MacPherson [how to pronounce?]

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Snuffy
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 01:08 PM

A good example of dropping excess consonants is the Warwickshire town of Coleshill - pronounced Kozle

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:32 AM

Then there's Kirkcudbright pronounced Kirkoobry, Avoch pronounced Och, and Anstruther pronounced Ainster.
G ¦¬]

Subject: RE:  [how to pronounce?]
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:18 AM

To quote a good friend of mine. "There is no Fear in MacPherson."

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 02:26 AM

poppagator, there's a village called Kibworth Beauchamp also in Leicestershire and also pronounced Beecham.

Subject: Lyr Add: DON'T CALL WAGGA WAGGA WAGGA (G. Ghampion
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 01:19 AM

this is the perfect place to bring in my favourite Australian placename.

Goonoo Goonoo in the New England area, Rowan's part of Oz - in Australian Aboriginal languages plurals were created by repeating the word - and this one is now pronounced Gunny Goonoo! It probably wasn't originally, but words change over the years/centuries, especially when used by speakers of another language.

more on Doubled up place names including the words to Greg Ghampion's song "Don't call Wagga Wagga Wagga"

sandra

and keeping this a musical thread, here's Greg's song -

Don't Call Wagga Wagga Wagga

© Greg Champion/Jim Haynes
(Warner/Chappel Music Australia)

This version first released on the album 'Stand Back Australia'.


Now once I met Ted Egan legend bushman that he is
a lotta folks they know their Outback well, and Ted he sure knows his
he knows those towns with funny names, the ones that make you laugh
and when it comes to the double names, he says "ya don't do things by
half", and

Chorus 1
Ya don't call Kurri Kurri Kurri
and ya don't call Gin Gin Gin
ya don't call Mooney Mooney Mooney
and ya don't call Kin Kin Kin
ya never call Pindi Pindi Pindi
and ya don't call Grong Grong Grong
and ya don't call Wagga Wagga Wagga no sir
callin' Wagga Wagga Wagga is wrong

It's Lang Lang and it's Ki Ki Wangi Wangi and Woy Woy
and if ya call Tumbi Umbi Tumbi, well that proves you're a silly boy
Cocklebiddy isn't Cockle, Duckinwilla isn't Duck
Burpengary isn't Burpen, Muckadilla isn't Muck
Uranquinty isn't Uran, and Petrie isn't Pee
you'd look pretty silly callin' Liili Pilli Lilli and Wee Waa isn't Wee, and

Chorus 2
Ya don't call Walla Walla Walla
and ya don't call Curl Curl Curl
ya don't call Mitta Mitta Mitta
and ya don't call Wool Wool Wool
ya never call Pura Pura Pura
and ya don't call Bong Bong Bong
and ya don't call Wagga Wagga Wagga no sir
callin' Wagga Wagga Wagga is wrong

It's Terrigal not Terry, and Stanthorpe isn't Stan
Peterborough isn't Peter, Dandaragan isn't Dan
Kenebri's not Kenny, Jackadgery isn't Jack
never ever call Jimboomba Jim and Macksville isn't Mack
so now you'll all remember Ted Egan's good advice
some words are so fair dinkum that you have to use 'em twice, and...

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Tyke
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 07:08 AM

interesting

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 10:04 AM

That's interesting about dropping the first r in Shrewsbury. I think there can be too many consonants in a word and people start dropping them, no matter what the spelling calls for.

Another case would be Blytheville (Arkansas) which rhymes with Bible.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 08:49 AM

Looked at your list, m'Gra, for one of the places I used to live - Shrewsbury. There was a survey done in the local paper, the Shropshire Star, while I was there, on how to pronounce it. Turns out most locals don't even pronounce the first r, so it comes out as:
SHOOSBRIE (not SHOWSBRIE).
BTW there's a place up here called HarLAW (emphasis on 2nd syllable, as also in DunBAR, DunLOP, etc)And I once heard a newsreader refer to Ban-CHORy (as it's spelt) but it's BANc'ree.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Bee
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 08:57 AM

CBC National announcers have been taught to pronounce French place names as the French (or at least, the Quebecois) would pronounce them. It is a source of amusement to us, here in the Maritimes, when we hear them gamely trying to pronounce names like 'Musquodoboit' and 'Quispamsis' as if they were French. Musquodoboit, and I think Quispamsis as well, are Mi'qMa'q names, and Musquodoboit is pronounced locally as 'Musk-a-dob-et' - certainly not 'Muska-da-bwah'.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 08:20 AM

Cornish village of Mousehole pronounced Mowzel. And of more relevance to folkies, as some editors have failed to spot, the Hazebro round whose light Sam Larner was a-fishing is actually the Norfolk village of Happisburg.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: PoppaGator
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 02:05 PM

How 'bout Beauchamp, variously pronounced "BEECH-um" or "BO-sham," etc.?

There's an old Creole family in New Orleans named Bagneris. Vernel, a musical-theatre personality whose play "One More Time" made it to Broadway some years ago, pronounces it "BON-a-REE," which is probably pretty close to the original French pronunciation, I suppose. His relatives who are involved in local politics use a more Anglicized "bag-NAIR-is."

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 12:38 PM

I suspect the Irish Belviors (pronounced Beaver) may have something to do with Belvior Castle in Leicestershire, situated in the Vale of Belvoir (both also pronounced Beaver). The Dukes of Rutland live there - perhaps there's some sort of historical aristocratic connection with the Belvoirs in Ireland?

I drive through the Vale of Belvoir every day on my way to work.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 12:17 PM

Woolisfardisworthy North Devon UK - The Town sign has the addition in brackets - Pronounced woolsey !

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 11:56 AM

And, let us not forget the immortal words of the Monty Python crew during Arthur's assault on the castle during the "Holy Grail" quest. The "French" defender refers to the king and his silly band of....
"KA-NIGGETS!" Then, again, there are words such as psalter, or psalm wherein the "P" is silent, as in swimming.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 03:58 AM

I was at school with a Death pronounced Dee Ath and a Kryswon pronounced Shivawn.

When I first started training as a teacher I worked with a woman whose Polish name was pronounced Shay Devits but was spelled with more 'z's than I have ever seen on a page, and little sign of any vowels. She received an absence note from a parent who had made six attempts to spell it, all crossed out, and finally had substituted Dear Teacher.

And for Monty Python fans, let us not forget: No no no, it's spelled, "Raymond Luxury Yacht," but it's pronounced, "Throat Warbler Mangrove".

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 02:38 AM

Of course then there's the great state of Uh-HI-uh (Ohio) where we too have Lah-fee-et (West Lafayette) and WOO-stir (Wooster)......as well as Vur-SALES (Versailles), LYE-muh (Lima), Bell-FOUNT-un (Bellefontaine), and the list goes on and on........................

The most screwed up one that I can think of anywhere is in Nashville, Tennessee. The below copied from Wiki since its easier to just use their explanation:

Jacques-Timothée Boucher, Sieur de Montbrun, anglicized as Timothy Demonbreun, (b. Montreal, Québec, Canada, 1747, d. Nashville, Tennessee, USA, 1826) was a French-Canadian fur trader, an officer of the American Revolution, Lieutenant-Governor of the Illinois Territory and is known as the "first citizen" of Nashville, Tennessee. Because French orthography was so fluid at the time, and because of widespread variations in English orthography, Demonbreun's name is of some debate. The preferred use today is Timothy Demonbreun, though the first name is sometimes rendered in the French as Timothé, Timothée or Timothe. As for the last name, it derives from the French words for from brown mountain, and is also rendered variously as Demontbrun, de Montbrun, Demontbreun, de Montbreun, De Mont-Breun, and others. Descendants of Demonbreun (it is a very common surname in Middle Tennessee) spell the name with and without the middle "T," as one word or two, with a "U" in place of the "O," with and without the "E," and with an "N" or an "M" at the end. In addition, other variations such as Demumbrine and "Demombrum" also exist. Demonbreun Street in Nashville shows the preferred spelling. The proper local pronunciation is IPA: /dəˈmʌmbriən/, and rhymes with "Northumbrian."

Spaw

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 11:21 PM

PoppaGator, if you heard ar KAN sas, he must have been talking about the river instead of the state. Hard to see how a river could come up in a discussion of football, however.

Uncle Phil, I have a cousin who lives in Lafayette, Indiana. She says Lah fay ETTE.

To go back some, I have found a site which gives the rzh pronunciation for an r in Czech, so the classical music announcers' way of saying Dvorak seems okay. I've been to Spillville, Iowa, a tiny town where Dvorak lived for a while. It is a delightful place. It is so small, that they don't even put it on some maps of the state.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 07:41 PM

My old home state of Louisiana is often pronounced as lou-EASE-e-anna, as if it was named after a chick named Louise. I grew up pronouncing it LOU-zee-anna, since it was actually named for a dude named Louis. We also pronounced the name of Baton Rouge's southern suburb as nawl-lens instead of New-Or-leans like they do on the Tee-Vee news.

Baton Rouge is near Lafayette, Louisiana, pronounced LA-fie-yet if you grew up south of Opelousas or LA-fee-et if you grew up north of Opelousas. Then I went to school in Lafayette County, Mississippi and discovered, to my horror, that they pronounce it luh-FAY-et. I wonder how do they pronounce it in Indiana?
- Phil

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 07:10 PM

So, Murray, maybe my old Latin teacher knew what she was calling herself, after all!:-)

Another one in Massachusetts was Chelmsford pronounced CHUMS-ferd.

In Connecticut it is pronounced BER-lin as opposed to the German berLIN.

I am always a little taken aback when someone hears my last name and asks how it is spelled...I always tell them ell-ay- then the country "France!" Then they get all flustered about how to pronounce it...La Franz or La Frawnz. It's pretty funny sometimes.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 06:28 PM

Here is a List of names in English with non-intuitive pronunciations

A very long list too.

I'd have thought a pretty basic tool of any radio station would be a list of the house style for pronouncing names - especially local place names.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 05:11 PM

or CHOLMONDELEY even ...

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 05:09 PM

ftr, Don, the name is indeed pronounced "CHUMLEY", but the correct spelling is CHOLMDONDELY

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: PoppaGator
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 04:50 PM

Natchitoches, Louisiana: NACK-a-tish

Natchidoches, Texas: nack-a-DOE-chiz

The nearby state of Arkansas is normally pronounced "AR-ken-saw" ~ which is, I believe, the corrupted pronunciation of a French spelling of a Native American word ~ but not long ago, shortly before the Arkansas-LSU football game, I swear I heard LSU football coach Les Miless, on TV, actually say "ar-KAN-sas." Well, the guy's from Michigan, after all.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 04:38 PM

Heavens, Don, maybe we do know the same people. While I was at Ft. Lewis, 1961-63, I had a buddy from Lewisburg, PA, who was a drama student at Bucknell and, later, at Northwestern. He loved to tell, with appropriate accents, guffaws and harrumphs, Lord Chumley jokes. I especially recall the punch line, "I've come to bury Caesar, not to praise him!" You may recall it...

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 04:23 PM

When a new announcer shows up at a station from somewhere else, he's sort of like the new kid at the school, walking down the hall between a line of locals who seem eager to find an excuse to give him the raspberry. He tries his damnedest to learn the particulars and peculiarities of local pronunciations (or, at least, he should), but it's pretty difficult to get it all right until he's lived there for awhile, and he's bound to make the occasional goof.

In fall of 1972, I started working at KORD, a station in Pasco, in south-eastern Washington (one of the Tri-Cities—Pasco, Kennewick, and Richland, just down the pike from Hanford). In an Anthropology class at the U. of Washington some years before, there had been mention of the Shoshone tribe of native Americans. The professor pronounced it "Shoh-SHOH-nee." I had also heard that pronunciation used in movies. When reading a commercial on my third day there, I gave the address of the store, which was on Shoshone Avenue. The phone lit up. I was informed by a number of callers that the "correct" pronunciation was "Shoh-SHOHN." No long "e" at the end. Some folks were polite and informative. Others were rude and contemptious.

I looked it up in a pronunciation guide and learned that it was correctly pronounced either way—which way depended on local option. Can't win 'em all.

I did appreciate the callers who were polite and helpful.

But sometimes there just ain't no way of winning. Speaking of "Des Moines," there is a municipality or "suburb" south of Seattle with that name. As an exercise, the teacher of the vocabulary and pronunciation class I took at broadcasting school, asked a few of us to call city officials or stores in the area and ask them how it should be pronounce, "Duh Moyne" as in Des Moines, Iowa, or some other way. The answers came back that some folks pronounced it one way, some another. There seemed to be no general agreement among the people who lived and worked there.

So—whatcha gonna do!??

My older sister's husband (a Canadian) had a whole repertoire of hilarious jokes about a stuffy, goofy Englishman named Lord Chumley. Funny stuff! Conceive my amazement when I learned that "Chumley" was spelled "Chalmonderley."

Or so I've been told. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Brendy
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 03:19 PM

I can understand a name like Des Moines getting garbled up. If the town was in France, I think I'd try and make a go at a French pronunciation. But I, too listen to how American people pronounce it, and without thinking, I pronounce it like I hear it.

I could understand, a straight 'Belle Forsh', but 'Foosh' is a novel twist, kat.

Belvoir, pronounced 'Beever' is an Anglicanisation, but how it arrived at that pronunciation, I have no idea.

B.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 03:02 PM

I would venture to take issue with Jed and Kat on the WORCESTER issue.

The fact that the locals call it WISS_TAH (as near as I can phoneticize it) don't make it correct imo, although I found it quite endearing during the two years I lived there.

The English town is called WOOSTER, and that is and should be the benchmark pronunciation. ( Incidentally Worcester MA was one of the few American cities, maybe the only one, declared a bombing target by Hitler, presumably because it was the location of the Norton abrasives factory ).

Similarly, I detest the pronunciation of ELGIN as ELL-JIN. Hard "G" please, just like the original Scottish town.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: PoppaGator
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 02:32 PM

Well, Detroit was probably pronounced "day-TWAH" by its original French settlers.

Our current American pronunciation of Des Moines is a sort of compromise between true French and out-and-out Anglicanization. There are plenty of other French place names in the upper Midwest where the last Francophone left many years ago, at which time the pronunciation went up for grabs.

Back to New Orleans ~ I forgot one of my favorites, a wonderful example of mangled Greek:

Many residents of Socrates St. in Algiers say "SO-crates."

Anyone who has ever had the lightest exposure to philosophy knows how wrong that is!

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Bee
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 02:26 PM

Leeneia, it is sometimes found that the Cape Breton pronunciation is the older and/or more correct than what is current in Scotland, but may not be so in this instance: I'm no linguist.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 02:07 PM

The French does get mangled, doesn't it? In WY is Belle Forche, but do not say bel-for-shay if you don't want to be taken for an outsider. Locals say bel-foosh.:-)

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 01:46 PM

I incline towards the opinion that the original Scottish pronunciation was Mac Fair son, and this was modified to Mac Fear son in the U.S.   Mac Fur son is phonetic Transatlantic and is at a further remove.

As to the pronunciation of leeneia, it has no pronunciation. It's merely a screen name.

The radio show is on KKFI, Kansas City, from 11 to 1 (I think) on Sundays.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 11:28 AM

I would, first, like to thank Dave Hunt for the lyrics. A number of comments regarding pronunciation miscreants in the media brought to mind a local phenomenon that persists today. In our Pacific Beach neighborhood, east-west streets are named, in alphabetical order, for gemstones; i.e., beryl, chalcedony - to turquoise, etc. For some reason, garnet is consistently pronounced garNET by local radio and TV wizards. I had a chance meeting at a charity dinner with a local news anchor and asked about this. Not to put too fine a point on it,
I asked if he knew anyone who sported any garNET jewelry. He yielded, with a promise to "look into it." Two days later, he mispronounced it once again, on air. Old bad habits die hard, I reckon.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Brendy
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 11:25 AM

Belvoir.

There's one in Belfast, and there's one outside Sixmilebridge in Co. Clare.

In Belfast, it's BEEVER, in Clare, BELLV-WI-ER

B.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Pistachio
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 11:04 AM

Hi Tattie Bogle. I agree with your pronunciation but wonder if it would be 'explained ' as Mac phrr son. It's my eldest sisters married name and she cringes when called Mac fear son though the 'local' (Blairgowrie) sound would be more like Mac ferrson.

BTW I do appreciate correct pronunciation and spelling of my name, having gone from a McGregor to an English RICHINGS it is irritating to have a 'T' placed before the C! The voice recognition technology at hotel bookings continually refuses to accept my name and patches me through to a 'live' operator!!!
Hazel.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 11:00 AM

It always seems the polite thing to adopt the local pronunciation, however strange. But when it comes to a situation where late comers have mangled the way an existing name is pronounced I'm not sure what's the right thing to do. (For example kat's example of Mesa Verde - or in my part of the world Sawbridgeworth, which used to be called Sapsworth, but now tends to be pronounced the way it's spelt.)

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: PoppaGator
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 10:46 AM

There are plenty of place names in and around New Orleans whose "correct" pronunciation would be incorrect in the original language, and which is also not how most strangers would utter them on a first try. Not unlike some of those Colorado locales Kat mentioned.

Some local street names:

Burgundy (originally French): bur-GUN-dy
Melpomene (Greek): MEL-puh-MEEN (and even, often enough, MEL-kuh-MEEN, but that's another story). Correct Greek is mel-POM-uh-nee.
Burthe (from ???): Byooth
Chartres (French): CHAR-ters (or CHAW-tiz, with a more pronounced local accent) ~ not "Shart-rghh," or however a French native would say it.
Carondelet: car-on-duh-LETT ~ another example where pronunciaiton that would be correct in French (in this case, "car-on-duh-LAY) is, perversely enough, incorrect in New Orleans.

Late-night TV commercials seem to be a source for some of the worst mispronunciations. It seems that some national marketers set up local post-office boxes in different metro areas, and the person doing voice-overs is expected to read each address at the studio in LA or NY, even though there's not way he/she could possibly know how to pronounce all those place-names from around the country.

The best & most common local example of this is when an address in suburban Metairie has to be read out loud. The correct pronunciation for anyone who's ever been in or around Metairie is "MET-uh-ree," often contracted to "MET-ree." (There's even a local taxi company called "Metry Cab.") Folks from elsewhere, understandably enough, very often say "meh-TAIR-ee" on their first try, thereby betraying their status as know-nothing outsiders.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 10:23 AM

Oh, boy, Jed, I had to learn it was not WOO-ster as my old Latin teacher had called herself, but WHU-stuh as my NH husband insisted!**bg&&

I'd just like to make note 'twas I who first posted the "FAIR"...glad to see some of you agree.:-)

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Brendy
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 09:57 AM

I always fancied living in Lyrecrompane... it's a town in County Kerry...

... have a go at it.... ;-)

B.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: GUEST,Minerva
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 09:45 AM

leeneia, you said, "Friends of mine are going to do a radio show soon..."

What radio show would that be, that would have MacPhersons in it? I thought radio was a Dali-esque wasteland of shriveled, barkless trees, effette clocks, dry, dusty screaming, and brain-dead hyperjabber. I shot a radio, once.

BTW how do you pronounce "leeneia"?

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: JedMarum
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 09:37 AM

OOops I mean:

No wonder they say Mac-FEAR-son.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: JedMarum
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 09:36 AM

Growing up in New England I never had a problem with this city name - and I'm sure the UK folks here will think this is funny too, but many people from the US outside of New England can't say Worcester.

They'll say WORE SESTER or WORE CHESTER even WOO STER or WOO SESTER. I'm not sure why the word is difficult, but it frequently gives people a challenge.

No wonder they say Mac-FUR-son.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: GUEST,HuwG at work
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 08:50 AM

Dvorak is properly pronounced "D.V. O'Rourke". One of two composers who emigrated secretly from Ireland to Central Europe (the other being K. O'Daly). Joke courtesy of Frank Muir c. 1967.

A guide to how the second of those two composers is pronounced properly comes from a friend in Sheffield who once related that he requested some classical number called "Could I but express in music?" from the local record library. They were unable to find it because either the librarian or the computer transcribed it as "Kodaly buttocks-pressing music".

Fro those of us who still remember "Dr. Finlay's casebook" in black and white on the box, MacPherson is pronounced :

"Janet ?"
"Aye, Dr. Cameron ?"

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 04:43 AM

The majority of people on this thread are in favour of FUR, with a few FEAR, But I am absolutely sure a number of people out west(in Scotland that is, not America) use something rather closer to FAIR than FUR.I am not Scottish myself, but I have travelled extensively in those parts.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Bert
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 11:23 PM

And also regarding pronunciation

Stolen from a newspaper Limeric contest years ago...

There was a young man from DunLaoghaire
who propounded an interesting thaoghaire
that the language of Erse
has a shortage of verse
for the spelling makes poets so waoghaire

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 11:23 PM

I haven't heard any newbies pronounce, Bert. How do they say it?

Another one, which is actually proper, from a Spanish standpoint, is Mesa Verde i.e. "MAY-saw/sah VER (almost as in air)-day/dee" but you wouldn't catch old Western Slope natives saying it that way. It was always MAY-saw/sah veard, as in "heard."

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Bert
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 11:14 PM

Not to mention Buena Vista kat.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 10:41 PM

Great song!

Speaking of on-air folks. What drives me nuts is the people who move here and won't learn the proper pronunciation of place names. In Western Colorado the town is Mawn-TROZ, not MAWNT-roes for Montrose and you-RAY, not OO-ray for Ouray!

What's even worse, imo, is they've apparently changed the historical spelling of the Saguache mountains to the phonetic "Sawatch." At least the county name remained the original.

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 09:09 PM

Great song! That's one of my biggies!

Don Firth

Subject: Lyr Add: MACPHERSON'S FAREWELL
From: Dave Hunt
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 09:06 PM

--
As well as I can remember after all these years- haven't heard it sung it for a very long time!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MACPHERSON'S FAREWELL

Fareweel, ye dungeons dark and strang,
Fareweel, Fareweel tae thee.
MacPherson's time will nae be lang
On yonder gallows tree.

CHO: Sae rantin'ly, sae wantonly
Sae dauntin'ly gaed he
He played a tune and danced it a-roon'
Below the gallows tree.

'Twas by a woman's treacherous hand
That I was condemned to dee.
She stood upon a window ledge
And a blanket she threw o'er me.


Untie these bands frae off my hands
And gie to me my sword.
There's no' a man in all Scotland
But I'll brave him at a word.

There's some come here tae see me hanged
And some to buy my fiddle.
But before I do part wi' her
I'll brak her thro' the middle.

He took the fiddle in both of his hands
And he broke it o'er all a-stane
Says,"There's nae ither hand shall play on thee
When I am dead and gane."

O little did my mother think
When first she cradled me,
That I would turn a rovin' boy
And be hanged on the gallows tree.

The reprieve was comin' oot o'Brig o'Banf
Tae set MacPherson free,
But they pit the clock a quarter afore
And hanged him frae the tree.

Dave

Subject: RE: MacPherson [how to pronounce?]
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 09:04 PM

Yeah, Bill, lots of the stuff I hear on radio and television uttered by people who are supposed to know better really makes me wince. Most stations have dictionaries and pronunciation guides stashed on a bookshelf somewhere, but getting people to pull them off the shelf and use them is a whole different ball game. I've worked in stations that didn't have them, and if they do, sometimes the station manager or program director don't know they're there.

I have my own copy of The NBC Pronunciation Guide (old copy--one should get a new copy every year or two to keep up with names of heads of state and other prominent people who start appearing in the news). I was once told in broadcasting school that on-the-air voices should be good examples of the proper use of language and pronunciation because many people assume that since they're professional, they know what they're doing. Caviat emptor!

As I say, having the guides and using them are two different things.

Don Firth