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Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico
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Subject: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Seán Báite Date: 31 Dec 07 - 08:09 PM A friend of my family has been locked up in New Mexico partly due to a civil offence (committed in New York - crime passionel) mostly due to being illegal in the US. His family is very worried about him as the US authoriies give him no right to access contacting the outside world. Obviously, from an Irish perspective, it's fairly worrying that he was arrested in New York/New Jersey and then transferred to 1,500 miles from there to New Mexico (for no apparent reason). If anyone is in the state of New Mexico, they could maybe contact the poor guy in his place of detention and reassure his family back in Ireland. If anyone has the possibility to do so could they please get back on to me by PM and I'll try to get you in contact him and then with his family.. Thanks in advance.... Seán Báite |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Beer Date: 31 Dec 07 - 08:58 PM Good luck Sean. Beer (adrien) |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Seán Báite Date: 31 Dec 07 - 09:04 PM Adrien - it's not all that frivolous, I'm afraid - it's really a case of a poor sod stuck in jail thousands of miles from home who's prevented from contacting his family (apologies - my post has ended up in the music threads when it should be in the 'off subject' threads) |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Sorcha Date: 31 Dec 07 - 09:05 PM Eh? Since when is this the All World Social Worker check in site? Are you SURE this isn't some 'Nigerian scam'? Yes, we have members in NM, but even I wouldn't ask this of them! |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Sorcha Date: 31 Dec 07 - 09:06 PM Sean, pick up a telephone...... |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Maryrrf Date: 31 Dec 07 - 09:46 PM Whatever the case he should be entitled to some kind of legal representation, and if he can't afford a lawyer they should appoint one. I'm surprised he wasn't allowed to contact his family. Keep us posted. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Rapparee Date: 31 Dec 07 - 09:53 PM Probably convicted and sentenced out East and transferred to a prison out West. Probably a privatized one. He still can contact his family; the US government doesn't forbid it. He should also be able to contact the Irish Embassy or the nearest Irish Consulate, even if he were here illegally. I suggest that he do that. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: GUEST,PJ Date: 31 Dec 07 - 09:54 PM Would you kindly tell us exactly WHAT he is accused of? "Crime passionel" generally means killing someone. It's hard to believe that he's been put in jail for no reason. And your post is very obviously evading this not-inconsequential point. Please - OBJECTIVELY (otherwise you're weakening your own case) - state what this man has allegedly done. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Sorcha Date: 31 Dec 07 - 10:07 PM And crime passionel/murder is hardly a 'civil matter'!! I don't normally respond to just Guest, but what on EARTH does this mean? "SORCHA (inside connections) and I know how to "do it"" Double quote added by me. SORCHA is my name...not some acronym for a weirdness. Regarding illegal immigrants, even political prisoners have rights. (I know, not as many as they used to have...read Patriot and Homeland Security) but if he is IRA/political he may have some difficulties contacting 'home'. Indeed, have him contact the Embassy or Consualte. Please, this is interesting. Do let us know more. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: artbrooks Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:10 PM I will be doing some calling, and responding to Sean directly. Art in New Mexico |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: GUEST,Kate Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:13 PM Still waiting to hear what he's been charged with. Come on Sean, it's a fair question. Feels like you're dodging it. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: GUEST,PJ Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:27 PM > partly due to a civil offence (committed in New York - crime passionel) A crime of passion and a civil offense are pretty much a contradiction in terms. WHAT is going on? |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: artbrooks Date: 01 Jan 08 - 09:07 AM In the US, a "crime passionel" generally refers to such things as killing your lover for spreading her favors around. I don't think that either Sean or his family friend are Americans and don't have the same frame of reference. Info I was sent separately, since I said I'd try to do some checking, indicates that Sean doesn't know the specifics himself, so let's give the guy a break, eh. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: GUEST,Sparkles Date: 01 Jan 08 - 09:36 AM Fine. WHEN we are given some clear info. We still haven't been told what the crime is. Sean's posts are very vague (if not evasive). Why is he asking us to help someone if he doesn't even know (or is not telling us) what this guy is supposed to have done? The meaning of "crime of passion" is pretty clear worldwide (the French obviously use the term). I don't believe that putting it in brackets next to "civil offense" is ignorance. He started this thread. But it's not telling the whole story, which makes it feel like it's being slanted to get the sympathy vote. I'll give him a break - or not - when I have some FACTS. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: GUEST,Slag Date: 01 Jan 08 - 10:22 AM Regardless, send donations here..... |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Seán Báite Date: 01 Jan 08 - 01:53 PM OK, precisions on what the guy did - he got a bit upset when he returned from work to find his wife in bed with another man and took it out on the poor fella. He was also in the US illegaly. He is in no way a political prisoner. I'm not in any way condoning what he did - but it's just that he is left very isolated - especially by the fact they've tranferred him to New Mexico. As far as I understand it he will be deported in 6 weeks to 2 months. I hope the guy wasn't all that badly hurt - I suppose that if they're deporting him that quick - it doesn't look like the type of sentence I'd expect for GBH (or the US equivalent) - seems to me they're only concerned with his lack of a visa. He has managed to be put in contact with an Irish consulate alright. My post here was just trying to see if people can get him in contact with maybe a chaplain or prisoner/immigrant support people that might be able to visit/advise him or help to re-assure his family at home. News is filtering through to his family of him but not in a very steady fashion. If people are genuinely interested in trying to help they can PM me for specific details as Art had the kindness and decency to do. All the best Seán |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 01 Jan 08 - 02:05 PM ICPO (Irish Commission for Prisoner's Overseas) The Irish Commission for Prisoners Overseas (ICPO) is a voluntary agency that provides assistance to Irish prisoners overseas and to their families in Ireland. It provides relevant information to prisoners and groups caring for their welfare. The ICPO focuses public attention on issues affecting Irish prisoners overseas as well as seeking justice and human rights for Irish emigrants and prisoners on an international level. For more information contact: ICPO, Columba Centre, Maynooth, Co Kildare Tel: + 353 1 505 3156 Fax: + 353 1 601 6401 OR in the UK: ICPO Office, 50-52 Camden Square, London NW1 9XB, Tel: + 44 207 482 4148 Fax: + 44 207 482 4815 From the website http://www.emigrant.ie/article.asp?iCategoryID=510&iArticleID=5591 There's also http://www.emigrantadvice.ie/ |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 01 Jan 08 - 02:08 PM Woops, sorry, that second link seems to be to some other page. Try just clicking around from the home page: http://www.emigrant.ie |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 01 Jan 08 - 02:10 PM I mean the FIRST link. D'OH! Too much new year's happy juice... |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Jan 08 - 02:13 PM I can't think of a better place than this to take a long shot on finding someone the other side of the world to help out in this kind of situation, and it looks as if it may have achieved that. With the actual details wisely being reserved for PMs, rather than for discussion on an open thrread - because as well as the helpful souls Seán is looking for there are a few of the other kind. (Including, it would appear, that GUEST at 31 Dec 07 - 09:52 PM. And you wouldn't want to open up about anything with the likes of that one sticking his or her nose in.) |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: freightdawg Date: 01 Jan 08 - 03:11 PM I've been following this thread out of curiosity since I am a native and currently residing in good ol' Nuevo Mexico. The question I would like answered is, why New Mexico for crying in the grog? Is it because Bill Richardson is running for president and someone in Hillary Clinton's state wanted to do some international damage wreaking? By the way, Richardson is basically a non-contender anyway, so that hypothesis goes out the door. If you're looking for a state that uses penal institutions as a growth industry, why fly over Texas? Communities in Texas fight like cats and dogs to get a new prison built in their region (don't ask, I don't know why). Even as geographically challenged as I am, I can look at a globe and figure out the NY is a lot closer to Ireland than NM. Mind you, I am not complaining, or making a statement about the propriety of the exchange. I'm just really curious why a back water banana republic state like NM would house this particular prisoner. (And before anyone flies off the handle, the terms "back water" and "banana republic" are made affectionately, and have local significance. I was born in Santa Fe and will die with green chile coursing through my veins. We may be weird, but we're lovable.) Freightdawg |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: ard mhacha Date: 01 Jan 08 - 04:09 PM Don`t be surprised what these bastards will do, the poor man was lucky he wasn`t shipped out to Guantanamo. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: DougR Date: 01 Jan 08 - 04:27 PM Naw, Ard, even Bush wouldn't send an Irishman to Guantanamo! There would be rioting in the streets. :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Jan 08 - 05:15 PM iraq, Iran, Irel... How can you expect the man to tell the difference between these places... |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Jan 08 - 01:07 AM We've been hearing about some of these centers where individuals and families are held before they are deported. And many aren't in immigration holding facilities, they're in jails and prisons. It's a really really gray area in the legal system, and little of it is very logical in planning or execution. There are often arrangements made in communities with a high density of prisoners to farm them out (at a tidy profit) to jails in less populated regions of the state or to other states altogether. This fellow could be part of that distribution. Wackenhut is one company big in that, though I don't see a New Mexico site listed in the page linked below. I found a web site for the Bill of Rights Defense Committee (BORDC) at http://www.bordc.org/threats/detention.php. This is the introductory paragraph on the page I linked to:
The Texas facilities are a disgrace, particularly for separating families as they await hearings or deportations. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Seán Báite Date: 02 Jan 08 - 02:46 AM Thanks a lot Bonnie - will pass on the phone no. of the ICPO in Ireland to the family. Looks just like the type of organisation liable to be able to help. No worries about your blue clicky problems - won't even attempt one of them myself until February :-> when the looney soup levels are back to normal. Transferring prisoners thousand of miles, 'farming them out' as if they're livestock, 'Homeland Security', private jails - this thread has opened up some 'appaling vistas' to me as some English (?) judge (?) once said regarding the Birmingham six / Guildford four. Thanks for all the helpful replies and 'get a life' to the couple of eejits in the mix. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Bee Date: 02 Jan 08 - 09:45 AM Wishing the prisoner's family best of luck in reassuring themselves of his welfare. As for the fellow himself and anyone who thinks like him: no good ever comes of physically assaulting one's wife/husband/lover or their object of dalliance. It's stupid. It is NOT forgiveable, or particularly understandable, as millions of people manage to get over such emotional shocks without knocking someone around or killing them. The tacit acceptance/defense of such behaviour in some societies has led to horrendous violence against individuals, particularly women. Brazil has a nasty history in this regard, with men who kill or mutilate 'their' women often getting off with a wrist slap, since they were 'defending their honour'. I have good personal reasons for being really put off by such attitudes and actions. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 02 Jan 08 - 09:54 AM 'he was arrested in New York/New Jersey and then transferred to 1,500 miles from there to New Mexico (for no apparent reason).' Sean, that makes no sense. For one thing, New York and New Jersey are two entirely different states with different governments and different cops. Which one was he arrested in? If you don't know, then you don't know enough about this case. The cost of sending a person from New Jersey to Mexico, closely supervised at every step, would be very high. Why would the gov't spend money to transport him to New Mexico? Why would New Mexico accept responsibility for him if he has committed no crime there? Either your post is not sincere or you are not getting the whole story. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: ard mhacha Date: 02 Jan 08 - 09:57 AM To inconvenience his friends or relations they transfer him as far away as possible, this was the method used by the Brits when visitors arrived at the prison the prisoners had already been transferred to another prison. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: artbrooks Date: 02 Jan 08 - 10:29 AM Without getting into information I received via PM, perhaps it might be useful to clarify one thing: as Sean said in his initial post, this guy is being held primarily on immigration charges - which is a Federal rather than a state offense. The Feds will generally place an individual in whatever Federally operated or contracted facility that has space available and is of the appropriate security level. There is at least one contractor-operated Federal prison in New Mexico, constructed in 2003. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Bert Date: 02 Jan 08 - 11:43 AM I worked with a US citizen who went to jail for a very similar crime. He spent a few years there. So I wouldn't have thought that a few months would be a serious injustice. Also, The guy is in jail. What does it matter where the jail is? It is also possible that New Mexico has special jails for people who are going to be deported. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Jan 08 - 12:07 PM No more special, Bert, than the jails in any other state. The dollars are continually made available to build more prisons and jails rather than to consider other options for offenders. Investors get rich with contracts to build prisons or house prisoners, and they contribute to campaigns, so there is little incentive to fix the system. Is the convicted person dangerous to others? If not, then why put them in prison? Are they in prison because they couldn't get good legal representation? Many are. Why isn't the public defender program better funded? There are a lot of important questions to do with the U.S. justice system and the jails and prisons associated with it. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: ard mhacha Date: 02 Jan 08 - 01:39 PM It is very important for his friends in the New York area having to travel 1500 miles. This is a hell of a difference are you people the owners of pivate jets, think about it. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Becca72 Date: 02 Jan 08 - 02:27 PM Prisoner "trading" happens all the time all over the country and has nothing at all to do with his being here illegally. He will be deported not only because he is here illegally but also because he is not a citizen and commited a crime. If he had a visa and committed the same offense the punishment would remain the same. He will be deported and not allowed to return to the US. (my ex works for ICE). |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 02 Jan 08 - 02:35 PM Better a deportation than a long jail sentence - |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Jan 08 - 02:47 PM Prisoner "trading" happens all the time all over the country Why doesn't sending prisoners thousands of miles away from their family and friends count as a "cruel and unusual punishment"? I don't particularly mean this particular prisoner, but Becca seems to be saying this it is normal practice in the States. Though I suppose, if its normal practice in the United States, it wouldn't count as "unusual" - and being cruel on its own isn't enough. That was a very clever bit of draughtsmanship in the Constitution... |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Wesley S Date: 02 Jan 08 - 03:31 PM And west of Texas too. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Jan 08 - 03:49 PM By the time they've sent him to New Mexico and back it will have been quite a bit more travelling than if they'd sent him home directly. And they'd still have to send him home: Distance from New York to Albuquerque, 2928 kilometres or 1819 miles x 2 = 5896 kilometres or 3638 miles. Distance from New York to Dublin, 5120 kilometres or 3181 miles (From this handy site) |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Beer Date: 02 Jan 08 - 04:19 PM Your site looked exciting and was going to book mark it until I typed in the distance from Montreal to Toronto 502kl. which is not to bad. But when I entered Montreal to Halifax Nova Scotia and got 793 Kl. It is way off way. Should be between 1372kl. and 1314 kl. Thanks just the same. Beer (adrien) |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Seán Báite Date: 02 Jan 08 - 05:14 PM I see there are a few SUN 'readers' coming around after their New Year's coma. I thought that sort of neanderthal shit had died out with Bernard Manning (or is he still alive ??). Bee, I can't disagree with your point as I said I in no way condone what he did - if a court and a jury decides he deserves his punishment, I'm not to argue with them. However it seems the immigration issue is dictating the rather strange choice of place of detention (pending deportation) rather than the offence he's accused of. I don't even have confirmation that charges have been pressed. I don't think the transfer to New Mexico has to do with a deliberate desire to inconvenience his relatives/friends (as I can see with Basque prisoners here in France who are deliberately detained in the North of France) but it seems to come from the almost as appaling motivation of this farming out of prisoners for what seems to be commercial reasons. I thought we were bad enough in Europe with the states (badly) running prisons but I can't imagine how they can be run by private companies.. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Seán Báite Date: 02 Jan 08 - 05:17 PM Sorry - reference to SUN readers was to a couple of particularly idiotic posts that seem to have been deleted by the powers that be as I was typing my reply ... There don't seem to be any left in the posts above - I withdraw the accusation. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Jan 08 - 05:33 PM To inconvenience his friends or relations they transfer him as far away as possible, this was the method used by the Brits ... As soon as I saw a thread about an Irishman being mistreated I was wondering how long it would take to blame the bastard Brits. What took you so long Ard? ;-) I still don't see the sense of the move but surely if the guy IS guilty of murder then it is up to the authorities in the country he is in how he is treated isn't it? I know we need to fight oppression and unfair treatment but don't things like torture and summary execution in 3rd world countries take precidence over inconveniencing the families of murderers? Even if they are Irish? Tell me what I am missing. Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 02 Jan 08 - 05:49 PM When his sentence is completed, he will be deported by the federal authorities. End of problem. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: artbrooks Date: 02 Jan 08 - 05:53 PM Based on just about as much hard data as anyone else commenting here - that is to say, absolutely none - my best guess would be that the US Marshals Service really could have cared less about inconveniencing any hypothetical friends and/or relatives he has or had in New York. Even assuming that there was an empty room in a New York prison, if the projected cost for housing him in the slammer in New Mexico plus his transportation there (including, probably, an escort) was less than the projected cost in New York, than off he would go. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Sorcha Date: 02 Jan 08 - 06:07 PM Shipping prisoners out of area is a business here. A lot of prisons are owned by For Profit corps....not at all unusual. The county I live in takes Federal prisoners for payment/per diem. Quite a money maker for the county budget. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Jan 08 - 08:04 PM "...if the guy IS guilty of murder" There doesn't appear to be any suggestion that this is the case. I know "crime passionel" can refer to killing, but it can equally cover any lesser assault arising from similar motivation. Seán's remark "As far as I understand it he will be deported in 6 weeks to 2 months" does seem to indicate an assault well short of murder. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Alice Date: 02 Jan 08 - 11:44 PM He may be better off in a New Mexico jail than in a New York one. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Seán Báite Date: 03 Jan 08 - 05:37 AM Dave - yes, as (Paul/Master?) McGrath of Harlow reminds you, he hasn't murdered anyone and I'm not suggesting he's being mistreated because he's Irish and definitely not that 'the Brits' are involved. I assume most US citizens who can't afford decent legal representation (which is a good chunk of them) end up in the same sort of Kafka-esque scenario in similar circumstances. Where he's being held, I also assume the majority of his fellow detainees are of Hispanic origin also awaiting deportation. No particular propensity to piss off solely the Irish, as far as I can see. Definitely no involvement by Her Majesties Government. We're not trying to get him out or acquitted - that's for a US court to decide, clearly. We're just looking for means of getting around the isolation arising from his being locked up 1500 miles from his immediate family and 4500 miles away from the rest of his family (in Dublin). |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 Jan 08 - 07:33 AM Talkling of New Mexico justice - did they ever pardon Billy the Kid? |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 Jan 08 - 10:08 AM Come to think of it Billy was another Irish bloke in trouble with the law in New Mexico. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Dave the Gnome Date: 03 Jan 08 - 01:57 PM Thanks for the clarification, Sean. I assumed the same as PJ and a few others before me. In PJ's words '"Crime passionel" generally means killing someone.' Your own description did nothing to allay that miscomprehension with your phrase 'he returned from work to find his wife in bed with another man and took it out on the poor fella.' Apologies for my incorrect assumption but I think you can see how it arose! So. The chap was in the US illegaly. He then went on to beat someone up, for which he has been arrrested and you have no issues with that. He is, apparantly, going to be deported in 6-8 weeks yet there seems to be some sort of issue with him being isolated from his family? I am normaly a reasonably compasionate man but I am missing something here. Can he not just do his 2 months and get it over with? Maybe if he is still there in June I would start to get edgy but until then I really don't know what, if any, help I can give! BTW - The posting about the Brits mistreating the Irish was not mine. Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Seán Báite Date: 07 Jan 08 - 04:39 PM The guy at the origin of this thread is, according to my family in Ireland, to be deported in the coming days. This reassures me on 2 counts - 1/ he no longer has to endure the barmy US prison system (serving time 1,500 miles away from where you do the crime in a private prison) 2/ proof that the assault that caused his problems in the first place was a very minor one indeed - it look like charges have not even been pressed - as I understand it US law insists that if an offence has been committed by an 'illegal' the sentence is served in the US before deportation. Ergo, his original offence seems to have been a minor one indeed. Thanks again to those who gave advice / PMed me. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Rapparee Date: 07 Jan 08 - 09:42 PM Actually, US law requires that anyone who cannot afford an attorney be provided with one. One of the members of my Library Board is a member of the Public Defender's office and from roughly March to June he poured all he had into defending a couple of indefensible 18-year-olds. I mean, they videotaped themselves planning and all but committing a nasty, brutal stabbing murder of a classmate. It took A LOT out of Dave, so much so that his father was worried about Dave's health. Both got life without parole, by the way. And they were lucky at that. |
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Subject: RE: Help Irish Guy Locked Up in New Mexico From: Donuel Date: 08 Jan 08 - 04:37 PM Did he expose his inner child? People want to know. |
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