Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?

Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 08 - 03:28 AM
Jack Blandiver 01 Feb 08 - 04:33 AM
Geoff the Duck 01 Feb 08 - 04:58 AM
Geoff the Duck 01 Feb 08 - 05:35 AM
GUEST,Dazbo 01 Feb 08 - 05:45 AM
GUEST,PMB 01 Feb 08 - 08:01 AM
John MacKenzie 01 Feb 08 - 09:27 AM
Rapparee 01 Feb 08 - 09:39 AM
PoppaGator 01 Feb 08 - 11:05 AM
Peace 01 Feb 08 - 11:08 AM
Bill D 01 Feb 08 - 11:11 AM
Peace 01 Feb 08 - 11:12 AM
Bill D 01 Feb 08 - 11:13 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 08 - 11:14 AM
George Papavgeris 01 Feb 08 - 12:06 PM
Wesley S 01 Feb 08 - 12:14 PM
MMario 01 Feb 08 - 12:23 PM
My guru always said 02 Feb 08 - 04:57 AM
Mr Red 02 Feb 08 - 05:27 AM
GUEST,Ian cookieless 02 Feb 08 - 07:45 AM
GUEST,Brigid 02 Feb 08 - 08:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Feb 08 - 08:51 AM
Charley Noble 02 Feb 08 - 01:49 PM
Liz the Squeak 03 Feb 08 - 05:02 AM
Liz the Squeak 03 Feb 08 - 05:02 AM
GUEST 03 Feb 08 - 06:16 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 Feb 08 - 08:13 AM
Nick E 03 Feb 08 - 10:12 AM
s&r 03 Feb 08 - 01:27 PM
greg stephens 03 Feb 08 - 01:44 PM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 02 Sep 17 - 06:03 PM
JennieG 02 Sep 17 - 08:29 PM
Nigel Parsons 03 Sep 17 - 01:10 PM
JennieG 04 Sep 17 - 08:19 AM
Nigel Parsons 04 Sep 17 - 08:57 AM
Roger the Skiffler 04 Sep 17 - 09:16 AM
JennieG 04 Sep 17 - 05:38 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 04 Sep 17 - 08:48 PM
JennieG 05 Sep 17 - 02:09 AM
Nigel Parsons 05 Sep 17 - 06:05 AM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:







Subject: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 03:28 AM

I know the formula for calculating Easter. I also know that the Western and Eastern Christian churches follow different calenders. What I can't figure out is how come sometimes Easters co-incide and yet this year there is a HUGE gap. Western = 23 March, Eastern = 27 April - 5 weeks! Anyone care to explain (in easy terms!)

Cheers

Dave


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 04:33 AM

Certainly not in easy terms, Dave - but if you Google Easter Calculation, you'll find shed loads of information to wade through. Have fun!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 04:58 AM

Who cares why. Just celebrate them both!
Quack!
GtD.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 05:35 AM

Anyway, we only celebrate the one and it'll be almost a year between ours this time round.
Quack!
GtD.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: GUEST,Dazbo
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 05:45 AM

If I recall correctly Easter is based on the moon's state on or after a calendar date. Occasionally this moon state coincides with each other but it could be that this moon state falls between the same day on each calendar and so ends up about a month apart.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 08:01 AM

It's the last remnant of the Babylonian lunar calendar in the west. It was a lunisolar year- that is, one in which the months are based on the moon. But because the lunations don't go evenly into the year (there's about 11 days left over), leap- months are added at intervals of 2 or 3 years to bring it back in step. The Jews adopted this system during their exile, and as it was used to calculate the Passover, it is used for Easter.

The early Christian Church adopted it for Easter- I'm not sure why, as all saint's days, Christmas etc. are fixed to the Roman (Julian) calendar- but changed the calculation when one pope realised that Christians and Jews were celebrating on the same day- you can't have that!

The change had unforeseen consequences when Rome sent missionaries to England. Parts of England had been christianised by Irish missionaries, but their church had been isolated from Roman influence for over a hundred years, and they hadn't heard about the change. So Irish converted Christians celebrated Easter at different times from Roman converts. Because of the huge range of dates, one set could have just finished their pancakes when the other lot were munching chocolate eggs. This combined with the fact that, when the British Church had last been seen just after the fall of Roman Britain, it had been much influenced by the Pelagian heresy (don't bother to ask). The Romans took the Easter difference as evidence of heresy, and set out to remove the Celts. The Synod of Whitby (which wasn't at Whitby because Whitby hadn't been invented then) and a bit of realpolitik saw the tolerant Celts banished back to Ireland in disgrace, leaving behind only their script and the tradition of manuscript illumination .

Now wouldn't it be a lot more sensible if we could settle on a civil Easter, around the equinox or just after, and allow the Christians to celebrate their religious feast at the correct but inconvenient date, just as Moslems live with a moving Ramadan, Hindus with Diwali and so on?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 09:27 AM

Try to be in Greece at Easter, it's my favourite time to be there.
G


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 09:39 AM

It's tied to the calculation for Passover (the Resurrection occurred three days after the Crucifixion, which was held immediately after the Last Supper, which was the Passover supper).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 11:05 AM

This year Easter is almost as early as possible. I know this mostly because Mardi Gras is on a very early date ~ February 5, next Tuesday.

Mardi Gras (Fat Tuesday) is the last day before Lent, which is a 40-day period before Easter. Forty days not counting Sundays, that is...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 11:08 AM

I have nightmare visions at Easter time. I used to work in a fertility clinic and one year they hid all the eggs. Talk about yer total panic.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 11:11 AM

-------------------------------------------------------------
Easter Day Facts
-------------------------------------------------------------
1. Easter Day in the Gregorian calendar can occur as early as
   March 22 and as late as April 25. Such events are uncommon.

2. Between the years 1583 and 9999, it occurs on March 22 in:

   1598 1693 1761 1818 2285 2353 2437 2505 2972 3029
   3401 3496 3564 3648 3716 4308 5299 5671 6043 6195
   6263 6415 6635 6703 6798 6882 6950 7322 7474 7542
   7637 7789 7914 8161 8533 8685 8753 8848 8905 9125
   9220 9372 9440 9812 9964

3. Between the same years, it occurs on April 25 in:

   1666 1734 1886 1943 2038 2190 2258 2326 2410 2573
   2630 2782 2877 2945 3002 3097 3154 3249 3306 3469
   3537 3621 3784 3841 3993 4088 4156 4224 4376 4528
   4680 4748 4900 5120 6483 6771 6855 6923 7075 7227
   7390 7447 7515 7610 7762 7819 7982 8066 8134 8286
   8343 8438 8506 8658 8726 8821 8973 9030 9193 9288
   9345 9413 9565 9660 9717 9880 9937

4. The cycle of Easter dates is 5,700,000 years long!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Peace
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 11:12 AM

. . . and then the rabbit will pop out of its hole in the ground, and if he doesn't see the sun . . . .


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 11:13 AM

(I copied that from this program


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 11:14 AM

Ahhhh, I think I have it! The calculation is that Eater is the first Sunday after the first full moon on or after the vernal equinox. So...

If in the Western calandar we have ratified the vernal equinox as Mar 20 or 21 then, as the full moon falls on Mar 22, Easter is very early. If I am right then the Vernal equinox in the Easter calendar must be flagged as a few days later - Meaning it misses the full moon. The next full moon is April 20 so, the Sunday after is the 27th!

Is that right?

Cheers

Dave


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 12:06 PM

I know it's Greek Easter from the smells:

Vinegar and onionskins to dye the Easter eggs on Wednesday.
Vanilla and pure butter to make the Tsoureki (cake) on Thursday.
The smell of fields full of red poppies on the Friday, when no cooking is allowed.
The dill that goes into the Magiritsa soup Saturday evening.
The beeswax from the candles burning on the way to the church on Saturday before midnight.
The firecracker smells at midnight on Saturday.
The charcoal from thousands of fire pits in the countryside, early on Sunday morning.
The "knissa" (smoke from burning fat) from the roasting of the lambs on the spit.
But most of all, the retsina that we would be drinking.

If I were there.

F*ck...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 12:14 PM

George - There's always Tarpon Springs Florida. It's the closest thing to being in Greece in the USA.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: MMario
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 12:23 PM

The true reason is that Easters are very territorial and need to be seperated by almost a year to prevent fighting; however mated pairs may be found in quite close proximity - though they will wander a short way from each other at other times.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: My guru always said
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:57 AM

I just wish it were a little later this year so the weather would warm up a little. We'll have quite a few people camping in tents in our garden this Easter & it looks like it could be a cold one! Egg hunt, now there's an idea.....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:27 AM

Just in case it hasn't been said explicitly for those who don't know. The UK follows this.

the first Sunday after the the first full moon ON or AFTER the vernal equinox.

And I always thought an equinox was the sound of a BANJO in a session.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:45 AM

Sorry to be pedantic, Rapaire, but the resurrection occurred not three days after the crucifixion, but two days after - Friday and Sunday. The oft-used biblical phrase for the resurrection (and other events, but that's a different question), "on the third day", considers Friday as one, whereas we would consider Friday to be zero.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: GUEST,Brigid
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:05 AM

Can Easter ever be before St Patrick's Day, or has it ever been?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:51 AM

No it can't, Brigid. Easter has to be after the vernal equinox - Three or fours days after the feast of St Patrick. The earliest it can be is the 21st - Provided that the equinox is the 20th, on a Saturday with a full moon!

I always reckoned St Pats day was a good break from lent for the good Catholic Irish - this year however it is on the Monday of holy week - Doesn't work as a mid-lent break in this case! :-(

Cheers

Dave


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 01:49 PM

Thanks for clarifying this.

Now what do chocolate bunnies and peeps have to do with Easter, and when did they become such an important part of the ritual? Did the Pope issue an edict?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 05:02 AM

It's not a rabbit, or a bunny, but a hare. Even the name Easter isn't Christian... it's allegedly from an old festival of rebirth called Eostre, where the ancient Saxons/Brits celebrated the return of life, spring and all that.

Being a rebirth and fertility festival, a day near the vernal equinox was chosen as best to celebrate the Annunciation - where Mary is told by Gabriel she is to bear the son of God. This day is March 25th, Lady Day and one of the Quarter days when new contracts and rents were agreed. Add 9 months to March 25th and you get December 25th, a nice convenient set of non-Christian festivals already waiting to be converted into Christmas.

In my church, we have a fairly nasty window (circa 1894) in the east wall, that has a five petalled daisy in the top roundel (the rest is clear glass with ultramarine blue border), in pale, insipid Victorian coloured glass. From the inside, this is obscured by a large white canvas screen that's pierced with little triangles to let the light in.

One Easter dawn service, as the vicar related it to me, he looked up at the congregation and all he could see was row upon row of smiling faces. 'Ah', thinks he, 'I've really hit a chord here, how wonderful, my message is reaching people.' At breakfast afterwards, he commented how we'd all looked so engrossed in his sermon.

'Oh no', says his faithful Parish Warden, 'we were watching the screen behind you. As the sun rose, it projected a beautiful coloured flower onto the screen which came to rest just above your head!'


LTS
















Yes, you guessed it, I was that faithful Parish Warden!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 05:02 AM

It's not a rabbit, or a bunny, but a hare. Even the name Easter isn't Christian... it's allegedly from an old festival of rebirth called Eostre, where the ancient Saxons/Brits celebrated the return of life, spring and all that.

Being a rebirth and fertility festival, a day near the vernal equinox was chosen as best to celebrate the Annunciation - where Mary is told by Gabriel she is to bear the son of God. This day is March 25th, Lady Day and one of the Quarter days when new contracts and rents were agreed. Add 9 months to March 25th and you get December 25th, a nice convenient set of non-Christian festivals already waiting to be converted into Christmas.

In my church, we have a fairly nasty window (circa 1894) in the east wall, that has a five petalled daisy in the top roundel (the rest is clear glass with ultramarine blue border), in pale, insipid Victorian coloured glass. From the inside, this is obscured by a large white canvas screen that's pierced with little triangles to let the light in.

One Easter dawn service, as the vicar related it to me, he looked up at the congregation and all he could see was row upon row of smiling faces. 'Ah', thinks he, 'I've really hit a chord here, how wonderful, my message is reaching people.' At breakfast afterwards, he commented how we'd all looked so engrossed in his sermon.

'Oh no', says his faithful Parish Warden, 'we were watching the screen behind you. As the sun rose, it projected a beautiful coloured flower onto the screen which came to rest just above your head!'


LTS
















Yes, you guessed it, I was that faithful Parish Warden!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 06:16 AM

I remember trying to work this out some time ago: the conclusion I came to was that the full moon in the equation is not an actual full moon as you see it but an imaginary one somewhere in secret tables kept by the church authorities.

Stu


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 08:13 AM

So the next question is...

IF (big if!) I am right about it being because the Eastern and Western vernal equinoxes are on different dates - How come? Surely, by definition, equinox has to be the day when day and night are of an equal length. That must fall on the same day the world over. Which one of us is right?

Cheers

Dave


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Nick E
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 10:12 AM

In answer to an earlier question. As Jesus was crucified, died, was buried and rose again according to the scriptures well before St. Patrick was born and St. Patrick's day was not designated until well after he (St. Pat) died, Yes Easter , Has and Did Many Times Come Before St. Patrick's Day.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: s&r
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 01:27 PM

Here it is ...

Stu


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: greg stephens
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 01:44 PM

The Eastern and Western vernal equinoxes are indeed on different days this year, as they are calculated by a different formula, neither of which are the same as the observable astronomical equinox. So that's why the Easter dates are sometimes different for different churches.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 06:03 PM

The official, church-equinox in the Gregorian calendar is on March 21. The official equinox in the Julian calendar is also on March 21, which at present corresponds to April 3 Gregorian.

Besides this 13-day difference in the solar calendar, the lunar calendars are out of phase as well. The Gregorian lunar calendar approximates the age of the moon fairly well--today is the 11th day of the moon in the Gregorian lunar calendar--while the Julian lunar calendar is about 4 days behind the moon. Today, September 10, 2017, is only the 7th day of the moon according to the Julian lunar calendar.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: JennieG
Date: 02 Sep 17 - 08:29 PM

Next year, 2018, Easter Sunday is on 1st April.

I wonder if the Easter or the April Fool's Day celebration will win?

Can just imagine the scenes in church now......the sermon delivered backwards, the clergyperson wearing the wrong colour frock......

You can tell I'm not a churchgoer, can't you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Sep 17 - 01:10 PM

Thanks for those thoughts, Jennie.
I am a regular churchgoer, but couldn't remember Easter & All Fools coinciding before.
I thought it strange & checked the calendar. The last time was 1956, when I was only one year old, so wouldn't remember it.

I wonder what we can set up for the choir next year?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: JennieG
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 08:19 AM

Well, Nigel, you have several months to think of something......perhaps the words of one hymn sung to the tune of another?

No, that might not work because many of the tunes are interchangeable anyway.

The seed is planted.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 08:57 AM

The seed is indeed planted.
A popular Easter hymn is "Now the green blade rises"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 09:16 AM

More ideas:Clergy to wear vestments backwards. Tell the congregation the world ends at midday. Encourage them to crack eggs together in the Orthodox fashion but don't boil them first...

RtS
(My Lay Minister wife is not impressed!)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: JennieG
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 05:38 PM

I like the way you think, Roger!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 08:48 PM

If people attend a sunrise service to observe Easter, do they attend a sunset service to observe Wester?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: JennieG
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 02:09 AM

A very valid question, BWL, and one worth pondering deeply.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Why the huge gap between Easters?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 06:05 AM

There were two sun worshippers who sat up all night wondering what happened to the sun when it went down . . .


Suddenly it dawned on them :)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 7 April 7:33 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.