mean to animals - let's throw all them bastards in jail." Or maybe to a concentration camp. Or, how about a gas chamber? " - Joe Or how about having whatever organizational element there is to the Hare Krishnas make sure their followers understand how to properly care for their animals, sacred or not? And asking why they have not already done so, considering the sacred nature of the creature? I see, as a problem, that followers of religions far too often are prejudiced in favour of members of their own faith, so that when they commit misdeeds, it is covered up or made little of, or even justified. Bad priests get transferred to unsuspecting communities, bad Baptists get forgiven and their past evils buried, until they do it again, bad Muslims (who kill their daughters over a headscarf, for example) are said to be not mainstream - but no one speaks out and says "These members of our faith did wrong, and did it while practicing or in the name of our religion, and we abhor this, and will not protect them from the law by crying 'religion'". The Canadian forensic scientist responsible for many false convictions did bad work for twenty years - his superior says "But he was such a good Christian, I never suspected" - nor did he bother to investigate. I can understand that it is painful for those with faith to hear ill spoken of people of faith, seemingly because of their faith. I would just like to see the religious people for once, instead of reacting immediately with a defense of religion, admit a particular group has done wrong and their fellows have condoned it by their silence and by their protection. You say: "Abhorrence of specific misdeeds is wise and necessary. Condemnation of entire groups for the misdeeds of a few (and with no attempt to gain insight into the real essence of the group), is what I call prejudice. Certainly, there is great harm done in the name of organized religion - but great harm is also done by condemning the many for the misdeeds of the few. " - Joe I say: It is necessery for the group whose members have committed misdeeds to help us gain insight into why it might have happened and how they intend to mitigate the wrongdoing and prevent it in future. In all sincerity, I am not unduly prejudiced against any religion (barring the Divine Light Mission), but I get very weary of hearing excuses made for crimes and misdemeanours, just because the perpetrators claim a religion. I don't mean to offend or hurt you, Joe - as far as I know, Quakers (which I think you are) have managed to avoid a lot of the pitfalls of organised religion. Others of faith should study this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: goatfell Date: 16 Dec 07 - 06:31 AM so the cow MOOOVED on to greener pastures (groan) I hope they brought their rolls and onions with them and had great feed, yum. I mean that's what you call fresh food. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: GUEST Date: 16 Dec 07 - 09:12 AM There are quite a few retards on this page. First of all in this instance the cow had bed sores. that is all. and yet it was still sneekily murdered! They distracted the farmers while they done it. that is what is wrong. Regardless, some peoples ignorance is quite shocking, people talking about cruelty to animals, what nonesense. The hare krishna temple looks after the cows, in a cow protection scheme to make sure they are well looked after and die naturally. Naturally due to the lowly intelligence of most of the people posting, i wouldn't expect them to research that. Its funny that people talk about animal cruelty, and yet eat their cheeseburgers, sausages or other forms of meat everyday ignorance in the fact of the suffering the animal they are eating would have endured!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Stringsinger Date: 16 Dec 07 - 06:09 PM And yet those who see themselves as Christians, Jews, Muslims etc. still eat meat and beef from the killing floors of slaughter houses. They have never seen pork manufacturers abuse pigs (Smithfield comes to mind) or the cruelty to chickens in that processing plant. This isn't euthanasia, folks. This is sanctioned cruelty. Frank Hamilton |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Dec 07 - 01:32 AM Hi, Bee - I'm Roman Catholic and spent 8 years in a Catholic seminary, but I'm very comfortable in Unitarian, Quaker, Jewish, Religious Science, and a number of other denominations. Your statement having whatever organizational element there is to the Hare Krishnas make sure their followers understand how to properly care for their animals, sacred or not? shows a misunderstanding of the dynamics of most religious groups. People on the outside seem to think religion is some sort of mind-control scheme, but that doesn't work in most religious groups in the so-called "free world," where religious affiliation is completely voluntary. Individuals in even the most rigid religious groups has a great deal of autonomy. The groups exist to serve their members, not the other way around. Although it may seem otherwise from the outside, doctrine (religious teaching) flows from the shared beliefs of the members of a denomination - ordinarily, it is not imposed upon them by some higher authority. Bee, you bring us the sexual abuses committed by a few Catholic priests and covered up or ignored by a few Catholic bishops. [It isn't well-known that the Catholic bishops of the U.S. spent tens of millions to construct and operate treatment centers that they believed would cure abusive priests]. You speak as though Catholics as a whole should be contrite about these misdeeds - and you seem to forget that the victims were Catholic children of Catholic parents and that the vast majority of Catholics are outraged by these abuses. They have no reason to be contrite - they were the victims. Every group has a small number of miscreants, and those miscreants are certainly a thorn in their side - but most often, the victims of the miscreants, are members of the groups themselves. Muslims who kill their daughters over a headscarf are a very small minority - and their victims are almost always Muslims. You may not hear about it in English-speaking newspapers, but be assured that there is plenty of outrage within Islam about such conduct. Since I was trained for the Catholic priesthood, I have very high expectations of those who are serving as priests -but I also have an understanding of the burdens they bear. Many priests have felt my wrath when they have done something wrong or unfair - and most of them have respected me for it. Now, I'm not going running to the newspaper to report every misdeed or conflict, but I certainly don't allow problems to be covered up or left unnoticed. And I'm not the only one in my parish who refuses to put up with crap from anybody in ministry. I've belonged to, worked with, or been employed by a number of Catholic institutions in my day, and not one of them has put up for very long with any sort of misconduct or abuse by any priest, nun, employee, or volunteer. But no, they don't publish that stuff in the newspaper, and they go to the police only when there is criminal misconduct. And the really serious stuff just doesn't happen all that often. Frank has a point about slaughterhouses. I guess nobody would have complained a bit if those Hare Krishna had sent the old cow off to the slaughterhouse. But I caution Frank to recall that it's not only Christians and Jews and Muslims who eat slaughtered meat - it's also worthy noting that observant Jews and Muslims don't eat pork, and require that other animals be slaughtered in ways that are often more humane than the practices of Swift & Co. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 17 Dec 07 - 05:40 AM Thieves steal holy leg A touching tale of true faith from Andhra Pradesh.... The cow got off lightly! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: GUEST,sparticus Date: 17 Dec 07 - 09:25 AM I wish you a merry Krishna and a Hare New Year! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: The PA Date: 18 Dec 07 - 08:14 AM I don't know much about the religious side of this discussion, but what I would like to know is, is the RSPCA going to prosecute the owners of this animal for allowing its unnecessary suffering? If not then why not. They should be taken to court and at least fined, along with any other person who subjects an animal to deliberate neglect, which this is. But having dealt with the RSPCA in the past the answer will be no. There has never been, in my opinion, such a completely useless animal charity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Grab Date: 18 Dec 07 - 09:34 AM Joe, I'm not sure what good point the guest made. The purpose of animal welfare laws is so that whilst the animals do indeed die for us to eat them, they live and die with the minimum of suffering. "Bed sores" are not a minor problem, even for humans. Pressure sores are essentially your flesh rotting while you're still alive (technical term is "necrosis") - good nursing is very hot on stopping this happening, because it's very difficult to heal the results and people die from the resulting infections. And that happens to people, who are fairly light. When you're dealing with a half-ton cow, it's pretty easy to imagine how much more severe pressure sores can be. The point is that in this case, these people were good Hare Krishnas but lousy vets. The "cow protection scheme" indeed steps in then, in the form of the RSPCA, to independently check the quality of care at farms - and to remove animals which are not being cared for correctly, or euthanise those which vets can't help. Graham. PS. Joe, I call Godwin on that earlier post of yours! :-/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: GUEST,John Major(GUEST) Date: 18 Dec 07 - 10:41 AM Bull shit about minimum of suffering!! Anyway the cow was making a steady recovery, she had an "mating" accident, where a bull basically tried to rape her and her hip was damaged! The vets that came in then, said the cow would pass away in 2 weeks and yet 1 year on she is stil alive and was steadily improving. They have already broken a few rules as to how the proceeded on this case. Deception was used, and because of this legal action may be taken against them. After researching the RSPCA myself, just on the internet, there are vast amounts of complaints and a history of abuse by the rspca. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Dec 07 - 12:43 AM I had to look up "I call Godwin," which means that the first person who draws an analogy with Nazi Germany, loses - this being, of course, due the fact that since all other nations are more humane and civilized than Germany, no other nation could ever use its prejudice to rationalize genocide. WRONG! As I said above - prejudice, is prejudice, is prejudice. Prejudice helps us justify our own cruelty to the objects of our prejudice, since they are corrupt, lesser beings who deserve whatever we can dish out to them. It allows us to punish all members of a group for the misdeeds of a few. Some people mistreat cows by not killing them when they have bedsores. As our anonymous Guest pointed out, some people mistreat cows by killing them and eating them. I dunno. As far as I can see the case against the Hare Krishna is as yet unproved. And after them, we should put Swift & Co. on trial. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Grab Date: 19 Dec 07 - 06:17 AM Joe, the point of Godwin's Law is not to excuse prejudice. It's expressing the fact that when you start comparing the other persons actions to the actions of Nazi Europe, you are no longer making a rational argument. The comparison is unjustified (unless there truly is a valid comparison, such as Saddam Hussein's Iraq or Pol Pot's Cambodia), and it reduces your argument to simply throwing insults at the other person. "Yep, them Hare Krishees are mean to animals - let's throw all them bastards in jail." Or maybe to a concentration camp. Or, how about a gas chamber? Specifically, you're seriously misrepresenting what Sorcha said. She dislikes *all* organised religions, regardless of origin. She hasn't said she wants to throw any of them in jail, nor Hare Krishnas specifically. Even if she had, the gulf between dislike of a religion and wanting to throw them in a concentration camp or gas chamber is where Godwin's Law kicks in. Guest John Major claims that the RSPCA euthanised the animal unnecessarily. No evidence either way - it's possible, but then you have to ask why the RSPCA folks did it, and "because they all hate Hare Krishnas" is equally unfounded, considering that three separate vets agreed on this. But I can't say it better than Bee did above: "It should be possible to point out bad behaviour exacerbated by a religious conviction without having people cry prejudice." Even then, "bad behaviour" is a stretch. The Hare Krishnas believed that the cow should be kept alive as long as possible, despite being in considerable pain, and should only die of natural causes. The British government, when it put rules in place to prevent animal cruelty, believed that animals should be euthanised when they are suffering and cannot be helped or cured. The Hare Krishnas weren't behaving badly, just working to different beliefs from the rest of the country. Trouble is that religion doesn't get a free pass out of laws. Nor should it. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: GUEST,PMB Date: 19 Dec 07 - 06:29 AM I know dozens of people who have kept pets when they are blind, lame, incontinent, covered in sores and tumours, or obviously in pain. They can't think of having them "put down". They see their actions as a loyal refusal to betray an old friend. I can't see that the Hare Krishnas in this case are any worse, or any better, than this. The fact that their beliefs are as whappy as any other religion's is irrelevant. They are in solid fact far less inhuman than those who would deny euthanasia to a terminally ill person, or abortion to a raped woman. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Richard Bridge Date: 19 Dec 07 - 03:32 PM Those who keep pets alive in those states can be and sometimes are (rightly) prosecuted for animal cruelty. My main objection to the Hare Krishna stance in this matter is the apparent belief that a religious "reason" for an unlawful act either excuses the act or means that the law should be changed. My other objection is that I hate cruelty to animals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Dec 07 - 07:21 PM Well, perhaps I get overly sensitive. It seems to happen too often here that all religious groups are considered together, that all are painted as fundamentalist kooks and that religion is described as some sort of authoritarian mind control. Many of us religious people vote Democratic/Labour, despise the war in Iraq, believe in the equality of the races and the sexes and the sexual orientations, and support the humane treatment of children and animals. Heck, we might even drink a beer or sing a folk song every once in a while. And I despise fundamentalists of every ilk, and I'm insulted when I'm grouped with them. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: GUEST,PMB Date: 20 Dec 07 - 03:35 AM I wasn't talking about your social beliefs, Joe. They're fine, certainly in your case. Just the magic* is whappy. Fortunately, the social beliefs don't follow from these. For every liberal Catholic there's an Opus Dei klanner, for every Mother theresa a Torquemada, for every Pastor Niemoller an Ian Paisley, and of course for every Berthold Brecht a Joe Stalin. * "The Transcendent" is what they've taken to calling magic these days. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Dec 07 - 03:49 AM I thought critics were diggin up nasty things about Mother Theresa too. Certainly everyone I know who went to a school run by nuns paints them as torturing despots. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Dec 07 - 05:08 AM I dunno. I went to three schools run by nuns and was employed at another, and my experiences were good in all but the first semester of first grade. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Greg F. Date: 20 Dec 07 - 09:50 AM ...the cow was sacred and only their god should be allowed to end its life. Well, this argument was used by the "Christian"[sic] folks trying to keep Terri Schiavo "alive". So, why ain't it applicable to animals? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Wesley S Date: 20 Dec 07 - 10:01 AM I was also taught by nuns - from third to seventh grade. I was never struck, hit or abused by a nun. And I've never found any other student that has had a personal experience of that sort. I'm sure it's happened at some time or other - but don't believe every rumor you hear. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: GUEST,ExCatholic Date: 20 Dec 07 - 10:19 AM I was beaten by De La Salle Brothers on a regular basis from the age of 7 to 16. I can't prove it, but I think other boys had it worse. There was a secret society in the school run by one of the Brothers, the members were sworn to secrecy about what went on. And the de La Salles were only Christian Brothers Lite. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Wesley S Date: 20 Dec 07 - 10:24 AM Yeah - sure you were..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: GUEST Date: 20 Dec 07 - 11:19 AM I went to a convent and my brother the boys equivalent. We were never abused maybe we were lucky, I honestly dont know. I agree with Richard its the animal suffering that I take issue with. Our yard had a visit from the RSPCA once because of a grudge call from a rival competitor. We had to bring all the horses in, take off their rugs and have them checked out by an inspector I might add who admitted they knew very little about horses. We got the all clear naturally. I know lots of people who have called the RSPCA regarding issues of neglect and crualty and they've dont absolutely nothing about it. There was a field of some 20 horses last winter, just outside our village, literally starving before our very eyes. We took hay every day and buckets of water. After 15 calls and complaints The RSPCA still did nothing because they could not find who owned the field. They said the horses were OK, but that was only because we were feeding them. They knew all this and turned a blind eye. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Dec 07 - 02:34 PM It's mostly the broad generalizations posted above that I disagree with, but I'd take issue with animal suffering, too. Still, I wonder if euthanasia was the only way to relieve the suffering of the cow in question and I do wonder if the cow was actually suffering, or if we're hearing the story from someone who thinks euthanasia is the only thing to do for blind cows. I have no doubt that abuse happens in both public and private schools with deplorable frequency. I suppose it takes place especially in residential schools and is perhaps committed more often by celibate persons who have no family life. Still, it's my perception that most people who went to Catholic school had a good experience. PMB describes religious belief as "magic," euphemized by some as "The Transcendant." While I've seen that side of religious belief more often than I'd like to, that sort of thing tends to drive me crazy. There are many of us believers who DO see a spiritual side to existence, but we've never seen anything magic happen and don't expect to. I think we're probably a lot more rational than PMB could imagine. We also generally recognize that there re people who don't see a spiritual side to things, and that's just fine with us as long as we're not condemned for our own perspective. As for the RSPCA, I plead ignorance - but I would imagine that some RSPCA representatives are very knowledgeable and compassionate and competent, and that some are not. Same goes for Hare Krishna, Christians, Moslems, Jews, nuns, postal employees, physicians, and even musicians. Some are horribly bad, and something must be done to stop the damage they do. Some are extraordinarily good, and they shouldn't be lumped with the bad guys or forced to apologize for the failings of their peers. And most are in the middle. But as for rash generalizations - They Drive Me Bonkers!!! (and there are many such generalizations in this thread) I think Mudcat needs a new slogan:
'nuff said. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Religion: Hare Krishna Animal Cruelty From: The Sandman Date: 20 Dec 07 - 03:54 PM I never believe anything the Daily Mail prints. This is the newspaper tht supported British Fascists during the 1930s. yes cruelty to animals is wrong , but do any of us know what was really happening here.,how many of you have been to the Hare Krishna place, it is a mistake to believe everthing the press prints ,partucuarly the tabloids that rely on sensationilism to boost their circulation figures. Meanwhile Humans are being tortured in Zimbabwe..Oh yes and dying of starvation too |
