Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:18 PM

Having watched both episodes, which span several weeks/months, it strikes me that the weather must have been so much better back then - why, it was one long summer!

I haven't read the book, and so enjoyed the programme moderately. But as a storyline it carries little "punch", and so ends up as a series of tableaux as much as anything. Yes, I can see that the Dawn French character is played over the top, perhaps too much so, but I am a DF fan and therefore excuse her trespasses.

I will watch the series to the end. But unlike, say, the BBC's Pride & Prejudice, I probably will not watch it again later when it is repeated.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: The PA
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:54 AM

We very often spot equestrian mishaps in these kind of programmes, wrong breeds/types of horses, modern tack, the wrong type of trap or carriage for the occupant class etc etc, but you sometimes have to overlook them and not let it spoil your enjoyment of the story.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:33 AM

"There has been little enough music and song in 'Larkrise' so far"

I don't think it was ever the BBC's intention to include anything traditional. We take this production as we find, or don't watch it.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST,fogie
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:10 AM

What type was the melodeon that was sold by her son to help defer the custodial sentence ( I would have kept it and let her go down personally - I think her children would have been better brought up by the son and neighbours ) Where are social worker time travellers when you need them?
Little Laura has a smile reminiscent of Diana Rigg - ah youth !

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 05:39 AM

I actually enjoyed the second episode more than the first. Apart, that is, from Dawn French playing Dawn French, and the fact that everything is a bit too sanitised.

There were some moments of great visual beauty (the woodland scenes with the convict and his wife, for example). But the overall visual tone is more Helen Allingham than George Clausen (anyone know the rural paintings of George Clausen? They are often very gritty and convincing - especially a poignant and powerful image of a ragged boy scaring crows at dusk).

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 04:15 AM

There has been little enough music and song in 'Larkrise' so far, but it has always struck me how the producers of these period dramas seldom get it right with traditional song; taking great pains to be 'authentic' with costume and location, but usually taking the soft option and opting for a 'name' who really hasn't a clue.
In my opinion, one of the notable exceptions was the job John Tams (?) did on the beautiful St Kilda film, 'Ill Fares The Land'.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 07:23 PM

Not to mention Gerard Horan appearing as the publican in LRTC on BBC and as the policeman in Kingdom on ITV shortly afterwards...

I thought Beans Balawi did well!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: The Doctor
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 06:39 PM

And Linda Bassett also played Mrs Jennings in S&S, Julia Sawalha also played Jessie Brown in Cranford, Claudie Blakley also played Martha in Cranford. We can't begrudge any one the work but it can be a little distracting, with three productions in quick succession.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 05:43 PM

And Claire Skinner also played Fanny Dashwood in Sense & Sensibility!

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 05:40 PM

Super programme indeed - could have done with adverts to allow time to pop into the kitchen!

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Surreysinger
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 05:38 PM

Ah, the Mysteries - I saw it at the Edinburgh Festival, at the Assembly Rooms, and remember Brian Glover, and Jack Shepherd, and the wonderful Robert Stephens as Herod .... stunning stuff, and oh so much longer ago than I care to think about !

I have to admit that I couldn't bring myself to watch LRTC on the box, as I am far too fond of the books, and what I had seen in the Radio Times, and in the way of trailers suggested a rather sanitised and unfaithful rendition of their content. (The NT production is not relevant in the context of considering the TV serialisation, as they are both only adaptations of the true original, each different in their own way ... and the TV production is an adaptation of the book not the play). It seems from the above comments, and a discussion which ensued about the production before a performance of "Down the Lawson Track" in Guildford last night, that I was right to be dubious and avoid it.... the words "soap opera" were used at one point!1

Re the book, the last paragraph of the chapter entitled At the Wagon and Horses was the one that I found memorable...

"Songs and singers have all gone, and in their places the wireless blares out variety and swing music, or informs the company in cultured tones of what is happening in China or Spain. Children no longer listen outside. There are very few who could listen, for the thirty or forty which throve there in those days have dwindled to about half a dozen, and these, happily, have books, wireless, and a good fire in their own homes. But, to one of an older generation, it seems that faint echo of those songs must still linger round the inn doorway. The singers were rude and untaught and poor beyond modern imagining: but they deserve to be remembered, for they knew the now lost secret of being happy on little".

Incidentally, the book is full of other snippets - for instance the chapter on Country Playtime has a number of children's games (mostly singing games), and in "Over to Candleford" various songs such as The Old Armchair, and the Gypsy's Warning are mentioned - as well as full words of The Garden Gate, which was a song published in "English County Songs" by Lucy Broadwood and J A Fuller Maitland in 1893 ..... plenty more examples to be found throughout the book.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Tootler
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 04:48 PM

Well once again Mudcat turns up grumps!

That was me. I had lost my cookie and not noticed, my apologies. Reading the subsequent posts, I have no reason to change my view. Some folk are never happy unless they have something to moan about.

Just watched tonight's episode and I thought it was very well done. As I said earlier, I cannot judge how true it is to the book as I have not read it (them as there were several), but taken in its own right it was well done. Although late 19th cent rural England was somewhat prettified, the story itself was not over sentimentalised.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Saro
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 04:08 PM

Going to The Mysteries was one of my best ever theatrical experiences, and not just because when everyone joined in the dance at the end,I got to dance with God! And with my husband watching as well!!   
But all the same, we've just watched Lark Rise, and though it isn't great, it makes a pleasant enough Sunday evening entertainment, and may prompt some people to read the far more wonderful book.
Saro

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 01:53 PM

I was just throwing out last week's Radio Times when I noticed the by-line, "your escape to a rural idyll starts here". How much do the good folks at Radio times think an Oxfordshire farm labourer earned in those days?

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 01:27 PM

Ha ha, God like Allah was a woman. That's one for the robed ones to ponder!

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 01:19 PM

Aye, that was the late, great Brian Glover in the Mysteries. Brings a lump to the throat and raises the hairs on the neck just remembering him. They were such fantastic productions.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Anne Lister
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 11:33 AM

I don't remember God in the Cottesloe productions ... he was, however, (should that be He?) in the Mysteries, produced by the same team, around the same time, and similarly with the Albions and friends.
Ah, those were the days!

Anne

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 07:55 AM

It will never be Lark Rise as we know it, it merely shares the name and characters. Out of interest, the Cottesloe production had just over 1 hour of music in many forms - from the full welly of the Albion Band to children singing and "turns" in the Coach and Horses. Even God sang!!

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 07:29 PM

Well once again Mudcat turns up grumps!

I am quite glad I have not read the book as I can enjoy the programme for what it was. Yes, they have prettied up late 19th. century rural England, but I enjoyed the storyline.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 03:59 PM

Ah, labouring boy of course, just listened to it again but it does sound like "neighbouring" when sung by Shirley Collins and Martin Carthy even if it makes no sense. That was the song that closed the show.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 03:25 PM

Rather a pleasant mondegreen though - perhaps it could catch on in other contexts. "Vote for your Neighbour Party candidate"...

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 03:17 PM

I suppose what he's trying to say is "labouring".

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 02:19 PM

Wat the 'enry Meville is Bonnie Neighboring Boy ?

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Compton
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 02:19 PM

Fliss wrote "I gather Dawn French's character isnt really like that in the book... but what the heck."

...Is Dawn French in it to make the masses watch it...or to put them off?

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 11:53 AM

Ok, it's very good for what it is, but very bad for what it isn't. I'll miss Sally who drove the geese home and Bonnie Neighboring Boy, but I expect the Lark Rise Band will perform those!

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 07:32 AM

I was disappointed. It felt as if someone had decided to apply the TV Little House on the Prairy approach to 19th century rural England. Everyone and everything was scrubbed shiny and clean and cosy.   And of course there was Dawn French - as Rockin' Reeler said, a good reason to give any programme a miss.

It could and should have been done so much better.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 07:20 AM

http://www.bondle.co.uk/personal_pages/sarah/flora.htm

Gerry

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:28 PM

So it did!!!

http://www.4shared.com/file/35232542/a185dfa2/LarkRise.html

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 11:56 AM

THE hamlet stood on a gentle rise in the flat, wheat-growing north-east corner of Oxfordshire. We will call it Lark Rise because of the great number of skylarks which made the surrounding fields their springboard and nested on the bare earth between the rows of green corn.
- Flora Thompson(1876 - 1947) Lark Rise to Candleford

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 11:19 AM

"Anything with Dawn French in it is well worth a miss!"

that's your opinion sun-shine..

unfortunately though Lark Rise to Candleford is one to be avoided.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 05:17 AM

Anything with Dawn French in it is well worth a miss!

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Brian Peters
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:16 AM

"Bill sings it completely in traditional, highly decorated style..."

...and you've just named one of my all-time favourite recordings of a traditional singer, Jim.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 03:13 AM

Whoops sorry - misremembered after 30 year; of course it was 'The Outlandish Knight'.
Brian, as you say, The Outlandish Knight lived on in the tradition - and still does to some extent.
It is particularly popular among Irish Travellers, from whom we recorded around six very full versions.
One singer we got it from, Bill Cassidy, learned it from his father (who can be heard telling stories on the Pavvee Point CD 'Whisht'), as did his brother Andy. Bill sings it completely in traditional, highly decorated style, while Andy, whose taste tends towards C&W, sings it like a cowboy song.
An example of Andy's singing (as a boy) can also be heard on 'Whisht' singing 'My Rifle, My Pony and Me'.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: RTim
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 06:45 PM

Woodfidley are named after an enclosure in the New Forest - probably now cut down since it became a National Park.

Tim Radford - who knew many of the dancers way back in the 1970's

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 06:42 PM

with their friends on their equally noisy mini motos, with no lights and no crash helmets.

I'd love to run one of those over. the only thing that has stopped me (twice!) in the past is thinking "Well, he must be someones' son..."

One of these days;-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 05:29 PM

"slight drift, but has anyone watched Jam & Jerusalem? All the music is performed by Kate Rusby which enticed me to watch the last episode - quite enjoyable"
and much thanks to Ray Davies for providing the theme( for those who don't know it's The Village Green Preservation Society)..who says Ray isn't a folkie?*LOL*

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 03:34 PM

Les - I too remember Woodfidley. Led by David Slater IIRC. Mike Ruff was one of the dancers.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 02:42 PM

Better those than the practice of young oiks today riding very noisy scooters in a very dangerous manner with their friends on their equally noisy mini motos, with no lights and no crash helmets.

"but she doesn't behave at all the way Dawn French portays her and is, indeed, a much more minor character all round." - and that, is a very long way round!!

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 01:45 PM

"and where the f*** did the Dawn French character come from?"
that character is in the Lark Rise section of the book, but she doesn't behave at all the way Dawn French portays her and is, indeed, a much more minor character all round.

what I should have said in my previous posting is Laura Ashley Meets The Archers, and folk music actually plays little part in the books. Indeed there is a scene where a melodeon player is actually playing "the popular tunes of the day", to quote Flora Thompson, and that the "old ways" were fast dying out, even then.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 01:41 PM

Double blue clicky I claim a free pint!

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 01:40 PM

I bet you will stray where you want Shim. It can be uncomfortable if you fall in / out with the various tribes.

I remember seeing Woodfiddly, I think they were called, at Sidmouth. I think they did a lot of Playford. They were dressed like something out of a restoration comedy. In a way that was authentic but it didn't suite me and my tribe.

I think song has survived amongst the rural working class whilst dance has survived a bit further up the social tree. And I think that lies at the heart of some of our folk tribalism.

Or maybe not!

Cheers

Les listening to :Paddyrasta

Paddyrasta

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 01:28 PM

"It's just that some of us sometime do get lost in Merry England?"

The thing is, Les, not only are we not allowed to 'get lost in it' we can't even discuss it any more.

There seem to be 'standard' (PC?) views on everything these days - and woe betide those who stray (or even appear to stray!) from the 'party line'.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: RTim
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 01:15 PM

My memory may be a little skewed on this one, but anyone interested should look at the following site for loads of info, on FT, etc.

http://www.johnowensmith.co.uk/flora/

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: RTim
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 01:10 PM

Flora Thompson did not start writing until she was very much older and living in Bournemouth.

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Brian Peters
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 12:12 PM

>> I think the reason The Outlandish Knight stuck in my mind, apart from its relative completeness, is that it's the last song sung of the evening. Also, FT's preface to it; "Probably a long chain of grandfathers had sung it; but David was fated to be the last of them. It was out of date, even then, and only tolerated on account of his age." <<

I'm sure Fred doesn't need me to point out the The Outlandish Knight has been collected many times since Flora Thompson wrote 'Lark Rise'. If you want a pub example, Hockey Feltwell was still singing it in the Nag's Head, Southery, Norfolk, in 1959 - as demonstrated by the wonderful Veteran release 'Heel & Toe'. He had a version of 'Lamkin', as well.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 10:55 AM

That was my take on what you said Shim. It's just that some of us sometime do get lost in Merry England?

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 10:24 AM

Dear Fee Lock,

I just KNEW that someone would be unable to resist telling me all those things. I hope you feel better for getting all that off your chest! I feel like someone who has been told, "whatever you do, don't press that red button!" ... and I went and pressed it - doh!!

The point that I was trying to make is, just because those old folk had it hard, doesn't mean that we should forget them.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 09:53 AM

I have to agree that the BBC adaptation is a chintzy travesty of the original (and where the f*** did the Dawn French character come from?), but it has persuaded me to buy the re-release of the Albion album (now on iTunes).
The Cottesloe production was one of those life-affirming gems of theatre - one of many such done there which featured John Tams and Ashley Hutchings - and I feel hugely privileged to have seen it.

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 09:46 AM

Thanks Fee, says it all!

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Lark Rise to Candleford -BBC serial
From: Fee Lock
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 09:29 AM

Snippety snip from Shimrod:

>Watching 'LRTC' I got this sinking feeling that the old world of rural England is now, more or less, forgotten. I'm sure that someone will remind me that it was nasty, brutal and smelly (I've no doubt that it was!) but there was something rather admirable about it - particularly the labouring folk who worked so hard for pitiful wages and, if we think of them at all now, are dismissed as 'yokels' or 'bumpkins'. Their 'Old World' (by which I mean their inner lives, rather than their material circumstances) has been swept away - much like the once beautiful English countryside has been swept away<

Forgive me ... but no anaesthetic, no dentistry, no antibiotics; no minimum wage, no employee protection, walking to & from work and indeed working in all conditions, doffing one's hat to gentry; washing a family's clothes in the pot by hand & mangle; early & lingering death from pleurisy, TB and childhoods blighted by polio; near-starvation conditions every January; marriage at 14, first child at 15 & giving birth to aunts & uncles at the same time as becoming a grandmother ...

Flora Thompson's books are a brilliant view into a world that has indeed gone, but she makes it absolutely clear that even as late as the 1880s the people she was writing about were little more than serfs.

Fee x