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Tune origins: The worms crawl in...

DigiTrad:
EAT WORMS
GLOW LI'L GLOW-WORM
LAIDLEY WORM
THE LAIDLEY WORM.
THE LAMBTON WORM
THE THOUSAND LEGGED WORM
THE WORMS CRAWL IN
WHEN THE ICE WORMS NEST AGAIN
WORMS UP MY NOSE


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Lair of the White Worm (26)
Lyr Req: Worms (Eat Some Worms) (52)
Lyr Req: a worm song (48)
Lyr Req: The worms crawl in... (53)
Info needed on: Worms of the Earth (Bob Esty) (4)
(origins) Origin: Lambton Worm (52)
Lyr Req: Give Me Your Hand / Tabhair Dom do Lamh (20)
Lyr Req: Hats off when a hearse goes passing by (12)
Lyr Add: The Laidley Worm of Spindleston-Heugh (10)
Lyr Req: Worm Song (from Nina & Frederik) (17)
Lyr/Chords Req: Thousand-Legged Worm^^^ (2)
Seona McDowell: Worm song? (5)


Marc Bernier 04 Jan 08 - 10:22 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 Jan 08 - 12:46 PM
Marc Bernier 04 Jan 08 - 12:53 PM
Jim Carroll 04 Jan 08 - 03:02 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 04 Jan 08 - 03:59 PM
Irish sergeant 04 Jan 08 - 04:39 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 Jan 08 - 08:23 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 Jan 08 - 09:14 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 Jan 08 - 09:21 PM
Marc Bernier 04 Jan 08 - 10:36 PM
Jim Krause 04 Jan 08 - 10:49 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 Jan 08 - 11:26 PM
Goose Gander 05 Jan 08 - 01:19 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Jan 08 - 03:19 AM
Dave Hunt 05 Jan 08 - 12:52 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Jan 08 - 01:42 PM
Marc Bernier 05 Jan 08 - 10:02 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Jan 08 - 11:27 PM
Marc Bernier 06 Jan 08 - 10:54 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 Jan 08 - 01:04 PM
Jack Campin 06 Jan 08 - 01:51 PM
Marc Bernier 20 Jan 08 - 01:32 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Jan 08 - 01:44 PM
Marc Bernier 21 Jan 08 - 08:15 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Jan 08 - 12:26 PM
GUEST,David Cockerham 11 Mar 08 - 05:03 PM
GUEST,Gadaffi 13 Mar 08 - 07:54 AM
GUEST,Em 03 Jun 08 - 11:10 AM
GUEST,laureen 27 Jun 08 - 06:40 PM
GUEST 08 Feb 09 - 06:33 PM
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Subject: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 10:22 AM

This has probably been covered in another thread, but I'v been reading other threads for 2 hours this morning and can't find anything. Does anyone here know anything about the tune we sing the Hearse song to here in the U.S.? Someone on another thread compares it to The Funeral for a Marionette, which is the theme music to Alfred Hitchcock presents, which is not the same tune. If one plays the mudcat midi, there is a b part we don't sing, leading me to believe the tune existed and was popular somewhere, then some clever child hundreds of years ago coupled it with the song. Any Ideas?

Thank you
Marc Bernier


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 12:46 PM

Fuld (The Book of World-Famous Music, pp. 657-658) wrote, "...a generally similar melody in the major, without words, appears under the title "Rogues' March" in E. A. Dolph, "Sound Off" ... 1929, p. 72. While no earlier printing of the Rogues' March has been found, the tune appears under this title in several early undated American musical manuscript books, e. g., "Enoch Peirce's Book, Newburyport," circa 1800, at page 113; Irving Lowens, Baltimore."
   "A somewhat closer approximation to the above-quoted melody, but in the major and without words, was under the title "Army Duff" in "A Musical Switch," Humoresque, adapted and arranged by Kenneth J. Alford for military band parts, a set of which was deposited at BM [British Museum] on April 20, 1921,.... "A Musical Switch" is a medley of 44 familiar tunes, "Army Duff" appearing on p. 6.... of the score.
'Duff' is the pudding, and is applied to a slow, heavy tune, according to an ex-British Army musician, W. D. Trigg.

"Almost the same melody, also in the major and without words, appears as "The Elephant Walk," arranged for children and published in 1948 by J. J. Robbins & Sons, Inc., New York..."
...
   "As "The Worms Crawl In," the song seems to have become popular during World War 1- as the hearse rolled by on the battlefield, one soldier told another...; in the third stanza or so, the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out..." "Its first known printing in this form, and in the minor and with words, was Annetta Eldridge and Ruth E. Richardson, "Stunt Songs for Social Sings" (Denver, CO. and Franklin, OH), p. 25, under the title "Hearse Song;" this booklet was first published Nov. 14, 1923..." [Later appeared in Sandburg, 1927, p. 444].

Thus, possibly a military drum or marching tune which acquired words.
I have not found any information that adds anything significantly to Fuld's exposition.


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 12:53 PM

Thank you Q


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 03:02 PM

Don't know the name of the tune (if it has one), but I always associate it with Laurel and Hardy era theme music.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 03:59 PM

Unofficial word has it that the piece was composed by an undertaker with a sense of black humor after a disinterment at behest of the local court and constabulary.


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 04:39 PM

I had heard the tune was also sung during the Civil War. But With no documentation, I take that as specious. The Rogue's MArch was played by musiciians when someone was drummed out of the army the lyrics go something like this:
"Poor old Soldier! poor old soldier! He got flogged because he would not soldier!" Hope this helps or is at least vaguely interesting. Neil


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 08:23 PM

Irish Sergeant- I would imagine that in the military there were a number of verses sung to the tune. It would be interesting to collect those that are still in the memory of the living.

Dolph (reference above) gives words to one "Rogues' March" verse:
    Poor old soldier,
    Poor old soldier,
    He'll be tarred and feathered and sent to hell,
    Because he wouldn't soldier well.
Separately, the score for the "Hearse Song" is given, no lyrics.

From the 65th Regiment song book:
    Tuppence I got for selling my cloak,
    Tuppence for selling me blanket.
    If ever I 'list for a soldier again,
    Devil shall be me sergeant.

    Poor old soldier, poor old soldier,
    If ever i 'list for a soldier again,
    Devil shall be me sergeant.
The site had a longer version, with the chorus:
    Poor old soldier, poor old soldier,
    If I knew then what I know now,
    I wouldn't have been so barmy.
Rogues
The text of the longer version is eaier to read at Robokopp: Poor Old Soldier The Rogues March

American Memory has a song sheet, "A New Arsecotcia Song; Composed by Old Betty Grey," to the tune "Rogues March." No date, but possibly near the War of 1812.


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 09:14 PM

A score for "Rogue's March," 4/4, with the notes "Manuscript in the Thomas Collection, transcription by Mary Jane Corry, corrections by Mary Van Deusen."
"ROGUES MARCH Appears in: "The Compleat Tutor for the Fife, 1756." "Early American Secular Music and its European Sources 1599-1839."
Rogues March
A midi is given which is not the one commonly heard; the dittys probably used several simple tunes.

A different score for "Rogues' March, from "The English Duty," 1780, is given at a fife drum website: Rogues March
For fife, played: AA BB, "Entire New and Compleat Instructions for the Fife, 1780, Longman & Broderip: London.
Also at that site, for the Drum: "Young Drummers Assistant," 1780.

A note at the site: "Beat while "drumming" an undesirable out of camp. The actual ceremony consisted of the musicians parading the prisoner along the front of the regimental formation and then to the gate or entrance of the camp. At the entrance he would be sent on his way by a kick from the youngest drummer, with instructions never to return to the vicinity."

Hear the fifes play the 'drumming out," or "Rogues March," played on the Yorkshire Corps of Drums site: Rogues March
A Note says the tune was used to drum out dishonoured soldiers from the Army, "during the playing they were stripped of rank, badges and buttons, then ... flogged... and marched out of the camp with dishonour."

Stories of The American Revolution tell of the "Rogues' March" being used as the musical accompaniment of the parade and punishment of Loyalists who disobeyed the "Committee of Inspection."

Are these tunes and lyrics related? I think that there is a confluence of material from two or more sources.


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 09:21 PM

Oops! Scroll down on the first site.
Click on the shield symbol which will appear on the reduced scores near the bottom and they will enlarge to readable size!


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 10:36 PM

This is all very interesting, and I do appreciate the information. I'v been playing fife for over 30 years, and I'v never heard anyone play the tune that mudcat midi plays for the hearse song. Am I to understand that it is this forums belief, that the tune that we sing "the worms crawl in..." is a variant of The Rogues March out of an actual camp duty? Now I'm really curious, this is becomeing fun.


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Jim Krause
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 10:49 PM

I've been sitting here humming "The Worms Crawl In" and "The Rogue's March" to myself as I read this thread, and I can't here any relationship at all. I've been playing fife for eight years, and drum for two or three, and am fairly conversant with the Camp Duties, being a recovering re-enactor, as well.


Jim Krause


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jan 08 - 11:26 PM

As I said, I think more than one rat is in the woodpile. The old "Rogues' March" tunes, at least those I've found so far, don't match the tune for "The Worms..."
We have yet to find tunes for "Army Duff."
"Elephant's Walk" is late, but I haven't found it either.

The earliest score I have found is "The Hearse Song," from "Songs My Mother Never Taught Me," J. J. Niles, D. S. Moore and A. A. Wallgren, 1929, The Macaulay Co. Reproduced in Lomax, p. 556-557, American Ballads and Folk Songs, 1934, with score. "The bugs crawl in..." is in the 4th verse. A WWI age was suggested by Lomax.


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Goose Gander
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 01:19 AM

I remember hearing this as a child, but I don't recall anything beyond the basic melody and the phrase, "The worms crawl in and the worms crawl out." I was surprised to hear it on the Pogues 3rd LP . . . .


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 03:19 AM

I assume the 'worms' I was referring to is the one we're discussing as the ones coming up don't scan with the one I know

If ever you see a hearse go by,
Remember some day you're gonna die.

Yo-ho, yo-ho, yo-ho, yo-ho,
Where will you be in a hundred years from now.

They wrap you up in a lily-white sheet,
And tuck in the corners nice and neat
etc.

The worms crawl in and the worms crawl out,
They go in thin and they come out stout.

Your teeth fall in and your eyes fall out,
Your brains come trickling down your snout.

Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Dave Hunt
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 12:52 PM

A few more - from the singing of my old friend and performance partner, the late Vic Baker (Prof.Wingnut) We even used to do a modiifeid version of this song for kids - who LOVED it!!of course.
Dave Hunt (Dr. Sunshine)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They dress you up in a long white shirt
And over your coffin they shovel the dirt

They shovel in dirt, they throw in rocks
They do their best to break your box

Your bones go yellow, your skin is green
Your pus is thick with gangerene (Always hated that one!)

chorus
Oh-oh-oh-oh
Where shall we be in a hundred years from now

I think there were some more but me old memory isn't........


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Subject: ADD Version: The Hearse Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 01:42 PM

THE HEARSE SONG
Niles, Moore, Wallgren, © 1929

Did you ever think as the hearse rolls by
That the next trip they take they'll be layin' you by,
With your boots a-swingin' from the back of a roan
And the undertaker inscribin' your stone'?

When the old motor hearse goes rollin' by,
You don't know whether to laugh or cry.
For the grave diggers may get you too,
Then the hearse's next load may consist of you.

They'll take you over to Field Thirteen,*
Where the sun is shinin' and the grass is green,
And they'll throw in dirt and they'll throw in rocks,
And they don't give a damn if they break your pine box.

Oh, the bugs crawl in and the bugs crawl out,
They do right dress and they turn about,
Then each one takes a bite or two,
Out of what the war office used to call you.

Oh, your eyes drop out and your teeth fall in,
And the worms crawl over your mouth and chin,
They invite their friends and their friends' friends too,
And you're chewed all to hell when they're through with you.

* The cemetary of the Aviation Corps.
From "Songs My Mother Never Taught Me," John J. "Jack" Niles, Douglas S. "Doug" Moore, and A. A. "Wally" Wallgren, published abd copyright 1929 by The Macaulay Company.
Reproduced, with score, in Lomax and Lomax, 1934, "American Ballads and Folk Songs, pp. 556-557, The Macmillan Company.

Compare tune with "Old Woman All Skin and Bones," No. 142, Brown, North Carolina Folklore, vol. 5, The Music of the Folk Songs," 1962, p. 111-112, three variant tunes given.


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 10:02 PM

Wow, Your good Q. Are you a librarian or archivist, or do you have a nack and abit of time on your hands? Thanks again for your research efforts.

Marc Bernier


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jan 08 - 11:27 PM

A small library of mainly folk.


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 10:54 AM

Ok. I'v managed to check a few of the sources cited, I'v even found a copy of sheet music Kenneth Alfords, Musical Switch. They all include variations on the A part, which I'm familiar with, as that's the part we sing. It's the B strain that I'v heard here for the first time here, that has got my couriosity going. I just bought a copy of the first mentioned Sound Off, when that is delivered I'll take a look at the text. Would anyone know what the source of the mudcat midi is? Joe, Max?

Thank again
Marc Bernier


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 01:04 PM

Thanks, Marc. You found the music of Musical Switch and I looked for a cd and found it. A cd of Kenneth Alford's marches including Musical Switch (about 10 minutes) is available for ca. $9. from Amazon com or ca.
It includes "Army of the Nile" and "The Mad Major," the latter I have wanted for some time


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Jan 08 - 01:51 PM

I've heard it sung to the tune of "Off She Goes", which is a variant of a Scottish tune from about 1700 best known as "Hit Her On The Bum" - interesting coincidence with the expelling-someone-from-the-camp usage.


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 01:32 PM

Well, I have just recieved my new/used copy of Sound Off. Which was mentioned by Q in the 2nd posting. Once again it is just the A strain. I'm still curious about the B strain. How do I go about finding out the source for the mudcat midi?


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 01:44 PM

I have just listened to "A Musical Switch," the fantasia by Kenneth Alford. It does not contain the strains of "The worms crawl in, ..." (see post above a ways).

"The Music of Kenneth Alford, including the complete marches," The Band of H. M. Royal Marines, Chandos Collect cd, CHAN 6584. Re-issued 2006 by Chandos Records Ltd.


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:15 AM

Is there someone in the Mudcat organisation I could contact that would know the source of our midi?


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:26 PM

PM Joe Offer


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: GUEST,David Cockerham
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 05:03 PM

The "Hearse Song" has been one that I have been trying to find the words to for some time. My aunt who was English with a fine sense of humour told me some words when I was a boy. She said it was sung to the tune of the old Laurel and Hardy theme song. I don't know if Laurel and Hardy intended it to be their theme but it might be.

The words are: (with a Cockney accent of course)
Did ya ever watch the 'earse go by and
think that someday youre gonna die
They put ya in a wooden box
and cover ya up with dirt and rocks.

The worms go in
the worms go out
they crawl in your ear
and come out your snout

I do not know the other stanzas but assume there must be many. It is also interesting to compare this snatch with the song by Niles, Moore and Walgren of 1929. My aunt would have been just married and immigrated to Canada about this time. Is this a folk ditty from England which transmutated into a song by Niles et. al. or is it someones faulty memory reciting a snippet of something remembered?


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: GUEST,Gadaffi
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 07:54 AM

I've just seen Dave Hunt's entry, re- 'Where Shall We Be In a Hundred Years from Now?'
I recall this song from days at The Old Crown FC in Birmingham in the 1970s. I think the singer was Stewart Jones who certainly had the loudest voice I've ever heard. I sang it too with what words I could remember from him, adding a few verses I found from a book (can't remember which one).

No idea about the tune, but the chorus certainly had elements reminiscent of the 'Death March from Saul' (if that's the one usually played at state funerals and the like).


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: GUEST,Em
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 11:10 AM

Hi. My gramps used to sing this to me and my sister as children!
Do you ever think when you go to sleep,
They wrap you up in a big white sheet,
The worms go in,
The worms go out,
They crawl in thin and they crawl out stout,
They bring their friends and their friends too,
and make a horrible mess of you!
I've wondered where it originated from.


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: GUEST,laureen
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 06:40 PM

Did you ever think when the hearse went by
That you may be the next to die
They wrap you up in a thin white sheet
And bury you about 10 feet deep.
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out
They play pinnucle on your snout
They eat your eyes
they eat your snout
They eat the jam between your toes.


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Subject: RE: Tune origins: The worms crawl in...
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 06:33 PM

Q reports that the Fantasia does not contain "The Worms Crawl in." True, but there are two musical switches on that Naxos CD -- the "Fantasia" aka "Lightning Switch" (I think) on track 16, that does not, and the "Humoresque" on track 18 -- and that one does have it.

It's only a short quotation, about 40% of the way through, after the first quotation from "Peer Gynt" and before "Three Blind Mice."

Unfortunately, the content list with the CD lists both tracks as "Fantasia."


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