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Folklore: Leadbelly: Should we sing his songs?

Goose Gander 10 Jan 08 - 02:18 PM
John MacKenzie 10 Jan 08 - 02:20 PM
Goose Gander 10 Jan 08 - 02:39 PM
catspaw49 10 Jan 08 - 02:51 PM
John MacKenzie 10 Jan 08 - 02:55 PM
Bert 10 Jan 08 - 03:11 PM
Murray MacLeod 10 Jan 08 - 03:44 PM
John MacKenzie 10 Jan 08 - 04:07 PM
catspaw49 10 Jan 08 - 04:21 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Non-Ironic Apprentice 10 Jan 08 - 04:22 PM
John MacKenzie 10 Jan 08 - 04:23 PM
catspaw49 10 Jan 08 - 04:28 PM
Amos 10 Jan 08 - 04:40 PM
PoppaGator 10 Jan 08 - 04:44 PM
Don Firth 10 Jan 08 - 05:16 PM
John MacKenzie 10 Jan 08 - 05:21 PM
Art Thieme 10 Jan 08 - 05:30 PM
Murray MacLeod 10 Jan 08 - 05:39 PM
John MacKenzie 10 Jan 08 - 05:50 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 Jan 08 - 05:56 PM
Leadfingers 10 Jan 08 - 07:17 PM
Brendy 10 Jan 08 - 07:32 PM
Charley Noble 10 Jan 08 - 08:59 PM
Stringsinger 10 Jan 08 - 09:14 PM
GUEST,reggie miles 11 Jan 08 - 12:52 AM
Murray MacLeod 11 Jan 08 - 03:26 AM
GUEST,PMB 11 Jan 08 - 03:34 AM
Leadfingers 11 Jan 08 - 04:36 AM
Joe Offer 11 Jan 08 - 04:36 AM
GUEST,GUEST.PMB 11 Jan 08 - 04:38 AM
GUEST,Moral Majority 11 Jan 08 - 06:18 AM
GUEST,PMB 11 Jan 08 - 06:38 AM
Sandy Mc Lean 11 Jan 08 - 07:45 AM
Sandy Mc Lean 11 Jan 08 - 08:02 AM
John MacKenzie 11 Jan 08 - 08:03 AM
Murray MacLeod 11 Jan 08 - 09:03 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 11 Jan 08 - 10:10 AM
PoppaGator 11 Jan 08 - 10:42 AM
Leadbelly 11 Jan 08 - 11:03 AM
Roger the Skiffler 11 Jan 08 - 11:33 AM
GUEST,An Underground of Mole Catcher's Apprentice 11 Jan 08 - 11:42 AM
reggie miles 11 Jan 08 - 02:07 PM
reggie miles 11 Jan 08 - 02:51 PM
reggie miles 11 Jan 08 - 02:52 PM
Art Thieme 11 Jan 08 - 05:34 PM
GUEST,Moral majority 12 Jan 08 - 04:25 AM
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Subject: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 02:18 PM

He was after all a murderer, with a long history of violent assaults and stints in prison. A womanizer, too. To my knowledge, he never disavowed his anti-social past. Are we justifying his actions by performing and recording his material?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 02:20 PM

Aw fer f**ks sake, what next. Give it a rest please.
Why are people always trying to rewrite history.
It happened, get over it!!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 02:39 PM

My post was thoroughly tongue-in-cheek . . . which I thought would be obvious, but perhaps not.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 02:51 PM

Sorry Man......Sounded all too much like the real thing which is scary. I mean its scary because such assholes exist and pump out that crap for real.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 02:55 PM

Should have been listed as BS then shouldn't it?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Bert
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 03:11 PM

Well "I" thought it was funny!!!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 03:44 PM

it seems obvious to me that Michael Morris is being ironic, following on from the Amazing Grace thread ...

I am surprised at you Giok, you are usually able to spot stuff like that, Spaw on the other hand suffers from the ravages of advancing years as well as being American, so he has all the excuses ...


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 04:07 PM

Well Murray, I never opened the Amazing Grace thread, because the title made me spit. So I never tied the name of the person who started this phoney thread as being the one who obviously, from what you say, started the other phoney thread.
I never found The Office funny either, so that may explain my failure to grasp that this was an attempt at irony.
G :)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 04:21 PM

Plus, some of us have been busy on the Pancho and Lefty thread. And then there's the prudish twit factor; we seem to have acquired quite a few of them in the past year or so. Now I truly admire the dry and droll British wit, but those folks have no tolerance at all for the broad American dozens style and will be incensed when I tell you to go buttfuck a warthog Murray.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Non-Ironic Apprentice
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 04:22 PM

seems obvious to to me that Michael Morris is deliberately winding folk up, and I'm not being ironic *LOL*


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 04:23 PM

Can I have the popcorn concession Spaw?

G


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 04:28 PM

That's up to either Murray or the warthog......probably the warthog.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 04:40 PM


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 04:44 PM

I immediately appreciated the irony. This is perhaps the best of all comments regarding the "Amazing Grace" thread, even though it does not appear in that thread.

Would it make any difference if the questions asked only whether we should refrain from singing Leadbelly-written hymns (if any)?

I think it would still appear to be a ridiculous question, and still strongly undermine the sentiment that prompted the creation of that earlier discussion.

Nuff said?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:16 PM

I got it right away.

But what concernes me deeply is this:   should young, aspiring operatic tenors sing any of the things that Luciano Pavarotti sang? After all, Pavarotti was quite overweight, and we don't want to encourage obesity and poor eating habits, now do we!??

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:21 PM

What about the pollution caused by the Boston Tea Party, and wasn't it an insult to Native Americans, dressing up as them?
And the poor people in India Ceylon or Assam, who sweated and toiled for slavery wages to pick the tea, and those inconsiderate people dissed all their efforts.
G


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:30 PM

The real question here is "What brand of condom did Leadbelly prefer?!" and/or: If he didn't use one, why the hell not!?

How thoroughly irresponsible of the man!?

Art


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:39 PM

Spaw, when you have experienced puberty and adolescence amidst hordes of crofters' daughters on the West Coast of Scotland, warthogs hold no terror (or surprise )and since I am not into the whole déja vu thing, I have to decline your thoughtful invitation ...


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:50 PM

hordes??


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 05:56 PM

I got it (who wouldn't) but my response is still like John (Giok). Fergit it already! Enough trash in that other bullshit thread (and this crap is found ad nauseum in other threads as well).


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 07:17 PM

There is SO much Crap posted these days that it does get difficult to see a 'possible' tongue in a cheek !
MY first response was definately akin to Giok's !
Please remember that we do NOT have the advantage of Facial Expression , OR Body Language on a 'Puter screen , AND what is hilariously funny to YOU may appear as offensive to some one from outside your patch !!
Not that I have ever actually sung any of Leadbelly's stuff myself - and believe that IF you like !


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: Brendy
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 07:32 PM

Next....

B.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 08:59 PM

These ironic threads are giving me a headache. Cheek in tongue, tongue in cheek! Whatever are we to expect next? All I ask is that people pose sensible questions about folk songs, striving to increase their pathetic understanding of what a "folk song" is or aint. But no! Someone has to start a thread like this - absolute drivel.

Charley Noble, irate


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 09:14 PM

This is not funny. LeadBelly was a great folksinger who had to endure hardships in his
life including the embarrasing early time that Alan Lomax made him wear prison stripes in concert. He was a kind man, gentle with children, sensitive to performers such as one of his favorites, Richard Dyer-Bennett, played with Josh White, and set a high standard for folk performers with his unique 12 string guitar.

Pete Seeger once told me that he would give up playing five-string banjo altogether if
he could play the 12 string like Leadbelly.

This post is peculiar because it appears to be denegrating but comes off as sounding
weird. This kind of humor if you can call it that seems snide and kinda' warped.

That's my opinion, anyhow.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 12:52 AM

Threads like this, should we read them and then post replies to them?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 03:26 AM

I am sure Michael Morris is well able to speak for himself, but albeit the thread is thoroughly tongue in cheek I do not think he is attempting to be "humorous" in the slightest, he is simply making a wry observation, in the wake of the Amazing Grace thread.

If you haven't read the Amazing Grace thread then you have no way of knowing what he is trying to say, and for that reason, Michael, it would in fact have been much more appropriate for you to have posted your opening post on the Amazing Grace thread, where it would have been seen (and appreciated ) in context, rather than starting a new thread where it is bound to be misunderstood by the literal- minded, if not now then further down the line.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 03:34 AM

I felt like starting a thread:

Leadfingers: should we listen to his songs?.

But the answer is obvious so I didn't ;)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 04:36 AM

And why should anonymous guests (even WITH a name that can be borrowed by anyone else) make inflammatory comments ?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 04:36 AM

Well, I gotta say, there are times I think it's impossible for me to sing Leadbelly songs credibly. Yes, I sing a number of Leadbelly songs, but only after they have been folk-processed through somebody like Pete Seeger.
I'd really like to be able to sing "Bourgeois Town," for example - but I just can't get it to work for me.

Yes, we should sing Leadbelly songs - but only if we can do them credibly. I don't think we should even try to match his style, though. I've never heard anybody do that. He was one of a kind.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: GUEST,GUEST.PMB
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 04:38 AM

Its SO easy to borrow a guest name
    Yes, but not allowed.
    Take that as a warning. It's better to stay logged in. We have a low tolerance for those who assume the identity of others.
    PMB, on the other hand, is using a consistent identity.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: GUEST,Moral Majority
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 06:18 AM

Actualy I find it rather strange how such an assertion is so quickly dismissed by you all would you listen to and perform songs by Adolf Hitler or Binladen if they had written such things even if they were catchy. Leadbelly even fell out with John Lomax after threatening him with a knife so I do find it a bit strange that all of you accept that Michael Morris's original thread could be dismissed as simply a joke. Surely there is a an issue here. Where do we draw the line on these things?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 06:38 AM

Sorry to Leadfingers, no hurt intended. I said the answer was obvious- I meant of course that we SHOULD sing his songs. And tap our feet to his tunes. I've only met him a couple of times (when we drank most of Emma's whisky...) but he is truly excellent.

As for guest guest, you can call yourself what you like, but if you take on my identity I'd like you to take on my debts and troubles too.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 07:45 AM

I don't adhere to strong Christian beliefs but "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" teaches a very powerful lesson. I think that Leadbelly was able to rise above adversity with Lomax's help. History perhaps should judge them more by their accomplishments than by their shortcomings.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 08:02 AM

A crofters daughter:             :-}

http://mtsix.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/sheep.jpg


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 08:03 AM

Oh yesssssssssssssssss Sandy, I like that one roflmao.
G


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 09:03 AM

that is funny, Sandy, I left myself wide open for that ...


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 10:10 AM

This thread and the other about Amazing Grace are very interesting.

The songs no longer belong to Lead Belly or Newton - the song belongs to the sinner. These songs now belong to the "folk" and they have been interpreted and utilized for various purposes and do not reflect the actions or even the views of the original writer anymore.   You can use a shovel to dig a hole to plant a tree, or you can use a shovel to wack someone over the head - how the tool is used depends on the individual holding it. The tool is not the weapon.

It is hard for many people to separate the music of Wagner from the images of Hitler. I can respect those that do not wish to listen, but I do not have any disregard for lovers or performers of Wagner's music either - if their intention is not to spread hate. The Nazi's took the ancient swaztika symbol and corrupted it's meaning to the point where modern usage negates the original intent.

It is one thing to have a moral compass, but a compass only gives direction - it does not map out a road to travel.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 10:42 AM

Irony upon irony ~ I love that so many have seen fit to comment upon how this discussion should never have been started, nor continued. Of course, these very comments perpetuate the thread and bring us ever closer to the moment when one of us who is so inclined can gleefully interject "100!"

Leadbelly was no saint. Like him or not, it would be hard to deny the objective facts that he was, at times at least, a very nasty and violent man, while at other times he was able to project the image of an utterly lovable character. A bit of a con man, in other words.

He was also, of course, a consummate artist ~ which is a morally neutral description of a human soul.

Flawed, talented, and the source of at least one song we all remember long after his demise. Not unlike a certain Mr. Newton.

Few, if any, among us would suggest that anyone refrain from singing a Leadbelly song on the basis of the composer's moral failings. On the other hand, the argument that Newton's classic hymn might be boycotted received serious consideration.

Brilliant posting by Michael Morris.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs
From: Leadbelly
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 11:03 AM

What a poor level of discussion...


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 11:33 AM

If I excluded Leadbelly songs that would be half of what I laughingly call my repertoire gone! Mind you, folk think my singing is a greater crime than any committed by Leadbelly...

RtS


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: GUEST,An Underground of Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 11:42 AM

*hordes??*

that is the correct term...as in:

a flock of sparrows

A horde of crofters daughters


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: reggie miles
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 02:07 PM

Joe, I've always thought that Spider John Koerner did as good a job as anyone I've ever heard in adopting Leadbelly's very unique playing approach.

Reg


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: reggie miles
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 02:51 PM

You're correct Ron, the tool is not the weapon. The individual weilding it decides its use. The art is not the intent. The reasons why we make our choices and the outcome are up for interpretation and that's where things can get dicey. It's easy enough for folks to misunderstand the intent of many things. Take this thread for example. We take our chances with every decision we make and every artistic endeavor we embark upon that our intentions will be understood by others and that our actions won't bring about unintended results. It's often a fine line. There's really no way that we can be certain of how are choices and creative efforts will ultimately affect others or what the outcome might be.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: reggie miles
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 02:52 PM

BTW I am GUEST, reggie miles


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 05:34 PM

Once again, I must say that I resurrected the visage of the "infamous condom thread" ONLY to point out and highlight the completely obvious fact (to me anyhow) that threads like the condom thread and this one ought to have no place at all here at Mudcat. That was my motive when I started that condom thread all those years ago--ten I think---and it is still my motive now. Yes, my tongue was and is firmly wedged into my cheek.

I do realize that if ya don't have a sense of humor, it isn't funny.

Mudcatters who are new or too young to recall the old thread are excluded from my criticism.

Art


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: GUEST,Moral majority
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 04:25 AM

"Subject: RE: Folklore: Lead Belly: Should we sing his songs?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 11:33 AM

If I excluded Leadbelly songs that would be half of what I laughingly call my repertoire gone! Mind you, folk think my singing is a greater crime than any committed by Leadbelly...

RtS".............

If I excluded nazi songs that would be half of what I laughingly call my repertoire gone! Mind you, folk think my singing is a greater crime than any committed by Hitler...


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