buying an autoharp

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Jane of 'ull
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 03:27 PM

I tried signing up to Cyberpluckers and got bombarded with emails so I unsubscribed. All I want to know really is what are the best places to buy one cheaper than usual, and how to tell if it's up to scratch.

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Bugsy
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 09:03 PM

When I was a teenager, back in the 60's I tried, without success to learn the guitar and the banjo. At the time Bill Clifton was touring the UK and during one of his show the picked up the Autoharp and said, "If you want to play a musical instrument and cant master it, try the Autoharp. If you can't master the basics of the Autoharp, then the next step down is the Triangle"

That sealed it for me. I got an Autoharp for my next birthday and was playing within an hour.


Cheers
Bugsy

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: freespiritceol1
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 03:36 PM

Have a look at this site, great company to deal with, we bought an autoharp here recently very pleased with it. Good luck

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Jane of 'ull
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 01:47 PM

Thanks Nathan, I will send them a message.

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Nathan in Texas
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 02:33 PM

Post the question to the autoharp list, Cyberpluckers. Join the list at The Autoharp Page. .

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Jane of 'ull
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 01:27 PM

I would like to buy an autoharp, I recently played the Ashbury 21 bar harp and I liked it a lot, does anyone know where I can currently get one a bit cheaper than buying new?

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 06:44 PM

Hi Dan,

I agree that a magnetic pick up loses the sound of the wood. The one I have I use in a powered up folk band. A woody sound would be nice but impractical. When I play a single I use a 40 year old Appalachian that has been diatonicized for the key of C/F. You are correct it is celestial to say the least. For other keys I use the harp I described in my first comment. I built a harp years ago to plans from The AutoHarp Quarterly which is rapidly becoming a favorite. Again it is set up like the my earlier comment.

I do find that I use the picks up more to aid tuning than actual amplification except for the magnetic.

Don

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 06:21 PM

That is really useful Dan. Thank you so much.

Amber

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 02:48 PM

A diatonic autoharp is one that has some of the strings doubled up, and skips certain notes in a chromatic scale (one that includes all the sharps and flats). Most autoharps are chromatic; most diatonic ones are custom jobs. The advantage of a diatonic is that the sound is better - doubled up strings give a brilliant, almost "celestial" sound. The disadvantage is that you can play in fewer keys, and if you have an oddball seventh chord you want to hit - tough luck. Diatonics come in 1, 2, and 3 keys - with greater flexibility (but fewer doubled strings) as you go up. In a 1 or 2 key, a good player can play some of the melody notes without using any chord bars at all, which gives a somewhat different sound. I have a chromatic and 3 key diatonic. In the diatonic I sacrificed some of the doubled strings even further so I could have greater range on both ends. I'm very happy with it.

My guess is you'll probably end up starting with a chromatic.

The pickup is a kind of microphone built into the instrument, and it's not essential. A magnetic pickup is simply a big magnet across the top (usually placed under the chord bars so you can't see it) which works by picking up the vibration of the strings and transmitting it to a sound system, tuner, or piece of recording equipment. Since it only picks up the strings, it doesn't give you any chord bar clacking, but also doesn't pick up the authentic sound of the instrument. I also don't like them much because a big bar laying across the top wood tends to decrease the natural vibration of the wood. Transducer pads pick up more of the vibration of the instrument itself, and can be strategically placed inside the instrument. I have both systems on different autoharps, and I prefer the transducer pads - though generally I use neither in actual performance. I think the best use for a pickup is tuning - you plug a tuner directly into the instrument and tune the thing in a noisy room. It's not a necessary piece of equipment, though - a little alligator clip tuner pickup would accomplish the same thing. I like the ones made by Crate.

While it's always risky to buy any instrument sight unseen and sound unheard, you can always ask questions on Ebay, and take steps if the item is not exactly as described.

PoppaGator, it's true you can make partial chords by pressing two bars down at once - but since the bars STOP certain strings from vibrating, you almost always end up with only one or two notes - so it's more partial than exotic. It can be handy, if you have to play along with folks who aren't playing in your key, or want to hit a single note across octaves, but it's not a technique I use very often. I once met a street player in Montreal who had invented a system in which all the bars had four or five open notes, and by hitting the right combination of bars he could create any chord he wanted. It was an intriguing idea, but I imagine it would take an engineer's mind - which I don't have - to replicate well.

Strap buttons are easy to install and can be done after you have your new 'harp.

Dan Schatz

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 01:11 PM

I'm very surprised not to see Harpgirl's name anywhere in this thread. You out there, girl? Maybe you are here, and have contributed, but have changed your Mudcat name (maybe to your real name?). On the other hand, maybe she has taken leave from Mudcat, at least temporarily. (I know all about that, having done so myself for different lengths of time.)

I didn't know you could rig an autoharp with a strap; I had assumed that every player who held the intrument to their chest was holding the thing up while also using both hands to play. I suppose that many are doing just that, but many others are using a strap.

Aren't there chords ~ partial and/or exotic ones ~ that you can make by pressing down two buttons/bars at once? Or perhaps pressing two or more buttons is a way to play single notes more easily ~ ?

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:51 PM

Thank you very much Dan. All that is food for thought. Could you possibly clarify what exactly magnetic pickups and transducer pads are? Also what is meant by diatronic? I have heard these terms a great deal. I had not thought about warping - that is a really good point. It is obviously very risky to buy one second hand - particularly if you haven't even seen the instrument. I must confess I had looked at some of the OS ones on ebay. However, the Lorenzo model recommended by Simon G. sounds alright to me, I think I may go for that.

Amber

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 10:54 AM

It's true that magnetic pickups just pick up the strings - but by the same token they don't pick up the sound of the wood, so you lose a lot of tonal quality. Well placed transducer pads are a better bet, I think, as is a plain old good microphone (again, well placed). Frankly, I find autoharp pickups are most useful for tuning, rather than performing. The lavaliere clipped to the shirt is a good idea - Bryan Bowers taught me how to cover it up with foam so I can lean the 'harp against it. (I use a Sony ECM-55b.)

As for buying an autoharp, especially if it's used, you'll want to check very carefully for warping on the top - autoharp strings put 2,000 pounds of pressure on an instrument, which can cause a lot of damage if the autoharp is not well made to begin with. Also check the tuning pegs - do they turn well? Do they slip? Some autoharps are made with cheap chrome pegs, which is okay, but over time they can become stripped. Other cheaper autoharps may have only a 4-ply tuning block, so the instrument may be more difficult to get into tune and hold its tune. A fine-tuning system is a major bonus, if you find one that has it installed.

Finally, check the chord bars. Bill Day has already mentioned that you need to look at (and listen to) the felts and the springs - but you probably want to make sure that this instrument has the chords you'll be wanting to play. Autoharps can have anywhere from 4 to 21 bars - most have 12 to 15. They don't always sound equally good in every key. For some reason, most "standard" Oscar Schmidt autoharps sound best in C and F, and pretty good in G and B flat. So if you're playing with fiddlers a great deal, you'll want to look for an instrument that sounds better than most in D and A. I had
one built by Keith Young for that very purpose, and love it well.

As for playing the darn thing - as long as it's in good tune and the chord bars and felts are in good shape, you can learn to accompany yourself and make a pleasant sound. With more practice you can memorize the chord positions - these are generally in an easy to learn pattern on each autoharp, but the patterns often vary with different autoharps. Knowing the chord positions helps singing as well as playing; nobody sings well with their head bent down. With lots of practice and experience you can learn melodies and fancier playing techniques.

I've been playing 25 years now, and it's still a joy. Good luck to you!

Dan Schatz

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: amber
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 12:31 PM

Thanks, that sounds pretty good to me and I think I may well go for that one. I can deal with slight smudges!

Amber

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Simon G
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 12:19 PM

Amber

Yes it is maghogany finish. It does look the business straight out of the box and was pretty much in tune. The only slight blemish was a smudge on the button of one of the bars. It has strap buttons.

Tuning is easy, all you need is a chromatic tuner.

Simon

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 11:26 PM

I have an old DeArmond magnetic on my one electrified harp. I like it fine. My concern about transducer type pick ups on Autoharps is they pick up everything from the string vibration to to the bars hitting the covers when they are played. They sound like you are harnessing a team of horses. Magnetics pick up just the strings.

I have a friend who uses a Lavaliere microphone clipped to her blouse and that does a good job as well. But it has to be clipped in such a way as to not hit the back of the harp. Easy with women, not so much with men.

Don

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 12:14 PM

anyone tried one of these?

http://schattendesign.com/ad.htm

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: amber
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 11:21 AM

Simon G. was it the one with the mahogany finish which comes with picks etc?

It looks good.

Amber

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: amber
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 11:13 AM

Thanks
I'll try Chris Younger and have a look at Eagle Music. That's very helpful.

Amber

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Willa
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 09:50 AM

Thanks for the link, Banjo Ray - that looks very enticing!

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 08:44 AM

purchased a 21 bar "Gremlin" branded autoharp [and hard case]
from Hobgoblin for about £170 about 5 or 6 years ago.
Its a very good quality gloss laqueur finished Korean made instrument.
Sounds good enough to me.
It was factory fitted with strap buttons.

I've seen very similar Korean autohaps printed with different Brandnames..
and the the quality seems very consistent...

Also bought an Oscar Scmidt 'bar magnet' pickup from US ebay
to electric it up lound and nasty punky..
but couldn't face up to drilling holes into such a nice brand new instrument.


So soon after imported an Oscar Schmidt electric model from a US seller [factory fitted with bar magnet pickup and battery powered pre-amp]
this one is Chinese made and noticably not as well finished as the Korean autoharp.
the wood working in the sound board cut-outs is rough around the edges,
and a bit splintery where the tuning pegs are fitted.

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Judy Dyble
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 07:21 AM

I would agree that the main problem with autoharps is tuning them. But I understand that the newer ones are much easier to work with than the ones I was using (and still have) from 40 odd years ago.

They're beautiful instruments and with the harnesses that people use with them now, are much less strain on the shoulders.

I'm a bit biased. I love the sound of them....

You could try Chris Younger for advice on buying as well.There's a lot of info here
http://www.ukautoharps.org.uk/

He did restring my electric autoharp that had been ahem! sadly neglected for far too many years

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Simon G
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 06:28 AM

Missed the blue clicky.

Eagle Music

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Simon G
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 06:27 AM

I bought an autoharp for Sandra from Eagle Music for Christmas. She had a three chord one when a teenager which lasted until our oldest child was 5 or 6 and stood on it. He is now 23 so time for a replacement.

The one from Eagle Music is called a Lorenzo on the website but doesn't have any makers name visible on it. It seems solid, certainly heavy. Holds good tune, has good tone and the chord bars work well. I think it might be a little quiet, but I haven't enough experience of autoharps to know.

Works well with Sandra singing, ans it not that difficult to do a solo on it with the starting to strum at the melody string style. Sandrs had Auld Lang Syne sorted for New Years Eve and several more since. People who would turn the noses up at hearing Amazing Grace enjoy it on an Autoharp.

Sandra likes to accompany other people at singarounds with it and I think she has probably used all 21 chord bars by now -- and would like more.

To accompany yourself you could get away with fewer bars but you might have to get the made for you so they are in the correct keys for your voice (or make them yourself).

Unless you are terminally shy, get one. They draw a crowd everywhere you go.

Surprisingly they do work well playing along with other people acoustically, they fill out the sound, you can barely here the autoharp but adds a lot of body to the sound. A fun instrument and worth every penny.

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: amber
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 05:00 AM

Many thanks again for the advice, I'll try to bear it all in mind. The summer school sounds great. I am not absolutely sure how I would wish to play it, although I did try one recently and the 'Burp the Baby' position felt comfortable. Maybe that's because I've brought up four babies though....

I think it would possibly be sensible to go for a secondhand one. I did read on another site that the quality of the OS autoharps had deteriorated since they changed the production site. Any comments?

Amber

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Little Robyn
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 02:52 AM

The sort of autoharp you choose will depend on the way you wish to play it - either flat on your lap like June Carter Cash
or upright like Mother Maybelle

June needed more room at the bottom end of her instrument while Mother Maybelle needed the bars lower down to give her more space at the top end.
PoppaGator, the placement of the bars is normally user friendly, the same as an accordion - ie, the C bar usually has an F on one side and G7 on the other. Or G with C and D7 close by. I often play in F and the C and Bflat are close by. It's only if you want to do some fancy picking on tunes like Victory Rag or Buckdancer's Choice that you need to memorise some big jumps.
I started with a little black table top model in the 50s, graduated to a 15 bar Chromaharp in the mid60s and found an Oscar Schmit in 1980.
Robyn

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 01:27 AM

I play the Burp The Baby style with out a strap. Many people play that style with a strap. Ivan Stiles uses or use to a Slider strap for Autoharps. There is no wrong way to hold and play it.

When you hold it upright and play in "C" put your middle finger on the "C" your index on the "F" and your ring finger on the "G" or think of it as Middle =1 index = 4 ring = 5. On a standard 15 bar your relative minors will be in the back row near enough behind to be any easy reach with practice.

You may find that you will rearrange the bars and customize your harp. Many ways to do it. Mine currently is from bottom to top in the front rank:

E7-A7-D-G-C-F-Bb   and in the back, bottom to top D7-F#m-Bm-Em-Am-Dm-Gm

I have an empty space at the top so I can have more string area to play in. For me I find 21 bar harps to be clumbsy and cluttered alth' I envy the many chords.

Don

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 11:47 PM

Oops, sorry 'bout that Bill! I've got a zither I should send her, but the grandson does love plucking it and it's got a good tone.

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 11:15 PM

Thousands of "public school" autoharps are available.

They were common 1950 to 1962 when music (folk) was part of the regular curriculum in New York and California.

Look for good felts...moths eat felt.

Look for cracks in the sounding boards (any wood cracks)

Strings will be fine for learning - but use a "scrub-pad" to knock off the rust.

Your MAJOR Problem....because you know nothing (and most school district teachers knew nothing) is with the TUNING. But the teachers had words/chords and most of all 78 recordings to follow.

School districts, large enough, had regular tuners for autoharps and pianos. When "music week" hit the calendar for 2nd, then 3rd....everything was ready.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

We Admire YOUR pluck ... but for your buck ... purchase a good MP3 ampliphier....and teach music IMMEDIATELY RELATED to your immediate curriculum....MLK songs for this month...Log Cabin songs in February....otherwise your administrative reviews...may be eskewed.

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 10:41 PM

*tsk*..katmelove, Rita plays only the Zither...which is maybe 4 times as hard as playing an autoharp...which is why, I, her clever husband, restrict myself to the "Mickey Mouse chord changer" as I have heard the autoharp called.
The basic point, for Amber, is that it is easy to get started on a decent autoharp, but serious melody playing requires some work. Tuning is 1st challenge, and a digital tuner is standard equipment these days.

Amber...being in the US, I am not familiar with that brand, but do check to see that chord bars move up & down smoothly with minimal travel, so that the felt meets the strings cleanly each time..(no wobbling end to end)...also, that the felt itself doesn't seem TOO soft and likely to develop deep grooves that allow 'buzzing'.

The wrench provided should fit snugly around the tuning pegs, for ease in fine movements. Tuning is a pain when the tuning wrench slips.

Whether you hold it to the body, or play it on a table or your lap is personal choice, though holding it up is much easier when doing fanck picking...for most people. You WILL get tired places in wrists at first until you adapt it to your posture and size.

DO try several types of picks....metal banjo types are the hardest to learn, but some pros use them a lot....I prefer plastic...or a bent wire gadget used for Sitars, called Mizrab...which allows strumming in both directions, but is hard to adjust to the fingers.

If possible, MEET someone who plays one and watch and ask some questions....it can save lots of confusion.

and ask more here when you get an instrument.

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:09 PM

Not a bad piece of picking HERE.

Lookout! Here she comes AGAIN,

I don't know who the lady is, but she seems to be pretty precise about getting the specific melody strings she wants, and not all autoharp players seem to be able to manage that. Nice and clean.

I like the sound of an autoharp and have often thought of taking it up, but after over five decades, I'm still trying to find my way around the six strings on my guitar. But—maybe. . . .

Anyway, amber, good hunting!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: BanjoRay
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 07:58 PM

If you find an autoharp there's a first class five day course at Sore Fingers Summer School in the Cotswolds over Easter week. They usually get 15-20 players in the class every year. This year the tutor is Mike Fenton, one of the best players in the WORLD, who loves to teach. He often travels to schools and takes a van load of autoharps to give instruction. He seems to be able to turn beginners into musicians. He's British, but has walked off with many prizes in competitions in the USA, the home of the autoharp.
In the hands of people like Mike the autoharp has taken on a new personality, and you can find people playing complex melodies in interesting rhythms, instead of the old "press a key and thrash it" technique.
Over the week at Sore Fingers, you'd get to hear lots of great music from the students of other stringed instruments and their tutors as well. I do an Old Time fiddle course and love it immensely.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: amber
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 06:49 PM

Thanks again everyone - I enjoyed the links.

Amber

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 06:38 PM

Rita Ferrara might have some tips on playing one...she's been doing so for years, I hear. I'll also ask Night Owl as she's been urging me to play one for years. I did buy one and wound up sending it to her. I had the same problem as you, Poppa...it was just terribly awkward. Now, though, several years later, I think I'd like to try again.

On the lap was good enough for June Carter Cash. :-) (youtube video)

I was going to say it probably helps to be slim and/or small chested, but this fellow doesn't seem to have any problems with it.

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: oombanjo
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 06:19 PM

Billy Sables Has one that he might sell. Pm him cheers Oombanjo

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: amber
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 06:07 PM

Mmmm ,the more I hear about autoharps the more I like the sound of them. Thanks for your comments everyone.

Now, about my original question - has anyone has any experience of Ashbury instruments, or does anyone know where I can get a second hand one ? Apart from Mouse, that is - Mouse I would be intersted to hear about your autoharp.

I live in Redditch, Worcestershire

Amber

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 05:23 PM

Willa, I'm sorry to hear that you weren't able to overcome that problem. I had assumed that it could be overcome with good advice plus practice.

I can see that one would have to memorize the button-placement, and not rely upon looking at the labels ~ but that much is pretty much true of playing any instrument; your "feel" should eventually allow you not to look at the fingerboard/keyboard/whatever.

I still believe that it must be an easy intrument to play once you get past figuring out how to hold it. A person who comes to the autoharp after learning to play a fingerpicked string instrument has a huge advantage, of course, but simple strumming of an autoharp sounds plenty good enough. As Diana pointed out above, it's just about impossible for this instrument not to sound good.

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: Willa
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 05:12 PM

PoppagatorI've had the same problems about playing it in the 'normal' position, but now play 'lapstyle' and use a strap; that prevents it from sliding off my knee! I have been told that I 'should' play it the other way, but simply can't do it.

Amber. If you buy an autoharp you'll be able to find some teach-yourself books to get you started. One of the main problems, I feel, is that although it's relatively easy to find a tutor/ friend to give you some help with say a guitar or fiddle, there are fewer folk around able to help you with the autoharp. That may just my experience, of course.

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:58 PM

I've seen and heard autoharps for years, and always assumed that they'd be REALLY easy to play.

I actually picked one up for the first time a month or two ago, and while playing "lap style" did not pose a problem at all, I was not able to play it while holding it against my chest in a standing position (which seems to be the normal professional-performer procedure). Couldn't see the buttons and the chord-name labels, for one thing. Also, with one hand strumming/picking and the other pressing the chord button, I couldn't figure out how to support the damn thing and not drop it on the floor. You are apparently not supposed to need a strap.

I'm sure that a few pointers and an hour or so of practice would suffice to get a beginner past these problems, but I'm reporting about how surprised I was to have any difficulty at all...

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 03:41 PM

Tom Paley showed up at Islington last week with one.
It really made me think about getting one again because it's absolutely impossible to sound crap when playing it.
Unlike everything else . . .

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: amber
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:27 PM

Could you tell me a little more about it Mouse please? ie the type, number of bars and price.

Amber

Subject: RE: buying an autoharp
From: GUEST,Mouse
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:23 PM

I bought one a couple of years ago ( used to play when I was a teenager) in the hope that it would be possible to play it with arthritis. Unfortunately it wasn't, so I would be interested in selling it.
I'm in Brighton, phone [phone].

Subject: buying an autoharp
From: amber
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:00 PM

Hi everybody

I am new to the forum. I have been going to folk clubs for years, but I have never learned how to play a musical instrument and I really want to. I have talked to different people and a friend suggested I try an autoharp. It sounds perfect for me, but I need some help. There isn't much on ebay at the moment, but I have noticed that Hobgoblin sell the Ashbury make. Has anyone got any advice, or better still an autoharp they want to sell?

Amber