Rosin - too much or too little?

Subject: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: Herge
Date: 06 May 99 - 04:05 PM

My fiddle bow is slipping! How do I know if it is because I've too much rosin on it? And if that is the problem how do it get it off?

Thanks Herge

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 May 99 - 04:09 PM

Herge, I might be wrong, but in all of the years I've played, it's been my experience that you can never have too much rosin on your bow, esp. if you play often. BUT, I could be entirely wrong. I am sure someone on here will be ableto tell us more. Good question.

kat

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: MMario
Date: 06 May 99 - 04:12 PM

I thought rosin was to INCREASE the friction between bow and string....I know in gymnastics it PREVENTS slipping of the grip, and in polishing it is an abrasive, which would tend to prevent slipping...

MMario

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: SeanM
Date: 06 May 99 - 04:28 PM

I'm going to come down on the 'sounds like too little' side. My Grandfather played for decades, and his opinion was 'you only have too much when every time you draw the bow, you sneeze from the cloud'

Seriously... bow slipping is either too little, or rosin that's become useless for whatever reason (I understand that leaving it in the sun solidifies it... don't know if it's true, but it sounds good.)

M

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From:
Date: 06 May 99 - 05:34 PM

I thought too much rosin can damage the finish on the fiddle.

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From:
Date: 06 May 99 - 05:45 PM

rosin (or resin) is used on bow hair to make the tiny "barbs" of horse hair stand up, therby making them act as little picks or plectrum as they are drawn across the string. By making sure the hair that is being used is real (I'm told bleached Chinese horse tail hairs are the best) and by scratching the surface of a brick of rosin (Pirastro is one of the best, I am told) and carefully pulling the bow across the brick (from tip to frog and back again), the bi-directional layout of the hairs ( if applied properly in the first place) will work with a minimum of rosin-usually 4 or 5 strokes. Well that is about all I know about that, please keep in mind that I am a sax player and what I know about the fiddle would only fill a capful! Best Wishes-Jack.

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: SeanM
Date: 06 May 99 - 06:38 PM

True, too much rosin CAN damage the finish... actually, ANY amount of rosin can. It's a good idea to clean the surface of the face after playing anyway... cleans off any sweat, dust, hair, beer, broken glass, whatever...

M

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 May 99 - 07:21 PM

Man! I have been playing a fiddle for over 30 yrs off and on, said fiddle which is close to one hundred years old and the finish looks fine. Didn't know it could hurt the finish. I do have an old, very soft hankie which I do keep it wiped down with, so maybe that's why I still have a decent finish with a really pretty aged patina.

I didn't mean that I slather it on, but do rosin it up at least a few strokes each time I play. I think it is the same way that I cook: never measure, just guestimate and when you've done it long enough you almost always get it right!

kat

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: Vixen
Date: 07 May 99 - 09:25 AM

Funny this should come up...My partner just read in a fiddle repair/maintenance book that if you get too much rosin on the bow, it will clog the windings on the strings, making them slippery and frictionless.... Have no idea if it's true, but there you have it...

V

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 07 May 99 - 10:09 AM

Anyone know of a good website anywhere with basic fiddle-type info on it? I am trying to learn by ear, but all the books I see are full of written tunes - whereas I just want a little bit of a hint or two. I don't need to learn to play really properly, just enough to enjoy myself in my own little way...

Kris

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: Herge
Date: 07 May 99 - 02:30 PM

Thanks for all the thoughts. Ssomeone mentioned the horse hair acting like barbs or plectrums so it my be possible to clog them up with roisin. If that is the case I'm reluctant to add more rosin and end up making matters worse. I've heard you can wash the hair but this will be the last resort. I could also have it re-srrung as that is cheeper than a set of strings.

Thanks Herge

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: mountain tyme
Date: 07 May 99 - 04:41 PM

You just can't have to much rosin on your bow...especially if your just starting to learn. Work the entire length of bow hair thru the rosin at a fast pace till it warms....then nice slow strokes and you will feel the increased drag. After you learn proper hair tension and pressure (read ten years) you will need less rosin. The rosin that falls to the fiddle top is of no consideration if you paid less than $80,000 for that fiddle. Those that use finger or flat picks will ask for a swipe of rosin dust to make their picks stick to their fingers better. My fiddles look like birds been perching on them....I like that look...those that don't can wipe theirs off with a soft dry rag. Practice in the dark. You'll learn twice as fast. Tune each string down at the end of each session to releive pressure. Tune back up next time you want to play. You will learn tuning unaided by remote pitch and be able to tune up perfect even during a bombing or when others are off pitch. Cheers!

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: Alice
Date: 07 May 99 - 07:18 PM

There is quite a discussion of rosin and its use, the pros and cons of different brands, etc. at this forum click

The discussion includes this comment " The Nymans has a tendency to glaze the hair , particularly in warmer situations, so that it will eventually create a slippage of the bow on the strings no matter how much rosin is applied. Kolstein's actually functions better in warmer situations and will almost rejuvenate itself when the hair or strings become heated, due to friction of playing. Just keep in mind most rosins are not compatable with each other and for best results, it is always prefered to have fresh hair with the change of a rosin. If this is not feasable, the best thing is to practice for a day or two not using any rosin. This will allow the hair to empty itself of residual build-up of accumulated rosin and hopefully allow the new rosin to impregnate the hair, not just sit on top of old rosin. Any addition questions on Kolstein rosin or rosin in general, I will be most happy to answer. I have been involved in rosin making for over 25 years and feel we have a great deal of input to offer on the subject. -Barrie Kolstein"

Again, the entire discussion on rosin is at Rosin

alice

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: Alice
Date: 07 May 99 - 07:18 PM

There is quite a discussion of rosin and its use, the pros and cons of different brands, etc. at this forum click

The discussion includes this comment " The Nymans has a tendency to glaze the hair , particularly in warmer situations, so that it will eventually create a slippage of the bow on the strings no matter how much rosin is applied. Kolstein's actually functions better in warmer situations and will almost rejuvenate itself when the hair or strings become heated, due to friction of playing. Just keep in mind most rosins are not compatable with each other and for best results, it is always prefered to have fresh hair with the change of a rosin. If this is not feasable, the best thing is to practice for a day or two not using any rosin. This will allow the hair to empty itself of residual build-up of accumulated rosin and hopefully allow the new rosin to impregnate the hair, not just sit on top of old rosin. Any addition questions on Kolstein rosin or rosin in general, I will be most happy to answer. I have been involved in rosin making for over 25 years and feel we have a great deal of input to offer on the subject. -Barrie Kolstein"

Again, the entire discussion on rosin is at Rosin

alice

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: Herge
Date: 08 May 99 - 06:27 AM

I've seen session fiddlers when in need of roisin during a session, run the bow under the strings to collect the powered build up... This couldnt be too good for the bow??? Any thoughts?

Herge

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: SueH
Date: 10 May 99 - 08:07 AM

Dear Herge

It really might be a good idea to have a few(?) lessozns; bow slipping can also be cause by your bowing technique, & this is the hardest part of fiddling to learn. Take my word for it!

SueH

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: Chet W.
Date: 10 May 99 - 12:31 PM

I like more rosin. I keep a small piece of sandpaper in the fiddle case to rough up the surface of the rosin cake so more will stick to the bow. And running the bow under the strings to pick up accumulated rosin powder is something I learned watching the old guys like Tommy Jarrell and Ralph Blizzard. It's the best rosining my bow ever gets. Also, I wonder if anyone else does this: I use a viola bow to play my fiddle because I like the extra weight; It seems to bring more sound out of the fiddle. Anyone else do this?

Chet W.

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 May 99 - 12:42 PM

Interesting idea, Chet. I'll have to try it. SueH, good point! I should've thought of it! I got blue ribbons in school for my bowing technique. Now, after not playing hardly at all for many years, I am practising consistently and finding I have to really watch that old bow! You are so correct; it is so important to good playing to watch your bowing. Make sure it stays in an even spot between the bridge and neckpiece(can't remember the correct name) and that it doesn't skew off at the end. The most important point to watch is your elbow and wrist. Make sure your wrist is limber/flexible and that your elbow isn't going wild off in left field, so to speak.

Thanks,

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: nan
Date: 10 May 99 - 12:59 PM

Hi, Rosin does tend to build-up. When it does I put a little bit of rubbing alcohol on a soft cloth and wipe the strings off. DONT let the alcohol touch your fiddle though!

Roson should be helping it to "grab" the strings and I read some good advice here that addresses that. Good luck!

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From:
Date: 10 May 99 - 01:22 PM

O.K., I'll have to add my two cents worth. You need a lot to rosin. Yes it does build up on the strings. For over 40 years now I have cleaned it off the strings with a dime. Just rub it gentley over each string. You then get to clean it off the violin. If you leaave it on there for a long time it will damanage the finish. Any music store will sell you a poish that will take the excess off and polish it also. Here's story to top all rosin stories. A friend brought her violin to me and said it would not play. I took it home and tried it, she was right it did not play. Dig out the rosin, rosin the bow. That should have solved it all but it didn't play. I tried the bow on my violin (just a little ( thank goodness) no sound. The instrumnent repair man came to the high school and I talked to him he took it to the store. The piece of stuff I thought was rosin was a high class bar of furniture polish! What a mess, new strings , new hair $60 dollar epair job. Dumb mistake! bet

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: reggie miles
Date: 11 May 99 - 11:32 AM

I've been playin' a lot on my razor sharp hand-tool and I have found that more is better and too much is not enough. Sometimes it causes all the bow hairs to stick together, especially during warm weather, but all I do is scrape the bow across the edge of the blade and viola!(That's a French word which means everything is ok now.) As to the comments regarding how rosin adversely affects the finish of a violin I'd like to impart this tale. After purchasing an old German violin at a junk store in New Orleans I brought it to a local repairman. I had heard he was a bit eccentric but a fine craftsman. The instrument had a great deal of build up of old rosin under the strings on the body, it was black. After I got it back from the shop all the rosin build up was gone. I was surprised because previously I had tried to remove it with no success. I asked the repairman how he did it but he would not reveal his secret. Spooky huh? Reggie

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 May 99 - 01:41 PM

Reggie: didn't Scully and Mulder look into that, yet? Or did we lose them in the deap, dark recesses of the repairman's shop? Do-do-do-do (I know it's Twilight Zone, but the X-files theme isn't as easy to do: da-da-da-dum-ta-dum-dum)!

katlaughing, who still thinks you can never have too much rosin and who wonders why her sister, bet, never shared the dime secret with her before this!**BG**

Subject: RE: Rosin - too much or too little?
From: deadparrot
Date: 11 May 99 - 07:16 PM

I never used to clean the rosin off because I liked the look of it, more like a fiddle, less like a violin, I thought. Now 20 years later my daughter tells me that cleaning off the rosin will leave the fiddle sounding sweet and mellow - I tried this and the difference astonished me. However I still subscribe to the "rub it in till you start sneezing" school. Can't wait to try the rosin on the flat pick tip - it's always falling inside the guitar, especially in the winter