How to kill the record industry...

Subject: How to kill the record industry...
From: SouthernCelt
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 12:30 PM

This isn't really "new" news but it looks to me like the big-time recorded music bosses are cutting off their noses to spite their faces with the attitude they're taking on interpretation of what constitutes illegal copying of recorded music media.

You can read about it here: Download Uproar: Record Industry

When all is said and done, the lawyers are the only ones that'll come out ahead and happy with this.

SC

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Big Mick
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 12:41 PM

I believe the industry is wrong on this new twist. What one does for ones personal use should be construed as fair use. But the hitch comes when one hooks up to a file sharing server. That, in my mind, is where the intent to defraud the artist, and label, occurs.

One thing I have learned in organizing unions and bargaining contracts, is that it is a mistake to try and stop technology. One must simply control how it is used. Theft is theft. If you are using technology to take my propertywithout my specific permission (intellectual, financial, personal data, or physical), then you are stealing and should be held accountable. The mistake was made early on when the industry should have went after folks before we had a whole generation that feels there is nothing wrong with what they are doing.

No mitigation of guilt can be allowed. If you are using the computer to get something for nothing that you normally have to pay for, that is wrong.

Mick

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Big Mick
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 12:48 PM

One more thing. It is easy to throw around terms like "big-time recorded music bosses", but that is known as shifting the premise. This isn't a fight to protect the right of the masses to rip off the big boys. Stealing is stealing whether it is from Warner Bros. or Folk Legacy or Camsco. To allow your logic to stand would be to say that it is OK to steal from Target as long as you don't steal from the Mom and Pop store down the street.

I understand your need to demonize the industry, but to do so gets one arguing on whether they have right to charge what they do, instead of on whether it is OK to steal the intellectual property of others.

Mick

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: fumblefingers
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:01 PM

Read the article before getting on your high horse. The record companies are now saying it is illegal to copy your CD, that you bought, to your computer for any purpose. This is and has always been considered 'fair use',not stealing.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:02 PM

I think the article is very misleading and draws upon sensationalism.

The articles gives the impression that the RIAA is going after everyone who makes an MP3 of a CD that they own. IF that was the case, Microsoft and Apple would be the first companies sued due to the fact that they provide softward that enables and in fact encourages the "ripping" of music from a CD.

As Mick pointed out, they are really going after the people who are sharing those file with others. The case in question was the result of one lawyer looking for a loophole. The RIAA does say that making copies even for personal use might be "questionable" under the letter of the law, but it is not something they are going to persue as a practice.

Anyone who has spent time here on Mudcat will surely remember instances where people have offered to record CD's for others or make MP3 files available.   I'm also approached with private messages asking for copies of songs.   Just because something is out of print does not give everyone the legal right to "share" that property - it is not your call.

Of course, there is an arguement that can be made that such copying can actually help. I'm sure most of us have either purchase, borrowed, or at least listened to the Harry Smith Anthology of Folk Music that was issued by Folkways in the early 1950's. An amazing collection that inspired many people to fall in love with this type of music.   That entire collection was a bootleg. The songs chosen were all commercially released 78's - some less than 20 years old when they appeared on the collection. Since this was the 1950's and litigation was not yet a national pastime, no one sued Moses Asch or Harry Smith.   Imagine what would happen today.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:04 PM

Fumblefingers, I would also suggest that you read the article again.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:07 PM

The demonisation of the record companies doesn't spring from any internal neurosis - but rather the way that industry has conducted itself over many years. I doubt if there is one musician, and certainly there are no professional musicians who don't have stories to tell of being stolen from, exploited, cheated and worse.

You see these people coming and you have to just grit your teeth and say, well if I want to make records - this is how it is.

The internet has meant liberation from these idiots who have presided over their own decline. their real problem is that they've all got the X factor. A bit like the plague when they chalked it on peoples' doors. Not long now and they'll be carting them away on a barrow.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:08 PM

The law here in the UK is that it is already technically illegal to make personal copies of a legally purchased CD. Of course, you ought to be able to make copies for personal use if everyone was honest and fair-minded where an artist's livelihood is concerned. Unfortunately they are not.

Mick and I do not always agree in certain other areas but I'm with him 100% on this. The industry ought to have acted much earlier to guarantee the rights of artists. Royalties are an important part of earnings and can mean the difference between meeting or missing a mortgage payment. An artist cannot receive anything from a piratd recording. Remember that.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:15 PM

I wonder

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:25 PM

Well, that sure didn't work. I start over.

I wonder if Guido was sued for making those little marks to attempt to record MUSIC???? Next came bars and staffs and, well, you know, the cat was out of the bag then! Music has gone from the ephemeral and unique to the infinitely reproducible and generic. The Brave New Digital World is still a wild frontier. Law and order will come but we don't really know in what form that may be. Right now, everybody and everything is at risk. As a child of the West and kind of a cowboy at heart, I like it, but it ain't a gonna last.

Some bright minds, some of you maybe, will hit upon a way to protect our property and identities and things will settle down. I hear it coming like a song on the wind. Someone catch it. Record it. Save it for all of us. We need it.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:34 PM

Here is a link to the filing in this case - pdf file .

I am not a lawyer, but after wading through the papers, I do not see where the RIAA is suing simply for making a personal MP3 copy.

I could be wrong, but in my opinion it seems like the defendent's lawyer found a sympathetic reporter and twisted the case in his favor. I do not see this lawyer discussing the evidence of file sharing on Kazaa, which seems to be at the heart of the RIAA's case.

We can get as poetic and uptight as we want - it might do some oldtimers some good to rage against "the system" again, but property is property. While Madonna might not be able to afford another fancy mansion because of piracy, it is also effecting the people in our community who create songs and perform as a way to feed a family.

I think I smell something coming in that wind, and it ain't pretty.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Big Mick
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:44 PM

fuck off, fumblefingers. Before you tell me to read the article before getting on my high horse, perhaps you should read my post before spouting your ignorant horseshit. I started off by saying the industry was wrong on this latest twist. I read the article before posting. You should try that, but try reading for comprehension.

Stealing is stealing. All the other arguments made are simply attempts to get us to focus on something other than you want something you should have to pay for, for nothing. I completely agree that the world has changed, and how we market must also change. But don't try to legitimize getting something you would otherwise have to pay for free.

Mick

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 02:41 PM

The point is that its only the Madonna characters who ever were protected. And even then its only because they earn such a lot that they don't miss what doesn't get collected.

That story about how Allen Klein got started by going up to recording artists and saying, d'you want a hundred thousand dollars - knowing he could make record companies pay that much because they daren't submit to an audit.

It only works for VERY successful artists. Lots of time, I've spent years doing doing shit jobs and shit gigs, because I didn't have the kind of muscle to extract money from people who simply knew they could get away with it - small amounts - but they would have paid the mortgage and put food on the table.

That other legend about the record company making Robert Johnson use the goods entrance to their building. Bottom line - they're attitude to artists hasn't changed. If they go down, good shuts!

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Greg B
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 02:58 PM

Hopefully, that if the court rules against the defendant
on the issue of ripping his licensed material to MPS3
on his computer it will place the nuance of intent of
use on the ruling so that the RIAA can't move against
everyone who puts CD tracks on their ipod or on MP3
CDs for use in their car.

In other words, what might make the ripping process illegal
was his doing so with intent to violate copyright by sharing
said copies.

That said, the record industry as we have known it is dead.
It'll go on for a few years, like an auto company that has so
much capital that it can flounder along for a decade or two before
it figures out that the world has passed it by.

Even DRM (Digital Rights Management) has seen its day---
major records company are starting to drop copy protection and
sell tracks which are unlocked; the consumer demands it--- he
wants to pay a dollar a song, and be able to play it back on
his IPod, his car, his computer at work and his Media Center
PC. At that rate, he's really not that motivated to engage in
piracy.

Oh, there will always be some, usually among people with more
time than money. But a lot of those are young people, who,
when they do have earning power, will become the music industry's
best customers.

In the Dec 2007 edition of Wired magazine, there's an interesting
article about Universal Media's CEO Doug Morris, and how he's coping
(or not) with the changes. Even he seems to realize that the
industry is going to change from providing a physical product (i.e.
vinyl and now CDs) to providing a service (i.e., download of
digital materials).

But while everyone, from the RIAA to our own Big Mick jump up and
down and try and define 'stealing,' the world moves forward. Even
the record companies.

The real question is whether anybody will need them any more.

In return for providing musicians what they couldn't provide
for themselves--- a way to produce and distribute materials,
record companies took ownership of the whole process from inception
the production and marketing. They made their money on the product.
And they could do so because they could control the distribution
channel. They really had control of the musicans' "air supply."

Now that they no longer control the distribution channel, and
control of the distribution channel is what all this legal posturing
is really all about, they no longer control the music.

Do the artists still need what the record companies offered? Sure.
They need to be promoted, they need a way to distribute product and
receive revenue. They need someone to invest a million dollars in a
tour when they don't themselves have a few hundred for next month's
rent. They need the networking that puts song-writers together with
song-singers. Absent the record companies, it isn't clear how all
that is going to happen.

To bring it back to the folk music world, what really gets me is
that so many folk musicians continue to try to deal with their
recorded music in a miniaturized model of the big record labels.
Only they've lacked---miserably ---the wide production and
distribution facilities that the big labels used to make their
money. Their studio production costs are a massive percentage
of the money they'll ever make on a recording; unlike the big
labels, where even the big studio and mastering costs are still
just a drop in the bucket of a multi-platinum revenue. Their
distribution process usually consists of some mail-order, boxes
of CDs they lug from gig to gig, and festival sale-tables which
rip off either the artists or buyers or both with insane markups,
then pay slowly or not at all.

There are some bright spots, such as CDBaby, which provides both
digital and physical distribution at very fair terms to artists
and which also allows (somewhat less lucrative but still effective)
access to artists' music via iTunes and the whole gamut of digital
media outlets.

I actually see future 'pop' acts coming up through channels
such as CDBaby and maybe just staying there. They'll find the
promotion and backing they need through a new breed of non-affiliated
promoters and through a new type of entertainment 'venture
capitalist.'

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 03:11 PM

Yes, stealing is stealing! However the big recording companies have stolen more from artists than anyone else so it makes empathy at times hard to come by. If the public steal from the recording industry what they have already stolen, it may still be stealing but who is it that has been stolen from?????
Stealing may be a crime but at times it may still be legal. I love to quote Woody. "some will rob you with a six gun; some with a fountain pen."
       Happy New Year To All!!!!
                  Sandy

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 03:22 PM

Copyright law is convoluted and obscure and arcane and unintelligible to people like us and even lawyers who don't specialize in it.

I have always assumed that is intentional.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Big Mick
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 03:24 PM

All those platitudes aside, (shall we start the Lomax argument again as long as we are all getting going????) the issue of protection of one's intellectual property must be dealt with. Despite GregB's sideways slap, he actually has a pretty good handle on it. I don't have a lick of a problem with selling my cuts one at a time. I love the concept of CDBaby, and have watched my good buddy Jed Marum use it, and others, quite effectively. As I continue to march down the path towards my new CD, and my band's new CD, I fully intend to use these outlets. I don't have a problem with free downloads, as long as I authorize them.

Where my problem lies is with those that seek to use all these tired old arguments (like Sandy Mc Lean for whom I otherwise have great respect)to justify stealing. When you let folks act like it is OK, or even justifiable, to steal from them, then what are we to do when they steal from us? Or the Patons over at Folk Legacy? My point is that we must be in control of our product, and our intellectual property, or ultimately we lose the ability to make it.

I love the new era of artists being in control of their destiny. But there is a very real danger in this notion that one is entitled to rip off my product without so much as a tip of the hat.

Mick

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: GUEST,QuestionMark
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 03:33 PM

It seems the music industry is doing whatever it can, now out of desperation. They've lost control of distribution, artist development, recording studios, packaging...everything except the ability to get megastar acts they are tied to promoting booked into large city auditoriums. Even there, they've lost out on a lot of revenue due to the mysterious ticket broker industry, which somehow has become legitimized (how I'm not sure.)

The problem with all this is that while any musician can not distribute, record, package, freely develop their own music...the fact is its even harder now for a musician to make any kind of money doing so. Probably, even harder than it was than when the music industry business was in control. When everyone in the world has a high quality CD recorded on their home studio, CD's lose the allure of being associated with being a professional recording star. When CD's are routinely sold at every gig by near every musician, they become more a memory of attending a venue than the artist. Getting mass distribution of a recorded track or a CD becomes even harder as an indie has more competition than ever and only word of mouth to rely on basically through the internet. Plus, there's less and less live music venues for indies as riches attract riches...especially and as venues cease to think offering live music means attracting large audiences like a megastar can. Plus, with less music industry artistic development going on, there's also less chance of a musician hitting it big.

There was a time when getting a song played on an independent radio station meant folks would flock to buy their 45. That's gone, too as are independent radio stations to boot.

I hate to say it, but the music industry had a point in all of their concern. The music industry has reverted back to basically 45's via itunes and so much of the individually self produced indie tracks are laying unsold in the bins without anyone even knowing what they are. It makes me think with all of the ability to now get one's own music out to the public without making money...we're a bit back to the regional musician era days of Son House, Robert Johnson, etc. Folks making great music that only a handful know about in their time. Keeping in mind it was the music industry that many years later, when they realized they could make big money, brought widely to others through their promos and deriviative acts.

Just my thoughts on all this on the last day of the year.

QM

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 04:13 PM

Actually, in most recording and music publishing contracts unless a record company has opted for one of the new MU "profit sharing" contracts (mmmmmmm, remember the conspiracy suits against the US film majors about thier defintions of "net profits?) the artist or composer gets remunerated out of retail vinyl and CD sales (and in music publishing contracts, other defined categories of revenue). The Norm is NOT to share internet revenue.

So the only person (mostly) getting hurt when Joe Schmoe makes an "illegal" internet downoad is the man, not the artist.

Let's stuff the industry, and have artists earn their money playing live, and off their own website sales. Maybe we'd get some music instead of some VERY soft porn masquerading as girl groups.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 04:38 PM

And does everyone remember "Payola"? The stench of the Almighty Dollar emanates from every crack and crevice in the industry of sound and always has. As with most arts, the dealers, distributors, the sellers never see or understand art but they do know how to make (and more important, keep) a buck. Just what the commodity is, is not important. Understanding the consumer, manipulating wants and desires is ALL important. It seems as though one either has "art" or "business" but seldom both. That, or a "Nose to the grindstone" mentality. This is who mostly buys the music and other various and sundry dreams. For what it's worth...

Slag

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: oggie
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 04:42 PM

Also bear in mind that this is the same industry that is trying to reduce the percentage paid to artists on the grounds of "new channels of distribution".

I also remember a post on this site where someone was praised for getting a celtic knotwork font without paying for it.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 04:57 PM

Och Mick , the respect is mutual , I assure you! Like you I have spent too many years in the labour movement, to not be suspicious of big industry.
My own wish would be that copyright would have to remain with the songwriter and artist, and not with the publisher or recording company. Only permission to publish or record would be granted, but the originator of the work would always remain in control. I certainly support the rights of the artist, but have a problem with the industry. I'm just a lifelong democratic socialist who keeps pissing into the wind! :-}
                        Slainte,
                               Sandy

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 05:17 PM

copyright would have to remain with the songwriter and artist, and not with the publisher or recording company

Yeah, right.

But what about the artists who signed a contract with a friend (Bill Leader) giving those rights to that recording company owner, only to see that company sold twice over once he went out of business?

These artists now get no royalties nor recognition for their work. Can't be right . . .

Now, back to watching Life Of Brian. Bloody hell, just actually heard that MFAFH snatch on the MFI ad.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 05:25 PM

"But what about the artists who signed a contract with a friend (Bill Leader) giving those rights to that recording company owner, only to see that company sold twice over once he went out of business?"

The lesson is, be careful what you sign. Life sucks.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 06:07 PM

That, Mr Olesko, is the most anti-humanitarian, most cynical and most fucking stupid comment I have ever seen on Mudacat.

Tell that to Lal Waterson, Tony Rose and Peter Bellamy. If you could. They're dead. Or to Nic Jones who is not but who has been unable to continue his career because of disability. Or to all the other artists, living or dead, whose work is buried in a Harrogate vault.

This is the archive, with only a few exceptions, that remains unavailable:

LEA 4001 Jack Elliott Jack Elliott of Birtley [With booklet] [Leader - orange label] (1969)
Little chance; Brokken tanner; (Jews' harp); Unlucky duck; Broom's reel; Rakes of Mallow (mouth organ); Lassie would ye lo'e me?; Silent budgie (story); Golden slippers; Poor black Joe (banjo); Blind fool; Man with no watch (story); Harrin's Head; Rap her to bank; Jowl, jowl and Listen; Farewell to the 'Cotia; Rowan tree (mouth organ); Banks of the Dee; Parable of the lost shekels; Irish washerwoman; Father O'Flynn (mouth organ); Old man; On yon bottle bank; Just before the battle mother; My old man; Stanley Market; Paddy McGinty's goat; Highland whisky; De'il among the tailors (mouth organ); Preacher and the atheist (story); In the bar room (Jew's harp).
LER 3002 Archie Fisher; Barbara Dickson; John MacKinnon Fate o' Charlie [Trailer - white test label] (1969)
Cam ye o'er frae France [AF]; Three healths; Wha wadna fight for Charlie [AF]; White cockade [BD]; My bonny Highland laddie [JM]; Highland widow's lament [BD]; Prestonpans; Battle of Prestonpans [AF]; Killicrankie [AF]; O'er the water to Charlie [BD]; Prince Charlie; Highland Harry [BD]; Fate o' Charlie [JM]; Highlander's lament [AF]; O'er the water; Flowers o' the forest [BD].
LEA 2003 Seamus Ennis Seamus Ennis [Masters of Irish Music Series] [Leader - turquoise label] (1969)
Uuillean pipes: Pinch of snuff; Fairie's hornpipe; Gold ring; Fairy straying; Song: False hearted lover; Whistle: Ditherum doodah; Bird's chorus; Uillean pipes: Lark in the morning; Lark's march.
LEA 2004 Martin Byrnes   Martin Byrnes [Masters of Irish Music series] [Reg Hall (piano)] [Leader - turquoise label] (1969)
Duke of Leinster reel; Duke of Leinster's wife reel; Paddy Fahey's jig; Cliffs of Moher jig; Tarbolton reel; Longford Collector reel; Sailor's bonnet reel; Banty Bay hornpipe; Stack of barley hornpipe; Farewell to Ireland reel; Irish Molly reel; Ashplant reel; Liffey Banks reel; Shaskeen reel; Hitler's downfall jig; Battle of Aughrim polka; Humours of Lissadel reel; Blackbird; Rodney's glory; Collier's reel; Bucks of Oranmore reel.
LEA 2005 Seamus Tansey   Seamus Tansey [Masters of Irish Music series] [Seamus Tansey - flute, tin whistle, tambourine; Eddie Corcoran - tin whistle, tambourine; Reg Hall - piano; Paul Gross - piano (1970)
Reels: Jackie Coleman's No 1 / No 2; The Morning Dew; Boys of Laoise; Miss Monaghan; Colonel Frazer / Miss McLeod's; O'Rourke's / The Wild Irishman; The Bloom of Youth / Lord MacDonald's; The Steam Packet / The Limestone Rock; Pigeon on the Gate / The Reel of Mullinavat. Jigs: Tansey's Favourite / The Bride's Favourite; The Maid of St Kisco / Tom Ward's Downfall; Farewell to Gurteen / Kid on the Mountain; The Cliffs of Moher / Paddy Fahy's; The Battering Ram; Corcoran's Fancy. Hornpipes: Birmingham / Leitrim Fancy.
LEA 4006 Billy Pigg Border Minstrel [grey gatefold with integral 8 page booklet] [Leader - turquoise label] (1971)
High Level hornpipe; Biddleston hornpipe; Carrick hornpipe; I'll get wedded in my auld claes hornpipe; Gentle maiden; Lark in the clear air; Father O'Flynn; Skye crofters; Dr McLeod of Alnwick; Swallow's tail reel; Mallorca H.R.H Duke of Windsor]; Madame Bonaparte; Last of the twins; King of the pipers; Crookit bawbee; Bill Charlton's fancy; Exhibition hornpipe; Billy Pigg's hornpipe; Random jig; Wild hills of Wannies; J R Pigg; Dargai; Happy hours; There's nae guid luck about the house (variations); Holey Happenny.
LER 2007 The High Level Ranters The Lads Of Northumbria [High Level Ranters - Alistair Anderson, Tom Gilfllon, Johnny Handle, Colin Ross] [Trailer - red label / white test label] (1969)
Drops of brandy; Foxhunter's jig; Rocky road to Dublin; Spey in spate; Tusca; College Valley Hunt [Johnny Handle]; Sir John Fenwick's 'The flower among them all'; Baby lie easy [Tom Gilfellon]; Dingle Regatta; Father Kelly's jig; Wedding of Blyth; Andrew Carr; Golden eagle; Sunshine; Johnny Armstrong [Colin Ross]; Derwentwater's farewell [Colin Ross]; Ned of the hill [Colin Ross]; Buy broom besoms [Johnny Handle]; Underhill; Scallowa' lassies; De'il stick the minister; Hares on the mountain [Tom Gilfellon]; Trumpet hornpipe; Cadum Wood.
LER 3008 Bob Davenport Bob Davenport and the Marsden Rattlers [Marsden rattlers - Jim Bainbridge, Susan Bainbridge, Jim Boyles, Jim Irvine, John Lincoln, Tom Montgomery, Derek Proctor, Trevor Sheridan] [Trailer - yellow label] (1971)
Granny's old armchair; Gipsy girl; Early, early in the spring; Old miner; I wish I was single again; Nell; Mucking of Geordie's byre; Cock of the North; Hey! Canny man; I wish they'd do it now; Bonny bunch of roses; Nineteen thirties; Jarrow shipbuilder; Trimdon Grange disaster; Champion he was a dandy; Geordieland 68.
LER 2009 Martyn Wyndham-Read Ned Kelly and that gang [Trailer - white test label] (1970)
Ned Kelly; Ben Hall's gang; Streets of Forbes; Convict maid; Moreton Bay; Wild colonial boy; Jim Jones; Lament for Ben Hall; Cypress brig; Death of Ben Hall; Stringybark Creek; Farewell to Greta; Ned Kelly.
LER 3010 Lea Nicholson Horsemusic [Performers include - Tim Hart, Maddy Prior, Gay Woods, Terry Woods] [Trailer - red label] (1971)
Here we come a-wassailing; Glory of the North; Greenland bound; Lea Rigs; I live not where I love; I'm the urban spaceman; Bach, Johannes Sebastian - Trio sonata for two manuals and pedal: allegro; Along the Rossendale; Coast of Peru; False knight on the road; Kopya; All through the beer.
LER 2011 Robin & Barry Dransfield Rout of the Blues [Trailer - red label] (1970)
Rout of the Blues; Scarborough Fair; St Clemet's jig; Huntsmen's chorus; Nancy; Waters of Tyne; Earl of Totnes; Tapestry; Trees they do grow high; Week before Easter; Fair maid walking all in her garden; Who's the fool now?
LEA 4012 Various artists Blue Ridge Mountain Field Trip - various artists at the Galax Fiddler's Convention [With 8 page booklet] [Leader - Buff label] (1970)
Hubert Caldwell: Ox bow quadrille; Constitution hornpipe; Staten Island hornpipe; Old Virginia waltz. Sue Draheim, Buddy Pendleton, Mac Benford: Peeler Creek waltz. Carl Flemming, Buddy Pendleton: Liberty; Rutland's reel. Gray Craig, Doug Rorrer, Janet Kerr: Soldier's joy. Gray Cragi, North Carolina Ramblers: Richmond. John Hil: Sweet sunny south; Sugar in the gourd. John Hilt, Tex Isley (guitar): Silver threads among the gold; Reidsville blues; Buck; Live and let live; Nobody's business. John Hilt, Roger Sprun, Joan Sprung (guitar): Devil's dream. Gray Craig, Doug Rorrer: Under the double eagle.
LER 2013 Tony Rose Young Hunting [Trailer - red label] (1970)
Robin Hood and the Bishop of Hereford; Bellringing; Young Hunting; Golden Vanitee; Up to the rigs; Three butchers; Royal Oak; Blackwaterside; Parson and the clerk; Tavistock Goosey Fair.
LER 2014 Nic Jones Ballads and songs [Trailer - yellow label] (1970)
Sir Patrick Spens; Butcher and the tailor's wife; Duke of Marlborough; Annan Water; Noble Lord Hawkins; Don't you be foolish pray; Outlandish knight; Reynard the fox; Little Musgrave.
LER 3015 Leon Rosselson Word is hugga mugga chugga lugga humbugga boom chit [with Roy Bailey and Martin Carthy] [Trailer - red label] (1971)
Hugga mugga chugga lugga humbugga boom chit; Garden of stone; Invisible man; Never mind the slugs; Word market; Do you remember?; William; I don't want to die; Remembrance Day
LER 3016 Bob & Carole Pegg He came from the mountains [Trailer - red label] (1971)
Rise up Jock; Scorpion departs but never returns; Lord of the dance; He came from the mountains; Love song number 2; Jimmy's letters; Angeline; Susan's song.
LER 2017 Dave & Toni Arthur Hearken to the witches rune [Trailer - yellow label] (1971)
Alison Gross; Tam Lin; Fairy tale; Fairy child; Broomfield Hill; Standing stones; Cruel mother; Alice Brand.
LER 3018 Rosemary Hardman & Bob Axford Second season came [Trailer - red label] (1971)
Lady for today; Will Taylor; Andrew; For Midge and the rest; Strangely moved; Oto's rag; There had to be some changes made; Mosaic; Lord Huntley; This man; Butterfly; Out on the bridge.
LER 2019 Various artists Folk Trailer - introduced by Jim Lloyd [Trailer - red label] (1970)
Rout of the Blues [R & B Dransfield]; Bellringing [T Rose]; Lazlo Feher [D & T Arthur]; Jack broke the prison door [A Bain, M Whellans]; Donald Blue [A Bain, M Whellans]; Wha'll dance wi' Willie Wattie [A Bain, M Whellans]; Strangely moved [R Hardman, B Axford]; Love song number 2 [B & C Pegg]; Wild colonial boy [M Wyndham-Read]; Bonny at morn [R Fisher, C Ross]; Cam ye o'er frae France [A Fisher]; Reynard the fox [N Jones] Drops of brandy [High Level Ranters]; Foxhunter's jig [High Level Ranters]; Rocky road to Dublin [High Level Ranters]; Bright morning star [Young Tradition].
LER 2020 The High Level Ranters Keep your feet still Geordie hinnie [High Level Ranters Orchestra - Alistair Anderson, Clem Avery, Colin Beal, Foster Charlton, Albert Gelson, Tom Gilfllon, Johnny Handle, Ronald McLean, Colin Ross, Tom Waugh] [Trailer - red label] (1970)
Keep your feet still Geordie hinny; Pawnshop bleezin; Lambton worm; Come Geordie, ha'd the bairn; Geordie Black; Adam Buckham; Cushie Butterfield; Neighbours doon belaa; Nannie's amaizor; Weshin day; Last neet; Blaydon Races.
LER 3021 Roy Bailey Roy Bailey [Trailer - red label] (1971)
Three butchers; Bitter withy; Dust to dust; Thornaby Woods; How should I your true love know?; Fair maid walking; Poverty knock; Clerk Saunders; No sir no; Dalesman's litany; Palaces of gold.
LER 2022 Aly Bain & Mike Whellans Aly Bain - Mike Whellans [Trailer - red label] (1971)
Jack broke the door; Donald Blue; Wha'll dance wi' Wattie; Jimmy Clay; Maple sugar; Whistlin' through the pines; Buckin' mule; Sweet Georgia Brown; Lucky can du link ony; Foostra; Aandown' at the bow; Fiddler's Green; Willie MacIntosh; Cooley's reel; Neil Gow's lament for his second wife; Steppin' out.
LER 2023 Derek & Dorothy Elliott Derek and Dorothy Elliott [Trailer - red label] (1972)
May dew; Jack the sailor; Tally ho the hounds; Wassail song; Bring us a barrel; Adieu to judges and juries; John Barleycorn; Maria Marten; He that will not merry, merry be; Cornstalk; Robber bridegroom; Lady Maisry.
LER 2024 Tony Rose Under the greenwood tree [Trailer - yellow label] (1971)
Jockie to the fair; Bridgewater Fair; Just as the tide was flowing; Lark in the morning; Searching for lambs; Basket of eggs; John Blunt; True lovers; Grad conversation on Napoleon; Sheath and knife; Limbo; Trees they do grow high.
LER 2025 Pisces Pisces [Pisces - Richard Digance; Tim Greenwood; John O'Connor] [Trailer - red label] (1971)
Bright new morning; Ballad of Benjamin Bratt; After the night; Jack O'Legs; If I sing you a song; Midsummer symphony; Sam the one eyed snail; Poker Joe.
LER 2026 Robin & Barry Dransfield Lord of all I behold [Trailer - red label] (1971)
Faithful Johnny; Bold Nelson's favourite; Who liveth so merry; Adam and the beasts; Lord of all I behold; Paddy Ryan's dream; Still he sings; Bold William Taylor; Just as the tide was flowing; Wild rover.
LER 2027 Nic Jones Nic Jones [Trailer - red label] (1971)
Lass of London city; Napoleon's lamentation; Bonny bunch of roses; Edward; Outlandish knight; William and Nancy's parting; Lord Bateman; Dance to your daddy; Two brothers; Banks of green willow.
LER 2028 Martyn Wyndham-Read Martyn Wyndham-Read [Trailer - yellow label]. (1971)
Green bushes; Gentle Annie; Banks of Claudy; Jamie Raeburn; Johnny Sands; Main from Buncloudy; Ryebuck shearer; Garten mother's lullaby; Overlander; Wee one; Lost sailor; Oh for me grog.
LER 2029 Dave Burland Dalesman's litany [Trailer - yellow label] (1971)
Here's the tender coming; Black cook; Lord Lovel; Blacksmith; Dalesman's litany; Beggar; William Taylor; Brisk young widow; Bleacher lassie o' Kelvinhaugh; Rosie Anderson.
LER 2030 The High Level Ranters High Level [High Level Ranters - Alistair Anderson, Tom Gilfllon, Johnny Handle, Colin Ross] [Trailer - yellow label] (1971)
Felton Lonnin; Till the tide comes in; Stay a wee bit bonnie lad; Plains of Waterloo; Hens march; Broken legged chicken; Black cock of Whickham; Trepanner song; Jolly beggar; Papa Stour; Monday morning; Through the fields reel; Tarbolton Lodge reel; I drew my ship; Hartigan's fancy; Tobin's favourite; High Level Bridge hornpipe.
LER 3031 Keith Roberts Pier of the realm [Trailer - red label] (1972)
Blackpool blues; Cage; Pit yard accident; Cobbled streets; Eawt on t' rooks; Maypole disaster; World out of coal; Lament for Albert; Goo an' cleyn thi cogs; Closing of the doss house; Last days of steam.
LER 2032 Swan Arcade Swan Arcade [Swan Arcade - Dave Brady, Heather Brady, Jim Boyes] [Trailer - yellow label] (1973)
Bright shining morning; Anti-Gallician privateer; Battle of Sowerby Bridge; Admiral Benbow; Rol, Alabama, roll; Last Valentine's Day; Lord Willoughby; Hunt is up; Peat bog soldiers; All the good times.
LER 2033 John Kirkpatrick Jump at the sun [Trailer - red label] (1972)
Devil among the tailors; Roving journeyman; Jolly ploughboys; Alle Psallite; Rambling comber; Arrnagement of Morris tunes including - Morris call, I'll go and enlist for a sailor, Cuckoo's nest [three versions], Old woman tossed up in a blanket, Rose, Black joke, Maid of the mill [two versions], Bonny green garters; Widow of Westmorland's daughter; Princess Royal; Mattheson, Johann: Gigue No. 4; Once I loved a maiden fair; Dust to dust; Puddlegum's misery hornpipe; Accordianism jig; Jump at the sun jig.
LER 3034 Roger Nicholson Nonesuch for dulcimer [with Robert Johnson] [Trailer - yellow label] (1972)
Nonesuch; Medieval garden; In good King Arthur's day; Rakes of Mallow; Bach, Johann Sebastian: Suite for cello No. 6 - gavotte in D; Newlyn Town; Howie's tune; God rest ye merry, gentlemen; Bonny lass o Fyvvio; MacPherson's rant; O'er the river Charlie; Fugue for sulcimer; Laily worm and the mackerel of the sea; Spring season; Appalachian two step; Sheep stealer; Shady grove variations.
LER 3035 Christy Moore Prosperous
LER 3036 Tim Lyons   The Green Linnet   [Trailer - red label] (1972)
You Rambling Boys of Pleasure; Lake of Coolfin; Skillet Pot; Green Fields of Canada; Greem Linnet; Limerick Rake; Van Dieman's Land, Stick to the Crater; Am Bunan Buide (The Yellow Bittern); An Droimin Don Dilis (The Sweet Brown Cow).
LER 2037 The High Level Ranters Mile to ride [High Level Ranters - Alistair Anderson, Tom Gilfllon, Johnny Handle, Colin Ross] [Trailer - yellow label] (1972)
Nae gud luck jig; Charlie Hunter jig; Cold and raw; Beeswing hornpipe; Archie Menzies reel; Border widow's lament; Mile to ride slip jig; Jockey lay up in the hayloft slip jig; Shoemaker; Shepherd's life; A U me hinny bird; Newcastle hornpipe; Gateshead hornpipe; Long Lankin; Gillan the drover; Niel Gow's wife; Dark island; Laird of Drumblair strathspey; Angus Campbell reel.
LER 2038 Ray Fisher Bonnie birdy [Performers include: Alistair Anderson; Bobby Campbell; Martin Carthy; Tim Hart; Ashley Hutchings; Peter Knight; Colin Ross; Liz Sobell; Stefan Sobell] [Trailer - yellow label] (1972)
Johnny Sangster; Mill o' Tifty's Annie; Bonny at morn; Forfar sodger; Pride of Glencoe; Silkie of Sul Skerry; Shipyard apprentice; Bonny birdy.
LER 2039 Mike Harding Lancashire lad [Trailer - yellow label] (1972)
German clockwinder; Walls of Jericho; Lancashire lads; Three ha'pence a foot; Hand waver and the factory maid; keyhole in the door; Number eighty one bus; Cock and the ass; Sodom and Gomorrah; July wakes; Hattersley lament.
LEA 4040 Gray Craig and the new North Carolina Ramblers and Tex Islay North Carolina Boys . [Grey gatefold with integral 8 page booklet] [Leader - turquoise label / orange label] (1972)
Run boy, run; Redwing; Shanty Town; Dark Town Strutters' Ball; Letter edged in black; Fly around my pretty little miss; Polecat blues; Old Joe Clark; Walking in my sleep; Greenfields; Silver Bells; North Carolina Boys; Flop-eared mule; Fourteen days in Georgia; Precious memories; Will you be true?
LEA 4041 Charlie Wills [Grey gatefold with integral 16 page booklet] [Leader - orange label]. (1972)
Derby Ram; Barbara Allen; Banks of sweet Dundee; Germany clockmaker; Game of cards; Up to the rigs of London town; Corduroy; Brennan on the moor; Ruth Butcher; Household remedies; Our goodman; Go and leave me; Oak and the ash.
LEE 4042 George Dunn George Dunn [Grey gatefold with integral 8 page booklet] [Leader - turquoise label] (1973)
Oyster girl; Cold blows the wind; Edward; Miller's song; Nottingham poacher; Young sailor bold; Here we come a-wazlin'; Nelson's death; John Riley; Henry my son; Oh, it was my cruel parents; Gallant poachers; All fours.
LEA 2043 John Doonan Flute for the Feis [Leader - turquoise label] (1972)
Sean Maguire's reel; McMahon's reel; Hunt; Smash the windows jig; Off she goes jig; Bonaparte's retreat; Sport of the chase slip jig; Flowers of Antrim hornpipe; Quarrelsome piper hornpipe; An Coolin; Fermoy lassies reel; Sporting Paddy reel; Dawn reel; Ace and deuce of pipering; Saddle the pony slow jig; Shandon bells slow jig; Little heathy hill; King of the fairies; Eileen Aroon; Bonny Kate reel; Jenny's chickens reel.
LEA 2044 Coleman Country Traditional Society Music from the Coleman Country   [Coleman Country Traditional Society - Andrew Davey, Jim Donaghue, Seamus Donaghue, Bernie Finn, Fred Finn, Oliver Killoran, John Joe Mooney, John O'Gara, Peter Horan, Seamus Tansey, Tommy Toolan] [Leader - turquoise label] (1972)
O'Rourke's reel; Wild Irishman reel; Laurel tree reel; Blackthorn stick reel; Willie Coleman's jig; Brendan Tone Rowe's jig No 2; Musical priest reel; Trim the velvet reel; Cuckoo hornpipe; Boys at the lough reel; Devils of Dublin reel; Wise maid reel; Strike the gay harp jig; Lough Gowna jig; Lord Gordon's reel; Fox chase rel; Killavil jig; Lilting banshee jig; Kid on the mountain jig; Miss McLeod's reel; Michael Rilly's reel; Martin Wynn's reel No 2; Anachuin; Morning dew reel; Woman of the house reel; Rakish Paddy reel.
LEE 4045 Lonnie Austin & Norman Woodlieff Lonnie Austin & Norman Woodlieff
LEAB 404 Copper Family Song for Every Season - the singing tradition of the Copper Family of Rottingdean, Sussex [Boxed set of 4 records with 16 page booklet] (1971)
LEA 4046 - Tater Beer Night [Leader - orange label]
Dame Durdon; By the green grove; Spencer the rover; Charming Molly; Sweep chimney sweep; Rose of Allandale; Pleasant month of May; When spring comes on; Spotted cow; Wop She 'ad it i-o; Week before Easter; Brisk and lively lad.
LEA 4047 - Black Ram [Leader - orange label]
Sheep shearing song; Adieu sweet lovely Nancy; Claudy banks; Sweet lemeney, Corduroy; Come all bold Britons; No John no; Shepherd's song; Thousands or more; Shepherd of the Downs; As I walked out.
LEA 4048 - Hollerin' Pot [Leader - orange label]
Seamen bold; When Adam was first created; Lawyer bold; Gentlemen of high renown; My love has gone; Battle of Alma; Warlike seamen; Brisk and bonny lad; Sportsmen arouse; Admiral Benbow; Wind across the moor; Oh good ale.
LEA 4049 - Turn o' the Year [Leader - orange label]
Shepherds arise; Softly the night; Christmas song; Babes in the wood; Dying soldier; Brisk young ploughboy; Heigh ho sing ivy; Jolly good song; Two young brethren; Ploughshare; Come write me down.
LEA 4050 Unto Brigg Fair Various artists   [Grey gatefold with integral with 20 page booklet] [Leader - turquoise label].   (1972)
Joseph Taylor: Sprig o' thyme; Died for love; Brigg Fair; White hare; Lord Bateman; Rufford Park Poachers; Gipsy's wedding day; Worcester City; Creeping Jane; Murder of Maria Martin; Sprig o' thyme; Bold William Taylor. Mr Thompson: Lord Bateman. Joseph Leaning: Green bushes; Sheffield apprentice. George Gouldthorpe: Horkstow Grange. Joseph Taylor: Landlord and tenant; Bold Nevison. George Wray: Lord Melbourne. Dean Robinson: Bold Robin Hood; T'owd yowe wi' one horn.
LED 2051 Irish Music from The Favourite   Jimmy Power (fiddle), Tony Ledwith (accordeon), Tom Power (guitar), Paul Gross (piano), Reg Hall (piano). (1971)
Jigs: Statia Donelly's / Mick Gorman's Fancy. Reels: Last Night's Fun / Martin Wynn's; The Woman of the House / The Morning Dew; The Donegal / The Mooncoin; Toss the Feathers / Cooley's / The Earl's Chair; Paddy Malynn's / The Green Groves; Kitty's Gone a-Milking / Miss Thornton; The Tempest / Colonel Rodney / John Morrison; Bonny Ann / Miss Johnson; The Mistress / St Anne's; The Copperplate / The Kilmaley / The Pigeon on the Gate / The Maid of Castlebar. Set Dance: Princess Royal. Jigs: Willy Clancy's / Mag Long's; Lanigan's Ball / Gallagher's Frolics; The Kesh. Hornpipe: Sean Ryan's Fancy; Hornpipe Selection.
LED 2052 Da Forty Fiddlers, Cullivoe Traditional Players, Tom Anderson, Aly Bain Shetland Fiddlers [Leader - turquoise label] (1973)
Forty Fiddlers: Galley Watch; Kail and knockit corn; Burn o' Weinerdalittle; Fashion o' da Delting lassies; Oliver Jack; Willafjord; Shaalds o' Foula; Garster's dream; Brig; Faeroe rum; Aandowin' at da bow; Forfeit o' da ship; Come agen ye're welcome; Black hat. Cullinvoe Traditional Players: Faery reel; De'il amang the tailors; Spence's reel; Lay de at dee; Oot and In da harbour; High road to Linton. Bobby Jamieson, Willie Barclay Henderson: Yellow haired lassie; Sleep soond ida mornin'. Willie Barclay Henderson, John Henderson: Crab and da capstan; Haad da thing ta Gibbie. Tom Anderson, Aly Bain: Wynadelba; Soldier's joy. Forty Fiddlers: Craw dang pussy; Whattle o't; Gordon's favourite; Laird o' Gulberwick; Auld hill grind; Fram ipon him; Jack broke da prison door; Donal' Blue; Sail 'er o'er da raftrees; De'il stick da minister; Taste da green; Harlock's reel; Robertson's reel; Hamefarers; Sixareen.
LED 2053 Virginia Reel Fiddle and banjo tunes recorded in Galax, Virginia. [Leader - turquoise label] (1974)
Kyle Creed, Bobby Patterson, Parley Grey, Roy Russell, Katie Goulding: Dance all night. Kyle Creed, Bobby Patterson: Roustabout. Kyle Creed, Bobby Patterson, Parley Grey, Roy Russell, Katie Goulding: Redwing. Kyle Creed, Bobby Patterson, Parley Grey, Roy Russell, Katie Goulding: Old country church. Kyle Creed, Bobby Patterson, Parley Grey, Roy Russell: John Hardy. Parley Gray, Bobby Patterson: Weeping Willow. Kyle Creed, Bobby Patterson, Parley Grey, Roy Russell, Katie Goulding: Pig in the pen. Kyle Creed, Bobby Patterson, Parley Grey, Roy Russell, Katie Goulding: Cacklin' hen; Kyle Creed, Bobby Patterson, Parley Grey, Roy Russell: Lost Indian. Parley Gray, Bobby Patterson, Roy Russell, Katie Goulding: Sunny side of the mountain. Parley Grey, Bobby Patterson: Sweet sunny South. Parley Grey, Bobby Patterson: Coleman Ridge backstep. Kyle Creed, Bobby Patterson, Parley Grey, Roy Russell: Soldier's joy. Kyle Creed, Bobby Patterson, Parley Grey, Roy Russell, Katie Goulding: I don't love nobody.
LEE 4054 Cecilia Costello Cecilia Costello - recording from the sound archives of the BBC [grey gatefold with integral 8 page booklet] [Leader - turquoise label] (1975)
Cruel mother; I wish, I Wwish; There was a squire in Edinboro' lived; Wexford murder; Handsome cabin boy; Betsy of Ballantown Brae; Jew's garden; I am a maid that's deep in love; Wedding song; Shule agra; Lover's ghost.
LEA 4055 Various artists Old British ballads of Donegal and Derry - Traditional singers collected by Hugh Shields. With booklet. (1975)
John Ban: The Dark Eyed Gypsy; Little Sir Hugh. Joe McCafferty: John Barbour (Willie o' Wynsbury). Willy Duggan: Baile Leo (Two Sisters). Susie Phaidi Oig: The Weary Gallows. Mr X: Willy O. John Flemming: The Hillman (Our Goodman). Eddie Butcher: The Bride Stolen by Fairies (Tam Lin); The Widow's Daughter. Alec Foster: Stock and Wall; The Creel. Charlie Somers: Barbro Allen. Mrs Tilly Quigley: The Dark-Eyed Gypsy.
LEE 4056 A Fine Hunting Day   Songs of the Holme Valley Beagles [Grey gatefold with integral 12 page booklet] [Leadr - orange label] (1975)
On a fine hunting morn; Castle Hill anthem; Old Snowball; Scent was good; Brown hare of Whitebrook; Gossip John; Hounds are out; Joe the carrier's lad; Some gentlemen take great delight; Doctor Mack; Holmfirth Anthem.
LEE 4057 Far Canadian Fields Companion to the Penguin Book of Canadian Folk Songs. Various artists   [Grey gatefold with integral 8 page booklet] [Leader - turquoise label] (1975)
Mr & Mrs Albert Simms: Loss of the Ellen Munn; Clyde Gilmour: H'Emmer Jane. Jim Docherty: When the shanty boy come down. Lennox Gavan: Lake of the Caogama. Mr & Mrs Albert Simms: Young Spanish lass. John Leahy: Lonesome scenes of winter. Mrs Arlington Fraser: Jolly raftsman o. O J Abbott: By the hush, me boys; Captain Charles Cates: Life in the prairie shack. Mrs Arlington Fraser: Young MacDonald. Mrs Eva Bigrow: Willie drowned in Ero. O J Abbott: Plains of Waterloo; Bonny bunch of roses o; O J Abbott: Weaver. Robert J Campbell: Seven gypsies on yon hill. Emerson Woodcock: Footboy.
058 Not issued
059 Not issued
LED 2060 John J Kimmel Early recordings of Irish traditional dance music   (1977)
Reels: Cuckoo's Nest / Mason's Apron; Jigs: Rakes of Kildare /Devlin's Favourite; Reels: Bonnie Kate / Swallow's Tail / Star of Munster; Medley of Clogs; Jigs: Haste to the Wedding/ Larry O'Gaff / Colairne; Irish Boy March; Jigs: Haley's Favorite; Hornpipes: Rights of Man / Liverpool / Sailor's; Reels: Floggan Reel / Cup of Tea; Jigs: Three Little Drummers / Connaughtman's Ramble / To the Ladies / Devlin's Favourite; Hornpipes: Bryant's Favourite / Birds in the Tree; Jigs: Contentment is Wealth / Untitled; Reels: Salmango / Off Key; Reels: Stack of Barley / Blackberry Blossoms / Green Fields of America; Jig: The Trip to the Cottage.
061 Not issued
LEE 4062 John Maguire Come Day, Go Day, God Send Sunday [Grey gatefold with integral 8 page booklet] [Leader - turquoise label] (1973)
Molly Bawn Lowry; Marrowbones; Bonny Irish boy; Thousands are sailing to Amerikay; Bonny wee lassie that never said no; My charming Mary; Constant farmer's son; Joe Higgins; Handsome collier lad; Dick Mooney's daughter; In praise of John Magee; Lovely Jane from Enniskea.
LED 2063 Walter Pardon Proper Sort   [Coloured gatefold with song lyrics] [Leader - yellow label]   (1975)
Poacher's fate; Let the wind blow high or low; Old Brown's daughter; Rambling blade; Van Dieman's land; Dark eyed sailor; Trees they do grow high; Ship to England came; Miller and his sons; British man-of-war; Jack Tar ashore.
064 Not issued
LEE 4065 A People's Carol   A Christmas singing tradition recorded in South Yorkshire pubs. [Grey gatefold with integral 8 page booklet] [orange label] (1975)
Hark, hark what news [Black Bull, Ecclesfield]; While shepherds (Liverpool) [Fountain, Ingbirchworth]; Jacob's Well [White Hart, Oughtibridge]; Christmas tree [Royal Hotel, Dungworth]; Arise, arise good Christians [Royal Hotel, Dungworth]; Hail! Smiling morn [Fountain, Ingbirchworth]; Star of Bethlehem [White Hart, Oughtibridge]; While shepherds (Foster) [Fountain, Oughtibridge]; Ring out ye bells [Black Bull, Ecclesfield]; Six jolly miners [Black Bull, Ecclesfield]; Merry Christmas [Toyal Hotel, Dungworth].
066 Not issued
LED 2067 Copper Family Song For Every Season - the Copper Family of Rottingdean, Sussex   [Tracks from the 4LP set] [Leader - yellow label] (1971)
Pleasant month of May; Sheep shearing song; When Adam was first created; Adieu sweet lovely Nancy; Wop she 'ad it-io; Wind across the moor; Claudy banks; Shepherds arise; You gentlemen of high renown; My love has gone; Come write me wown; Spencer the rover; Thousands or more.
LED 2068 Stephen Baldwin English Village Fiddler - BBC recordings by Peter Kennedy, 13 October 1952 [Leader - orange label] (1976)
Gloucester hornpipe [called Liverpool hornpipe on BBC list]; Greensleeves; Haste to the wedding; Flanagan's ball; Girl I left behind me; Irish washerwoman; Liverpool Hornpipe [called Swansea hornpipe on BBC list]; Napoleon's march; Cottage hornpipe [Fisher's hornpipe]; Untitled hornpipe [Liverpool hornpipe]; Off she goes; Pop goes the weasel; Coleford jig; Ted Smith's hornpipe; Untitled polka; Cock o' the north; Soldier's joy; College hornpipe [called Gipsy hornpipe and Gloucester hornpipe on BBC list]; Irish jig [Rory O'More]; Old fashioned waltz; Untitled schottische No 1; Untitled schottische No 2; Heel and toe polka; Varsoviana [not the tune usually known by this title]; Untitled hornpipe [Morpth rant]; Cabbages and onions [Phillebelulah, Cumberland reel, King of the Cannibal Isle] [called Double dee doubt, Double lead out on the BBC list]; Pretty little dear [Triumph, Stp and fetch her, Shave the donkey]; Just as the tide was flowing; Anywhere does for me (song).
LEA 2069 Beresford Band Yorkshire Dales Dance Night   [Beresford Band - Peter Beresford (electronic accordion), Mary Beresford (drums), John Wallbank (fiddle)] [Leader - orange label] (1977)
Friendly waltz; Maxina; Eva three step; Waltz Marie; Military two step; Doris waltz; Royal empress tango; Breakaway blues; St Bernard's waltz.
LED 2070 Eddie Butcher Shamrock, Rose and Thistle [Coloured gatefold with song lyrics] [Leader - orange label] (1976)
Mountain streams where the moorcock crows; Daysman; Man, woman and mouse; David's flowery vale; Tossing the hay; Conversation; Creel of peats; Killyclare; Fan; Don't come again; Farmer's daughter; Youghal harbour; Ship's carpenters wife; Another man's wedding.
LED 2071 The Rakes   The Rakes [Rakes - Paul Gross, Reg Hall, Michael Plunkett] [Leader - turquoise label] (1975)
Babes in the wood polka; All the way to Galway polka; Dashing white sergeant reel; Bottom of the punch bowl reel; Greensleeves schottische; Harry Cox's schottische; Carry me down to Carlow schottische; Geese in the bog jig; Butcher's march jig; Jimmy Garson's march; Lucy Farr's jig No 1; Lucy Farr's jig No 2; Carraroe jig; Mug of brown ale jig; Honeysuckle hornpipe; Pound Hill hornpipe; Bold Reynolds waltz; Gaelic waltz; Maggie Pickens schottische; Ma McNulty's schottische; Lucy Farr's polka No 1; Lucy Farr's polka No 2; Molly in the wood polka; Tralee Gaol polka; Maggie in the wood polka.
LER 2072 Dick Gaughan No more forever [Trailer - yellow label] (1972)
Rattlin', roarin' Willie; Briar's britches; MacCrimmon's lament; Mistress Jamieson's favourite; Jock o' Hazeldean; Cam ye ower frae France: Bonnie banks of Fordie; Thatchers o' Glenrae; Fair flower of Northumberland; Teetotaller; Tushker; Three healths; John MacLean march; Green linnet.
LER 2073 Al O'Donnell Al O'Donnell
LER 2074 Alistair Anderson Plays English concertina [Trailer - yellow label] (1972)
Noble Squire Dacre; Dookin' for apples reel; Doon reel; New policeman reel; Music in the glen reel; Kid on the mountain slip jig; Bach, Johann Sebastian: Sonata No. 6 in E - Minuets 1 and 2, Bouree; Entertainer; Hill o' Finnigirt reel; Black hat reel; Madame Bonaparte; Bach, Johann Sebastian: Suite in B minor - polonaise; City of Savannah hornpipe; Poppy leaf hornpipe; Another jig will do slip jig; To Limerick we go slip jig; Hunt the hare slip jig; Dorrington lads jig; Hawk reel; Left handed sailor reel.
LER 2075 Rosemary Hardman Firebird [Trailer - red label] (1972)
Firebird; I can find you anywhere; Way it is; Mistress of my time; Who shall count for thee?; Song to the evening sky; Horses of the sea; King William's bequests; Fiddler man; Rondeau.
LES 2076 Watersons Bright Phoebus [Coloured gatefold with song lyrics] [Performers include - Martin Carthy, Bob Davenport, Clare Deniz, Dennis Field, Richard Gold, Gordon Graham, Tim Hart, Ashley Hutchings, Sue Kirkpatrick, Bill Leader, Dave Mattacks, Keith Nichols, Maddy Prior, Sammy Rimmington, Richard Thompson, Bernie Vickers] [Trailer - red label] (1972)
Rubber band; Scarecrow; Fine horseman; Winifer Odd; Danny Rose; Child among the weeds; Magical man; Never the same; To make you stay; Shady lady; Red wine and promises; Bright Phoebus.
LER 2077 Pete and Chris Coe Open the door and let us in [Trailer - red label] (1972)
Acting song; Banks of the red roses; Cheshire May Day carol; Lady Diamond; False knight; Joseph Baker; Wizard of Alderley Edge; Wife of Usher's Well; Egloshayle Ringers; Plains of Waterloo; Hugh of Lincoln; Gay fusilier.
LER 2078 Vin Garbutt Valley of Tees [Trailer - red label] (1972)
Danny Danielle; Johnny Hart; Glens of sweet Mayo; Gallagher's frolics jig; Sally garden's reel; High reel; Valley of Tees; Barney Brallaghan's courtship; Tim le Blanc; Pat O'Donnell; White hart; Garbutt's favourite; Streets of Staithes; Mr Gunman.
LER 2079 Tom Gilfellon Loving mad Tom [Trailer - red label] (1972)
Mad Tom of Bedlam; Outlandish knight; American stranger; George Collins; Cruel mother; Dust song; Keech I' the creel; We had not been a-sailing; Garratt Barry's favourite; Frieze britches; Free and easy; Foggy, foggy dew; October song.
LER 2080 Taverners Blowing sands [[Taverners - Alan Bell, Pete Rodger, Brian Osborne, Stuat Robinson] [Trailer - red label] (1973)
Lark in the morning; Ladies dance at Whitsun; Blowing sands; Young and single sailor; Rape of Glencoe; I'm looking for a job; Sir Thomas Tylesley; Windmills; La Pique; Sambo's song; Lord Middleton; Dark island.
LER 2081 Vin Garbutt Young tin whistle pest [Trailer - red label] (1975)
Coolie's reel; My loves in Germany; Black horse; Black Lion maggot; Howard Green; Cuckoo hornpipe; Sean sa ceoigh; Slaggy Island farewell; Chemical worker's song; Dunphy's hornpipe; Rattigan's reel; Lover's ghost.
082 Not issued
LER 2083 Jon Raven, Nic Jones, Tony Rose Songs of a changing world [with booklet] [Trailer - red label / yellow label] (1973)
Rosemary; Wedgefield Wakes; Travelling people; Bad squire; Lancashire lads; Wife for sale; Poverty knock; Grinders; Hold the fort; Nailmaker's strike; Jolly Joe the collier's son; You won't get me down in your mine; Blantyre Explosion.
LER 2084 Marie Little Marie Little [with Smiley Bowker, dobro; Barry Dransfield, fiddle; Doug Sherriff, melodeon; Dave Bland, concertina] [Trailer - red label] (1973)
Shearing; For Free; Clayton Analine; Highwayman; Waiting for my Pay Day; Dark Island; Alice White; Enlisted Collier; Cock Pecked Wife; Cotton Mills; Hello! Hans; John Anderson my Jo.
LER 2085 Muckram Wakes Map of Derbyshire [Muckram Wakes - John Tams, Helen Watson, Roger Watson] [Trailer - yellow label] (1973)
Spencer the rover; Winster processional theme; Cruise of the Sun Glory; Cathy Shaw; Poor old horse; Watercress-o; Mrs Merry's Ball; Winster gallop polka; Cow i' th' gate; Squire of Tamworth; Fifty years ago; Gilliver; Bone lace weaver; Mallard; Dumper; Pulling down song.
LER 2086 Boys of the Lough Boys of the Lough [Boys of the Lough - Aly Bain, Dick Gaughan, Cathal McConnell, Robin Morton] [Trailer - Red label] (1973)
Boys of the Lough reel; Slanty Gart reel; In praise of John Magee; Wedding march from Unst; Bride's a bonny thing march; Sleep soond i' da morning march; Farewell to whiskey; Old Joe's jig; Last night's joy reel; Granny in the corner reel; Old oak tree; Caoineadh Eoghan Rua lament; Nine points of roguery; Doherty's reel; Flowing tide hornpipe; Andrew Lammie; Sheebeg and Sheemor; Boys in the gap; McMahon's reel; Jackson and Jane; Shaalds o' Foulla; Garster's dream; Brig.
LETSAM 2087 Various artists Our Folk Music Heritage [Trailer - yellow label] (1975)
Three butchers [R Bailey]; Docherty's reel [High Level Ranters]; Flowing tide [High Level Ranters]; Ower the water [B Dickson]; Dorrington lads [A Anderson]; Fiddler's Green [A Bain, M Whellans]; Skillet pot [T Lyons]; Shoemaker [High Level Ranters]; Rattling, roaring Willie [D Gaughan]; Friar's britches [D Gaighan]; Little Musgrave [N Jones]; Johnny Armstrong [C Ross]; Derwentwater's farewell [C Ross]; Ned of the hill [C Ross]; Valley of Tees [V Garbutt]; Bony birdie [R Fisher].
LER 2088 Bob Davenport, Rakes, Boldon Banjos Pal of My Cradle Days   [Rakes - Michael Plunkett, Paul Gross, Reg Hall; Boldon Banjos - Tom Ford, Norman Reid, Albert Glenwright, Bob Kane] [Trailer - yellow label] (1974)
Moving day; Twelve stone two; Around the world; Alexander's ragtime band; Durham clockmaker; Delilah; Road and the miles to Dundee; Robert E Lee; California here I come; Wheel the perambulator; Do you want your old lobby washed down?; If you knew Susie; Yes sir, that's my baby; How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm; William Brown; He's only the village postman; I don't work for a living; Dream; Kentucky waltz; Pal of my cradle days.
LER 2089 Peter Bellamy Tell it like it was [Trailer - red label] (1975)
Rambling Robin; All in a day; Parson's peaches; Ballad of Judas; Farewell to the land; Nostradamus; On board a '98; Ward the pirate; Courting too slow; Burning; Bold privateer; Fiddler's hill; Goodbye.
LER 2090 Boys of the Lough Second album   [Boys of the Lough - Aly Bain, Cathal McConnell, Robin Morton, Dave Richardson] [Trailer - yellow label] (1973)
Lerwick lasses reel; Scalloway lasses reel; Underhill reel; Galley watch reel; An Goirtin Eornan (Little stack of barley); Sally Munroe; Patsy Campbell reel; Gravel walk reel; Lough Erne; Gold ring jig; Halting march; Lovely Nancy; Merrily kiss the Quaker's wife slide; Padraic O'Keefe'sslide; Yow cam ta wir door yarmin'; Christmas Day ida mornin'; Lass with the bonny brown hair; Lowrie Tarrell reel; Mason's apron reel.
LER 2091 Nic Jones Noah's ark trap [Trailer - yellow label] (1977)
Wanton seed; Jackie Tar; Ten thousand miles; Golden glove; Indian lass; Miles Weatherhill; Isle of France; Crockery ware; Annachie Gordon.
LER 2092 Martyn Wyndham-Read Maypoles to mistletoe [with Geoff and Pennie Harris and Arky's Toast] [Trailer - yellow label] (1975)
Wait's carol [All]; Candlemas Eve [MW-R, G&PH]; April song [AT]; Birds in the spring [MW-R]; Jack in the green [G&PH]; Furry Day carol [All]; Whitsun dance [GH]; Moon to the sun [AT]; Oats and beans [MW-R, G&PH]; Arky's toast [AT]; Hare hunting [G&PH]; Jolly fellows who follow the plough [MW-R]; Pescod time [MW-R, G&PH]; Guy Fawkes [AT]; York Waites [G&PH]; Seven joys of Mary [MW-R, G&PH]; Rose of Sharon [All].
LER 2093 Muckram Wakes Muckram Wakes [Muckram Wakes - John Adams, Suzie Adams; Helen Watson, Roger Watson] [Trailer - yellow label] (1976)
Muckram Wakes; Duchess of Hamilton's rant; Bitter withy; William Taylor; T'owd brahn 'en; Two sisters; Black boy jig; Farmer's arms; Winster Wakes; Derby ram; Twenty pins; Cromford Mills; Stockinger; Peg of Derby; High Stenson the deserter; Owd Joe Biggin.
LER 2094 Roger Nicholson, Jake Walton, Andrew Cronshaw Times and traditions for dulcimer [Trailer - yellow label] (1976)
Mistress Winter's jumpe; Dowland's midnight; Mrs Whyte's nothing; Rolling of the stones; Planxty Power; O'Carolan's concerto; Follow the plough; Mr Sharp's fancy; Gypsy's wedding; Haste to the wedding; Almaine; Bogie's bonny Bell; Devil among the tailors; Donal Og; Si Bheag, Si Mor; Song of wandering Aengus; Nonesuch [revisited].
LER 2095 Cyril Tawney Down Among the Barley Straw - seduction songs from the Baring-Gould manuscripts   [Leader - yellow label] (1976)
Down among the barley straw; Young Rambleaway; Ragged beggarman; Squire and the fair maid; Hostess's daughter; A-nutting we will go; Blackbird in the bush; Strawberry fair; Cottage on the hill; Bold dragoon; Bold trooper; Miraculous hen; Barley rakings.
LER 2096 Tommy Dempsey & John Swift Green grow the laurel [Trailer - white test label, handwritten tracks] (1976)
Little beggarman; Walking in the dew; Dumb, dumb, dumb; Recruiting sergeant; Enniskillen Dragoon; Cunla dear; She moved through the fair; Green grow the laurel; Follow me down to Carlow; Blackwaterside; As I roved out; Paddy and the whale; Tri-coloured ribbon; Limerick rake.
LER 2097 Bill Caddick Sunny memories [Trailer - yellow label] (1977)
Sunny memories; Father's little black box; Military man; P-tarmigan and groaty Dick; Gibson girl; Sitting all alone; Cinderella; Tango Bleriot; Diabolo rag; All the King;s ladies; Writing of Tipperary; It's a long way to Tipperary.
LER 2098 Pete & Chris Coe Out of season out of rhyme [Trailer - yellow label] (1976)
King's song; Young Benjie; Gilsland hornpipe; Linhope lope; Farewell to the brine; Bold Reynard waltz; Cunning old traitor; Bishop of Chester's jig; Two sisters; P & O polka; Proud Lady Margaret; When this old hat wasnew; Welcome cold November.
LER 2099 Martin Simpson Golden Vanity [Trailer - yellow label] (1976)
Beaulampkin; Snowdrop; Bitter withy; Cindy; Golden Vanity; Soldier's joy; Pretty Polly; Love minus zero / no limit; George Campbell; Gotta little home to go to; Louisiana, 1927.
LER 2100 Cilla Fisher & Artie Trazise Balcanquhal (1976)
LER 2101 Tony Rose On banks of green willow [Trailer - yellow label] (1976)
Twas on one April morning; Bold Archer; Fanny Blair; Polly Vaughan; Murdered servantman; Poor man's sorrows; Banks of green willow; Lord Rendal; Bonny hind; Sir William Gower; Fourteenth of July.
LER 2102 Vin Garbutt King Gooden [Trailer - yellow label] (1976)
Road to Youghal; Paddy row back; Pretty Meggy Morrissey; Green mossy banks of the Lea; O'Dwyer's hornpipe; Parkin Raine; King Gooden; Bantry girl's lament; Ballad of Cissy Lee; Hermit of Eskdaleside; Unknown reel; Imelda Rowland's reel; Doon reel; We may and might never meet here again.
LER 2103 Dick Gaughan Kist o' gold [Trailer - yellow label] (1977)
Earl of Errol; Granemore hare; Rigs o' Rye; Gipsy laddies; Lord Randal; Maggie Lauder; Cathaoir an Iarla' Banks of green willow; 51st Highland Division's farewell to Sicily; City of Savannah; Ril gan ainm; Raglan Road; Johnny miner; Balld of accounting.
LER 2104 Andrew Cronshaw Earthed In Cloud Valley [with Martin Simpson, Holly Tannen, Rick Kemp] [Trailer - yellow label] (1977)
Murdo MacKenzie of Torridon; Eleanor Plunkett; Prince William; Fanny Power; A stor a stor a ghra; Bellringing; Elsie Marley; Go from my window; Green mossy banks of the Lea; Christmas day in the morning; Glen Cottage; Dhu Hill; Midnight on the water; Pandeirada de Entrimo; Somewhere to stay; Cutty wren.
LER 2105 Various artists Fylde Acoustic [Trailer - yellow label] (1977)
Toye [J James]; Corranto [J James]; For Wendy - a nice buzz [P Berryman]; Mr Hitler, Mr Lanigan, Mr Tobin, sandancers extroidinaire [M Harding]; Ned of the hill [S Bracken]; Green fields of America [M Simpson]; Ninth of January [M Simpson]; Heights of Alma [N Jones, C Coe, P Coe]; Sweeney's polka [M Carthy]; Georgie [C Foster]; Bainish Sineidin [V Garbutt]; Black Jock [A Fisher, L Cowan]; Mr Southcote's pavan [J Renbourn, G Giltrap]; Mr Southcote's galliard [J Renbourn, G Giltrap]; English music [M Chapman].
LER 2106 Jean Redpath There were minstrels [Trailer - yellow label] (1977)
Dumbarton's drums; Rattlin' roarin' Willie; My love she's but a lassie yet; Robin Shure in hairst; West Virginia mine disaster; Gilderoy; Sheath and knife; Yellow Yorlin; Rob Roy; No, sir; Clerk Colven; Caroline of Edinburgh town; Davie and Jeannie.
107 Not issued
LER 2108 Peter Bond Its all right for some [Trailer - yellow label] (1977)
Baron and the busker; Africa '65; Category D; Some you win, some you lose; Letter from Sunderland; Birthday cake city; Ne coals off; Lark across the vapour trail; Let it be me on your mind; It's all right for some; Joe Peel; Joker.
109 Not issued
110 Not issued
LED 2111 Walter Pardon Our Side of the Baulk [Coloured gatefold with song lyrics] [Leader - orange label] (1977)
Pretty ploughboy; Up to the rigs; I'll beat the drum again; Down by the dark arches; Grace Darling; Generals all; I'll hang my harp on a willow tree; Wreck of the Ramillies; Jones' Ale; Old miser; Balaclava.
Lough

LOUGH 001CD Welcoming Paddy Home   Boys of the Lough   (1994)
Jig, Highland, Reels: When Sick is it Tea you Want? / Donegal Highland / Johnny McIljohns No 1 / Johnny McIljohns No 2. The Irish Washerwoman / Haste to the Wedding. Reels: Cape Breton Wedding Reel No 1 / Cape Breton Wedding Reel No 2 / Cape Breton Wedding Reel No 3; The Antrim Rose / Miss McGuiness / Brereton's. March, Jig: The Teelin March / Father


Shocked? Yes, you should be, although it's been published here before. Perhaps you'll all take note this time. And do something,

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 06:17 PM

That must have taken a while to type.

I took note the first time, and I think it is horrible that these people do not have the ability to buy back their contract. It is a real shame.

There must be hundreds of dollars at stake. Life really sucks.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 06:39 PM

I realize that this is thread drift and I only use it to make a point. Years ago I was involved with a charitable organization that decided to make a cookbook as a fund-raiser. The ladies of the organization contributed their favourite recipes and they typed and prepared the pages. I was asked to arrange for printing which I agreed to do. I submitted the draft to a printing/publishing firm with a request for a quote to have the book made up . We (the organization) would be paying all costs and our expectation would be that the copies would be ours to sell or do with as we pleased. I received back a contract with a lot of fine print,and being a bit of a Philadelphia lawyer, I read it before signing. To my dismay I found that I would be conveying all copyright on the book to them. I wrote back and asked them why they would include this and the answer was that it was standard in the industry. Needless to say that they did not get the printing contract, but I always wondered how many people have had their copyright stolen by fine print?

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 07:04 PM

Also, I do wish to apologize for my cynical comment after Diane's posting. While I do belive that there needs to be some perspective on the issue that Diane drifted the thread towards, I do think that she should be commended for what she has been trying accomplish. Keeping the issue in front of people, even drifting threads, helps people learn about such issues.

I don't think that the money involved would really be significant, but that really isn't the point. What has happened is that a large group of naive British artists signed away their recordings during the late 60's and 70's.   They put their trust in a record label, and due to the law - they got screwed. Now they are being held accountable for not recognizing the potential harm that has been caused.

Yes, we all wish that there were "humanitarians" that would help get this music back to those who want it. Perhaps that would help avoid the piracy issues that are now taking people to court.

I've heard rumours that the issues that Diane speak of may be close to being resolved, and I would hope that it does - to everyones satisfaction.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 07:45 PM

Curiously there are provisions in the Bankruptcy Act 1907 that are still in force which protect an author who assigns rights to a publisher whose trustee in bankruptcy then sells the copyright - in effect the obligation to pay royalties runs with the copyright. But this has never applied to companies.

It is, incidentally, why the Small Faces wrote and recorded "All or Nothing".

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 08:29 PM

That wasn't really the situation. Those people weren't naive. there was absolutely no precedent to work out what to do, and Bill Leader's name was enormously prestigious.

The point (I hope) Diane is trying to make that the law should not simply about what is written down on bits of paper - there should be element of natural justice. Life doesn't suck. The law should get its head round the fact that hardly any of these records were sold and distributed in meaningful senses of the word.

The law isn't interested in our industry and it always sides with the assholes.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 08:48 PM

How I wish I'd had Ron Olesko's knowledge when I was a youngster starting out all those years ago. None of my contemporaries had it then either. Lucky Ron, to have so much wisdom to avoid being ripped off like we all were.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 09:17 PM

Oh, I've been ripped off too. Everyone makes mistake and does stupid things that we regret years later. I wish I could change a number of things and was more careful about decisions I made. Haven't you?

No one has that much knowledge,we only learn from the past. You can't change the past, but you can shape the future.

The wisest man was Satchel Paige. "Don't look back, the past might be gaining on you."

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: fumblefingers
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 10:37 PM

WFDU - Ron Olesko

I read this Washington Post article before the one posted here.

Download Uproar: Record Industry Goes After Personal Use

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:01 PM

That was the point Fumblefingers. The Post article was sloppy. Did you read the PDF file from the suit?   Read that and then decide. The issue is not about going after someone recording an MP3 file. Read on, and don't believe the first story you find.   It appears the writer from the Post did not do his homework.   Read!!!!

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: freightdawg
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:10 PM

This may be, and probably is, a degree of thread drift, but what about live performances? Say I go to a senior citizens center and play some covers of my favorite artists. No money changes hands, because I just want to volunteer my time to brighten an hour of some folks' dreary lives.

Does that amount to "stealing" someone's intellectual property?

What about the granny that devotes an hour each Saturday to reading children's books at the local library? Is she stealing someone's intellectual property?

The way I see it, the word "fair" in "fair use" has completely disappeared. The sad thing is, most of the time the people that are being hurt are just ordinary folks who want to play and share music they love.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 03:09 AM

Does the concept of "intent" exist in England? You can't have fraud without intent. On the other hand, what is music? I would hazard, "entertainment" perhaps? Are you entertaining the old folks? Sure, but is it for financial gain? No. How do you assess damages? In the courts its all about money and if there was no exchange of money how can there be damages?

It gets really weird. Even churches are buying cheat book hymnals! They don't want to sing Amazing Grace or Rock of Ages and get sued for copyright infringement! I think Southern Celt and Big Mick are right! They are choking the living crap out of the industry. Careful what you hum fellows, someone may be listening!

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 05:12 AM

Freightdawg, in theory you need permission from the copyright holder to perform their music. In the UK, this is managed by the Performing Rights Society, which licences premises where music is performed and distributes the money it receives to its members (composers and songwriters). As a performer, you don't need to do anything. I believe there are similar arrangements in place in other parts of the world.

The system is fairly crude, and there are complaints that it discriminates against the less well-known writers whose work isn't widely performed. But it's better than the alternative, which would mean contacting the copyright owner of every piece you perform for permission to play it, and negotiating a royalty with them.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: GUEST,buspassed
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 07:49 AM

Until the record companies produce CDs that don't mysteriously go j-j--j-j-j-j-jittery while on the shelf I'll continue to back up any new CD I purchase to hard disc!

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 10:16 PM

Just thought I would throw into the mix, organizations like BMI, ASCAP, and the other Canadian one. These orgs protect only the big stars and basically shake down small venue owners and cafes, many which have open mics with struggling songwriters. Many of the venues/cafes can barely make ends meet, let alone pay crazy fees to have live music. Which, of course, results in them not having live music or giving the indie musician chance because BMI, ASCAP, etc. scare the bewilders out of these venues. Plus, they somehow have the US Congress and courts bamboozled that they're protecting the songwriter. Which they are, but only the superstar ones.

In the case of the referenced nursing home, it seems they'd be subject to BMI, ASCAP, etc. because they have live music and by providing such to their residents who they charge for their stay...probably would be viewed as making money from the live music by making their places more attractive to residents by providing entertainment comprised of songs by songwriters who are not getting to share in the nursing homes' profits if they don't pay BMI, ASCAP, etc. I'm not aware that nursing homes are excempt from BMI, ASCAP by their self regulated standards which the US government/courts won't challenge. Somehow, though, I believe government entities are exempt from BMI, ASCAP fees...so they can have all the live entertainment they want to promote themselves without paying the fees.

I'm by no means an expert on BMI, ASCAP...but they seem like quite a racket, although they make sense in terms of radio stations having to pay a songwriter fee for all the music they sell commercials to.
But, these people actually shake down anyone they find out has live music in them unless the songwriter is performing only their own music.

Just thought I'd add this into the discussion mix.

QM

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 11:34 PM

Just to mention that, here in the US, a gentleman named Moses Asch had a record company with literally hundreds of titles. He made sure that when he died, this catalog would go to an organization (Smithsonian Institute) that would always keep these recordings available to the public. Of course, he could have made some money by selling the catalog to someone else.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Jim Lad
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 03:58 AM

Maybe my eyes are tired or something. I thought both those links were to the same article.
Look: I don't think anyone really disagrees when someone says "Stealing is stealing". Turn about is not really fair play either.
That being said, I have no sympathy for the music industry at all. Like the drowning man, they are grasping at straws and that's just fine by me. They have outlived their usefulness and were never very nice when they ruled the roost.
Kids today have no concept of how it was for us as teenagers. Waiting for Top of the Pops every Thursday then rushing out on a Saturday to pay 10/- for whichever single took our fancy. With the exception of Penny Lane & Maggie May, the 'B' side was always rubbish. 30/- would buy an album with maybe two good songs on it. But we did it.
Folk artists were the Low Budget performers and like almost every artist, had little say in what was recorded.
Still, we were loyal fans.
The record companies ruled with an iron fist, made overnight successes out of many a young artist and kept them in chains. And that was the lucky ones.
Artists and fans alike have paid their dues.
We don't need recording companies any more!
Don't need records, tapes, CDs or DVDs. A complete waste of materials.
They are really hurting. They have lived high off the hog for decades and have been left behind by a technology over which they have no control. So we allow ourselves a little smirk as they go under.
Fair enough.
Just don't get sucked into the whirlpool as they go down.
There will be time enough for celebration when they're gone.
Amen!

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 07:30 AM

6/8d for a single, Jim Lad...

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 08:23 AM

So who/where are the police that are coming to my door to arrest me for saving music on my pc?

sal

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 08:40 AM

NO ONE IS COMING TO YOUR DOOR TO ARREST ANYONE FOR SIMPLY COPYING MUSIC TO YOUR PC!!!!!!

Please do not read the Post story and assume that is the truth. It is full of holes and misinformation. Read the actual filing and see for yourself.   The issue was distribution of those files. If you make a copy for yourself - no one cares. If you make a copy to give to a friend or distribute via KaZaa, you are a "person of interest" to the record labels.

Please use common sense when reading these articles. This reporter did not do his homework. The story mentions nothing that is the actual filing, it was based on a statement from the defendant's lawyer, and the story sensationalizes one piece of misinformation. When Howell copied the song and placed it in a shared folder that could be accessed by anyone on the Internet, he did not make legal copy.

Don't allow yourself to get sucked up by sensastionalism. The Record companies have a lot of problems, and they operate with their head up their ass, but piracy effects ALL of us. We are in this screwed up situation largely because of it, and because the record labels do not have a clue.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 09:15 AM

What will, in my opinion, 'kill' the record industry in a positive way will be a continuation of the situation where artists and small labels do their own thing using new (and old) technology. Apart from when it comes to promoting either X-factor style light entertaintment or wringing the last drops of life out of the bloated corpse of corporate rock (so as to speak), I really can't see the point in the lumbering dinosaurs that are the major record labels continuing to exist. They've served their purpose, now it's time to move on. Ok, probably no-one making music is going to get mega-rich wthout them - but most don't anyway, and no-one, including musicians, really needs to make anything beyond a decent living... not that most even achieve that!

What will 'kill' the record industry in a negative way is the continued existence of and pandering to little toerags who think its ok to give away stuff that isn't theirs, whether it be via filesharing or music blogs. Just because the record industry is run by a conniving bunch of ne'er-do-wells, it doesn't give every Tom, Dick and Harry who fancies themselves as Robin Hood the carte blanche to jump on the bandwagon!

An example. A friend of mine's band did a rather good folk rock album (in the loosest sense of the word) last year. It then turned up as a free download on a blogsite (I'm not going to name it here, as I wouldn't want to give the blogger the publicity, but musicians who want to check their stuff isn't there can PM me for details) before he'd even finished paying for the recording of it! The blogger took it down when asked, but the point is, he shouldn't have put it up in the first place without asking. And it's not exactly going to encourage people to carry on making music if other people are intent on denying them the chance to even cover their costs... Finally, there were no major labels or striking of blows against 'the man' involved, as my friend's album came out on a relatively hand-to-mouth indie label. Just more bad manners, thoughtlessness and selfishness, I reckon.

Even of me going on with myself.

Cheers

Nigel

PS am I allowed to name the record and encourage you all to go out and buy it?

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 09:17 AM

'Enough' not 'even' towards the end.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 10:00 AM

So the product is its own advertisement. "Hey Mike! Have you heard this Joe Banger fellow. He's got a sound I like. Hear listen!" Huh Oh! Can't do that!

We have a little quarter-mile race track in our town and there is a little hill with private residences which overlooks it. The race crowd calls it "Cheapskate Hill". They finally put up No Parking signs and the police patrol it, issuing citations. So the cheapskates park below now and walk up. "No Loitering" so they kept moving. Finally no one was allowed to pass the same point in a ten minute period. That seemed to do the trick but then the patrols became lax. The point is that there are always some bottom feeders who don't recognize borders. At some point it becomes a problem. Parasites can take down a host.

My original point was you have to get it out there in order to sell it. Honest Folk will give you your due. I belonged to a worthless union for years. They were supposed to be for the worker and they would pitch a bone every now and then and a lot of propaganda about how important they were to us. It seems corruption comes from both ends. Greed at the top, need at the bottom. I'm still perplexed.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 12:26 PM

There are several issues here that get confused and muddled. Often, some opinion about one is used to defend some principle in another.

   There are laws which attempt to define certain rights and restrict or allow certain behavior according to those right.
   Then, there are 'principles' that loosely suggest what the laws should be, and that often go beyond what the laws manage to accomplish.

There are, for instance, laws about jaywalking. Most people understand that they are not 'supposed' to cross certain roads except at designated, marked places...but these rules are VERY often ignored. And the authorities KNOW they will be ignored, and police who see jaywalking often ignore the offense. But, the law IS there so that it CAN be enforced when broken in an egregious manner, and to place blame or mitigate blame in case of a mishap.
   SOME of the copying, sharing and DRM rules in the music industry are similar.

Then, there are the 'laws' about which there are questions as to the fairness or sense OF the law.....as in the laws which allowed the recording companies to rip off artists for many years. This gets into the slippery debate over 'morality'.
(If *I* were in charge, the 'law' would be changed retroactively to dis-allow a producer from simply re-selling an artist's contract, and would require renegotiating of the contract with the artist or his heirs. Fat chance, huh?)

Finally, there is the issue of 'practicality'...both in law enforcement and what KIND of laws to write as the technology changes. We had 'laws' when analog tape-recording was about the only way to 'steal' music...but copies weren't usually as good then, and were transferred WAY more slowly and at LEAST required buying some tape! Now we have artists losing control of their product almost before they have it finished! Why is this important? Because for BIG artists, it means BIG money. Even IF the old style 'producer' or promoter gets removed from the loop, there is a lot of potential money that gets lost.

Several things can happen...musicians can scale back their notion of what they can expect to 'earn' from writing/performing. Or, the technological efforts can continue to encrypt, encode and restrict, digital 'property'. Or, new rules can be written which make it less tempting to 'steal'..(such as CD Baby and other 'fair' sales techniques). Or maybe some other still barely imagined possibilities.

It is clear that NO law can be written which covers all the possible issues, or which makes everyone happy. It is also clear that it is almost impossible to restrict copying & sharing of any desirable digital material. (even books were photocopied as soon as Xerox was available...now Google is pushing the limits of the laws in THAT medium!).

I suspect that my 1st idea will be a major outcome...that musicians and some other artists will ultimately scale back their expectations...except for those who can draw crowds for live shows. Sad? Unfortunate? Yes, I guess so. But even live shows can, and will be 'stolen' with fancy new technology, just as they were with cassette recorders under coats.
   It may ultimately be up to each individual artist or group to decide if and how they wish to protect their 'rights'...if they can even keep track of what those rights ARE in this Brave New World.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: Jim Lad
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 12:31 PM

Showing your age, Richard.

Subject: RE: How to kill the record industry...
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 03:40 PM

"That must have taken a while to type."

cut and pasted from Here