Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Green Man
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 08:17 AM

I dont wear Adihash Or Them Bike trainers so have no need to go to that big advertising do they're putting on in London to promote their crap goods. So take the money for my seat at the Limp'pricks and give it to a folk org that needs it (don't we all).

Government for the people by the people (Bollocks)

Government for the people who live in London by people who live in London.

Ironic isnt it, they appoint a minister for culture who does her best to destroy music in pubs and then award a medal for services to folk to an American. Paxton has written some good songs, he's just from the wrong side of the pond.

This is just another example of the couldnt give a flying f*ck attitude of the people who supposedly run the country for ALL of us.

By eck I love a good rant. I feel much better now.
Thanks.

GM

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Sue at work
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 07:05 AM

Apparently there'll be an announcement on the Arts Council website on Friday this week with full details. All Arts Council funded organisations are expecting registered letters on Friday with the final decision on their funding.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Ruth at work
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 06:45 AM

an interesting development in today's Independent:

11th Hour Reprieve

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 06:07 PM

We cross posted there Oggie.

I couldn't agree more about funding. Anyone who turns his nose up at ANY initiative beneficial to folk arts has undoubtedly lost the plot, and needs to be ignored.

On the subject of the "three men in a pub", after 47 years of successfully running such venues, and I might immodestly add, bringing many new performers both old and young to the level of quality that has enabled them to perform on at least a semi professional basis, I confess that I have never seen a venue that fits that description even nearly.

The mere expression of such comment, however, reinforces the myth, prevalent in the non-folkie world, that this is what folk Clubs are like. It is therefore something which should not appear in our forum in relation to serious discussion.

There are a number of performers in the professional arena (many more than you might expect), who will come and do a small folk club gig for half of what they normally earn for a performance, simply because they acknowledge the part that the clubs played in their progress to professional success.

In my area some twenty years ago, I contacted the organisers of the main clubs with the idea that, if we all got together to offer top performers one week or ten day tours involving say five to eight gigs over a 60 mile radius, that we could field artists who would normally be beyond our budgets. I suggested that we do this maybe twice or three times a year.

Of the two who bothered to reply, one said I should mind my business and leave him to mind his. The other said simply "Piss off".

Unless we can achieve a better degree of support and co-operation than that, we might as well all join rock bands. So can we have some suggestions as to how we can present a strong enough front to frighten politicians?

Don T.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:40 PM

Every Olympic Games since 1952 has included an element of the Traditional Music and Dance of the host country.

We are set fair to be the first Olympic hosts to have thrown our tradition and heritage out with the trash.

We definitely need to stop arguing with each other and start telling this bunch of dimwitted philistines that there will be electoral repercussions unless they start paying attention.

The potential loss of votes is the only incentive we can apply to have them listen, and it will only work if we can get EVERY folkie in the country to deliver the message.

I don't have a great deal of hope of success, as, whenever I talk to my (ex morrisman) MP, his eyes glaze over and his brain goes into la-la-la-I can't hear you mode.

Mr. Shaw can be assured that he will lose two votes from my household.


Don T.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: oggie
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:13 PM

As the originator of the "divisive crap" I'll exercise a right to reply.

It was meant tongue in cheek (yes I do know the reference) and I actually agree with most of what Don says. But the caveats "we are supposed to be.." are also true.

I am not inventing the divisions that seem to exist, not just on Mudcat but out in the "real" world as well, they do exist and to me that is one of the problems that the folk world has with getting it's case across. If you don't believe me looks at the posts on Katy Spicer's appointment and Professionals in Folk to name but two.

To the "three men in a pub" ACE (or other) funding is irrelevant, the point I'm trying to make is that it is not. My letter to ACE and to the Minister fo Culture have alredy gone in.

Steve

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:00 PM

"we ALL know where to find HIM......."

and HER

seriously though, we can't afford to stand, or sit, around and "wait and see" anymore, the crunch is here and while I stated above about other sources of income, we can't afford to lose this one ( I was wondering just how much is going to be spent on "the entertainment" at the 2012 Olympics...betcha there'll be no folk folks performing)

Charlotte

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Fidjit
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 04:43 PM

Slightly off piste.

I tried to get the local British Council in Norway to help promote the "Folkies" that were living in the country instead of supporting only things (By this I mean all else) only sent to them from UK. They answered that they wern't interested in old traditions, but wanted to promote the newer stuff.

Chas

Derek Schofield. I've sent you an e-post via EDS Editor.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 04:34 PM

It was a pub near Wells I think...if I remember the song rightly *LOL*

Charlotte

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Nigel Spencer (cookieless)
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 04:28 PM

I think that post about three men in a pub may have been Kim Howells mixing things up... did it mention Somerset anywhere?

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 02:56 PM

"I have a vision of Hell, of the same three blokes singing the same songs and playing the same tunes, year on end, in the same pub, congratulating themselves on keeping "the music alive" and doing nothing to encourage anyone to join them.

We complain all the time (here) about lack of exposure, it's exposure that the professionals and organisations like Tradarts are giving the music and thus bringing more people into it."


I won't even dignify this piece of divisive crap with a reply. I simply post it as a prelude to some observations of my own.

It's time to take a long hard look at how others outside of the folk scene see us, and I suspect, for many here it would be an upsetting process.

OF COURSE we should all be outraged by funding cuts, and doing everything we can (within the law,.... but I'm open to argument on that) to fight them.

WHAT THE HELL does it matter whether our contribution is in pubs, clubs, or organising concerts. WE are supposed to be devotees of the folk arts.

WHAT DO WE DO when something like this occurs? We piss and moan about which part of Folk Arts will reap the benefits if we fight, and we start slagging off all who don't fit in our own little sector.

FOR GOD'S SAKE WAKE UP and see what that says about how seriously our opinions should be regarded.

The pubs and clubs are needed, because they are the affordable breeding ground for the next generation, who will have to live with the results of what we do now.

The village halls and working men's clubs, and yes, the church halls too are necessary for the inclusive community spirit they can add to the way people see folk music.

The concert halls are needed most of all, because they supply the only way in which artists who have served their apprenticeship might have just the teeniest chance of making a living.

What I am saying, I guess, is this STOP LOOKING FOR THE ENEMY ON MUDCAT, and start fighting the real enemy. we ALL know where to find HIM.......

WHITEHALL!

Otherwise we ALL lose EVERYTHING.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 11:12 AM

" is it now time to look more seriously at the alternative sources of monies?"

the short answer is, of course, yes.

There are other sources of monies besides the Arts Councils..get out there and look...the world isn't going to come to an end because one source is dwindling.Be competitive, be original in your presentations for available monies.The days are long gone when money simply dropped into the laps of those that asked for it, if those days ever existed in the first place.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: mattkeen
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:55 AM

I assumed that everybody did that?

Why wouldn't they?

Prob is, it is still competitive, but you are right there are other sources

Esmee Fairbairn Char Trust, Awards for All, Foundation for Sport and the Arts, PRS Foundation being ones that come to mind.

If you are wishing to do workshops/extending audience type work please check out whether you have a Community Foundation in your county.

http://www.communityfoundations.org.uk/
That is a link to the overall network of community foundations and from there you will be able to find out if you have a local one (you probably do) and what they might fund.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: RTim
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:38 AM

OK - The Arts Council is cutting what it gives - But thetre is money out there, from other sources.
Judging by todays news that The Heritage Fund is giving 21 m. to The Mary Rose and 10 m. has already bene given to The Cutty Sark, plus a 6 figure sum to the EFDSS for the archives
- is it now time to look more seriously at the alternative sources of monies?

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Mick Tems
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 04:42 AM

A friend of mine sits on various arts panels, and has given me information which suggests that it's not the regional arts councils' fault and heaps the blame entirely on the Labour government:

"Yes, the lack of arts funding is a huge problem. I sit on a number of the Arts Council Wales funding panels and I see the inside story. Funding is short because since the initial bonanza that was the lottery, the government has reduced its money to the Arts Councils. But now that fewer people are doing the lottery there is less lottery funding to go round and the government has not seen fit to plug the shortfall. Added to this they were happy to bid for the Olympics - having won the bid, they said that the regions would not suffer as a result of the Lottery having to find the lion's share of the cost - and then they get their business plans and financial projections absolutely wrong (how unusual) and now even more money is being sucked out of the lottery and therefore less money is available for the Arts Councils. Here in Wales the (Cardiff) Millennium Centre's business plans were clearly in error and the Welsh Assembly had to pitch in with extra funding. Fine for the Capital, but not for the rest of Wales and its arts venues. Also, in the last few years, the Local Regional Authorities (in the main) have also been reducing the amount of money they put to their own arts programmes - so I don't think you can entirely blame the Arts Councils. They are on a hiding to nothing."

In Wales, the Welsh Assembly is governed by a coalition of Labour, who form the largest party, and Plaid Cymru. Rhodri Glyn Thomas, the Plaid Cymru culture minister, told me that he is gravely concerned by arts cuts, but emphasises that there is no more money.

C'mon, Gordon - at least DO something...

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: mattkeen
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 12:54 PM

I have worked for 2 organisations that have had strategic agreements with DFES - it was a comlete ffing disaster.


Never got anything done and were tied to a ludicrus agenda

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 10:44 AM

If EFDSS are principally interested in education and outreach then what they need to do is forget the Arts Council and the DCMS and get a relationship going with the DFES. In the latest round of cuts one of the reasons cited for pulling money out of the National Student Drama Festival is that it should be paid for by Higher Education.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: mattkeen
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:06 AM

I think this is a real opportunity for the main agencies (obviously Folkarts England and EFDSS being the central 2)to work a coordinated strategy of complimentary work.
New CEO at EFDSS is a skilled arts manager and be well capable of doing this and Steve at FAE is equally accomplished - here's hoping.

Face to face/work on the ground is down to the smaller more local organisations as already mentioned and so it should be.


We can be involved as individuals in both - through membership of FAE and EFDSS and thro' practical involvement with local orgs and clubs. Its important that a coherent way forward is developed and that as many of us as possible buy inti it.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: mattkeen
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:00 AM

Quote: I was reading today about National Storytelling Week - a project which I understand that the Arts Council will not fund because it is "a minority interest". But if something is a "majority interest" why would it need funding?
Saro"


Do you KNOW that that is the reason funding was cut?
ACE would never say that, in that way. Minority interest is where they normally do fund - unless we all go to opera now.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 05:35 AM

I think it is interesting that one of the principal things that Folk Arts England is doing is developing mainly the people who are promoting and organising folk music and dance, development etc. So, AFO is intended to help festival organisers improve the quality of their events. It is about professionalisation of the organisation of the folk arts (and remember that Steve Heap always says that professionalism is a state of mind, not a state of income).

But ironically, the proposed funding cuts to Folk South West and TAPS (and the liklihood that no further folk development agencies to cover the other regions of England will be set up) immediately cuts out two organisations that benefit from FAE's work (and in turn the trickle down effect from FAE to FSW and TAPS and from them down into their regions.) Of course, TAPS and FSW might continue without ACE money, but they would need other sources of income and programmes would, I expect, be greatly cut.

Derek Schofield

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 04:48 AM

And are you telling me that opera, ballet or contemporary dance are majority interests? Yet they get funding by the bucketload.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Saro
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 03:48 AM

I was reading today about National Storytelling Week - a project which I understand that the Arts Council will not fund because it is "a minority interest". But if something is a "majority interest" why would it need funding?
Saro

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 03:06 AM

again, I am expressing my own opinions and not speaking as a representative of EFDSS, but here goes:

My understanding is that FAE is more of an advocacy organisation. It has, I believe, intervened on behalf of both TAPS and FSW (not that advocacy has helped - I've a feeling minds may well have already been made up). It also lobbies central government about awareness and visibility of folk arts.

FAE is not a funding organisation. Organisations pay an annual fee to belong. FAE organises conferences and focus days (though "talking shop" might be a harsh description) but is very much about passing on best practice. At these events, it helps to bring together emerging artists and the people who might employ them. It has an historical relationship with Shooting Roots, the organisation which delivers youth workshops at Sidmouth and Towersey, but I'm not entirely clear what that relationship is currently. It also has published in the past Direct Roots, which is a comprehensive folk directory. I believe the next edition, possibly to be published on-line, is in the pipeline.

EFDSS is in an interesting position right now. New strategic aims and objectives are in place, but the person who will decide precisely how they are implemented will be the new chief exec, Katy Spicer. I don't think I'm speaking out of turn to say that those aims have at their heart education and outreach, and speaking as an EFDSS member I'm really pleased about this. I think the work EFDSS does over the next few years will be complimentary to what FAE does. Will it be "work on the ground"? I think you need only look at the recent Take 6 and London Links projects for the answer to that. This is practical education work in both London and the regions, and I think both projects point to an important new direction for EFDSS.

The regional folk organisations are clearly responsible at present for most of the "work on the ground" in particular areas. EFDSS has the opportunity to work strategically at a national level, and in multiple regions.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: oggie
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 11:22 PM

This is where I start getting confused.

I went to the FAE website and clicked through to the "Folk Development" page and there were most of the organsiations (plus EFDSS) that we've been talking about here. So just what is the relationship between FAE and, say, TAPS. Do they fund? (in which case what's the role of ACE funding?) or is more a talking shop, "passing on best practice" etc. Who is actually doing the work on the ground? Where (if anywhere) do the EFDSS fit into this picture?

Steve

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 06:31 PM

I am not sure that challenge is the right word, but I would hope that EFDSS would seek to compliment the work of FAE. Partnership can only make both organisations stronger and more focused.

*the views expressed here are those of an individual and are not the official views of any particular organisation. Resemblance to any persons living or dead is entirely coincidental*

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 05:03 PM

I would imagine that the arts council will point to Folk Arts England and say that is where our money is going for folk arts development nationally. it will be interesting to see whether EFDSS could challenge that situation.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: oggie
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 04:48 PM

Thinking slightly laterally, I wonder if this is an area where the EFDSS should be looking at a national strategy to put in one large funding bid (to whoever) to make up the various shortfalls and develop the network further.

Steve

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 04:36 PM

Several people asked about Folkworks.
In a sense, Folkworks no longer exists.
It was a partner in the establishment of The Sage Gateshead, but does not now exist as a separate entity. The name is used to brand a number of The Sage's initiatives and the work continues, not only in The Sage itself but also elsewhere in the region. Alistair Anderson is still involved.
In that sense, folk music development in the north east is assured.

Derek Schofield

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 03:12 PM

"I propose hitting them hard -- morris, accompanied by a massed banjo orchestra. They'd stump up the cash in seconds."

Well we of the South Gloucestershire Massed Kazoo Bands will be at the fore-front.....

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Banjiman
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 01:06 PM

Ruth, Sian,

Please let us know what we can do to help once the strategy has been developed.

The Button...happy to lead the ranks of massed banjos!

Cheers

Paul

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Ruth at work
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 01:02 PM

I think Steve Heap and Folk Arts England will be involved in leading the charge - it's a question of how concerned individuals can support them.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 12:47 PM

I think Banjiman summed up some of the major arguments quite well at 05.32 today. Many of us are happily involved in trad/folk music because we were lucky enough to be teenagers at a time when trad/folk was 'pop'. People today just aren't exposed to a wide variety of musics - and there are certainly forces at work to discourage them getting involved in music that doesn't offer Big Business a lot of opportunities to make money.

(Governments prefer what they call 'long value-added chains' which means that a lot of people can make a lot of money in the process of churning out music. Trad/folk is significant because it has less of these opportunities.)

ACE's 4 'criteria' (lol) are pretty much the same as ACW's when core funding was pulled from 17 clients across Wales - which included Pontardawe Folk Festival and Welsh Folk Dance Society (and many other non-folk clients). The argument was that they were under the £20K threshold and they would still have Lottery project money to apply for ... an argument put forward at the same time as loss of Lottery revenue was being announced.

Governments say they champion diversity, and yet the musical choices available to people today are becoming narrower and narrower, and valued only as a taxable commodity. The playing field is anything but level and I see no problem in receiving public funding to keep trad/folk's profile before the public, when other art forms have both commercial and public funding doing the same for them.

Folk agencies are important (OK - I'm biased) because they can/should be taking trad/folk music beyond the 'usual suspects' and engaging with new audiences. They are also important for campaigning and advocating on behalf of the genre.

War it might be but who will be drawing up the battle plans and who will man the posts? If it isn't all worked out strategically, nothing will happen - and thundering hordes of rabble will achieve nothing. The arguments will have to be about 'community music' (rather than 'folk') and social cohesion, and cultural tourism, and heritage ... and all those other buzz words. And Mohammed will have to go to the Mountain. (trac, for instance, is doing all the Welsh party political conferences campaigning primarily against the Licencing fiasco.)

I've already emailed some of the concerned individuals and offered support but I'm going to wait til they tell me what I can do effectively within their overall strategy.

sian


sian

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: mattkeen
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 08:39 AM

Relentless Brothers (in 6/8)

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: the button
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 08:37 AM

<< Up against the barricades, brothers and sisters - this means war.>>

I propose hitting them hard -- morris, accompanied by a massed banjo orchestra. They'd stump up the cash in seconds.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: mattkeen
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 08:12 AM

Good points Dr Price and oggie

I call to arms!

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: oggie
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 07:58 AM

I have a vision of Hell, of the same three blokes singing the same songs and playing the same tunes, year on end, in the same pub, congratulating themselves on keeping "the music alive" and doing nothing to encourage anyone to join them.

We complain all the time (here) about lack of exposure, it's exposure that the professionals and organisations like Tradarts are giving the music and thus bringing more people into it.

Across the board there are small Arts groups who do more to promote their area of interest than any of the big "National" companies and they are almost all being squeezed. The ACE are following their own agenda (I suspect also trying to free up money for the "Cultural Olyompics") and doing untold damage to the grassroots of the arts.

Steve Ogden

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Mick Tems
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 07:17 AM

Just now, a Mudcat thread with appalling news of the Wyeside Arts Centre in Builth Wells, Powys, being forced to close sank without trace. Powys County Council had cut the centre's funding, and Arts Council Wales refused to help. Wyeside was efficiently managed and provided a scintillating events diary. In a rural area, it was crucially vital for the folk and world music and for the arts.

Brown's despicable philistine government is syphoning off arts funds to pay for the notoriously expensive 2012 London Olympics NOW. The Wyeside closure was only only the tip of the iceberg: this week I had a desperate plea from Peter Dobbins, organiser of Music In The Church In Aust (the village near the original Severn Bridge in Gloucestershire) saying that the Arts Council was planning a bloody cull affecting 200 organisations across England, and had slashed funding to the Early Music Network, which provides a lifeline to Music In The Church In Aust. Folk South West and Roger Watson's Tradarts received the same treatment.

You can bet that Kim Howells, MP for Pontypridd and former Minister of Culture (!!) who drafted the mindless and hateful Licensing Act, will be laughing like a drain. Up against the barricades, brothers and sisters - this means war.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Ruth at work
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 07:16 AM

"This is the kind of lunacy that makes the rest of the music and arts world scratch their heads at some of the attitudes prevalent in the folk world."

Indeed.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Banjiman
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 07:15 AM

Nickp....some people would say that your configuration of sitting and picking would actually sound better than mine......even if somewhat uncomfortable!

Fair point about not trusting the government, mine was really a point about the need to try and influence any funding decisions made.

Paul

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 07:09 AM

feel that the "professional folkies" who tour the circuit on a regular basis have done more harm than good to the tradition.

Virtually every folk professional I have ever met in the last forty years - from old established ones to modern ones - has taken time out on a non-paid basis to help some young person along the way.

Now come back on here and justify what you said and sign your name.

Dave Eyre

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Banjiman
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 06:59 AM

Banjoman (DEFINITELY not to be confused with me!)....my kids (6 & 8) are definitely inspired by the young "professional" folkies....far more (unfortunately) than they are inspired by their Mum & Dad (who play at home, in pubs and as semi-pros) to pick up their fiddles and play. They were marginally impressed by their Mum playing on the main stage at Saltburn Folk Fest....but this just underlines the point.

It is something about the glamour of young people and bright lights on big stages that appeals to youngsters....it definitely makes them practice harder (playing trad as well as other tunes) as well as keeping them interested..... again, I think this is probably aspirational on their part, they want to believe that they can be part of this (apparently!) glamorous lifestyle.

I use this as an example of the "professionals" encouraging young people.....do you have any examples (or other proof) to back up your claim that "the "professional folkies" who tour the circuit on a regular basis have done more harm than good to the tradition "

Paul

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: mattkeen
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 06:41 AM

English traditional folk music IS world music - its just from that part of the world called England. They only consider funding applications that are actually sent to them. What they fund has a direct correlation with what we apply for.


I think that you are truly barking if you really believe that professionals like Chris Wood, Martin Carthy (& family,), Tim Van Eyken, John Kirkpatrick, Hugh Lupton, Nancy and Sandra Kerr, Martin Simpson, Coope Boyes and Simpson, and 100's of others have done more harm than good. Either in the direct experience they offer or in bringing more people in to sing, play and dance for themselves. This is the kind of lunacy that makes the rest of the music and arts world scratch their heads at some of the attitudes prevalent in the folk world.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: banjoman
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 06:30 AM

Not to be confused with banjiman - I am constantly writing to our local MP about this and other related issues.
Its about time somebody took the bull by the horns and really made a loud noise about what our tradition is - its not about world music or ballet or opera, which all seem to get plenty of government funding, but about singing and dancing mainly by non professional people. I feel that the "professional folkies" who tour the circuit on a regular basis have done more harm than good to the tradition. Unfortunately, I think that some of the currently AC funded bodies pay too much attention to world music at the expense of our tradition
I play music for lots of reasons, including my own pleasure, but because I believe that it is important to keep up the tradition of making music for all to enjoy. We are in great danger of becoming a society where the children think that music is something that comes out of a little box with no thought for its production.
Leep playing(singing)

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: nickp
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 06:19 AM

Well said Banjiman - although I had a sudden dyslexic moment and thought you were sitting on your banjo and picking your...

I pretty well agree with most of what you said but I'd like to add to point 1 - I don't trust the market ... but I trust the government even less.

I have a suspicion that olympics or not, there'll be less money on the table. Ho hum.

Nick

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: mattkeen
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 05:42 AM

An example -
Loughborough Folk Festival (admittedly including professionals in concert "wash ur mouth out scum")BUT the line up is fantastically good, there are LOADS of sessions and singarounds included as well as top quality participatory workshops.

Guess what, Arts Council England money is funding it - along with other sounrces including the local council

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Banjiman
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 05:32 AM

Having given this some thought it seems to me that:

1/ If government funding is removed from "folk" events you end up trusting the market to support the "professional" end of the folk continuum. Do you trust the market?

2/ However jealous of / unimpressed with/ ideologically opposed to the "professional" end of the spectrum you are it undoubtedly provides a focus for and an access point to traditional and/or folk music for a lot of people.

3/ Large (and small) events require someone to take some financial risk, if government funding can be used to underwrite/ remove some of this risk it can only be a positive thing. I would rather see my taxes used for this than supporting opera (or paying for WMDs!). I can't see the Olympics as a totally bad thing though.

4/ Some undeserving individuals will take advantage and prosper from this government funding....but it is very difficult in any system/process to completely manage out abuse.

Surely the point here is that this funding allows people to have a good time (maybe not Richard Bridge....but I fear he is probably in a minority....even of folkies, sorry Richard)whilst engaging in a pretty harmless activity and possibly helping to preserve part of our heritage....money well spent in my book.

I enjoy both sitting on my arse in the pub picking my banjo (sorry not all that trad) with others engaging in similar musical endeavors.... often dreaming of the day when I could give up the day job...i.e get paid a living wage for my/our musical endeavors (not likely but a nice dream!)....But I also enjoy watching and listening to folky style excellence which I'm not too unhappy about subsidising through my taxes.....helps sustain the dream!

I'm probably not atypical.

Paul

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Ruth at work
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 05:19 AM

Guest above is me (quelle surprise...)

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 05:19 AM

I should probably have added that, in addition to supporting the development of young artists, regional folk development organisations do huge amounts of schools and community work, introducing young people and other new audinces to folk.

They also bring folk into new contexts: Wren Trust's "nice Warm Socks" project uses folk music as a tool for working with children with special needs - it was National Lottery funded.

There are all kinds of things going on out there, Richard Bridge - it's about much more than concerts.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: mattkeen
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 04:53 AM

Nothing is stopping me Richard

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 07:35 PM

As you're being deliberately obtuse, Richard Bridge, I'll just reiterate what I posted earlier concerning what the Arts Councl supports:

"Folk South West and TAPS (Traditional Arts Projects) have been Arts Council Regularly Funded Organisations for many years, so look on their websites and see what they've been doing all this time, for a start. SEFAN has, I believe, received Arts Council funding in the past, as has the Wren Trust, and Folkworks. If you go to the websites for any of these regional organisations (all Googlable) you'll see what kind of work is under threat. These organisations have supported some of our finest young musicians and singers in their development. Marilyn Tucker from Wren Trust points out that Jim Causley first heard a folk song at one of their events. He's not alone: many of the "bright young things" of folk will have had their first experiences of traditional music and dance through the work of these agencies.

Many festival organisations recieve bits of ACE funding, usually for their community work. My festival/venue has received ACE subsidy for outreach work in folk music and dance, which is ongoing in our community.

The Rural Touring Networks are subsidised regional schemes which bring the arts into rural communities, and as a result many folk artists have played village halls and community centres around the country: John Kirkpatrick, Chris Wood, etc. Not to mention the various ceilidhs run under the scheme. Naturally, lovcal promoters could never afford to bring these acts/events in if they weren't subsidised."

I, too, think the post Matt refers to was pertinent. Sit in your pubs and make your music, by all means, but without people to spread te word there will be fewer and fewer of you as the years go on.

But somehow I suspect you probably like it that way.