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Buddy Holly - folk singer

Related threads:
Review: Buddy Holly 60th anniversary of death (19)
Review: Buddy holly - at last! (14)
Lyr/Chords Req: Peggy Sue (Buddy Holly) (3)


Sir Roger de Beverley 02 Feb 08 - 06:30 AM
Lowden Jameswright 02 Feb 08 - 06:51 AM
GUEST,wordy 02 Feb 08 - 07:11 AM
catspaw49 02 Feb 08 - 07:32 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Feb 08 - 08:33 AM
number 6 02 Feb 08 - 08:44 AM
David C. Carter 02 Feb 08 - 08:54 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 02 Feb 08 - 09:39 AM
bankley 02 Feb 08 - 10:26 AM
Bat Goddess 02 Feb 08 - 01:20 PM
The Sandman 03 Feb 08 - 05:36 AM
Dave Hanson 03 Feb 08 - 05:59 AM
GUEST,Acorn4 03 Feb 08 - 06:07 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 03 Feb 08 - 08:00 AM
Cuddles 03 Feb 08 - 08:04 AM
NormanD 03 Feb 08 - 10:52 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 03 Feb 08 - 11:35 AM
Peace 03 Feb 08 - 11:56 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 04 Feb 08 - 04:49 PM
GUEST,wordy 04 Feb 08 - 05:57 PM
Les from Hull 04 Feb 08 - 06:30 PM
The Sandman 04 Feb 08 - 06:50 PM
Big Al Whittle 05 Feb 08 - 02:32 PM
The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) 05 Feb 08 - 02:44 PM
The Sandman 05 Feb 08 - 05:59 PM
The Sandman 05 Feb 08 - 06:11 PM
Dave Hanson 06 Feb 08 - 03:08 AM
The Sandman 06 Feb 08 - 04:47 AM
Cuddles 06 Feb 08 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,Mr Red 06 Feb 08 - 08:36 AM
The Sandman 06 Feb 08 - 09:54 AM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice 06 Feb 08 - 11:12 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 06 Feb 08 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Edthefolkie 06 Feb 08 - 12:00 PM
NormanD 06 Feb 08 - 12:27 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 06 Feb 08 - 02:41 PM
NormanD 06 Feb 08 - 02:49 PM
bradfordian 26 Jan 09 - 07:08 AM
GUEST,Paul Steele 26 Jan 09 - 07:38 AM
Phil Edwards 26 Jan 09 - 09:29 AM
NormanD 26 Jan 09 - 09:32 AM
bankley 26 Jan 09 - 11:13 AM
GUEST,Mr Yeahbut 26 Jan 09 - 11:26 AM
GUEST,Mr Yeahbut 26 Jan 09 - 11:53 AM
GUEST,LANZAROTE BIOY 26 Jan 09 - 11:55 AM
Darowyn 27 Jan 09 - 04:42 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 27 Jan 09 - 01:04 PM
NormanD 27 Jan 09 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 27 Jan 09 - 05:36 PM
NormanD 28 Jan 09 - 05:26 AM
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Subject: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:30 AM

It is 49 years ago tomorrow (Feb. 3rd)since "the day the music died" and I have been listening to a couple of recordings that I knew existed but had never heard before yesterday:

Carolyn Hester backed by Buddy holly on acoustic guitar singing "Wreck of the Old 97" and "Scarlet Ribbons" - both recorded in 1957. The train song also has harmonica on it.

Given the a lot of folkies of my generation are also Holly freaks perhaps there is a case for Holly as a folk singer (see Lennon thread).

Roger


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:51 AM

Had he lived he would have become the grand old man of rock, pop, folk, blues, old time, jazz, ragtime, country etc etc etc and a host of other genres not yet( and never to be) invented. He was a true innovator. Musicians should re-visit his songs and re-work them in different forms; folkie versions of many of Buddy's songs work like a charm.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:11 AM

He had just moved to Greenwich Village and was visiting the jazz clubs. No doubt he would have been there for the folk revival and would have become involved in some way or other.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:32 AM

Lowden Jameswright --- I couldn't agree more although I'm sure you'll probably get quite a bit. There's no telling where he'd have gone sadly, but be assured there was a lot more that could have been.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:33 AM

Lowden, right as usual mate! A man who was before his time and, sadly, left us before his time. As others say, the best was yet to come. But oh, those memories! Aaaaaaahh!


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: number 6
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:44 AM

I can't help agree with Lowden's post also.

Though not a great fan of Holly, I do get anxious of what could have evolved when I hear his music.

biLL


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: David C. Carter
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:54 AM

I do"Think it Over",Guitar and mouth harp,slowed down completely.Been doing it for a good few years now.I did it in a folk club once and a guy came up after, and said that he'd never heard that"Dylan song"before!
I think he brought a certain dignity to rock music.


David


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 09:39 AM

He was brought up in a country tradition and played mandolin and tenor banjo as well as guitar - there are several home recordings of him playing manolin and acoustic guitar although I don't know of any with him on banjo.

No doubt traditionalists of all genres wouldn't agree but I think that his stuff took folk/country styles and moved rock and roll on into something much more subtle and interesting.

Is it not odd, though, that such a major artist still does not have a complete, digitally remastered box set and that much of his early stuff and the late acoustic demos can only be found in overdubbed versions. I try to get as much as I can but have to buy many duplicates in order to get at the rarities on a complex set of random issues on several different labels. The best collection was the UK issue six album vinyl set from the 1980s that had most of the apartment tape on it undubbed, but that has never been repeated on CD. There have been some recent CD releases that have covered some of the missing stuff but they are, as yet, incomplete.

Maybe there will be an effort made for the 50th anniversary next year.

R


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: bankley
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 10:26 AM

"Maybe, Baby"


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 01:20 PM

I love to sing Buddy Holly songs, there ar such wonderful opportunities for harmonies as well. I was a fairly precocious listening to pop music at the time (9 years old), but he still got extensive airplay in the '60s and his songs were covered, too, by the bands of the guys I dated.

I need to refresh my memory on "Heartbeat", "Oh, Boy" and a few others and start singing them again. (Don't panic, Tom; not at trad venues!)

Linn


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 05:36 AM

good pop songs,and a good pop singer.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 05:59 AM

Steeleye Spans version of ' Rave On ' sure sounds like folk music to me.

eric


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,Acorn4
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 06:07 AM

It was pointed out on Mick Smith's country show last week that Buddy Holly was only a professional musician for eighteen months - makes the achievement even more astounding.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 08:00 AM

That'll be the day hit number one in the UK in late September 1957, The Crickets toured the UK in March 1958 and Holly was killed on February 3rd 1959 - so, not even eighteen months. Possible even more astounding considering his impact since is that he was only 22 when he died

R


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Cuddles
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 08:04 AM

Heavens! Do you know that I never realised Buddy was so young when he died. He wrote some cracking songs though, that's for sure. I recall seeing the musical 'Buddy' ages back now and I came out very impressed with his music.

I'm a bit younger than the Buddy Generation I should point out, hence my lack of knowledge about his age.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: NormanD
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 10:52 AM

There are a couple of strictly acoustic Buddy songs I know of: "Well All Right", and "You're The One". Just him and his guitar (maybe a bit of box slapping on the latter) - both lovely songs. There have been a few posthumous releases of his early acoustic demos of some of his songs, like "Peggy Sue Got Married", again just him + guitar, and again all wonderful.

Texan Carolyn Hester was produced by Norman Petty, Buddy's producer/manager, on her first recordings. I've never heard the songs Sir Roger mentions in his first post: "Wreck of the Old 97" and "Scarlet Ribbons". I know there were some recorded with BH on acoustic, but I thought they were never released, and now missing presumed gone. Carolyn Hester has said as much herself in interviews. Sir Roger, could you please tell me more details of these tracks, maybe in a PM unless you'd like to share more on the thread?

Thanks
Norman


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 11:35 AM

Norman

There are two new CD releases from late 2007:

One has all of his recordings from 1956 on 2 CDs and is called "Hollybilly". The other has all of his recordings from 1957 on 3 CDs and is called "Not Fade Away". both are from El Toro records but you can see the track listings from any of the on-line record shops. The cheapest that I've found for these is HMV on-line.

When I say all of his recordings it includes interviews, live show recordings and demos and the quality is very variable. The two carolyn Hester tracks are on the 1957 recordings.

Roger


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Peace
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 11:56 AM

IMO, we could sure use him and his music these days. I guess Bill and his generation could have, too.

THE WORLD IS TOO MUCH WITH US

The world is too much with us; late and soon,
Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers:
Little we see in Nature that is ours;
We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon!
The Sea that bares her bosom to the moon;
The winds that will be howling at all hours,
And are up-gathered now like sleeping flowers;
For this, for everything, we are out of tune;
It moves us not.--Great God! I'd rather be
A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn;
So might I, standing on this pleasant lea,
Have glimpses that would make me less forlorn;
Have sight of Proteus rising from the sea;
Or hear old Triton blow his wreathed horn.

William Wordsworth


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 04 Feb 08 - 04:49 PM

If anyone knows of a digital source of the apartment tapes - the tape left behind in his New York apartment when he went on the final tour I'd like to know, These were acoustic guitar and vocal demos of new songs and some covers and have been released in several overdubbed versions but, as far as I know, were only issued undubbed on vinyl in the UK and this was incomplete. I've never been able to find them on CD.

Songs on it include Peggy Sue Got Married, What To Do, Learning The Game, That Makes It Tough, Crying Waiting Hoping.

R


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 04 Feb 08 - 05:57 PM

I think "learning the game" is a perfect gem, both lyrically and melodically and shows us what we have missed.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 Feb 08 - 06:30 PM

Sandy Denny did a wonderful version of Learning the Game - so it must be a folk song!


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Feb 08 - 06:50 PM

Songs on it include Peggy Sue Got Married, What To Do, Learning The Game, That Makes It Tough, Crying Waiting Hoping.
all love songs,would it be accurate to describe him as a Love Singer.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 02:32 PM

What he sang about is largely unimportant. He took two strains of ethnic American music - R and B/ Country. And quite successfully fused them. Rather like Ashley Hutchings did with English folk music and rock music.

Buddy Holly is a big hitter - his influence was bigger than Ashley's. You can't pretend you never heard Buddy Holly. If you try to exclude his music from your own - you make you make your own music odd sounding and perverse. because Buddy and his contemporaries set the trend - they got into everybody's soul.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 02:44 PM

Heck.... if you can folkify (is there such a word?) Duane Eddy, which The Ashley Hutchings Big Beat Combo did on their record Twangin' n' A-Traddin' (listen to Simon Care's melodeon playing on The Duane Eddy Medley), what's stopping Buddy Holly's music getting into the rural picture?

Charlotte (the boogy-woogy piano girl from Company C)


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 05:59 PM

From: weelittledrummer - PM
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 02:32 PM

What he sang about is largely unimportant.
you said it.
I agree with you pleasant sound,lyrics of no importance.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 06:11 PM

Sorry WlD, Buddy Holly, has had no influence upon me.
PeteSeeger, yes Burl Ives,Harry Cox,but Buddy Holly no.
I dont dislike him,but influence me no ,AndyCaven likes him though a I can Honestly say,I dont think I can hear his influence in my music.checkout my website and please tell me if I am wrong.http://www.dickmiles.com


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 03:08 AM

I once saw Andy Caven in a folk club, more of a pop singer than folk.

eric


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 04:47 AM

good, at what he did though.
In fact when I ran a folk club,he was requested, so I booked him[twice I think].
as an organiser I worked on the principle,that I booked certain amount of that which I liked,and acertain amount of people requested by members,so we ende up with a broad spectrum ,from Andy Caven to John and Julia Clifford.
I would not have booked JohnLennon/Britney Spears impersonators,we all have our individual boundaries that are purely subjective,but as an organiser that is one of the perks of the job.
in the end it is organisers who decide who gets the work.the organisers have to be aware of their audience,and there are different kinds of folk audiences.Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Cuddles
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 08:20 AM

"I would not have booked JohnLennon/Britney Spears impersonators,we all have our individual boundaries that are purely subjective,but as an organiser that is one of the perks of the job..."

Oh well, if you don't have Britney Wannabees at your club I ain't comin'! ;-)

"..in the end it is organisers who decide who gets the work.the organisers have to be aware of their audience,and there are different kinds of folk audiences.Dick Miles"

Erm, forgive me, but that doth sound somewhat controlling of people's musical careers.

YOU 'decide' who gets the work?

I guess that no musician would dare cross those who feel that way, for if they refused to feed the somewhat over-inflated egos of people who have the 'I'm in charge!' attitude they are simply crossed off the list.....as in....

"Here endeth your musical career mate!"

And THAT is why some folk clubs are dying on their feet.

Cuddles


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 08:36 AM

given enough time I think Holly's own songs will sit comfortably in the folk genre. but it may take another 49 years


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 09:54 AM

Cuddles, I stopped running a folkclub in 1987.,so dont blame me
Cuddles,I have been professional folksinger since 1976,and that is the way it has always been,and its the same with festivals,organisers decide who is booked.
your logic is flawed ,because festivals are flourishing.
The Snail,who has been pursuing me beligerently of late ,helps to organise a folk club in Lewes.
Lewes has two folk clubs,now I have played one of these clubs several times in the in past,but the Snail never bothered to turn up when I played these clubs,if he had he would know what kind of modern songs I sing,and that I always introduce modernsongs as a modern song written by then the author,
furthermore if he went to my website,he would see I had a book of self penned songs available for purchase,and he could listen to recordings of my singing and playing.
Now I dont need to play his club so I can speak my mind.http://www.dickmiles.com


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 11:12 AM

"pleasant sound (ing),lyrics of no importance."

I've come across more than a few "folk" songs (traditional and self-penned)that would fit this description perfectly, so you see, it works both ways.

Charlotte (chassing dust-bunnies underneath the piano)


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 11:29 AM

No love songs allowed in folk music - I hadn't realised


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 12:00 PM

I never realised Buddy had moved to Greenwich Village before he died. Can you imagine if he'd stayed there for a few years and wandered into the Cafe Wha or similar when this little bloke called Bob was performing for pennies/free food? My God.

And yes - WHY isn't there a good compilation containing the apartment tapes? I remember the UK vinyl collection with them on, but I was errr..."financially embarrassed" at the time.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: NormanD
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 12:27 PM

Well, my good Captain, I would love to hear your version of BH's "Crying, Waiting, Hoping" - the song of his that came to mind as I was listening to the music samples on your site. Go on, try it! Next time in the shower, maybe.

Norman


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 02:41 PM

I'll be attending my 50th high school reunion this fall. Buddy Holly was a hot item on our cafeteria jukebox and a favorite of mine at the time, along with the Dell Vikings and Platters, among others. Looking back on it, I can picture him singing folk songs or striking out in a jazz direction. As an aside, if he and the "Crickets" could sound that good out of a garage recording studio in Clovis, New Mexico, imagine what he could have done in a first-class facility.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: NormanD
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 02:49 PM

There is a story that BH was keen to record with Ray Charles. He went to his house but he wasn't at home. Now that would have been some collaboration had it ever happened!

norman


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: bradfordian
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 07:08 AM

OK, now we are comming up to the landmark 50th anniversary (3rd Feb 2009)and a chance to add further thoughts. No doubt there is gonna be some media coverage and BBC Radio 2 have a prog on Sat night(31st Jan) 7pm called "Cryin', Waitin', Hopin'". In terms of his short career, his output was quite prolific, and I'm sure, enduring.
We have the shows, tours, films, & TV progs which have provided some insight to his life, and of course Don MacLean's American Pie had an impact on the publics awareness of the man and his music.
The music has endured for 50 years and surely that is significant!

Bradfordian


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,Paul Steele
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 07:38 AM

Sheppey Folk & Blues Club, Minster Working Men's Club, Union Road, Minster, Sheppey 2nd February 2009 - A Buddy Holly Evening.
Your chance to Buddy Holly songs you might not be able to do at other clubs! Admission £ 2.00. Compere for the evening Cllr Mike Brown who actually saw Buddy Holly in London.

Paul


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 09:29 AM

Wordy, last year some time:

He had just moved to Greenwich Village and was visiting the jazz clubs. No doubt he would have been there for the folk revival and would have become involved in some way or other.

Oh man...! I want to go to that universe. I want to go to that universe right now.

Seriously, I can't begin to imagine Buddy Goes Folk. It would have been worth hearing, though.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: NormanD
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 09:32 AM

I went to a music night at the East Dulwich Tavern (London) a few weeks back. The DJ was playing vinyl, including a 45 (on the Coral label) of "Real Wild Child" by Ivan - that is, Jerry Ivan Allison (the drummer of The Crickets) with Buddy on guitar. Wonderful song.

Also, Buddy produced and played on the first version of "Jolie Blonde" I ever heard, the one by Waylon Jennings, sung in Creole-French. It also has King Curtis on sax. Folk music? You bet it was!

Has a digital release turned up yet of the un-dubbed Apartment tapes?

And at least one Buddy Holly song contains lyrics of quite some social importance, that transcend the description of "love song":
'Drunk man/Street car/Foot slips/There you are....'


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: bankley
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 11:13 AM

'maybe baby'


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,Mr Yeahbut
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 11:26 AM

for any Holly fans who don't already know,

maybe of interest to google "purple chick Buddy Holly"

absolutely fantastic definitive[???] 'unofficial' 10 CD and DVD collection.

..and I paid a lot of money out of my student grant
for the vinyl 'complete' box-set back in the 80's


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,Mr Yeahbut
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 11:53 AM

for info and conjecture on proposed Buddy Holly and other vintage artists 'legit' releases..

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/bsnpubs?forum=6414


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,LANZAROTE BIOY
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 11:55 AM

Tuesday Feb 3rd from 8.30pm - Sun Inn , Beverley. Open mic night dedicated to Buddy Holly = pm wild boy for details

R


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: Darowyn
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 04:42 AM

There was a programme on BBC radio yesterday that played one of the Buddy Holly home tapes that had a very slow version of "Slipping and a Sliding", with some evidence that Buddy was playing around with the idea of doing a Chipmunks style speeded-up novelty version. He was already pushing his two tape machines to the limit. It would not have been long before somebody introduced him to Les Paul and his early multitracker.
It's another indication of how much was lost with his death.
Buddy Holly as an experimental musician and explorer of technology.
Sad
Cheers
dave


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 01:04 PM

Of course, Buddy - like Eddie Cochran - seemed to moving towards a less rock oriented style of music when he died. Elvis, of course, went that way too, in the late 50s.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: NormanD
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:29 PM

Yes, that last phase of his life seemed to be going into a musically different direction: strings and songs written by other writers (presumably chosen by his record company or producer). Very nice, mind you - such as "True Love Ways" and "Moon Dreams" - but a big shift from the r&B-rootsy rock and rockabilly. I think that his move to New York, and split with The Crickets, was to set himself up as a songwriter. The New York tapes were demos for others (The Everley Brothers later picked up at least one).

Anyone here ever get to see him?


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 05:36 PM

I was trying to recall all the famous folks who came from Lubbock, Texas. Buddy Holly, of course, and Waylong Jennings, I think, among others. But none of them stayed there. There must be something to the old Mac Davis song, "Happiness is Lubbock Texas in My Rear-View Mirror." I have several acquaintances who graduated from Texas Tech, but, again, none of them live there.


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Subject: RE: Buddy Holly - folk singer
From: NormanD
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 05:26 AM

There is also Joe Ely, Butch Hancock, Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Terry Allen - all from Lubbock.

Terry Allen once said something along the lines of a UFO having landed there in the early 1950s caused all this musical talent.


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